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Technology Science

World's First Practical Plastic Magnet 183

Posted by timothy from the demagnetize-your-own-credit-card dept.
Stopmotioncleaverman writes "New Scientist is reporting that scientists at the University of Durham in the UK have created the world's first plastic magnet to work at room temperature from two compounds, emeraldine base polyaniline (PANi) and tetracyanoquinodimethane (TCNQ). In 2001, scientists in Nebraska created a plastic magnet, but it only worked at 10 Kelvin. Most notably from the article - "One of the most likely applications is in the magnetic coating of computer hard discs, which could lead to a new generation of high-capacity discs". This story is also being reported in lots of other places."
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World's First Practical Plastic Magnet More

World's First Practical Plastic Magnet

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  • I have this image.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by hexMonkey ( 809664 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:15AM (#10126230)
    of Michael Jackson stuck to a lamppost

  • Plastic Fantastic (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:16AM (#10126232)
    So this is going to confuse poor operators of MRI machines then. Now they can't even take plastic stuff in. They'll have to go in naked.

    Mmmmm Naked Nurses :)

  • Coming soon: Refrigerator Magnet Barbie (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:16AM (#10126233)
    Whoohoo! In 2007, you'll be able to attach Barbie to the fridge.

  • Re: (Score:1, Redundant)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • This takes time (Score:5, Informative)

    by bert.cl ( 787057 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:22AM (#10126247)
    After a quick read, I can only see that the polymer needs a lot of time to get magnetic properties, as opposed to metal. This might come in handy with hard disks, however, another usage I had in mind (Lego bricks and other children's toys) falls of the boat. Since I think this will be a little to expensive.

    I might be wrong though, I'm not a rocket scientist (or polymer scientist if you want)

    • Re:This takes time (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Spad ( 470073 ) <slashdot.spad@co@uk> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:38AM (#10126282) Homepage
      This is only their first prototype. The fact that it took some time for the magnetic properties to exhibit themselves may be a property of the polymer or it could simply be a result of what amounts to guesswork in producing the stuff in the first place.

      Now that they know they can get magnetic properties from the polymer they can work on refining it - making it stronger, more uniform and possibly "faster".

      Also, there's no real detail about the methods behind the creation of the magnets - for all you know it might cost them 50p to make each magnet, which would make mass-produced children's toys perfectly possible.
      • which would make mass-produced children's toys perfectly possible.
        Yup. Flying cars, 1TB hard-drives, sexy personal digital female assistants (you know, of the human-like kind)... all stuff a grown-up child would like to have as a toy :D
    • another usage I had in mind (Lego bricks and other children's toys) falls of the boat
      I don't know... Imagine if they were on the market already, you could buy a set now and they'd be ready to go at Christmas!
    • I'm not a rocket scientist (or polymer scientist if you want)
      Good thing too -- you just missed the rocket science article!
    • "we were about to give up and try a different approach, we decided to check the samples for a last time," says Sean Giblin.
      It was a fortunate decision, because over the months the original polymer had developed magnetic properties"
      Correct me if Im wrong but does this mean they are only temporary magnets. To be the worlds first plastic magnet shouldn't it be permanent?

    • Re:This takes time (Score:4, Interesting)

      by RWerp ( 798951 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @05:04AM (#10126460)
      I found the original article overhyped. It's just a "one sample effect". They need to present a method of producing (even highly inefficiently) ferromagnetic polymers, which works at least most of the time. Right now, they are probably guessing "but how did we do it???".

      People were delivering similar reports on "discovery of room temperature superconductivity" in the past. The trouble is, they could not repeat their achievements. They were also from Croatia, which didn't give them that much publicity.

      • Re:This takes time (Score:3, Informative)

        by Josh Booth ( 588074 ) *
        "...because over the months the original polymer had developed magnetic properties. Further batches of the polymer confirmed its magnetism and ruled out the possibility that the magnetism had been caused by contamination. In addition, X-ray diffraction data showed an increase in the alignment of the polymer chains over three months, which probably accounts for the increase in magnetism."

        They obviously know how to make it, they just aren't very good at it yet since it is inconsistant throughout the material

  • Dentures (Score:2, Funny)

    by pjt33 ( 739471 )
    Does this mean people with ferromagnetic dentures will have to stop eating McDonalds cheeseburgers?

  • Potential for high-end audio applications? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by j3ll0 ( 777603 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:27AM (#10126251)

    I'm sure the audiophiles will correct me, but is it possible that this could be used to produce seriously high quality audio gear: specifically speakers?

    My understanding of speaker technology is that at it's most basic, a cone is held attached in some way to a magnet, which is moved by modulating the intensity of an opposing magnetic field. The movement of the cone produces sound.

    If you could build the magnet into the cone, ie make the cone out of magnetic plastic, that would have to eliminate a source of distortion from the reproduction, which would lead to better quality sound.

    I see this as a more realistic first application than building platters out of plastic.

    What do the audiophiles have to say?

    • Re:Potential for high-end audio applications? (Score:5, Informative)

      by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:34AM (#10126271) Homepage
      IANAAP, but I believe electrostatic speakers covers that aspect pretty well already. There, the entire surface of the membrane is moving in concert as well.

    • Re:Potential for high-end audio applications? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Vellmont ( 569020 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:35AM (#10126274) Homepage

      What do the audiophiles have to say?
      The "audiophiles" will say whatever you want them to say given the right price, and hype. Make it expensive and hype it up like "monster cables" and it'll be audio gold. Make it cheap and common and everyone will want "old fashioned magnets".

    • Re:Potential for high-end audio applications? (Score:5, Informative)

      by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:38AM (#10126283) Homepage
      I don't really see how this plastic could ever really help make a better speaker, but knowing how many useless superstitious expensive bullshit many audiophiles will buy (i.e. cable that costs $300 per meter), I'm sure if you made such a product you'd have no trouble selling it.
    • the fact that they say the magnets will be able to much more easily be made to a certain strength and shape etc. may mean that aint such a bad thought

    • Re:Potential for high-end audio applications? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lisandro ( 799651 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:50AM (#10126309)
      What makes a speaker good is it's mainly the cone itself: it has to be very rigid but also very thin; if it's too heavy the amplifier needs to be more powerful (which reduces it's efficiency), and if it's too elastic it will vibrate and bend when moved back and forth, creating a nasty distortion. Not only that, the cone material has to be sonically "dead" (won't resonate at audible frequencies).
      Paper is the preffered choice; there's also kevlar laminate for some high end speakers. Some high frequency speakers ("tweeters") are made of aluminium.

      In fact, one of the latest "advancements" in speaker construction was not long ago when a japanese fella discovered how to shape thin wood sheets into cones... after soaking them with sake - apparently it's good for more than drinking, and makes one hell of a cone material. Not cheap though.

      I build my audio gear, and you wouldn't beleive the ammount of variables that goes into speaker designing (number of speakers, enclosure volume and shape, variable impedances, type and implementation of crossover network, etc). I think this technology could improve the magnets used in speakers if nothing else, making them cheaper, or stronger, but plastic cones (unless VERY rigid), it's not a good idea overall.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:33AM (#10126398)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Years back I read an article about a flame loudspeaker. The flame is pretty well ionized to begin with, so add an electrode at the bottom and top to inject the audio voltage. The envelope of the flame is modulated and it produces sound. Now that I think of it, the raw ionization of the flame was a bit weak, so they seeded some sodium (I forget if it was sodium glass or a wick into salt water.) into the bottom and got much better volume out.

        About as close to zero mass as you can get. By no means stiff at al
    • My understanding of speaker technology is that at it's most basic, a cone is held attached in some way to a magnet, which is moved by modulating the intensity of an opposing magnetic field. The movement of the cone produces sound.

      You suppose you could create some sort of sound that way, given enough power, but generally you let the magnet remain stationary and attach the much lighter copper windings that produce the oscillating field to the cone.

      If the new material is insanely much more
      magnetic than curr
    • You can allready get flat pannel speakers, which importantly don't weigh very much for those of us poor b******s who find our selves moving them. I think (and i stand to be correct here i feel) that they work on some kind of pizzo electric thing.

  • Cool! (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheDigitalOne ( 105087 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:27AM (#10126255)
    Does this mean that I can now stick my floppy discs to the refrigerator without wiping out the data?

    Heh :)

  • Ohdear... (Score:5, Funny)

    by tigress ( 48157 ) <rot13.fcnzgenc03@8in.net> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:33AM (#10126267)
    This is going to have some serious implications on the world's superhero balance of power.
    • Yeah. Look out for Magneto. They're going to have to find a new material for his jail cell. And he won't even need a scary shape-shifter girl to inject a guard with 10 cc of liquid iron the night before to break out this time...

      p

  • What people think (Score:3, Funny)

    by shfted! ( 600189 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:35AM (#10126275) Journal
    ... and people say my inflatable girlfriend doesn't have a magnetic personality! Fah!

  • Could this lead (Score:5, Interesting)

    by I7D ( 682601 ) <ian@shook.gmail@com> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:43AM (#10126295) Homepage
    Could this lead to lighter electric motors? Which might make the future of printing products in a personal 3D printer more functional.
    • At this point, the field strength of these magnets does not even come close to the current magnetic/ceramic magents we have, so its uses would be extremely limited.

      In the article, they say that they were ready to throw the batch away, but they had aquired magnetic properties over 3 months in storage.

      Whilst we must obviously wait and see, it doesnt look likely at this point.

  • Electromagnetism with plastic magnets ! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phreakv6 ( 760152 ) <phreakv6@gmai l . com> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:45AM (#10126297) Homepage
    Will this be possible with plastic magnets ?... If it will be then we could have better
    electric motors and generators isnt it ?

  • One of the most likely applications is in the magnetic coating of computer hard discs, which could lead to a new generation of high-capacity discs The way my disk gets hammered the bloody thing would melt in a minute :o)

  • Furniture (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Xerxes2695 ( 706503 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @03:56AM (#10126318)
    This is great. Imagine a house full of items made from this material. Cups, pens, paper pads, tools etc. Just stick them to a table, wall, or door, and they stay put.
    • Hey! you could have found the killer application for these new magnets.

      Make boat/aircraft/travel cups out of them!

      Now if your boat is attacked by a shark, your drink will stay on the table!

      Thing is, I think this is a solution in search of a problem. Theres probably a greater magnetic field strength inside a fridge magnet than these things.

      Whilst making plastics magnetic is cool, I would be more interested in running plastic circuit boards and components, which if I remember rightly is whats required fo
    • That could be very nice in ISS, provided the magnets are not so strong that they disturb any equipment. I'll bet NASA is interested.

  • I remeber... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lisandro ( 799651 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:04AM (#10126334)
    I remember not so long ago a news about some researchers that managed to create a conductive plastic; it was a remarkably better conductor than cooper. They were working into making it cheaper for mass production (can't find a link, anyone?).

    If these people manage to create powerful magnets for cheap, expect a lot of magnet-based devices (motors, hard disks, generators) to drop prices in the future; powerful ceramic magnets are still very expensive.
    • some researchers that managed to create a conductive plastic; it was a remarkably better conductor than cooper.

      Oh dear. I sure am glad I wasn't cooper when they tried to figure out how conductive he is...

    • can't find a link, anyone?

      Maybe here [google.com]?

    • Re:I remeber... (Score:3, Informative)

      by the pickle ( 261584 )
      I remember not so long ago a news about some researchers that managed to create a conductive plastic; it was a remarkably better conductor than cooper.

      References, please.

      I worked in the field of conductive polymers for a year, and I'm fairly familiar with what the state of the art was in 2002-3, and let me assure you, nothing that's been developed at this point is remotely close to being as conductive as copper.

      There has been some minor success with organic (polymer) semiconductors, but you're not going

  • Electric properties? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Vo0k ( 760020 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:10AM (#10126352) Journal
    I wonder what is its conductivity?

    The problem with most magnets and electromagnets is that they are excellent conductors. In some applications this is desired, in many irrelevant, in some very undesired. A neat new way to mount easily replacable chips/cartridges, etc wherever spare metal parts may mean problems...

    And a nice property of many polymers is that it's quite common to make transparent derivatives. "glass magnet", interesting idea?
    • The problem with most magnets and electromagnets is that they are excellent conductors. In some applications this is desired, in many irrelevant, in some very undesired.

      From the article:
      The new polymer was developed by Naveed Zaidi and his colleagues in Durham's organic electroactive materials group. The team created the new polymer from two compounds, emeraldine base polyaniline (PANi) and tetracyanoquinodimethane (TCNQ). They chose PANi because it is a metal-like electrical conductor that is stable in

  • Replacing copper in hydrogen fuelcell engines (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:24AM (#10126377)
    Replacing the copper spools of the electro engine in hydrogen fuelcell engines with light polymers will give fuelcell cars a serious weight advantage over combustion engines with their metal explosive combustion chambers.

    For us Europeans at least, for US American cars the reduced weight would be, what a reduction of 1%, and most likely be meaningless. :-)
    --
    Dennis SCP
  • From the article: "And in addition to computer hard discs, the team thinks that plastic magnets could have important medical applications, (...). Organic magnetic materials are less likely to be rejected by the body." Who volunteers to become the first human memo board?

  • Conversion (Score:3, Informative)

    by EpsCylonB ( 307640 ) <eps.epscylonb@com> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:58AM (#10126444) Homepage
    For those like me that aren't inimately familliar with the kelvin scale of temperature measurement...

    10 Kelvin = -263.15 degrees Celsius

    According to Google [google.com].

  • Implants (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nekosej ( 302666 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @05:02AM (#10126452)
    Just imagine what this could do for the bra industry if you could make magnetic breast implants!

  • As a resident of Durham I should point out... (Score:5, Funny)

    by levell ( 538346 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @05:36AM (#10126511) Homepage

    This article might be a tad misleading, most days room temperature here is about 10 Kelvin if you leave a window open.

    (For people that don't understand the Kelvin temperature scale this is not true and is in fact a bad attempt at humour)

  • Great for Intel (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @06:03AM (#10126574) Homepage Journal
    They could claim that the heat from their processors enable newer hard drives to work.
  • Anyone else notice this? (in "elsewhere today", right between BBC and Yahoo News :)

    -phozz

  • tetracyanoquinodimethane: Now that sound nice and healthy...

  • where is it? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Guano_Jim ( 157555 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @07:02AM (#10126810)
    I want my plastic railgun, dammit! Where is it?

  • I had beginning undergraduate chemistry from Joel Miller [utah.edu] at the University of Utah. He's working on plastic magnets as well, but he doesn't have them working at room temperature yet AFAIK. He was quite possibly the worst teacher I've ever had, though he's apparently a fabulous chemist. When talking about the noble gasses, he would always pronounce it 'Nobel', and he even corrected his spelling on the chalkboard from 'noble' to 'nobel'. Our TA's said that he has his eyes on the prize.

  • With the advent of plastic magnets, I feel strongly that this will ruin the hilarity new versions of the Wiley Coyote cartoons, for example. I grew up watching that infamous episode where Wiley buys an ACME nuclear (or similarly powered) magnet that he puts out in the desert. It was huge -- 2 stories tall, assuming Wiley was as tall as a person.

    He fed that annoying RoadRunner BBs and birdseed and turned on the magnet.

    It pulled in things like satellites, cars, boats, etc.

    Now, with this new invention --
  • I'm sorry for not having RTFA, but I was wondering if someone could clarify whether or not these plastic magnets attract plastic like a regular magnet would metal, or only other magnetic objects.

  • How about plastic magnets driving a featherweight earbud? Not only lightweight and cheap, but flexible in design and physical practice. So it's comfortable, and the magnetic field can be contoured to precisely drive air pressure against your eardrum, without blocking the canal and excluding external noise. We might never remove these bionic ears.

  • Magnetic tyres (Score:2, Interesting)

    by RWerp ( 798951 )
    They could be used in magnetic tyres (the kind that has sensors deducing the way a tyre deflects during breaking by the change in the magnetic field generated by magnetic powder interspersed in the tyre's rubber). Instead of mixing magnetic material with rubber, one could mix these polymers with rubber. Maybe it would work better, I don't know.

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