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Software Microsoft Operating Systems Windows

Microsoft Releases Toolbar Suite 476

Posted by timothy from the pretty-soon-it-will-be-a-trend dept.
Philipp Lenssen writes "Microsoft today released the MSN Toolbar Suite Beta. This brings true desktop search to Windows (for those who don't have Google Desktop Search or similar software running already) and also includes features like search term highlighting in web pages, auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker."
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Microsoft Releases Toolbar Suite More

Microsoft Releases Toolbar Suite

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  • Bundled Soon? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:40PM (#11077964) Homepage
    Who wants to bet that this suite is going to be bundled in the next Windows? It's pretty easy for them to integrate this toolbar into any Windows-apps like IE, Outlook, calendar etc since they also happen to write the OS.

    I always maintain that the majority of users don't know they have a choice, hence they're using/starting/opening whatever that's been thrown at them.

    It's quite convenient for MS to sit and see what works, then create their own, and with their dominance in desktop OS, they can easily claim a huge chunk of the desktop-suite market share overnight.

    It wouldn't be as easy for its online search service because that requires users to go there, thus opens up the "choice" perspective.

    • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:45PM (#11078016)
      i'm glad they did this. honestly i like ms stuff and hell i'm glad they came out with a toolbar so i dont have to download one from google or anyone else. they designed the os, the browser - they probably know best when designing this add-in toolbar.

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Mod parent up funny! (I think... gawd, I hope)

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:3, Informative)

        by nametaken ( 610866 )
        I'm just glad Microsoft is right on the bleeding edge of technological innovation. Clearly, they're pushing the envelope, with two fingers squarely on the pulse of the market.

        Appreciate this post, I had to kill 200 pop-ups to use slashdot.

    • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by fupeg ( 653970 )
      Next Windows? You mean Longhorn in 2006? [slashdot.org] How about an update to Windows XP? Especially now that SP2 makes most people turn on auto-update... They could just slip this in one night while you're sleeping.

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Martin Blank ( 154261 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:36PM (#11078387) Homepage Journal
        Unlikely, as even Microsoft wouldn't consider this a critical update, which is the only thing that AutoUpdate downloads. If they tried that, they'd have thousands of large corporate customers ticked off that this had been dropped onto their systems without their consent.

        • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:3, Informative)

          by slonkak ( 648358 )
          No, most corporations use an internal SUS server to distribute Windows Updates. Using SUS, the administrator must first approve the critical updates before they get pushed to the clients. That is, unless some assclown configured the SUS server and makes it auto-approve anything...

    • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wastingtape ( 576230 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:52PM (#11078069) Homepage
      It's quite convenient for MS to sit and see what works, then create their own, and with their dominance in desktop OS, they can easily claim a huge chunk of the desktop-suite market share overnight.

      Seems to work though wouldn't you say? I think a lot of business models are fashioned after low-risk investments. If someone else has already done the R&D why not "borrow" some from them? A good examples of positive externalities.

      Actually, as you mentioned, integration with all of MS's tools is probably great... for people who use them. Devaiting from the norm has it's consequences however. Running SquirrelMail as your primary mail client you rarely get support like this (heck i can't even click a mailto: link and have a window open up). It's all good for ma and pa Dell Windows XP machine.

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by kayen_telva ( 676872 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:12PM (#11078230)
        using the firefox extension "linkification" you can have your default mail "client" be a webpage, like squirrelmal

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by EnderWiggnz ( 39214 )
        in general, you are right - the "first movers" with a technology rarely win, and their competitors quickly copy any successful initiative.

        this, in normal situations is healthy.

        however, when one company has a monopoly on a good or service, they can then leverage that monopoly to extend their hold on the market. like integrating a browser, or designing your own rail cars...

        or, adding a desktop toolbar.
        • auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker
          What it really means (IMHO) - they're feeling the heat from both firefox AND google.
      • OK but do I get to shoot the first MS executive that says the word "innovate"?.

    • This buzz is all well and good, but the word is getting out that people have choices, even on Windows. Look at Firefox [spreadfirefox.com] surpassing 10,000,000 downloads. And Firefox throws a specially branded Google search page [google.com] at you.

      Microsoft's market share is slowly but surely eroding, and as people begin to see the high quality of open source software, it won't be long before a completely open source system becomes available to, and usable by, Joe Sixpack.

      • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Dr. Descartes ( 673148 )

        I would argue that certain distributions are usable by Joe Sixpack if they don't have to unlearn any computing habits instilled by using alternate operating systems. I have a brother in law who doesn't care one wit about computing. He's a pretty average high school kid. He uses apps provided by KDE under SuSe to surf the web, check his email, write his term papers, et cetera. I installed it for him one day and have answered one question since then regarding it. It just kind of works for him.

        I know it's

    • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      And what's wrong with that?

      If Apple did this, Mac Fanboys would be clamouring to download it and then post how it makes the Mac even EASIER to use...

      Ah well. MS has an OS that 97% of the PC's use, and they leverage it to their advantage. Apple, and in fact, ANY company would do the same. Good luck to them.

      Of course, justice, truth and "what's right" don't jive with the current corporate mindset. Love it, or leave it. Don't bitch about it.

    • Re:Bundled Soon? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Meh...

      Apple bundles everything they can think of with their OS. And the people love it. MS used to do that, and the people loved that too. That's just the way it is.

      Of course, choice is just that. Choice. If I choose to be a monoculture using desk-jockey, what makes you right and me wrong about my software preferences?
    • I won't bet - because it will happen. Microsoft has a history now of choking competitors (intentionally or not) for some time now - WMP, Messenger, Explorer, you name it.

      Like you said, people don't know what they have avaiable until shown to them.
    • Actually, I'm now forcing Firefox down end users' throats quite easily.

      Something along the lines of "If you want me to fix your computer for free, you need to have this browser installed and be using it, or I will start charging you." Most users migrate without a fight.

      Nicest part is that they all like Firefox, and are actually telling all their friends about it.

      Users somewhat have a choice; you just need to educate them about the choices they have.

  • Ironically... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wasted ( 94866 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:44PM (#11078000)
    The toolbar claims to block annoying popups, but the most annoying pop-up on my work computer (where I am forced to use Internet Exploder) is the one that says I have Active X disabled.

    • Re:Ironically... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by urlgrey ( 798089 )
      I wish there were a:
      "Please don't show me this error message ever again for any reason whatsoever even if it's a life threatening situation. Ever. Really. I mean it. I'm sure."
      checkbox and button combo for that.

    • Re:Ironically... (Score:3, Informative)

      by dioscaido ( 541037 )
      What pop-up are you talking about? IE6 SP2 only shows a small notification below the link bar of your current open window, which auto-hides after a few seconds.

    • Re:Ironically... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Boiling_point_ ( 443831 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @10:04PM (#11078513) Homepage
      I know how to fix that! Go to Tools, Internet Options, Security tab, then click the "Custom level..." button.

      Scroll down until you see a heading "ActiveX controls and plugins", and then select "enable" for every option in that section.

      Voila - problem solved! I hope this helps. :)

  • What's the big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 77Punker ( 673758 ) <(spencr04) (at) (highpoint.edu)> on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:44PM (#11078004)
    Windows includes a search function. IE with SP2 blocks popups. IE has been auto-completing things for a while, too. I don't understand why Microsoft made this. Even if the features are improved in the toolbar, shouldn't they have just improved the backend and just distribted it via Windows Update?

  • Popup blocker? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mind21_98 ( 18647 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:44PM (#11078006) Homepage Journal
    Doesn't XP SP2 come with a popup blocker? Why would they put another one in (besides bringing popup blocking to earlier versions of Windows)? It just seems like a waste to me.

    • Re:Popup blocker? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Stormwatch ( 703920 ) <(rodrigogirao) (at) (hotmail.com)> on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:49PM (#11078047) Homepage
      > Why would they put another one in
      > (besides bringing popup blocking
      > to earlier versions of Windows)?

      That could be a huge reason: to keep people with older Windows from adopting the "other" way to block popups... *cough*Firefox*cough*

    • Re:Popup blocker? (Score:4, Funny)

      by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:01PM (#11078158)
      Why would they put another one in ... It just seems like a waste to me.

      Microsoft Messenger (TM)
      Messenger Service of Windows (TM?)
      MSN Mesanger (TM)
      Windows Messenger (TM)
      Microsoft Windows Messaging (TM)

      Microsoft - Seems like a waste to me!
    • There has been an earlier public version of MSN Search Toolbar before this one for several months (that did not have the Desktop Search functionality). That earlier version included the popup-blocker functionality before Windows XP SP2 was available, so the fact that the new MSN Search Toolbar still includes it should not be a major surprise. Besides as the parent poster points out, the MSN Popup-blocker is still a benefit for users that are not running XP-SP2.

  • Another Microsoft Innovation (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:45PM (#11078011)
    "Oh, Google and Yahoo! did it? Well, then we better, too!"

  • target audience? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Poleris ( 811180 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:45PM (#11078015) Homepage
    so... who here is actually going to use this? no one?

    so that means it's targetted to a less technically-adept audience, right? how is microsoft going to make them aware of the advantages of this toolbar? package it with softwar? a giant marketing campaign?

    this thing doesn't look like it's going to be a huge success.

    • Re:target audience? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FlipmodePlaya ( 719010 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:57PM (#11078122) Journal
      I believe IE's default homepage is msn.com, and therefore the page millions of people see when they open their browser. They could simply advertise it on that...
    • I'm going to use it, along with many other people who haven't felt compelled to switch to Firefox.

      I plan to uninstall the Google Desktop Search and install this, as I'm sure it will work just as well (the search technology comes from Lookout Software) and now I'll have search term highlighting (which wasn't in SP2).

      So Microsoft releases cool utilities that will help people who won't/can't upgrade to SP2 and Slashdot pans them. I really should stop reading opinions, but morbid curiosity gets the best of

  • *sigh* (Score:4, Funny)

    by Meetch ( 756616 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:45PM (#11078017)
    I told the google execs to patent all that, but would they listen? Noooooo!

  • Desktop Search? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ikkonoishi ( 674762 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:46PM (#11078021) Journal
    Like what should have been in an OS from the start?
    • You are right, it's annoying that neither windows, nor linux, unix, solaris or osx implemented a desktop search into their OS.

    • Re:Desktop Search? (Score:3, Informative)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      Like what should have been in an OS from the start?

      I don't remember the pre win95 days, but from Windows 95 onward, MS had a search utility.

      The Windows 95 version allowed the following searches:

      • Search by file name.
      • Search a specific directory without subfolders.
      • Search a specific directory with subfolders.
      • Created or modified between $date and $date.
      • Created or modified within $x day(s).
      • Created or modified within $x month(s).
      • Restricted to $application filetype.
      • Containing $string.
      • Size is at lea

  • nice job guys (Score:4, Insightful)

    by VAXGeek ( 3443 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:46PM (#11078022) Homepage
    See, even Microsoft gets to say ME TOO sometimes.

    Future predictions for Windows features:

    Expose
    Tabbed Browsing in IE out of box
    Rendezvous
    Dashboard

  • Misc. notes (Score:5, Informative)

    by IO ERROR ( 128968 ) <error.ioerror@us> on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:46PM (#11078024) Homepage Journal
    Requires Internet Explorer and Windows 2000 or XP.

    May conflict with other pop-up blockers and cause you to not be able to click on anything at all.

    The toolbar has to be on-screen for pop-up blocking to work.

    Needs administrator privileges to install.

    Includes a plugin to search PDF files.

    Includes desktop search.

    Currently supports U.S. English only. Don't try to install it on a non-U.S. English version of Windows.

  • I.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by sPaKr ( 116314 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:51PM (#11078063)
    I for one welcome the coming of our toolbar wielding overlords.
  • Well, maybe not a dollar short, but late? For sure. Hell there are even spyware toolbars that do this stuff.

  • Well this is slashdot (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dominatus ( 796241 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:54PM (#11078091)
    For the last time, Microsoft promised features found in Google Desktop and Spotlight, years ago as part of Longhorn. There are *plenty* of cases where MS steals ideas, but in this case Google and Apple got to the market first with a product MS promised about prior.

    Yeah, I'm aware MS didn't invent the idea, but they certainly didn't steal it from Google or Apple.

    • Re:Well this is slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)

      by RzUpAnmsCwrds ( 262647 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @11:58PM (#11079018)
      "but in this case Google and Apple got to the market first with a product MS promised "

      Google perhaps, but remember:

      TIGER HAS NOT SHIPPED

      I love people who comparine a publicly-available Microsoft product to an Apple product that is not publicly available and proclaim that Microsoft is "copying" Apple.

      Repeat after me:

      * Microsoft announced WinFS *before* Apple announced Tiger

      * MSN Desktop search can be downloaded TODAY. Tiger is only available to developers.

      * WinFS IS NOT Spotlight.

  • Paul Thurrott's review (Score:5, Informative)

    by DavidLeblond ( 267211 ) <me@dCOFFEEavidleblond.com minus caffeine> on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:56PM (#11078105) Homepage
    I just checked out Paul Thurrott's [winsupersite.com] review. I love reading his stuff... first he says that Apple copied Spotlight from Microsoft (because Microsoft said that they were gonna improve search before Apple introduce Spotlight), then he shows off MSN Search which looks suspiciously like Spotlight. And if thats not funny enough, he gives us this little gem:

    And then consider that competitors such as Apple and Google tried to preempt Microsoft by announcing similar features, and yet were both unable to deliver final versions before Microsoft simply shipped the MSN Toolbar Suite.


    Thats funny... isn't MSN Search a... beta? So "final version" = "beta"? Explains a lot!

    • Re:Paul Thurrott's review (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I just took a look at this MS fanboy's site to look at his review of Windows ME. Check it:

      It's easy to ridicule Microsoft for milking the Windows 9x cash cow yet again. But the reality is that this release is exceptional, especially considering its technological heritage. Put aside your preconceptions and give Windows Me a chance. I think you'll be surprised.

      I'm sure this isn't the worst part of the review, but I can only take so much. I wonder how much MS pays this guy and his ilk to spout such drivel?

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:40PM (#11078408)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I don't need a toolbar. WHERE'S CLIPPY?! (Score:5, Funny)

    by chroot_james ( 833654 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @08:58PM (#11078129) Homepage
    I want clippy to pop up and point to my search strings in the rendered pages. I also want clippy to say, "I see you're searching with google. Would you like help using microsoft search? How about a hotmail account?"

  • Desktop Searc Comparison (Score:3, Informative)

    by fupeg ( 653970 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:01PM (#11078155)
    It will be interesting to see how this compares with Google's DS. I've been using Google's at home since it came out. I tried this one on my work computer. It definitely seemed to do its indexing faster than Google. Like Google, it only indexed when the CPU usage had been low for awhile. Search response also seemed a little better, mostly because of the results-as-you-type feature. It also seemed to do a better job finding music files, including AAC files I ripped with iTunes.

  • OSX (Score:2, Insightful)

    by be11o ( 677550 )
    It occurs to me I have been able to do this with OSX on my powerbook for years
  • I wonder how long it will be until hackers find a hole that will allow them access inside this?
  • Channel9 [msdn.com] has some good movies that demo most of the features. There's actually some cool stuff like using it as a Start->Run box, creating small macros, etc.

  • Easier BHO-hijacker searches? (Score:3, Funny)

    by dragon_imp ( 685750 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:08PM (#11078196) Homepage
    It's brilliant! I wonder if this will make the Browser Hijackers' work easier -- just call the desktop search routine in the IE Toolbar instead of writing their own code.

    Maybe they could put some more of this creativity into locking down IE and Windows. On the other hand, I make some good money cleaning systems, so there IS a silver lining. <grin>

  • 'desktop search' functionality? (Score:3, Informative)

    by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:12PM (#11078228)
    I just downloaded and installed this thing. 4.some megs for what appears to be an IE plugin. There doesn't seem to be the option to make the 'search' bar integrate with the taskbar at all (which was what my initial pre-install impression was).

    I will say that I'd half expected for there to be a minimalist appearance. Nay, there's about 10 different buttons on the bar that gets installed in IE, and I was initially pestered with 2 desktop bar-specific nags. Additionally, the damn thing defaults to searching the web, not the desktop.

    So I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes waiting for the thing to build an index. The Google Destop Search tool has about 40Mb of files on this machine, and I honestly don't think I've got much more than (if even) 1Gb of files on it. I've run a search for a couple files within the "My Documents" directory, and nothing turned up. There's no indication that the index is being built, or when it might be done, etc.

    There also doesn't appear to be must customization ability for the actual search tool, either. Just build, or rebuild the index. No "exclude directory" type stuff.

    The additional pop-ups look useful, though, for an IE user. It's all standard fare for a Firefox user, of course. Considering that most people that would likely use such a tool from MS are likely already using Firefox, I'd say chacnes are slim this sees much fanfare.

    Can't say I'm impressed. It's got the same intrusive feel of Clippy, with the nice interface of MSN Search. Not impressed in the least.
    • I have in on my taskbar just fine. There was an option at the end of the install that asked if you wanted to have it automatically enable it. Of course the IE bar should default to searching the web, and not the computer. Just as the taskbar search should default to your computer... which it does by the way. See that icon in your taskbar? Try right clicking on that to see if you can get it to index. It's probably not doing it because you're using the computer. It's not greedy with CPU. Overall, i'm not t
    • "There's no indication that the index is being built, or when it might be done, etc."

      What??? No AVI with a magnifying glass and a folder to provide the administrator or user with ... an AVI with a magnifying glass and a folder?

    • Re:'desktop search' functionality? (Score:5, Informative)

      by g0qi ( 577105 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @11:47PM (#11078991) Homepage
      I can't believe there isn't a proper response to this. Only in Slashdot will people walk right past this silently.

      I just downloaded and installed this thing. 4.some megs for what appears to be an IE plugin. There doesn't seem to be the option to make the 'search' bar integrate with the taskbar at all (which was what my initial pre-install impression was).
      You know it's more than an IE plugin. Did you even attempt to look around? Right-click your taskbar, select toobars and you'll see MSN Deskbar there. It actually integrates very nicely with the OS.

      I will say that I'd half expected for there to be a minimalist appearance. Nay, there's about 10 different buttons on the bar that gets installed in IE, and I was initially pestered with 2 desktop bar-specific nags. Additionally, the damn thing defaults to searching the web, not the desktop.

      What are you smoking? The deskbar defaults to searching the desktop by default, and so does that IE page.

      So I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes waiting for the thing to build an index. The Google Destop Search tool has about 40Mb of files on this machine, and I honestly don't think I've got much more than (if even) 1Gb of files on it. I've run a search for a couple files within the "My Documents" directory, and nothing turned up. There's no indication that the index is being built, or when it might be done, etc.

      Actually I think there's too much indication. First when it starts off it says it's starting. Then when there's too much processor use, it says it's going to wait a while so you can get done what you want to get done. When it's actually indexing, you get a nice blinking maginfying glass. And finally when it's all done, it says it's done with a messenger like popup icon. All through this process, at any time when you hover over that icon, it tells you what the hell it's doing.

      There also doesn't appear to be must customization ability for the actual search tool, either. Just build, or rebuild the index. No "exclude directory" type stuff. Come on man. Right-click that damn thing and select Internet Options...

      Not impressed in the least.
      You have an IQ of a peanut. I don't think they're going to care if you're impressed or not. Who modded you up +4?

  • >>
    and also includes features like search term highlighting in web pages, auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker."

    *** Notice ***

    Privacy Gaurd [TM] has detected four new pieces of spyware on your system!

    *** Notice ***

  • Mozilla/Linux Not Good Enough (Score:5, Funny)

    by snookerdoodle ( 123851 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:20PM (#11078280)
    Durn. It sez, "Warning! Your browser does not meet the minimum system requirements. You are recommended to use the MSN Toolbar Suite with Internet Explorer 5.01 or later."

    Guess I'll have to, ahem, "upgrade" to IE/Windows so I can get the neat toolbar. Heh heh heh...

    Mark

  • So innovative ! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Etyenne ( 4915 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:21PM (#11078289)
    This brings true desktop search to Windows (for those who don't have Google Desktop Search or similar software running already) and also includes features like
    search term highlighting in web pages, auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker.

    Wow! I wish FireFox was that innovative !

  • Competition is a good thing, obviously resulting in MS deciding it must improve its search capabilities due to pressure from Yahoo and Google. But this is NOT a new feature within Windows or in general. Sherlock anyone?

    There already is a search function integrated within Windows. Perhaps it is not as full featured as the MSN Toolbar Suite, but it is reasonably effective as long as you properly specify what you are looking for.

    Perhaps this innovation just demonstrates how limited the existing search fun
  • I happened to notice this on the Channel 9 RSS Feed: http://channel9.msdn.com/rss.aspx They have a few pieces of footage. The one I watched was about an hour long interview with one of the developers and one of those fanatical MS Project Managers. It was interesting, though I think someone with half a clue would be able to put stuff onto their HD in an organized fasion, negating the need for such a thing. I'm no MS Fanboy, but this might be of use to clueless users who save stuff willy-nilly and have no

  • MSN toolbar hides and disables the Google toolbar (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FiNnZ ( 133419 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:22PM (#11078296) Homepage
    So I decided to install this POS to test it out. The final straw for me was that it hid and disabled my google toolbar in IE. That is:
    1) shady
    2) annoying
    3) typical Microsoft

    Do not install this.

  • Microsoft is doomed. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rindeee ( 530084 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:24PM (#11078307)
    I don't say this as an anti-MS zealot or anything. It's just that I've noticed over the past two years Microsoft has gone from a market leader to an almost purely reactive organization. It's amazing to see a company go down hill that quickly.

    • Re:Microsoft is doomed. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dioscaido ( 541037 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:55PM (#11078473)
      Unfortunately, as reactionary as Microsoft is, it works. They take existing ideas, improve on it, and make a killing. The Xbox, .NET & ASP.NET, IIS6, Tablet PCs, Embedded Windows, etc... are neither original or revolutionary, but taken for their merits outside of the Microsoft specter are fantastic applications/platforms. Much like many v1 pieces of software, they had somewhat inauspicious starts, but have slowly matured into solid platforms.

      Microsoft is not doomed. Even with the, frankly, much needed, arrival of customer friendly alternatives like OSX, newer linux desktops, Firefox, etc... Microsoft continues to expand into new markets and grow. Even with some horrible embarassments like the constant e-mail viruses, their profits this year were up 11%. Why is that? Is it just because they have a monopoly? Or could it be that even with the issues companies see great value in using MS products?

      Being on the inside, I'm quite confident that things look *really* good for the future of MS. They've got quite a few fantastic features in the pipeline for existing products and quite a few new products up their sleeves. And as 'evil' as the company has been, they've realized that they will get eaten alive by Linux and other competitors if their products can't compete on a level playing field -- their monopoly will not last forever. So they have honed in on the one thing that *kills* them now -- Security. And in the past year have totally overhauled the company. All their products are being deeply analyzed for security flaws using threat modelling and other techniques. A huge pain in the ass for my team but much needed. SP2 is a step forward, as have been the patches to many desktop and server products. It sucks that it took this long for Microsoft to realize it, but they have, and the proof is in what's continually coming out of their doors in recent years.

      Anyway, enough of a rant. I'm very glad Linux is in the picture. Microsoft can't afford to be a sleeping giant, and in the end we all win -- with killer strides in the Linux Desktop, and with leaps in security in Windows servers. Competition's where it's at!
      • So, how's Palladium going?

        See, that's the thing -- regardless of how good their future projects might be, Microsoft needs to die. It's not about the quality of their software, it's about control. It seems to me that Microsoft is bent on controlling everything it gets involved in, and when the stuff it's involved in is information itself, that's unacceptable.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @10:00PM (#11078494)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Microsoft has always been a nerd company. Their books about how to program and do a project are famous. Their organisation is top. Their people are top. They don't have the fast-growing shares and organisation of the past, but they are still very attractive.

      They are weak on new ideas - they have always been. But when they take over an idea they do it with a perfectionist zeal that usually sooner or later leaves the competition in the dust.

      At the moment they have a defensive period in which they have to in

  • Argh - Moral Dillemma (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mr. Cancelled ( 572486 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:32PM (#11078358)
    The optimistic geek in me says "This is the desktop search engine you've been waiting for. It's been built by the same company that built the Windows operating system it'll be running under, so you know it'll be more optimized and stable than those other '3rd party' search engines".

    While the techie part of me is screaming "It's Microsoft Maaaan! Are you fucking nuts considering this!?"
  • Pop-up blocking is not the touted feature of this toolbar release. Also desktop search is nothing new - Google, Copernic, X1 all have stable offerings. What may make MSN desktop search popular is the fact that it allows users to search directly from windows explorer. Now when searching for files on my dektop, windows explorer is the first place users tend to look for (Users are used to pressing F3 in explorer).
    I tried my hands at the suite and on the face value, it doesn't seem special or radically differ
  • Looks alot like google search bar! Yikes... ALOT like it..

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