How Google Could Overthrow AIM 587
An anonymous reader writes "There's an interesting article over at Apple-X.net that speculates on the possibility of an instant-messaging service offered by Google that would be based on the open Jabber protocol. If Jabber was supported by a major company like Google, it could dominate over proprietary services such as AIM or MSN."
hahah. (Score:4, Insightful)
just made me laugh.
Finally (Score:3, Interesting)
ICQ (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, to think of the time when everybody who used any IM program used ICQ. Those were the days...
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Funny)
57007188888
How about yours?
16085588888
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Funny)
57007188888
How about yours?
16085588888
Funny, you don't look Jewish.
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:ICQ (Score:3, Interesting)
I did signup for a new one but never told anyone I knew about it, so essentially I didn't use ICQ anymore.
-N
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Funny)
Re:ICQ (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Insightful)
I was a fan of ICQ up until v2000. It had a lot more useful features, and a History mechanism that couldn't be beat. Then, they dropped the good logging mechanism and started adding a whole bunch of useless "search bar" type of garbage that just slowed the program up.
Luckily, that's when Trillian started to hit the scene. The funny thing is, I have Trillian Pro, and it's loaded up with plugins like an RSS reader and all kinds of search crap... but it's less intrusive and more integrated, and I find it to be a benefit.
Hopefully now, if Google IM takes off, Trillian will start supporting Jabber natively (instead of via a plugin).
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Funny)
It's okay you don't need to post anonymously, I really won't look down my nose at you and your high
Re:ICQ (Score:4, Funny)
It's okay you don't need to post anonymously, I really won't look down my nose at you and your high /. UID. I promise. Honestly. >-)
And your point is, #1751...??? :-)
... now I'm waiting for unitrode to post and put *me* in my place... :-)
Re:ICQ (Score:5, Funny)
Kids these days...
Re:ICQ (Score:4, Insightful)
Your comment on not remembering ICQ is quite strange. EVERY time I bring up ICQ everyone remembers there number. I know mine is 26262929 (lucked out on that one). It's a simple string of numbers that most people can remember.
By the time ICQ had server side lists, and supported firewalls as mentioned above. MSN and AIM kicked in.
I know in norhtern ontario the thing to use is MSN. Everyone and there dog has a MSN account and uses it to chat. I know noone that I physicaly meet who use AIM or ICQ or even yahoo in that matter.
Most of the convienece is hotmail. Most people and there dog have a hotmail account. Why not simply sign in with MSN and boom your hotmail is all nice and simple with a messaging app.
Don't want to have a hotmail account. Click Here [passport.com] and simply add your e-mail address (They just simply mail you a URL to click). Then sign onto MSN with your new mail address.
Yahoo I find isn't a very nice network to talk with. It's too bloated on the windows end and looks to be a haven for "picking up". If you want a laugh go on one of the romance channels and say your 19/F/Wherever and you get literally enough msg's for yahoo to boot you off. AIM is
Too bad for ICQ but people moved on
Don't think so (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't think so (Score:5, Interesting)
on the other hand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't think so (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not the same thing at all. E-mail is all interoperable. Different mail services are like different IM clients, not like different IM networks. Being one of the few users of an email provider has a certain appeal to most people. However, with an IM service, it's useless unless other people are using it too.
Re:Don't think so (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, dropping Hotmail just involves telling everyone your new email address. Not necessarily a trivial task, but they can still talk to you.
If people are to change to another IM protocol, it will very possibly have to be able to talk to AIM at least to start. Otherwise it'll be difficult to get the critical mass of people to transfer.
In short:
Change of email is a personal decision; you don't need to force others to change with you.
Change of IM is the opposite; for the most part, for other people to talk to you, they need to change too.
Re:Don't think so (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Don't think so (Score:3, Insightful)
Wha? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm just guessing, but Google would probably offer the ability to connect to the other four major services through their client, ala Kopete|Gaim|Trillian. I think the Jabber protocol supports this. And if they use Qt, they could simultaneously release Linux, win32 and OSX clients. (I know they could use Gtk, but why torture us?)
Re:Wha? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wha? (Score:3, Interesting)
I suppose a good number of people will run both clients in parallel for a while. Then, if more and more people choose Google IM and don't bother to fire up the other client anymore, others will see a shrinking list of on-line contacts on the old client and drop it as well.
It depends of course on how well Google's client will measure up:
- It better
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Funny)
IM's (Score:5, Interesting)
ICQ can do offline messaging, which MSN can't without an annoying add-in installed.
ICQ can do SMS, so can MSN now, but with another add-in... this is all previously achieved technology.
I welcome the concept of Google making an Instant Messenger, please do! They'd probably do a better job at it without almost nightly downtimes of their servers.
Re:IM's (Score:5, Insightful)
yes, but ICQ had a *HORIBLE INTERFACE* (Score:5, Interesting)
IT was the ICQ spam (Score:3, Interesting)
END COMMUNICATION
Re:IM's (Score:5, Insightful)
I used ICQ for years but it always seemed clunky, and had a million features that were useless. ALso MSN was the first with a webcam feature that just worked behind firewalls, and little things like games that people liked to play.
ICQ lost because they were perpetually in beta and even with years head start never managed to make a good client.
Re:IM's (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in the Netherlands there was a move to MSN. It is so bad around here the acronym "IM" isn't even used. People just refer to it as MSNing instead of IMing. I think ICQ still hase a very VERY small market share, along with Yahoo messenger. I think dutch people would rather be found dead then found with AIM installed, though.
Don't know why. I use MSN too, I like it's interface. Nice and clean with a little work, compared to either ICQ or Yahoo. Don't know about AIM, but I know 0 people who use AIM so I honestly couldn't care less. Granted, I mainly use MSN because most people I know use it and because it's available by default on every WinXP PC, not for the interface.
Re:IM's (Score:4, Interesting)
When I was in highschool, everybody who was anybody was on ICQ, then I went to university and everybody had a brand new Dell/Gateway/whatever POS computer with XP preloaded that forced MSN on them, so everybody I knew in university had MSN. I just use Gaim now so that I can talk to all my AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Jabber buddies with one program.
I think a google-branded Jabber client would be a great idea; Jabber would allow them to really innovate quickly and it would be a big push for a good technology.
Re:IM's (Score:3, Interesting)
MSN IM came along with a clean and standard UI, provided a convenient context history for conversations, conversations with multiple participants, and centralised the contact list storage on Microsoft's servers. With ICQ you had to find all your contacts again whenever you
Go Google. (Score:5, Informative)
Heh - same as always
I'd love to see Google get in with Jabber. Joogle? I use Jabber. But everyone I try to get on there simply says: But all my friends are on MSN. Some people have never ever heard of Yahoo, AIM, or the old classic, ICQ. Go Google, I say. Oh, and don't be evil. Although I'll be using SSL and GPG over Jabber, as usual.
Re:Go Google. (Score:5, Funny)
"I pity the fool who doesn't use Gibba Jabber!"
- bbk
IMoogle (Score:3, Funny)
It just sounds so funny.
Last thing we need are more applications that have a generic name preceded by x,g, or k (or i)
Can't you just imagine the discussions about rolling out "Enterprise IMoogle"
Wishful thinking (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wishful thinking (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wishful thinking (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, it's not news, but since when is slashdot about news?
They forget (Score:3, Interesting)
Jabber's been around, along with MSN, and Yahoo, still most people I know (personal and online life) use AIM.
You forget that this major ISP that is the largest on the planet, kinda, includes AIM in it's program
Advertising? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Advertising? (Score:4, Insightful)
Information, dear boy, information. If they know what everyone it talking about, saying what they wished they had, etc, they can target ads more effectively at the rest of us.
Sort of reminds me of that saying (which I can't properly remember now): Beware of he who would control access to information, for in his heart, he wants to be your master.
How does this fit the Google company quest? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How does this fit the Google company quest? (Score:5, Insightful)
With gmail, we can search all old emails with the same simple interface as searching the web. Now, add IM transcripts (great for business), PIM information, etc. Maybe someday, they'll aggregate even more personal stuff, like bank statements, my car's service history, and so on.
The end result? With the beautifully simple default google interface, I could ask:
Think of any piece of information you recently looked up or asked for, on computer or hardcopy. Imagine typing it into google and getting the answer.
It could be really cool, and kinda creepy. MS and Yahoo are at a disadvantage to pull this off because: they're behind the curve on search engine technology (look at MS's recently yanked beta), they'll never take the leap of faith to give users an incredibly stripped, ad-free interface (I know yahoo offers one, but they deemphasize it), and not nearly as many people will trust them with this stuff as would trust google.
IM makes a nice next step.
Re:How does this fit the Google company quest? (Score:3, Informative)
Except, of course, you don't neet a hotmail (or msn.com) address to use MSN messenger. It's not obvious, but you can sign up with pretty much any address.
joogle.com taken (Score:3, Informative)
So, I'm OOgling the 1,430 entries for *oogle.* [whois.sc], just in case there's one somebody else missed...
sounds like... (Score:5, Funny)
one engine to find them,
One engine to return them all
and to the results bind them.
What would it mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know if the story is anything to do with Jabber. I mean look at it this way; What would it mean if Google started its own IM service period?
Yahoo did it and what did that mean? AIM/AOL are still here. But the thought is interesting enough as it is.
As for an open protocol... I don't know if it would mean a whole hell of a lot. I like the IM but I also like the ability to use VoIP or Video if I want.
Whatever Google comes up with I can only speculate that the quality of the clientele would be a lot highr than either AOL or MSN. I'm using Y! now, but more as it's the only one I have after ruling the other two out that has any number of people to be able to chat with.
IM has never been about software or protocals, (Score:5, Insightful)
It also seems a bit silly for Google to be interested in IM. Google's services always revolve around searching (even gmail), something that isn't very useful for IM. They could perhaps make finding buddies or finding past conversations easier, but other than that, I fail to see where google could work their magic.
Public IM discussions indexed and searchable (Score:4, Interesting)
Google can leverage its search technology by logging "public" IM conversations and making them indexable. Users can pick if they want their chat room/IM conversation public and have everything indexed.
You could do an interview with someone, and have it captured and indexed. Or the IETF could hold a committe meetting in a public chat room, knowing that there is an instant public archive.
Someone searching might find a snippet of a conversation. From there, Google could provide the full thread by moving backwards or forwards from the snippet that was a hit.
Of course, most conversations would be private, but some might choose to have public discussions.
As long as it's not evil.
Why Google and why Instant Messaging? (Score:5, Insightful)
If so, there is nothing particularly interesting about this. Sure, any piece of software that gets a direct link from the Google front page is going to have a massive advantage over its competitors, and yes, were that to happen, it would be nice if that software happened to use an open protocol with lots of open source clients.
The fact that he chose instant messaging as the application, and Google as the big powerful company with all the eyeballs is somewhat irrelevant, the same would be true of almost any application and almost any company with a massively popular website.
Of course, if the big powerful company just happens to be Google, the darling of Slashdot editors, then it certainly won't hurt his advertising click-through revenue :-)
Re:Why Google and why Instant Messaging? (Score:3, Funny)
Searchable IMs? (Score:5, Interesting)
This won't happen any time soon (Score:5, Insightful)
They are too busy with their current projects. Gmail has been in beta for almost half a year and it still isn't final. And still as a beta project, they made yahoo and msn catch up to provide more space.
I wonder how google IM would shape up aim, yahoo, msn and icq.
As long as they don't call it "Goober" (Score:4, Funny)
Note about MSN- Contrary to you folk apparently, all MY friends have moved to AIM. Perhaps there are pockets of users that use one or the other.
Note about offline messages- I have also bemoaned this ICQ feature lacking in MSN/AIM. But really, that sort of functionality is what email is for.
Jabber great because of encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason Jabber is so great is because of its encryption support. I can load up gabber and use SSL (and end-to-end GPG encryption within *that*).
If Google gives me end-to-end encryption, Google will win me and everyone I can convince over. Everything else is irrelevant. The current state of IM security is abysmal.
That means that there will be a single party that can monitor who communicates with who (not ideal, but not that far from the existing cell phone situation), but not the *content*.
Miranda (Score:3, Informative)
GAIM (Score:3, Informative)
GAIM [sourceforge.net] is another open souce muliplatform and multi IM protocol client.
I use it in Linux and Win, for messaging in MSN, ICQ and Jabber :-)
Use them all! (Score:3, Informative)
God, i hope so (Score:3, Interesting)
The protocol is also well designed, as far as i've looked into it. I'm forced to use MSN, and i've already stumbled into the "can't block annoying kids" problem. ICQ is nice, but seems to be dying, and AOL i can't stand.
Have we found the missing step 2? (Score:5, Funny)
2. Attach Google's name to it.
3. Profit!!!
Here are a few:
If Google made a MMORPG it would rule the earth!
If Google made a Linux distribution with Spotlight-like search, it would rule the earth!
If Google let me host all my MP3's it would rule the earth!
Seriously though, it might be interesting to have all of my IM history searchable, but I mostly use it for one-off conversations about things of limited importance.
Besides, as general benevolent as Google seems to be, do we really want to route sensitive messages through a central place? Especially with the recent Slashdot articles about VOIP being required to support wire taps. [slashdot.org] Do we want adwords showing up keyed off of our IM conversations? How could we secure such a system?
Posters without vision.. (Score:5, Insightful)
What little vision!
First and foremost, searching archives of IM's sucks on almost every windows client there is. GAIM, Miranda, Trillian, AIM, MSN-IM, etc etc. Thats a niche waiting for them - they are the kings of search.
Second, for Google to be universal, they need contact management soon. They need to know WHO someone is. Orkut is a step there. Gmail's contact manager *sucks*.
Combine the two, AND an instant messenger that interoperates between all the networks ALA GAIM, and you suddenly have a complete profile, 6+ potential screennames, possibly a website, their gmail address, and voila - you have a strong awareness of who the user is.
NOW use THAT to improve search results - google for pages that Linus Torvalds wrote. Now google knows what his IM names are, what his webpage is, what his gmail address is, and can specify ALL of those pages containing those items as "better hits" than just any webpage. It can even do it transparently (hidden) for better security.
Taking it a step further, you now have the makings of a web-based contact management system - email, IM, blogs, profiles, images, all from their various packages.
Sounds visionary to me!
Re:Posters without vision.. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's already more than enough that I can find all the shit I wrote on usenet ten years ago when I was young and foolish on Google groups as well as my old, for me long inaccessible homepages from 94/95 on Google. If Microsoft tried this, everyone would be up in
forget jabber.. (Score:3, Funny)
google can succeed in IM just as with search (Score:3, Informative)
over the long term, this can be the same formula for success in IM. there is inertia and critical mass to overcom re: existing IM services, but the jabber technology, being free/open, and striving for interoperability with other protocols for its own sake instead of some strategic market share move, has a lot to offer.
i recently turned on a co-worker's windows pc, and practically got dizzy when the advertisement-laden AOL signon thing came up.
Hello? Google already owns an IM client. (Score:4, Informative)
I hope everyone who just said Google doesn't care about IM kicks themself in the head. You dumbasses.
Hello is pretty, & it works with Blogger & Picasa. It is good Windows software, which is all that Google seems to be interested in for the desktop.
Apple is supporting Jabber (Score:3, Informative)
Some problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
If people were freaking out about context-sensitive text ads in their email, just imagine the reaction to the plan to "scan" IM messages for advertising.
They need to make it available over SSL! (443) (Score:3, Insightful)
Dear Google: (Score:3, Informative)
Thanks, Geeks everywhere
The article's suggested name for the service (Score:3, Funny)
I could understand GIM and a whole host of other possible names for such a service, but Joogle--"Jewish Google (or Googling for Jews)" just seems like one of those things that wouldn't pass the marketroid litmus test.
I'd suggest Messoogle but then people might sign up thinking they'd be able to strike a conversation up with the Messiah.
Open standards and instant messaging (Score:5, Insightful)
There's something to be said for changing the protocol and client at your whim to add fun and interesting modes of communication.
Not a good Idea (Score:5, Funny)
Chat Session Google Ads
A> Hello. Buy greeting cards!
B> How much of Have us do your
your homework homework for $5!!!
Have you done?
...
Multiple Services in a Nice Little Package (Score:4, Insightful)
The answer to this situation, IMHO, is for Google to release an IM program which has seamless integration with other IM services. This is offered in many third party IM applications, but a big Google brand on an application which could juggle multiple IM systems might just be enough to get people to use Google's application--which, of course, would require you to sign up for GoogleIM at download.
It would be a slow process of conversion, but if Google starts out with seamless integration, I think they have a chance of converting a significant number of users within a year.
Google already has an instant messenger (Score:4, Informative)
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
If it works in GMail, expect to see GIM.
Re:why? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why? (Score:4, Funny)
It's worse than that, it's spam, GIM.
KFG
Re:why? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:why? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:why? (Score:4, Funny)
"I NEED something that displays my crushing sadness while moping to some dashboard
B-(
Ah, that's it."
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
For one, you can write your own client to work with the service(s). Secondly, the service(s) are not dependant on a specific client so the IM network as a whole is substantially more secure.
I love jabber. Checkout Coccinella [fyristorg.com].
There are multitudes of other clients available, widely, for just about any platform you can think of.
Just like other open source projects, open source IM protocol(s) bring 'choice' back into the users hands. Sure, you can download Trillian or whatever and get on multiple IM services - but it's messy and the proprietary protocols (particularly Yahoo) are constantly being changed to prevent other messenger apps from working on their networks.
Just love it. Man, hope Google does do this. *Laughs* Like I needed another reason to love Google.
Re:why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Another post talked about the "good old days" before IM fragmentation when everyone just used ICQ. In my view, the golden opportunity for everyone else to get market share was when Mirabilis failed to update ICQ so that it would work through corporate firewalls. Before long, all the kids who were crazy about IM in college graduated, found out they couldn't run ICQ through their company's corporate firewall, and moved en mass to other networks like Yahoo that had workarounds. By the time ICQ caught up, it was too late, people had already switched.
If Google is going to get their IM network to take off, it's going to take something about existing IM networks that can similarly simultaneously annoy you and all your friends into switching. I'm not sure what it's going to be, but it'll probably have to be something stronger than the lure of having everyone code their own client.
Re:why? (Score:5, Interesting)
I do. Or more correctly, the company I work for runs the IM client that I wrote. Why? Because we wanted to add web accessibility to our IM system, and it was nearly trivial to throw that onto our Zope server. What's the going rate for integrating MSN or Yahoo! onto a pre-existing Unix web server these days?
Yeah, I realize that this is a very atypical situation, but just because you don't know someone who's written their own client doesn't mean that noone has. There are a lot of niches where Jabber scales down brilliantly, but where the old, closed systems don't seem to scale down at all.
Re:why? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you'll find this is true of quite a lot of people. The benefit of an open protocol for most people isn't that they can write their own client, it's that they will have numerous clients to chose from and they can take their pick. With a closed system like AIM or Yahoo, you still have the unofficial clients, but you have to worry about the networks purposely breaking them every once in a while.
I mean, face it, the official AIM client is a complete and utter piece of shit (only surpassed in crappyness by the official ICQ client, which is why ICQ lost my business). I can't comment on the Yahoo client, as I've never used it, but let's just say I don't expect much. If you're still running an official client, I feel sorry for you. Unless you like adds.
The reason people will switch is because they're already running Gaim or Trillian and adding another network is just as simple as adding some contact info into a configuration dialog. Eventually people will run out reasons to use the closed networks.
Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:why? (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you,
Management
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Two important things to IM
-Ease of use
When I say ease of use, it's relatively easy to IM someone else you know, (ie - SN). Joe Sixpack doesn't want an ICQ id #, he wants a funny name like joesixpack900000 to talk to people with, maybe send pictures, and he doesn't want to write his own client or deal with inane settings....AIM and MSN cover this pretty well
-User base
More users = more popular...You're not going to use something no one else uses, open source or not
Open == more devices (Score:3, Informative)
Even when MS writes portable applications, they limit the devices where they can be used. For an example of where this occurs, look at their WinCE family devices. To get a license for, say, PocketWord, you must have PocketPC. To get a license for PocketPC you must have a form factor that looks pretty much like an ipaq (ie screen of a certain size, exact set up of keys etc). Microsoft controls everything through their
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only possible issue is that the logs and message transmissions would have to go through Google's servers. Personally, I don't mind that. At least I'd know that ALL settings and history are saved between machines instead of the classic issue of SOMETHING being lost when I jump from machine to machine. Not to mention that it would be the ultimate in cross-platform compatibility.
Re:why? (Score:4, Informative)
Ok. I'll help you:
- I don't want a damn browser running all the time just to have access to IM!
- I don't want to have to be online just to review a chat log!
- Either "A," "B," or "C" below:
--A. On MSIE/Win, every time MSIE crashes, I'd prefer it not take down my IM client too. And vice versa.
--B. On non-msie/Win, I'd like to have a notification icon in the "tray."
--C. On my Mac, I'd prefer the IM client have its own Dock icon rather than being yet another browser window. I'd also like a menu-bar extra (similar to MS "tray" icons).
- I'd like sound notifications, and little temporary pop-up notifications. And not little browser popups. How are you going to handle notifications? Just to get sound, you'd need to be running a damn plugin or FLASH just to provide a sound notification! Holy bloat, batman!
- Maybe I'd like to run a script locally when a certain contact signs on. How could you securely implement a browser-based IM client that could do that?
- The same reason I hate the webmail-as-the-only-interface-to-email trend--I don't want to have to load a bunch of redundant and inefficient HTML and ads for every single message I open, every time I look back at the inbox. But change "message I open" to "message I send or receive."
- Maybe I'd like audio and video chat. No, WITHOUT a bunch of unreliable and highly unstable browser "plugins" or ActiveX controls.
- One refresh of the buddy-list window goes bad and you're looking at an error message in your buddy-list window instead of an IM client. A real client can continue trying to reconnect.
- Unlike e-mail, IM requires lots of dynamic-ness. So you can guarantee yourself that if ANYONE implements a web-based, feature-rich IM client, it'll be highly proprietary. Read "highly-IE-only."
- And if you're going to use Java to do achieve some of those aims without stooping to stupid ActiveX, IE lock-in, etc? Why not just offer it as a normal executable too then?
> Personally, I don't mind that. At least I'd know that ALL settings and history are saved between machines instead of the classic issue
Whoa there, two very different ideas here:
Storing contacts and settings on the server (like Jabber does): Good. I'm all for it.
Making the interface server-side and translating it to HTML, and making that the only interface to the service: Very, very bad.
You don't need to do the latter to accomplish the former.
Re:Subscribers and Dating (Score:5, Funny)
Say, wasn't this on Seinfeld?
BTM
Re:Subscribers and Dating (Score:5, Funny)
Please, we both know if a your main concern about meeting a significant other is which IM service they use, that both of you are using AOL.
Re:Joogle? (Score:3, Funny)
I prefer it be called Jaimsnahoogle.
Re:Jabber Quality (Score:4, Informative)
Gaim doesn't support all the features of Jabber, if you're a windows user Exodus is really one of the best clients (MHO).
Re:I think the article misses an important point. (Score:3, Informative)
The really savvy people use Gaim