Posted
by
timothy
from the sane-versioning-system-is-a-plus dept.
Dreadlord writes "Gentoo has released 2004.3 for x86, amd64, hppa, ppc, sparc, and an initial release for ppc64. You can read the information page, the changelog, or go straight to the mirrors, or better yet, the torrents."
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these are only the versions of the live CD. Your actual Gentoo install has no version number because its always the latest. So regardless if you used 2004.0 or 2004.3 to install - you ultimately have the same version after you've completely installed.
You need a program call xkeycaps to help save your key layout. It's on the net and although it's not available for Amd64 under portage the 32 bit version ran just fine the other day for me. Once you got your keys the way you like save them in an.xmodmap file and use xmodmap to update X11. Job sorted.
Yes. All you have to do (not in Gentoo at the moment, so forgive my lack of specifics) is change the make.profile symlink to the new profile (the one which corresponds to the liveCD release using x.org) and do an emerge -uvD world.
Likewise. However all jokes aside, it's still a pest because I always do an emerge world -UD any time I install Gentoo. Had I downloaded the 2004.3 livecd, many/most of these upgrades would be included in the stage 3 tarball
What makes it worse still is that this was done on a PIII-667.
What makes it worse still is that this was done on a PIII-667
i believe the minimum hardware requirements for gentoo are defined as "any machine capable of compiling the latest release in less time than the stated release period".
i believe the minimum hardware requirements for gentoo are defined as "any machine capable of compiling the latest release in less time than the stated release period".
And I believe you can circumvent that by using stage3+GRP.
The stage tarballs themselves, iirc, are pretty small. If you use stage 3 there should be enough to alllow you to emerge bittorrent if it isn't on the livecd already and then use it to get the GRP or whatever other CDs you want.
No there isn't, to my knowledge. You can downloaded the stages using bittorrent and either burn them to a CD or store them on another partition. The stages themselves aren't particularly large files (relative to several CDs like other distros), so it wouldn't be that much help anyway.
USE flags are very powerful - if and only if - you set them on a per package basis. If you just leave it to setting them globally like they suggest to you in the manual, you will forget/not realize something, screw it up and cause problems.
The USE flags are pretty straight forward when looking at them in the context of a particular package. Pass the -pv ([p]retend to not install the package yet, and [v]erbose to see what USE flags the package will do) option to emerge. Say you do emerge -pv kde. You will probably see that samba support is off by default! Big issues there if you need access to Windows network shares.
If you don't get what a USE flag means, you can always do a "less/usr/portage/profiles/use.desc" to get a description of most of them.
If you have time, you might consider emerging ufed, and going through ALL (including local) flags, deciding whether you need it or not. Gives an ok curses interface for setting them. Careful not to accidentally exit without saving -- a common problem.
That joke is so damn old. I installed gentoo on my p3 900 laptop in 2 days, including X and KDE and firefox. Did it from knoppix, so I had a fully functional system the whole time it was working. Also, theres binaries for a lot of big packages, so I probably could have done it in a couple hours if I really felt like it. Think of a new joke already.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Monday November 15, 2004 @12:38AM (#10817640)
It's been awhile since I used gentoo-- the computer I had it installed on physically broke a few months ago-- but the thing I really wished for when I last used it was some sort of way to figure out, when you've installed a package, what is the first thing you do to make it work? Like, some sort of emerge info packagename command. I would install ircd and go "okay, i have ircd installed on my computer... now what? is it configured for me? is it enabled?" and not have any idea what to do except try to poke through the only-sometimes-relevant gzipped files in/usr/doc or whereever.
Usually what you do is blindly try "man ircd" at the terminal prompt, for example, or if that doesn't work, go to packages.gentoo.org [gentoo.org] , type in the package name, follow the homepage link, and find instructions there.
Another thing to try is qpkg -l . This lists the files in the package, so you can pick out any man pages or other docs. If nothing else you can see what binaries were installed and try running them with -h.
Doesn't Gentoo manage something like a/usr/share/doc/package-name/ directory?
At least, that's often the first place I look after installing a Debian package. It's just the upstream documentation and readme files, as well as any distro-related documentation.
Most packages that have user-based postinstalls will print out a message after they complete the install with instructions on what to do.
A good example is GAIM: which prints out a giant message that tells you not to seek help in #gaim for fear of ridicule.
For the packages that do not have instructions, then if it is a/etc/init.d starting package, there is probably a config file in/etc/conf.d. In most case you can always assume there is a default configuration that comes with the package (if one can exis
Before all the dumb jokes start, here's what this means:
If you want to install Gentoo for the first time, you can download a bunch of precompiled packages and complete an installation in a few hours or so, probably less.
If you already have Gentoo on your system, this won't mean much since you can update the everything by with the command(s) "#emerge sync; emerge -uDp world"
This does not mean everyone with Gentoo is going to be compiling for days. You're still stuck with us for a while.
If you want to install Gentoo for the first time, you can download a bunch of precompiled packages and complete an installation in a few hours or so, probably less.
I hope they fixed the problem with the AMD64 release where some packages were missing on the package-cd: I tried to do a network-less install, but in the end I needed internet-connectivity after all.
Technically speaking, emerge -u does not completely upgrade your system to the newest release. You need to update your system profiles as well. If you are upgrading from 2004.1 or later, it is as simple as
# rm/etc/make.profile
# ln -s../usr/portage/profiles/default-linux//2004.3/etc/make.profile
However, if you are upgrading from versions earlier than Gentoo 1.4, it is quite complicated. For more information, see the Gentoo Upgrade Guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-upgrading.xml
Since I could install from 1.2 and after my emerge sync emerge world at the end would be as up to date as someone who used 2004.3.
Gentoo linux simply does not, now or ever, warrant release notification. It is released and will remain so; up to date today, regardless. This is why I choose it...
However, release announces are no better that SCO stories, redundant and old news.
This isn't exactly true, particularly with respect to profiles (which dictate things like which packages are system packages). Read section 2 here [gentoo.org].
And, of course, release notices are a form of marketing, as with all software.
Gentoo linux simply does not, now or ever, warrant release notification. It is released and will remain so; up to date today, regardless. This is why I choose it...
I've not yet looked at Gentoo, and I'm curious. Does Gentoo have an established way of managing version dependencies while keeping it up-to-date? Presumably there are some packages that break when new versions of other packages are released, unless every package is checked carefully before releasing it into the distro. If they are chec
Gentoo does something similar where ebuilds are "masked" until it is known that they will compile properly and coexist with the rest of the system. Dependencies can also be specified with comparators such as = and so forth to ensure that a newer version of a dependency won't be installed (or will be slotted if possible) if it will break something.
the hard mask -- which means that the package maintainer does not deem the package to be safe at all.
the ~ mask -- which is the unstable package. You can tell the emerge system that you wish to have the unstable system, in which case it will ignore the ~ mask.
Also, there is such a thing as profiles. They have things such as the version of gcc and glibc that your system uses. If you chose the right profile, you can continue building the system with gcc 2.95. Although the packages are not well tested with it, and no one wants to specifically check and mask each package with older profiles.
I had to use a (late) beta of the 2004.3 release recently to get Gentoo installed onto some only recently-released hardware. 2004.2 didn't play nicely either with the SATA controller or the on-board ethernet.
For those out their too timid to try a beta install CD, this might well be eagerly-awaited news.
The older your LiveCD gets, the older its packages are and the more stuff needs to be recompiled for the final system. An older version also has worse hardware compatibility. Lastly, for people who use binary packages, an out-of-date install CD makes binary packages worthless, as you have to compile new versions of most packages.
I wonder why so many non-gentoo user goes out of their way to flame gentoo because you have to compile everything from source. If you dont like it, dont use it. I like it, I use it. This is almost like Linux VS BSD:(
Umm, Compiling everything is this big misconception. There are prebuilt binary packages available for most common applications for most architechtures. Infact if gentoo binary package is not there, there is a fair chance you will not get the binary package for other distros as well. I am using gentoo on my AMD64, and i do not want to go back to any other distro.
But then its always a matter of choice. And if the only reason of you not using gentoo is compiling everything from source, then its the wrong reason.
Nobody cares that you compile things form source. It's the inappropriate evangelism.
Gentoo users have a tendency (not true of all users, but enough) to be so in love with the flexibility that they can't put themselves in the place of other users with different needs.
Newbies to Linux are almost *always* confused. Sad, but true. At least in my dealings with family, friends, coworkers, and faceless persons online, that's what I've seen.
Not that it's unique to Linux, it happens with newbies to most all operating systems.
For those who think `emerge sync && emerge -uD world` will update your system:
Don't forget to update the/etc/make.profile link after an `emerge sync`. The sync will place the new profile in/usr/portage/profiles. From the Gentoo Upgrading Guide [gentoo.org]:
substitute $arch with your arch # rm/etc/make.profile # ln -s../usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/$arch/2004.3/etc/make.profile
I don't use Gentoo myself - the server downstairs runs Debian - but it's nice to see that it's moving forward, being updated, and being used.
It's good for people to have the ability to choose what they want, and if this revision encourages people who've previously tried Gentoo and found it in some way lacking - never tried it myself - then maybe they'll try it again and find what they missed the first time.
Forward my GNU/Linux friends, onwards to a less viral, more versatile, personally empowering digital horizon.
Gentoo is widely known for its portage system. If you want something, say irssi, you just type 'emerge irssi' and hit enter and it downloads it and compiles it. This system though is a rip of BSD's ports system (they did a good job though).
Its main shortcoming: its linux. I'll stick with FreeBSD until the day it dies (please no BSD dying jokes)
"I'll stick with FreeBSD until the day it dies (please no BSD dying jokes)"
Why ? (not inteded has a flame or anything, just curious.)
Gentoo's biggest weakness and its greatest strength are the same thing: Portage. Portage solves dependancies and installs packages (programs, libraries etc etc) however it compiles everything from source so it takes for_ever for large packages, especially on older/slower machines. If they added a suite of GUI tools, corporate backing, and came up with a way to install p
This system though is a rip of BSD's ports system (they did a good job though).
Ripped, but slightly improved. Portage features USE flags which let you choose what you do and don't want to compile -in support for. If you only want KDE/Qt programs running, you can disable gtk/gnome support in your USE flags. I may be wrong but I think this is absent in ports?
Long story short: if you know your way around linux, gentoo's a delight to use. If you don't know your way around linux, avoid gentoo until you be
I would argue that the few times I have installed gentoo made me much more familiar with linux than playing with Fedora for any period of time would have.
Portage is the main act. The side show is that it is compiled exactly how you want. As others have said, if you want something like Gaim, it's baiscly, emerge --ask -v gaim, it will ask you if you want to install gaim, and all of the dependancies. other than that, it's a very very striped down install, and very easy to keep up to date.
While I've never used an apt-get system, I had the same problem with dependencies on RPM-based systems. It seems that most distributions try to provide as much functionality in the package as possible to meet the needs of the widest possible user-base. The result is that grabbing a small package can result in multiple large dependencies being downloaded and installed.
Gentoo's answer to this is the set of USE flags. You can provide your flags either globally or on a package-by-package basis. For exampl
I'm sure you know it's source based by the dozens of +5 Funny's..
What's good? The package system is transparent and extremely hackable. If you don't touch it, it works just like apt or yum. But if you want to make a change, its extremely easy to pop the ebuild in vim and change it, or fork your own version. Also very easy to produce a "package" for any specific version you like, often as simple as renaming a file.
What's bad? Initial installation takes a while (I can get a useable box in ~ 3 hours. Gnome & co take the longest). Not recommended for slow computers (anything made in the last four years ought to be fine) due to frequent code compilation. Portage moves very very fast. Lots of new versions released every week.
I run it everywhere, including this here Toshiba Tecra S-1 notebook.
My primary reason for using Gentoo is Portage. I couldn't care less about "speed optimizations" or whatnot. But being able to install software with one command is wonderful.
My secondary reason is that it is continuously updated. I have yet to reinstall my system for anything else than major hardware upgrades. This is why I never liked Debian much, which in retrospect might have been wrong.
My tertiary reason is the documentation and community. http://forums.gentoo.org and #gentoo on freenode will get you l
I like the fact that you have so much control over your installation, and the fact that you can compile for your own system easily is also very attractive features, but the trade off is how much time do you want to spend on Linux choosing and customising when there's a real world going on outside? In my case, the real world wins out.
Perhaps it's a bit like people who build cars by hand - not for every driver on the road, but a good hobby for some.
Too time consuming? Granted the initial setup may take a bit longer than RedHat or Debian but maintenance takes so much less time.
I don't have to worry about security holes anymore. I have a firewall setup and I emerge -q sync and emerge -up world every night and look at it whenever there is something for me to update. And when it does update I don't have to worry about other programs not using the most up to date versions of libraries, it does it all for me.
It's pretty obvious that you have never tried using gentoo.
I think that once set up, Gentoo takes much less time to maintain and run than any Distro I have ever used (Redhat 5.2-9, Fedora 1 and 2, Debian, Mandrake, Knoppix (on hard drive), slackware).
I think that this is partly because the package manager is so great (trustworthy, stable and easy to use), and partly because the software that is installed is compiled specifically for all of the other
Gentoo often refers to itself as a "meta distribution." In many cases it's like an automated Linux From Scratch. Point is, I use Portage and its tools to roll my own stuff on a local server and create binary packages on the server and all my client machines install from there. I don't rice out with stupid optimisations, but it is nice that all my packages are compiled the way I want them. (By that I mean since no one here runs Gnome, I have no Gnome support compiled in, etc.)
i think gentoo is sort of an investment. even for someone who knows the system well, doing the install is a pain in the ass. however, once everything's set up, i find it very easy to maintain. it really is just like no effort to keep it all up to date and such. emerge --sync && emerge -u world && etc-update and come back later to finish things up. do this maybe once a week and you're chill.
portage has roughly a gajillion packages which is also good for lazy people (emerge CoolProgram b
Funny. I'd say Gentoo saved me more time than it cost me during install (which is really time consuming). I've setup my Gentoo computer ~four years ago. It took some time to install and configure to my tastes. However, since then, moving to a different machine is just a matter of grabbing the list of packages in the world profile in the old computer, and emerge'ing the whole list in the new one. It cooks for a couple of days, but the new computer chugs along without interaction. Then, move the homedir, and
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Monday November 15, 2004 @01:54AM (#10817930)
Gentoo is faster than the other distros, yes it is in many cases, but in many others it is not.
This myth that gentoo is some kind of speed demon is just stupid, it's about as fast as all the others give and take etc. etc.
The real benefit of gentoo is in that it teaches people how to put together a gentoo system, it's a learning experience of a sort.
But fanboys who trick noobs into using it for the speed shouldn't do so, it's not.
And also fanboys who try to claim that a hand built distro like that should be used in PRODUCTION servers (I believe there is a company set up by gentoo users to peddle this idea) is just insance.
The WHOLE point of a production server is that it has been tested THOUSANDS of times in a given configuration. Production has always meant, and always will mean a trade-off between the latest and stability.
To try and claim that you can run your server with some loopy custom compilations and expect to be able to get support for it is just ridiculous. The extra money spent on getting all this hand-craftednes should just be spent on a beefier server.
And as gentoo doesn't actually offer a definitive speed-gain, just spending $30 to get to the next CPU catergory up with 5% more performance will decimate any speed advantage created by the gentoo system optimizations.
please, stop the astro turfing, gentoo is great from a system design perspective, customisation and learning about linux. But it is not, and cannot (nothing can) be ALL pros and no cons. Be suspicious of any fanboy who says so because making those claims about ANY distro is just peddling snake-oil.
What many Gentoo users fail to realize is that compilation time and man hours can become very expensive for a company.
Why does a company exist ? (hint: to make money...)
To make money using whatever tools work ?
or to make less money using supposedly "better" tools ?
If applications aren't tested against Gentoo, and there is no set release cycle with Gentoo, corporate america isn't going to care about Gentoo. Like it or not, they are going to care about perdictabili
The evidence does not suggest that gentoo is inherently slower than other distributions, although sometimes people do use the wrong optimizations. It does suggest that in many cases, gentoo is faster, especially on obscure architectures, or basically anything other than a PPro which is what most Linux distributions are built for; there's an i386 build, and an i686 build.
The real benefit of gentoo is not that it teaches you something. The best way to actually learn what's going on is to install LFS, aka
Have the boot scripts been changed? I tried Gentoo some time ago, and saw that if there was a problem with any of the boot scripts, they would stop and wait for a key press before the boot process could continue. That alone was enough to make me wipe it out.
Yes, I could have re-written the boot scripts, but I had better things to do with my time.
If anyone knows (otherwise I'll go to the gentoo forums) when you install the PPC version does it give an option to install a bootloader (like GRUB/LILO etc.) to dual boot OS X, or is this something they expect you to do afterwards?
Very familiar with linux on PC's, just a bit of a newbie to my powerbook.
First off, I had submitted Slashdot an official press release which was much more verbose and gave a nice list of reasons for the release and things changed since the last release, but since the editors are a bunch of tools and don't pay attention to what they're adding to the site, it all got lost.
Anyway, for the x86 platform, the primary reason for the getting a newer release is improved hardware support. The newer LiveCD for x86 supports the new Dell EM64T machines and also has vastly improved SATA support over previous releases. This is also the first release where all of the arch teams worked very closely together throughout the entire release process. This is also our first official PPC64 release. The submitter of this story also completely missed the fact that we have a new Alpha release under/experimental, and you can also find embedded stages for arm, mips, ppc, and x86 under/experimental.
Eh, I've used Gentoo on and off for a long time now (Well over a year and a half, mebbe two years) and I've never had a problem with using portage to keep my system running spiffer. Even if a problem did pop up I know that the forums would have much debate about it by the time I found out about it first-hand, so fixing the problem was usually a case of reading a thread or two.
The big question... does it actually work and take care of everything?
Yes. The only other thing you might want to do (though its usually not necessary) is to update the profile. [gentoo.org] After an emerge -u world, everything will be current. With gentoo version numbers mean next to nothing. New versions are usually just updates to the installer livecd itself to fix bugs and support more hardware. The packages are updated constantly, not just when new gentoo releases come out.
so just link/etc/make.profile to the new profile in/usr/portage/profiles and emerge -uD world. It's not like you have to recompile the entire system from stage1.
Not really, I did that a few months back when I switched to gcc34 and did emerge -e world, didn't notice much difference. Just keep gcc33 around and eventually most packages will recompile during the normal update process with gcc34. Now, I'm not using an AMD64 though, so you have to decide whether whatever improvements have been made in gcc34 are worth doing it all over again.
Actually, I need to be more specific. The M stands for masked -- as in not valid for install given current settings.
The tilde is the marking for the unstable install. Although it is not visible in the above printout, the unstable version 3.3.4-r2 is not hard masked, while all the 3.4 versions are hard masked.
I will guess that the next update / make.globals change will unmask these versions, and I will upgrade to 3.4.2-r2
That'll re-emerge EVERYTHING...essentially, it pretends that you have no packages installed, and then does an emerge -uD world, if I understand correctly.
If you have an old profile [I know I had 1.4, and it did], Portage will warn you to update your profile by changing a single symlink, which it will explain how to do if necessary.
You may notice a large number of Gentoo-related packages had version updates in the latest tree. emerge sync && emerge -auD world.
etc # gcc --version gcc (GCC) 3.4.3 (Gentoo Linux 3.4.3, ssp-3.4.3-0, pie-8.7.6.6) Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2)
> So regardless if you used 2004.0 or 2004.3 to install - you ultimately have the same version after you've completely installed.
What about last time's switch to x.org ? Is there a reasonably easy to switch on an already installed system?
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
uninstall xfree
install x.org
I did it, it was easy.
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Funny)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml
Try this new flash game... It's a strange blend of Dungeon Dice and Pac-Man.
Chomp Dice [chompdice.com]
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
You can set it to whatever version you want by simply relinking the
There is no real need to do this, unless portage suggests doing this AFAIK.
All packages are kept up to date by the standard emerge system, and you will always have the latest version.
And remember to etc-update or etc-dispatch after each update to make sure that you have c
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
That would be the
ln -sf
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2)
What makes it worse still is that this was done on a PIII-667.
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Funny)
i believe the minimum hardware requirements for gentoo are defined as "any machine capable of compiling the latest release in less time than the stated release period".
you may be out of luck.
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
And I believe you can circumvent that by using stage3+GRP.
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Funny)
Just stressing.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just stressing.. (Score:2)
Re:Just stressing.. (Score:2)
Re:Just stressing.. (Score:2)
Re:Just stressing.. (Score:2, Insightful)
How many people would be willing to leave the installer running for a few extra hours to help out the torrent? I doubt very many.
Get them over with (Score:4, Funny)
- Nothing to see here...
- But I just emerged 2004.2!
- I will tell you how it works in 4 weeks when it is done emerging...
Did I miss any?Re:Get them over with (Score:4, Informative)
The USE flags are pretty straight forward when looking at them in the context of a particular package. Pass the -pv ([p]retend to not install the package yet, and [v]erbose to see what USE flags the package will do) option to emerge. Say you do emerge -pv kde. You will probably see that samba support is off by default! Big issues there if you need access to Windows network shares.
If you don't get what a USE flag means, you can always do a "less
Re:Get them over with (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Get them over with (Score:3, Informative)
2004.3? (Score:3, Funny)
Today (November 14) is more like 2004.87.
Re:2004.3? (Score:3, Funny)
Today (November 14) is more like 2004.87."
The release schedule is based upon quarterly releases, 2004.0 being the first quarter, 2004.1 being the second, and so on...
At least, that was the original intent. I'm not sure if they hit every release within the intended quarters though.
Re:2004.3? (Score:3, Insightful)
What I wish Gentoo had (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:2)
Say, if you emerged ngircd, the man method don't work, so you do the search [gentoo.org], follow the homepage link [arthur.ath.cx], where you find installation instructions [arthur.ath.cx].
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:2)
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:2)
Doesn't Gentoo manage something like a /usr/share/doc/package-name/ directory?
At least, that's often the first place I look after installing a Debian package. It's just the upstream documentation and readme files, as well as any distro-related documentation.
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:3, Informative)
A good example is GAIM: which prints out a giant message that tells you not to seek help in #gaim for fear of ridicule.
For the packages that do not have instructions, then if it is a
Someone's got to say it (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to install Gentoo for the first time, you can download a bunch of precompiled packages and complete an installation in a few hours or so, probably less.
If you already have Gentoo on your system, this won't mean much since you can update the everything by with the command(s) "#emerge sync; emerge -uDp world"
This does not mean everyone with Gentoo is going to be compiling for days. You're still stuck with us for a while.
Re:Someone's got to say it (Score:2)
I hope they fixed the problem with the AMD64 release where some packages were missing on the package-cd: I tried to do a network-less install, but in the end I needed internet-connectivity after all.
Not just emerge -u world (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Someone's got to say it (Score:5, Informative)
The -a is short for --ask. That will ask you if you really want to emerge the listed packages.
Why announce new Gentoo releases?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Gentoo linux simply does not, now or ever, warrant release notification. It is released and will remain so; up to date today, regardless. This is why I choose it...
However, release announces are no better that SCO stories, redundant and old news.
just my $0.02.
err!
jak
Re:Why announce new Gentoo releases?? (Score:3, Informative)
And, of course, release notices are a form of marketing, as with all software.
version dependencies (Score:2)
I've not yet looked at Gentoo, and I'm curious. Does Gentoo have an established way of managing version dependencies while keeping it up-to-date? Presumably there are some packages that break when new versions of other packages are released, unless every package is checked carefully before releasing it into the distro. If they are chec
Re:version dependencies (Score:2)
Re:version dependencies (Score:5, Informative)
the hard mask -- which means that the package maintainer does not deem the package to be safe at all.
the ~ mask -- which is the unstable package. You can tell the emerge system that you wish to have the unstable system, in which case it will ignore the ~ mask.
Also, there is such a thing as profiles. They have things such as the version of gcc and glibc that your system uses. If you chose the right profile, you can continue building the system with gcc 2.95. Although the packages are not well tested with it, and no one wants to specifically check and mask each package with older profiles.
Support for new hardware. (Score:2, Informative)
For those out their too timid to try a beta install CD, this might well be eagerly-awaited news.
Re:Why announce new Gentoo releases?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Gentoo does warrant release notifications.
The older your LiveCD gets, the older its packages are and the more stuff needs to be recompiled for the final system. An older version also has worse hardware compatibility. Lastly, for people who use binary packages, an out-of-date install CD makes binary packages worthless, as you have to compile new versions of most packages.
Icon? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since every other Linux distribution under the sun has their own Slashdot icon, how about providing one for Gentoo as well?
Thanks.
Re:Icon? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Icon? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Icon? (Score:5, Funny)
Speaking of the wacky gentoo penguin. Does anyone else find it strangely similar to this [lycos.com]?
Jiminy Krikes!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Why all this hate? D: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:2)
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:2)
Compile...? (Score:5, Informative)
But then its always a matter of choice. And if the only reason of you not using gentoo is compiling everything from source, then its the wrong reason.
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:2)
Nobody cares that you compile things form source. It's the inappropriate evangelism.
Gentoo users have a tendency (not true of all users, but enough) to be so in love with the flexibility that they can't put themselves in the place of other users with different needs.
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:3, Insightful)
Newbies to Linux are almost *always* confused. Sad, but true. At least in my dealings with family, friends, coworkers, and faceless persons online, that's what I've seen.
Not that it's unique to Linux, it happens with newbies to most all operating systems.
steve
Upgrading... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't forget to update the
substitute $arch with your arch
# rm
# ln -s
Candidate for OSS user friendly award. (Score:2)
Re:Candidate for OSS user friendly award. (Score:2)
Warning! (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, this is probably why you should do it per hand
Nice to see... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't use Gentoo myself - the server downstairs runs Debian - but it's nice to see that it's moving forward, being updated, and being used.
It's good for people to have the ability to choose what they want, and if this revision encourages people who've previously tried Gentoo and found it in some way lacking - never tried it myself - then maybe they'll try it again and find what they missed the first time.
Forward my GNU/Linux friends, onwards to a less viral, more versatile, personally empowering digital horizon.
Re:Nice to see... (Score:2, Funny)
And nothing going on upstairs, evident by your choice in distro!
As for the rest of your comment, where did you get the mdma/e from?
--Blade
Sooo... (Score:2)
Re:Sooo... (Score:2, Funny)
Its main shortcoming: its linux. I'll stick with FreeBSD until the day it dies (please no BSD dying jokes)
Re:Sooo... (Score:2)
Why ? (not inteded has a flame or anything, just curious.)
Gentoo's biggest weakness and its greatest strength are the same thing: Portage. Portage solves dependancies and installs packages (programs, libraries etc etc) however it compiles everything from source so it takes for_ever for large packages, especially on older/slower machines. If they added a suite of GUI tools, corporate backing, and came up with a way to install p
Re:Sooo... (Score:2)
Ripped, but slightly improved. Portage features USE flags which let you choose what you do and don't want to compile -in support for. If you only want KDE/Qt programs running, you can disable gtk/gnome support in your USE flags. I may be wrong but I think this is absent in ports?
Long story short: if you know your way around linux, gentoo's a delight to use. If you don't know your way around linux, avoid gentoo until you be
Re:Sooo... (Score:3, Informative)
gentoo and BSD (Score:3, Informative)
Links:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/inde
http://dev.gentoo.org/~g2boojum/bsd.html [gentoo.org]
Re:Sooo... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:emergent reality (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sooo... (Score:5, Informative)
What's good? The package system is transparent and extremely hackable. If you don't touch it, it works just like apt or yum. But if you want to make a change, its extremely easy to pop the ebuild in vim and change it, or fork your own version. Also very easy to produce a "package" for any specific version you like, often as simple as renaming a file.
What's bad? Initial installation takes a while (I can get a useable box in ~ 3 hours. Gnome & co take the longest). Not recommended for slow computers (anything made in the last four years ought to be fine) due to frequent code compilation. Portage moves very very fast. Lots of new versions released every week.
I run it everywhere, including this here Toshiba Tecra S-1 notebook.
Re:Sooo... (Score:3, Interesting)
My secondary reason is that it is continuously updated. I have yet to reinstall my system for anything else than major hardware upgrades. This is why I never liked Debian much, which in retrospect might have been wrong.
My tertiary reason is the documentation and community. http://forums.gentoo.org and #gentoo on freenode will get you l
Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Insightful)
I like the fact that you have so much control over your installation, and the fact that you can compile for your own system easily is also very attractive features, but the trade off is how much time do you want to spend on Linux choosing and customising when there's a real world going on outside? In my case, the real world wins out.
Perhaps it's a bit like people who build cars by hand - not for every driver on the road, but a good hobby for some.
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Informative)
I don't have to worry about security holes anymore. I have a firewall setup and I emerge -q sync and emerge -up world every night and look at it whenever there is something for me to update. And when it does update I don't have to worry about other programs not using the most up to date versions of libraries, it does it all for me.
I wouldn't run Gentoo on a slow box but it work
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:2, Informative)
It's pretty obvious that you have never tried using gentoo.
I think that once set up, Gentoo takes much less time to maintain and run than any Distro I have ever used (Redhat 5.2-9, Fedora 1 and 2, Debian, Mandrake, Knoppix (on hard drive), slackware).
I think that this is partly because the package manager is so great (trustworthy, stable and easy to use), and partly because the software that is installed is compiled specifically for all of the other
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Informative)
A couple of my friends and I us
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Insightful)
portage has roughly a gajillion packages which is also good for lazy people (emerge CoolProgram b
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Interesting)
Can people stoping saying (Score:5, Insightful)
This myth that gentoo is some kind of speed demon is just stupid, it's about as fast as all the others give and take etc. etc.
The real benefit of gentoo is in that it teaches people how to put together a gentoo system, it's a learning experience of a sort.
But fanboys who trick noobs into using it for the speed shouldn't do so, it's not.
And also fanboys who try to claim that a hand built distro like that should be used in PRODUCTION servers (I believe there is a company set up by gentoo users to peddle this idea) is just insance.
The WHOLE point of a production server is that it has been tested THOUSANDS of times in a given configuration. Production has always meant, and always will mean a trade-off between the latest and stability.
To try and claim that you can run your server with some loopy custom compilations and expect to be able to get support for it is just ridiculous. The extra money spent on getting all this hand-craftednes should just be spent on a beefier server.
And as gentoo doesn't actually offer a definitive speed-gain, just spending $30 to get to the next CPU catergory up with 5% more performance will decimate any speed advantage created by the gentoo system optimizations.
please, stop the astro turfing, gentoo is great from a system design perspective, customisation and learning about linux. But it is not, and cannot (nothing can) be ALL pros and no cons. Be suspicious of any fanboy who says so because making those claims about ANY distro is just peddling snake-oil.
Re:Can people stoping saying (Score:2)
What many Gentoo users fail to realize is that compilation time and man hours can become very expensive for a company.
Why does a company exist ? (hint: to make money
To make money using whatever tools work ?
or to make less money using supposedly "better" tools ?
If applications aren't tested against Gentoo, and there is no set release cycle with Gentoo, corporate america isn't going to care about Gentoo. Like it or not, they are going to care about perdictabili
Trollity troll troll troll (Score:3, Interesting)
The evidence does not suggest that gentoo is inherently slower than other distributions, although sometimes people do use the wrong optimizations. It does suggest that in many cases, gentoo is faster, especially on obscure architectures, or basically anything other than a PPro which is what most Linux distributions are built for; there's an i386 build, and an i686 build.
The real benefit of gentoo is not that it teaches you something. The best way to actually learn what's going on is to install LFS, aka
So, while I'm waiting for it to download... (Score:2, Interesting)
Have the boot scripts been changed? I tried Gentoo some time ago, and saw that if there was a problem with any of the boot scripts, they would stop and wait for a key press before the boot process could continue. That alone was enough to make me wipe it out.
Yes, I could have re-written the boot scripts, but I had better things to do with my time.
steve
IA64? (Score:2)
Dual booting OS X? (Score:2, Interesting)
If anyone knows (otherwise I'll go to the gentoo forums) when you install the PPC version does it give an option to install a bootloader (like GRUB/LILO etc.) to dual boot OS X, or is this something they expect you to do afterwards?
Very familiar with linux on PC's, just a bit of a newbie to my powerbook.
cheers
Gav
Amazing! (Score:5, Informative)
First off, I had submitted Slashdot an official press release which was much more verbose and gave a nice list of reasons for the release and things changed since the last release, but since the editors are a bunch of tools and don't pay attention to what they're adding to the site, it all got lost.
Anyway, for the x86 platform, the primary reason for the getting a newer release is improved hardware support. The newer LiveCD for x86 supports the new Dell EM64T machines and also has vastly improved SATA support over previous releases. This is also the first release where all of the arch teams worked very closely together throughout the entire release process. This is also our first official PPC64 release. The submitter of this story also completely missed the fact that we have a new Alpha release under /experimental, and you can also find embedded stages for arm, mips, ppc, and x86 under /experimental.
Did they fix glibc? (Score:3, Insightful)
A while ago, they were distributing beta glibc's that rumouredly broke a lot of programs.
Did they finally got around to fix that?
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2)
Personally I'm a chicken and only update packages individually when I find a need to do so.
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2, Informative)
Eh, I've used Gentoo on and off for a long time now (Well over a year and a half, mebbe two years) and I've never had a problem with using portage to keep my system running spiffer. Even if a problem did pop up I know that the forums would have much debate about it by the time I found out about it first-hand, so fixing the problem was usually a case of reading a thread or two.
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. The only other thing you might want to do (though its usually not necessary) is to update the profile. [gentoo.org] After an emerge -u world, everything will be current. With gentoo version numbers mean next to nothing. New versions are usually just updates to the installer livecd itself to fix bugs and support more hardware. The packages are updated constantly, not just when new gentoo releases come out.
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2)
The M stands for masked -- as in not valid for install given current settings.
The tilde is the marking for the unstable install. Although it is not visible in the above printout, the unstable version 3.3.4-r2 is not hard masked, while all the 3.4 versions are hard masked.
I will guess that the next update / make.globals change will unmask these versions, and I will upgrade to 3.4.2-r2
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2)
That'll re-emerge EVERYTHING...essentially, it pretends that you have no packages installed, and then does an emerge -uD world, if I understand correctly.
Re:And they still don't have an installer (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And they still don't have an installer (Score:2, Interesting)
over 500 systems installed over ssh =]
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=189250/ [gentoo.org]
Re:Just finished installin 2004.2 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I use Gentoo (Score:2)
If you have an old profile [I know I had 1.4, and it did], Portage will warn you to update your profile by changing a single symlink, which it will explain how to do if necessary.
You may notice a large number of Gentoo-related packages had version updates in the latest tree. emerge sync && emerge -auD world.
That's about it.
Re:New PPC Live CD (Score:2)
I'm not sure why this was marked as flamebait. Maybe when I check in tomorrow morning it will be fixed because a new PPC LiveCD was badly needed.
The 2004.2 version worked on some Macs but was way broken for others (like mine).
Since I've never used anything like Gentoo it's pretty important that it at least be configured correctly for noobies like me.
--Richard
PS: DL'ing right now!
Huh? (Score:3, Informative)