A Killer App For Segway 277
cameronk writes "The NYT reports that Segway is developing a growing popularity with people who are mobility-impaired. My 94 year-old grandfather is too proud to use a wheelchair, yet too fragile to walk. The Segway seems like an ideal way for him to maneuver about."
Sidewalk as battleground (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:4, Insightful)
And it would be political death to suggest that handicapped people couldn't have four wheel wheelchairs, no matter how fast, cool or fun they look.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:2)
http://www.gadgetopia.com/2004/10/12/SegwayCentaur .html [gadgetopia.com]
I want one already.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems that thing has an unwieldy failure mode IMHO.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:2)
Wonder how it compares with motorised wheelchairs and cars. Which, if nothing else, tend to take up more space.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:2)
By this logic, any disabled person with a specially adapted car would be legally entitled to drive it through crowds of pedestrians. Maybe I give the US legal system too much credit, but I find it hard to believe they have drifted quite that far from sanity.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:3, Informative)
I have mitochondrial myopathy (see MDA [mdausa.org] and UMDF [umdf.org]) and started using a three-wheel electric scooter in January 2000 after a major setback from catching the flu. My equipment has a dial that you can set for maximum speed, so it is much easier to match the pace of pedestrian traffic than if you ride a bike. Does anyone know of you can
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:5, Funny)
Not for his 94 year-old grandfather. Then it would be a Segway doing 45 mph in the hammer lane with it's left turn signal on for miles.
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sidewalk as battleground (Score:2)
Sounds more like something for the "extreme sports" type of people. No doubt quite a few of this group end up being disabled at a fairly young age.
60+ MPH Segway (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, a 60+ MPH Segway could be very interesting if it had a suspension including tires with sidewall flex, and a somewhat wider track. The gyro/balance system is supposed to take care of the need for a wheelbase, and I expect it could be tuned to be quick and dynamic enough to handle higher speeds (if it isn't already). Add some automated lateral leaning control to the long
this is different from motorcycles how? (Score:2)
Re:this is different from motorcycles how? (Score:2)
LK
Segway: Unsafe at Any Speed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Segway: Unsafe at Any Speed (Score:5, Funny)
When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did, not terrified like his passengers did.
Re:Segway: Unsafe at Any Speed (Score:2, Insightful)
low-tech solution (Score:4, Funny)
Re:low-tech solution...but is it natural? (Score:2)
The Segway, on the
Not a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
On top of all that, the Segway requires that the operator be standing whilst in use. The endurance that this requires might not be a problem for the average individual but it becomes a factor for elderly users. Remember, we're talking about who already have mobility issues, so these are legitimate concerns.
Frankly, if it was my relative I'd encourage them to use a powered chair, the kind that are more like one-man golf-carts than the kind that look like wheelchairs. They'd be more comfortable and easier to operate in the long run, capable of carrying things more easily and probably more reliable too.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
who has slower reaction times than the norm is more likely to...
Keep in mind that the alternative is for them to get in a 2,000lb automobile and drive it instead. Given that, I think free Segways for everyone over 75 would be a good investment...
Re:Not a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
There are millions of people with impaired mobility who are not so impaired that they need to use a chair. Segway gives those persons a nice means of getting around.
Plus, there's the collision factor: an elderly person who isn't too steady and who has slower reaction times than the norm is more likely to hit an obstacle that suddenly appears in his path and/or fall off as a result of the resulting sudden stop.
Well, yeah. Any type of transportation should match the person's physical condition and the user should exercise judgment and care in it's use. Why is this specific to the Segway?
Segway appears to be a great way for mildly disabled persons to get around. It's sorta halfway between walking and a wheelchair. Highly maneuverable, with a greater range and lower cost than a wheelchair.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
Two words: Farmer's Market
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
PLUS there's the eyesight factor. I think it's a brilliant idea for old people with failing eyesight to zip around at 18 mph. Riiiight....
Interesting fact: [merck.com] the lens in the eye never stops growing. So the older you are, the thicker and more opaque your lenses are. Plus your retinas are less sensitive. The result: a 60 year old's retina only picks
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
My grandpa, a few years later, died from complications from a broken hip (slipped on the snow).
I really don't think a Segway is the best answer for old people or even fat people for that matter. Ya, it's a cute little machine that looks like fun - but it takes a certain amount of balance to use and from the way people stand, it's about as forgiving as a bicycle when you fall off of it or the batteries get low.
Every time I see the Segway in use on campus, it makes me glad I'm one of the people that still thinks walking isn't half bad.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
My grandpa, a few years later, died from complications from a broken hip (slipped on the snow).
I really don't think a Segway is the best answer for old people...
On a daily basis my 93 year old grandmother weaves in and out of heavy traffic on PCH while flipping off SUV cell phoners going 30 in the left lane. She took up motorcycling a few years back after she was in the hospital for a month with a broken femur from falling off a Segway.
So buy 'em Harley, and let them go out in style. And with none of that suffer in fo months in a hospital crap.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
What about the speed of these things? Do you really want grandma scooting around at around 20mph among pedestrians? It sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
Do you really want grandma scooting around at around 20mph among pedestrians?
Chances are that "grandma" spends some of her time driving around at 65mph* on the freeway, which is much more dangerous, but we let her do that anyway.
(* Ok.. maybe 45...)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
A car also doesn't have the problem of crashing/accelerating madly/or turning abruptly when you lose your balance since you are in a seated position.
Personally, I would suggest taking a spin on a Segway before buying into the "perfect" scooter idea. They work well, but it is rather easy to bust on one if you aren't on your game.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:4, Informative)
Like anything else, even a failsafe can fail. It's possible that a chip went bad, or a battery internally shorted near the low limit of the safe charge level, or any number of other problems.
Besides, the progenitor to the Segway is a four-wheel ATV model that was designed to be a smarter stair climbing wheelchair. If they get them approved as medical devices, with all four wheels on the ground it's likely to be as safe as any other electric wheelchair.
Re:Not a good idea (Score:2)
Re:Not a good idea (Score:4, Funny)
Solution: Airbag-featured Segway
balance (Score:5, Insightful)
if it does, then that would not be a good choice of transportation for older people
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Re:balance (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:balance (Score:5, Informative)
My understanding is that there are no mechanical gyroscopes in a Segway. The Segway is balanced dynamically; the computer senses forward or backward motion, acceleration, center of gravity, etc., and maintains verticality by rapidly and almost imperceptibly turning the wheels to counteract tipping forces.
GWB tried to get on when the thing was not turned on. See http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technolo
Re:balance (Score:2)
Re:balance (Score:2)
Re:balance (Score:2)
Laser gyroscopes are used on aircraft for INS (probably with mechanical backups). So there's no reason for a recently developed machine not to use solid state systems.
Re:balance (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, but is it their sense of balance that's off, or their body's ability to compensate for it? You can know you're falling and still not be able to stop yourself.
Re:balance (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of people seem to think that the Segway balances for you, and that's half-true. But it's honestly like riding a bike. It's easy enough to ride once you know how to ride it... until then, it's really quite frightening. My biggest problem was that my body would do what it naturally would do if it were off-kilter; it would compensate by leaning in the opposite direction I was falling. Of course, the Segway would do the exact same thing, and for a while I was holding on while the Segway and my body were fighting each other for balance. When you finally learn to trust the damn machine, it starts working for you.
The other thing is learning that the hand you used to use to flip the windshield wipers in a car... now is used to turn your vehicle. That's just kind of weird, and is part of the learning process.
Anyways, those were the experiences of a healthy, well-balanced 22 year old. If anyone in the retirement community can verify these experiences, please do so!
No balance is why there is a Segway (Score:4, Informative)
A person's inability to balance was one of the driving reasons behind the Segway. The technology in the Segway started in the Ibot, nicked Fred Upstairs (after Fred Astaire, hence "Ginger") that was a 4 wheel, self-balancing device for people that would replace wheelchairs. It was able to climb up and downstairs, which is something otherwise chair-bound folk could not do. It had potnetial for people with all sorts of mobility limitations.
From the Segway site:
"One day Dean Kamen saw a young man in a wheelchair struggling to get over a curb. He thought about it, and realized that the problem wasn't ineffective wheelchairs, it was that the world was built for people who could balance. So he and his team created the Independence IBOT (TM) Mobility System, a self-balancing mobility device that enables users to climb stairs and negotiate sand, rocks, and curbs. But restoring balance also accomplished something even more dramatic--it elevated them on two wheels, so they could see the world at eye level. If balancing technology could provide such benefits to people who couldn't walk, what could it do for people with full mobility?"
So, at least the company started out with good intentions (and they may still have them) but funny how you don't see a lot of disabled people using them.
Re:No balance is why there is a Segway (Score:2)
They can still market to disabled people, just not as a medical device. Getting governent approval to market it as a medical device would open up quite a few cans of worms. It isn't the device itself, it is also that it would be required to comply with a whole slew of laws for handicapped and disabled. They can still use viral marketing, let existing c
Re:balance (Score:3, Informative)
I've ridden a Segway, and it requires subtle balance and reflexes, which is what the elderly tend to not have. The Segway eliminates gross motor skills - so you don't need to be strong - but you do need to make very subtle adjustments frequently, and having poor balance would be disastrous.
Anyone tried a Segway after a few (good) beers - that should be a decent test, actually.
Grannie fell over again... (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok... they aren't safe operating cars... so how is a Segway any different? I think it would be worse because at least you have a car protecting you when Grannie hits ya.
Re:Grannie fell over again... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Grannie fell over again... (Score:2)
Unfortunately for those worried about Segway collisions, the whole thing weighs a lot less than a car, or even most motorcycles.
i wouldn't want Grannie in a car at all if she can ride in a Segway, since the Segway's less likely to cripple me when it hits. Just pass a few laws stating that the Segway belongs on the sidewalks, and that's that. It's not like anyone's going to spend $5000 on a non-approved mobility device which requires you to stay
Hmmm. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sounds more like to bored to walk.
remember back when... (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps "killer" isn't the word (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Perhaps "killer" isn't the word (Score:2)
But former Colorado governor Dick Lamm Approves. [ylcss.edu.hk] (The second quote, not the first)
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Segway LLC will never market it this way. Can't. (Score:5, Informative)
J&J retains the rights to *all* medical applications.
So Segway has to specifically market it as a non-medical device and never seek FDA approval of any kind because then J&J could step in and make a ruckus.
In fact, if it can be shown that the Segway is largely used by disabled/mobility-impaired people, bad things could happen to Segway LLC.
I keep seeing people chastising Segway for not persuing the disabled market, but these are the facts. Even if they wanted to go through the lengthy and expensive medical review process, they simply can not because of their business arrangement.
Re:Segway LLC will never market it this way. Can't (Score:5, Interesting)
I am not old, well, not terminally so, but crippled nonetheless; I walk with crutches, don't have a very good balance, and am quite limited in the distance I can walk confortably; a wheelchair is not really an option; it took me long enough to get rid off the darn thing and it has other limitations (despites ADA and all that, few places are really accessible, and standing up does have a number of advantages such as physiological (digestion, blood circulation, etc. works better), it opens up bunch of places otherwise not accessible, helps in interacting with other people on an eye to eye level, makes a big difference, etc); electric scooters (three/four wheels, grany style) are pretty limited too (not really practical or manoeverable, just saves a bit of effort), and anything marketed as 'mobility' devices costs more than what most people spend on a car.
I did get a chance of trying one of these Segways (I just sent them my email and they told me when the next demo was taking place nearby) and was impressed; the Segway guy doing the demo did show me how to get on the thing safely (you know, when/how do you drop the crutches
The thing though is that 5 grand (at the time) was a bit steep so I passed on the idea;
Anyway, the Segway could never be marketted as a device 'for the disable'; to do so, they'd have to make it a lot heavier, and bulkier, limit the range further, add a lot of chrome, look at wheelchairs and crutches, chrome everywhere, that's what the likes of them like I tell you, gimps gear has to be heavy and shiny, replace the batteries with the electric wheelchair kind (that leak acid, don't last long and cost a lot more), modify the look so that no 'normal' person would ever want to be seen even dead riding one (though some on this forum might argue that this is already the case:) and of course double/triple the price; nothing short of that could possibly satisfy the FDA.
forgot this demo (Score:3, Funny)
tcd004
Segway or Out-of-My-Way (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Segway or Out-of-My-Way (Score:2)
Or a "Centaur" being a mythical beast, half-man and half-horse, being over 100 years of age?
Too proud?? haha (Score:2, Insightful)
Um (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um (Score:2, Insightful)
Since the segway has hand-grips in a natural position, this extended standing you mention should be less of a problem tha
More specifically (Score:5, Insightful)
Thats probably not that big of a niche.
Segway is an enabling technology (Score:2, Insightful)
For the genuinely disabled, a wheelchair is the difference between thriving and rotting. Most Segway ownere I see are just too lazy to do their own walking.
I see a lot of obese grandmothers, age 55, riding around on these things with their nose in the air, and I remember something I heard an old Irish coun
Ignore me (Score:2)
Sorry for wasting bandwidth.
No, you're grossly uninformed... (Score:5, Insightful)
One simple example would be multiple sclerosis. Somebody with MS can be *completely* disabled considerably before they lose the ability to walk, and in fact often never lose it completely. Small amounts of activity can tire them out, so having something like a motorized wheelchair makes the difference between being able to do one short activity before needing to go to bed for the day, and being able to lead something resembling a "good" life. There are many other disorders with the same effect as well.
Some disorders also require sporadic treatment with drugs (like prednisolone) that can cause massive (usually short-term) weight gain. Other times, it becomes a matter of being so impaired on a daily basis that something as simple as taking a shower is a struggle that requires a nap afterwards. It's not surprising that people unable to gather enough energy to do more than shower would ultimately gain weight, especially if they are also put on one of the meds that causes tissue swelling.
I'm not saying all cases are like this. I'm sure that there are people that choose not to exercise, refuse to eat right, and really are just using scooters because they're overweight. But don't go around slamming all people using motorized scooters or similar for being "lazy" when you have no idea how many have a legitimate illness that makes their everyday lives harder than you can even *imagine* life being.
Even Superpower Rulers Fall... (Score:2)
Google Search for Link (Score:2, Informative)
Then click the link from there.
Killer app is appropriate (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Killer app is appropriate (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, Segways aren't glued to the ground. Just because they can maneuver easily on the road or sidewalk doesn't mean you can take them anywhere at all without paying attention to what you're doing. If you radically shift the center of balance to one side, you risk toppling over. The gyros take care of front-to-back motion and basic instability, but but if you do something like drive a single wheel off a curb laterally, two things will almost certainly happen:
1 - your center of gravity will suddenly find itself moved to the outside of the wheel.
2 - you'll topple over.
Even though Segways are easy to ride and inherently very safe, they still require smart and careful operation to stay that way. Your friend's accident, from how you describe it, had nothing to do with agility and everything to do with careless riding. If he kept his wheel away from the curb, there would have been no problem.
I do hope he has recovered from the accident, and if he ever tries to ride one again he simply needs to mind the terrain. As for me, I do not own a Segway, but it's high on the list of Things To Get If I Ever Have A Major Windfall. Or if the price ever drops under $1500 or so - my office is about 5 miles away in the next town, and I could easily make the trip with one most days.
Re:Killer app is appropriate (Score:4, Insightful)
Not meaning to be critical
Maybe not the best solution (Score:4, Interesting)
And without the fancy gyros needed, it could be built a lot cheaper.
Re:Maybe not the best solution (Score:3, Interesting)
No way, not standing. Not unless you're talking about a reaalllly wide (and long) stance that would make it unmaneuverable.
Segways don't usually fall unless something goes dramatically wrong. I would argue that many elderly people would be far more likely to fall walking than when cautiously riding a Segway.
Re:Maybe not the best solution (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got to agree, and the article seems to indicate users find it more comfortable to stand while getting around rather than sitting in a wheelchair. If you're stuck sitting without much ability to shift around, it gets painful after awhile. Old people have trouble walking, that's not the same as standing. Standing you can just, well, stand there. But walking is much more complicated, you'
iBot, anyone? (Score:2)
Dammit, forgot the other thing I was gonna say (Score:5, Informative)
If I had the cash.... (Score:3, Funny)
*(with 2 years of software development time, not for use around the frail or infirm, your electric bill may show unexpected increases, void where prohibited, your milage may vary, not responsible for reactions of household pets, not responsible if you install optional Death Ray appendage)
Probably not wise... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have had the luck of actually being able to ride on one of these for about 10 minutes about a year ago. They are incredibly easy to use once you get used to trusting it....however...I would not recommend getting it for anyone who has trouble walking up steps, or has a bad sense of balance.
I found it a bit tricky to get on at first, because unless you're pretty careful, the thing tends to start moving before you're ready for it. Also, it really doesn't take much to get it to move forward or backward, so not having a good sense of balance once on it could send you in directions you're not expecting.
Don't get me wrong, I loved riding the thing and I think after an hour or two of riding and steering it around I could have mastered the thing. But I am 25 years old, and have a decent sense of balance. It was not a problem for me to control. The thing is very heavy though, and once you're off and the motors are disengaged it is very tricky to load in a vehicle or "park" in the corner.
Perhaps not the best thing for an elderly person. A walker or a cane, or even a wheelchair would be more suitable, not to mention that all three of those things are welcome inside most places (I have yet to see a Segway driving through the grocery store). But for a younger disabled person who has strength to control it and deal with moving it around it could mean a whole new life and way of getting around.
I would love to buy one of these, it would pay itself off in a week just charging for rides!
No big surprise ... (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as I'm concerned, anything that can take away some of the stigma of a wheelchair for those that can still stand, is a great thing.
Lawyers (Score:4, Informative)
Accidents, injuries, and deaths arising from this new mobility product are inevitable. At Davis, Saperstein & Salomon, P.C., we stay at the forefront of new litigation. Our personal injury lawyers are prepared to handle any case that may arise as a result of a Segway accident.
You can read the rest here [dsslaw.com]
They even have a picture of the Segway on the page and details about how the Segway works. Their "motto" is We stay at the forefront of New Litigation."
Saw this last summer (Score:5, Interesting)
This Comes As No Surprise ... (Score:5, Interesting)
For the record he's thin as a rail and still has reasonable mobility, although he could never walk this distance daily. The Segway's replacing a car in this case ... and affording the old sport a far more sociable experience than a car ever could.
I think it's safe to say that most folks in my town would be very puzzled by the anti-Segway sentiments on Slashdot.
Niche crazy! (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes 2 wheels are better. But for disabled people I would go with 3 or more.
Sounds great till he falls and breaks his hip. (Score:3, Funny)
What a great idea for a fragile old man who has trouble walking - stick him standing up on a gyro-balanced thing that walks faster than we ever could and hope he doesn't manage to fall off.
Segways are pretty safe for the elderly (Score:3, Insightful)
First, they addressed that low battery tipping thing early on, now I bleieve they have a number of warnings and I think it also slows to a halt if the battery gets too low.
Secondly they have a power-assist mode so they can scoot themselves up curbs and over into corners even when you're not on them.
Thirdly you can go as slow as you like - but at least you have the option to go faster. The Segway would give you a much more practical range than a wheelchair as it can go faster where it is safe to, and also fits more places than a wheelchair does.
When I'm 90 (or 190) I know which I would prefer if I need some assitance getting around.
Wow. (Score:2)
"Killer App" (Score:2)
"Increase my killing power eh? (Score:2)
Hope your grandfather has better balance than Bush (Score:2, Funny)
So, I wouldn't call it a wheelchair replacement. Despite the machine's clinical look, a walker still might be a better choice.
Disabled != Lacking Pride (Score:2, Insightful)
That's not pride... *True* pride is using whatever resources are available to lead life to its fullest, without feeling ashamed to show others we are different. It is a *lack* of pride that would lead a person to restrict his/her enjoyment of life and visibility in public for fear "normal" people see their differences.
(Speaking here as a disabled but not mobility-impaired person, that uses technology to its fullest as I need to lead my life. If others think I'm somehow
As a disabled person myself (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't walk my dog, shop, or much of anything else without a *lot* of pain.
But, I despise those little electric carts. It's personally humiliating and embarrassing to me to have to use them.
But I can't walk around super wally world, no way. One of these, if I could afford one, would be much better.
My only real fear would be taking a spill and blowing out my $100,000 titanium hardware store.
And I would be concerned about older folks, like those in their 70's and up dumping out and breaking some bones. These things COULD be dangerous. Just ask DuMbya.....
Look out below! (Score:3, Informative)
Really good for only moderately handicapped people (Score:4, Interesting)
To Proud For A Wheelchair (Score:2)
Weird.
killer app? (Score:2)
I think you meant, finally an app, period, for the blasted thing ...
Medical Pricing? (Score:3, Informative)
Segways on DC Metrorail (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Negative Opionions (Score:2, Funny)
Isn't that like missing an arm, but not wanting a prosthetic arm because it makes one look like they are missing an arm?
Re:Negative Opionions (Score:2)
Re:I agree.. (Score:2)
Sir, you have made me urinous with laughter. Oh, for mod points.