Windows XP Starter Edition off to Slow Start 368
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft may have started shipping its cheaper version of Windows in Asia, but getting support for its low-cost computing vision is still very much a work in progress. It seems Starter Edition has not gained much interest from vendors, nor has it generated much interest from end users." I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system.
Bad Marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe normal users don't really know/care the differences, but if you tell them A is a standard version, it has xx features, they can also buy B with x features, people tend to choose former.
However, if you tell consumers A is a standard version with x features, they can also buy a premium version with xx features, people still tend to choose the former, but some of them will upgrade to the latter simply because it is better.
Oh by the way, naming it Shorthorn is just as bad as XP Starter, MS should have the standard Longhorn with fewer features, and come out market Longerhorn as the premium.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again I suppose anything can be spun through marketing. You figure something that's been lamed-down wouldn't get much play to begin with...but I guess if you spin it as the standard version, then maybe people may bite.
Also, the whole thing was created to curb off some piracy from the Asian market. That way, people who couldn't afford software may "buy" the starter edition instead of pirating an XP home or whatnot. From this standpoint, any sale they make is a bonus against rampant piracy.
Now for those folks who would rather pirate XP than use something like Linux (which I'm sure there are a lot of), I'm not really sure how best to market to them if you're a Linux Evangelist.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
a) it comes with IIS as an optional install
b) it comes with a single-user terminal service licence (ie you can connect *to* it using remote desktop)
b) was the real selling point for me; I love being able to access my machine from work. Sure, I could futz around using ssh and so on, but my preferred mail client is GUI-based, not terminal-based.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:4, Informative)
Terminal service forwarded over a compressed SSH connection is reasonably usable over a modem, on broadband it's very, very close to being there.
(i.e. I can develop on my desktop without any noticable lag in typing)
VNC is great for an occasional site or to push a file around, terminal service can actually be used to get work done.
Err, no (Score:3, Informative)
VNC is just a lot less efficient because all it does is find ways to compress bitmaps of your screen and send them to the client.
RD on the other hand doesnt just do screengrabs, it takes the system calls to draw the screen and pushes that through to the client. Like an X session. Then the client draws the screen. That's a lot less bandwidth.
Considering there is an RD client for unix which is
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
All they have to do is offer this as a free download, or include it with a MSN CD or something, Keep it crippled and stripped like it currently is, and have a icon on the desktop to upgrage it to XP home for a nominal fee. People building PC's on the street would probably use it simply because it keeps them more legal as well as it's totally free to them, and it gives MS a chance to reap something out of the PC's that would otherwise have a pirate OS on it.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Starter Edition is NOT a cheap version of Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, people who can't even use XP Home or OSX are probably not eager to use computers at all, so the market for this is understandably minimal.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
I got XP, Office, and Visual Studio
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:2, Insightful)
Particularly when targeting this cut-down version at the piracy dominated Asian market.
Features are a second consideration to cost -- even considering how limited the Starter version is.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Funny)
I'd still just call it Bull
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't.
IIS and the added domain functionality are completely useless to them. All they want is internet and email. And maybe some yahoo games.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
Many need Administrator priviledges to update (unless you've got money to spend on serious business grade AV).
No consumer antivirus on the market today NEEDS admin privs to update the virus definitions.
The same is true for anti-spyware definitions.
And you evidently missed one main point, since you validated it in your first sentence; "when the parents want to do something new..."
I specifically referred to an average older user needing internet, email an
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
It actually is better, but that's not the point I want to make. In my view, the fact that such people are actually buying Pro really is good marketing by MS.
Many people use Home, which shows that Home is not perceived the same as Crippled or Starter. But those who want Pro "simply because it's better, even if they don't really know why it is better or why they need this betterness", a
Quite right (Score:3, Interesting)
Back when I worked at CHIMPUSA in college, i met many people like that. They had NT back office because it was 'more powerful' than workstation. When I asked them why it was better, they just stared at me blankly.
MS has a HORRIBLE nameing convention. First off, they keep
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
Sort of a tangent, but has Microsoft really done anything significant with Ballmer as CEO? When Gates had the job, they made Windows a success, created VB and the real possibility of RAD development, introduced their first 32 bit OS, began the design of
With Ballmer as CEO, Microsoft lost ground (and certainly mindshare) to Apple, issued questionable statements about TCO, introduced something as questionable as XP Starter Edition, and disbanded the IE developer group, leaving consumers with a bad experience when encountering the company's version of the the most widely used type of software application. The stock has done virtually nothing during Ballmer's tenure as well.
My guess is Microsoft needs a new CEO if it is to become an interesting company again. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ballmer step down one day after a fight with institutional investors. The big question: Who is the right person for that job?
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Linus, Duh!
With Linus's commie-granola eating hippie mentality and programming genius, and Bill's influence, money, and evil, they will be eeeennveeenceble!
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
How about Bernard Ebbers? I heard he did a great job turning Worldcom around. I wonder what he's up to these days?
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
I think Carly Fiorina is available.
It's Not the CEO, it's the Times (Score:5, Interesting)
Stock analysts have compared MS to a guy in his 40s going through mid-life crisis, wanting to act young but not having the body or mental outlook for it. I read a good article on Motley Fool a couple years ago that said MS is in stage 3 of the corporate life cycle.
Stage 1 is the Startup stage, where obviously you take a lot of risks and do a lot of innovation.
Stage 2 is the Growth stage, where you focus on expanding market share by learning how to replicate your success as cheaply and efficiently as possible, which usually means developing a culture of standardization and uniformity.
I forget the name of Stage 3, but it's where the company can't make changes fast enough to compete in the real world. At this stage it should be reinvesting its money in younger companies and branding their innovations.
Employees who produce the most new ideas -- the young, creative people with the least structured minds and the greatest ability to go without sleep -- are the ones most alienated by Stage 3 corporate culture. Microsoft's problem, according to the Motley Fool article, is that it's a Stage 3 company trying to perform like a Startup. If Ballmer's to blame for anything, it's his failure to accept that fact.
Re:It's Not the CEO, it's the Times (Score:3, Informative)
The Chen Camp was the thing that made Microsoft the defacto OS, and the reason why people don't defect to othe
Re:It's Not the CEO, it's the Times (Score:3, Informative)
Stage 1 is the Startup stage, where obviously you take a lot of risks and do a lot of innovation.
And what innovation exactly has Microsoft done? Let's see:
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:4, Informative)
Developed by Xerox, licensed from Apple, and Microsoft was on the market basically last.
2) VB
Copied from Dartmouth basic, everybody else had something at least as good, if not better(eg Hypercard)
3)32 bit OS
Old, obvious idea, Microsoft was last to market
4).NET
A copy of Java which itself was an incremetal improvement of a bunch of older stuff. Microsoft is basically last to market.
As for the stock, the one problem with being a monopoly is that after you already have 95% of the market, it is reall hard to grow faster than the market does. Windows Server is losing to Linux in the marketpalce because:
a) Windows Server is a much crapier product.
b) Windows server is much more expensive
c) Miscrosoft can't buy Linux like they have done, or tried to do every other time that they were outcompeted.
It is hard to see how any of that is Ballmer's fault. He has been dealt a really lousy hand if the metric of success is stock price, and frankly, he has been playing it really well. Any rational company attempting to maximize profit would have switched to Linux ages ago. That they haven't is a testament to Ballmer's powers of persuasion.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Informative)
Longhorn is just the codename for the next version of Windows, not the final name (atleast I hope not). Just like "Chicago" was the codename for the original Windows 95. We have yet to see what naming scheme Microsoft is actually going to market.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:2)
Other products are codenamed along other patterns...
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Funny)
I believe they're going to stick with Windows 2009.
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
They're having a dispute now with the EU over the naming of the mandated WMP-stripped version of Windows.
Microsoft (who admittedly would have a hard time making a sincere effort to market a product whose only feature is reduced functionality) wanted to call it something like "Windows XP Crippled". The EU is demanding that it be renamed something more like "Super Better Euro Windows".
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Ah dunno 'bout where you come from, son, but after we installs a "built-in limitation" on a longhorn, we calls it a "steer" . . .
hawk
Re:Bad Marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
I doubt microsoft are going to keep the development name 'longhorn' so a 'shorthorn' is off the cards totally, my guess is it'll probably be either windows 2006, or Windows.Net
it won't work (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:it won't work (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:it won't work (Score:3, Interesting)
The worst thing in the world for Microsoft will be Linux starting to be shipped on PCs as the default OS in significant numbers. Their monopoly is dependant on making "Windows = computer" in the minds of the masses. This product
Re:it won't work (Score:3, Funny)
Considering... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Considering... (Score:5, Informative)
MS has the starter edition primarily for political reasons, attempts to sell only in poor countries with high piracy rates. As the article said, consumer tend to buy hardware sans O/S and load it with a $5 pirate copy. Unless they can buy the pirate copy of started edition for $3, what incentive is there?
I don't imaging to many of us are going to cry long over MS misfortune in this case. They have plenty of fortune in other cases.
Re:Considering... (Score:2, Informative)
The culture seems to have a fairly healthy lack of respect for 'official' versions. It always struck me as somewhat at odds with the otherwise strict PAP government the proliferation of shops wlling to sell, out in the open, blatantly pirated software.
And from my travels, this seemed
In the One-Copy Country (Score:2, Insightful)
They could just sell win2000 for $5 (Score:5, Funny)
They could retro fit the XP theme into 2000 and call it XP-$5 edition
Re:They could just sell win2000 for $5 (Score:3, Funny)
You mean just like how they sell XP "as is" with no warranty of any kind implied?
Hmmm... Now this is a guess.... (Score:2, Interesting)
It all goes back to TCO... and unless you're Steve Ballmer (YEAAA GET UP!! I LOVE THIS COMPANYYYY YEAAA!!!) the TCO is definately less with Linux. And that is just the tip of the iceberg young grasshoppa.
Re:Hmmm... Now this is a guess.... (Score:2)
Now, I'm trying to figure out... how did you know it costs my company less to run Linux than Windows XP Starter Edition? Did you steal my financials? Did you interview my employees to determine their expertise? Do you know what software that we run on top of the OS? Did you do an analysis of our future software needs?
connections limited by os ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:connections limited by os ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Irony... (Score:5, Funny)
The battle goes on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The battle goes on... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The battle goes on... (Score:3)
$5 in the mall (Score:4, Interesting)
People don't like crippleware. (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that, regardless of whether users would actually need the functionality that Starter Edition doesn't have, people won't like it. People are simply averse to buying products that have been deliberately crippled. It doesn't matter whether the restrictions affect them, they feel insulted by being offered something that has been willfully hobbled.
Jedidiah.
Re:People don't like crippleware. (Score:3, Insightful)
My Geforce 6800, for example, has all 16 piplines , which is what the Ultra have, but 4 of them are turned off, and thus the vanilla 6800 is born.
Light bulbs are engineered to burn out.
There are so many examples.
But really, who would buy this when you can pick up a full version off of your local street corner for $5
Re:People don't like crippleware. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, many times the demand for the budget version is so high that the hardware manufacturer ends up disabling otherwise perfectly good chips to satisfy the demand.
Of course, this simply does not translate well to the software world, where it costs exactly as much for Microsoft to stamp out a "starter edition" CD as it does to stamp out an "XP Pro" cd. Even if Microsoft tried to make it as cheap as possible (Windows XP download edition?), they are still going to end up competing with the $5/CD street vendor.
Re:People don't like crippleware. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:People don't like crippleware. (Score:3, Interesting)
You mean like XP Home or the Office Basic/Standard editions? They seem to be quite popular.
Linux Starter Edition (Score:3, Insightful)
Same price as full edition.
Same features as full edition.
Same amount of source as full edition.
Re:Linux Starter Edition (Score:2)
Re:Linux Starter Edition (Score:2)
For the most part. The RHEL Desktop is the same as the RHEL AS, sans the server packages. The kernel is not different. All of the software that works on RHEL AS works on RHEL Desktop.
But if you're a cost concious consumer, why not just get CentOS/TaoLinux/WhiteBox et. al. for free!?!!??
Re:Linux Starter Edition (Score:2, Informative)
RedHat = one of many Linux distributions.
the_other_one could have just as easily been talking about Debian.
Losing to another version... (Score:5, Funny)
I tried to use it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I tried to use it (Score:2, Funny)
What happens when starter edition becomes infested with spyware?
"Sorry, you've reached your limit of spyware. To be able to run more than 30 pieces of spyware, you need to buy the full version. For a low price of $50(us) you can upgrade to the full copy, then you can run all the spyware you want"
Re:I tried to use it (Score:2)
much cheaper` (Score:2, Insightful)
Network connections??! (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the World of Linux, Mr Gates (Score:2)
By consumers you would mean, say, impoverished academics or people from the third world who would compare this to "Real Windows" and conclude that however good it might be and however much it might do, even unto the utmost 98% of what they need, that it would be nicer and more convenient to just pirate "Real Windows" and use that.
IOW, Windows Lite is facing exactly the same barrier that Linux is facing.
Not surprising... (Score:2, Insightful)
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
Well duh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Further, if Microsoft manages to talk OUR government into pressuring THEIR governments into cracking down more on piracy, this will probably increase sales for them a little bit. It will also increase Linux adoption a very great deal.
The dirty little secret that Microsoft has been hiding all these years is that piracy was GOOD for them in creating their monopoly. Now that they have a monopoly, however, they believe the illegal copying does them no good, so they are trying to stop it.
But in many of those foreign countries, they do not yet have a monopoly. And the concept of serving the customer has been absent from Microsoft for so long that they actually think people will buy this brain-dead crap. Instead of doing the RIGHT thing by the customer, which is dropping the price on the normal product to something the local economy can supporty, they're trying this racket to protect their home monopoly pricing.
Ultimately, it's just not going to work. They may eventually figure it out. I'm not convinced of this, however. They have been a monopoly for too long and fear losing that power more than they want to get into new markets.
It's not the connections.... (Score:2, Funny)
I disagree entirely. The lack of sales has to do with the market's prefrence of Window XP: Pirate Edition - aka XP ARRRRG. Can't beat the price in developing markets
Not just connections but running apps!!!! (Score:3, Funny)
I guess all you ever need up is a chat client, IE, and Outlook for the complete Microsoft experience.
Customer bases (Score:2, Interesting)
Restraining network connections is... (Score:2, Funny)
Erm... yeah, that must be it... (Score:2, Funny)
in Brazil (Score:5, Insightful)
Brazilian representatives refused the offer, because they didn't want poor people to have a second-class computer, as if they were second-class citizens.
With Linux, people have everything: the operating system, OpenOffice, Firefox, Gimp, programming languages and hundreds of useful software.
(BTW I think it's revolting that MS put money to create a "worsened" version of Windows, instead of improve the "real one".)
but.... (Score:2, Informative)
Why pay for a crippled version (Score:2)
The cultural stigma around using pirated goods is even weaker in a lot of the 3rd world than it is here.
Re:Why pay for a crippled version (Score:2, Funny)
Well... Think about it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's Look At This (Score:3, Insightful)
If they want to sell a "starter" edition... (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't put an arbitrary limit o
Already happened... (Score:2)
If you are running any cut of windows in the last five years and did the service packs, you probably have a neutered TCP/IP stack. Microsoft limits the number of connections - found this out the hard way when I patched a counter strike server and things went to hell in a handbasket. They cut down XP (10 connections with pro, 5 home) wi
Re:Already happened... (Score:4, Informative)
Windows XP SP2 limits the number of possible TCP connection attempts per second to 10 from an unlimited number in SP1. This can affect performance on server and P2P programs that need to open many outbound connections at the same time.
Notes - With the new implementation, if a P2P or some other network program attempts to connect to 100 sites at once, it would only be able to connect to 10 per second, so it would take it 10 seconds to reach all 100. In addition, even though the setting was registry editable in SP1, it is now only possible to edit by changing it directly in the system file tcpip.sys. Keep in mind this is a cap only on incomplete outbound connect attempts per second, not total connections. Servers and P2P programs can definitely be affected by this new limitation. Use the fix as you see fit.
When you are using your Windows XP system as a File-server of a network of system, how many systems can connect (use a shared resource ) at the same time to a Windows XP-system ?
- Windows XP Professional : 10 simultaneous file-sharing connections ( same limitation as in Windows NT4 workstation and Windows 2000 Professional ) - Windows XP Home Edition : 5 simultaneous file-sharing connections ( Windows 95,98, ME do not have a known limit of simultaneous file-sharing connections )
Source of this information : Microsoft Windows XP Professional Resource Kit Documentation Appendix G: Differences between Windows XP Home Edition, page 1539
Ok (Score:2)
- people are stupid
- third world people with little money are even stupider
What they're up against (Score:5, Interesting)
<genjzzz> there are several plazas in hk that sell only computer and video game stuff
<genjzzz> a lot of grey market stuff there
<genjzzz> and counterfeit stuff like ps accessories
<genjzzz> ps2 that is
<genjzzz> and oversea versions of consoles that have no reason to be in hk
<genjzzz> i bought my cdrs from an organized group of individuals
<genjzzz> maybe about 14 in all
<genjzzz> anyway, inside one of the plazas, they have a corner shop set up with only color photocopies of the software they have available
<genjzzz> about 300 or so
<genjzzz> they have look outs at every entrance
<genjzzz> so i walk in and find the software i want
<genjzzz> and someone take the order and give me a slip with the software's stock numbers on it
<genjzzz> then i walk to the other side of the plaza where there's a "cashier" standing around
<genjzzz> i give him the slip and the money, he tells me who to see about pick up
<genjzzz> usually a few stores away
<genjzzz> the cashier gives me a slip with a number on it, that's my receipt to get the items
<genjzzz> so the dude tells me where to pick up the software: down the street and up the stairs at some store
<genjzzz> in about 15 minutes
<genjzzz> so i wait and go up and see some guy with a bunch of cdrs in plastic bags with receipt numbers on them
<genjzzz> i give him my receipt and get my software ~
<genjzzz> so they have seperate places for choosing, paying, information, and pick up
<genjzzz> and the warehouse of the cdrs is never revealed
This isn't a case of a few guys selling cdrs to friends, it's a huge, well-established business.
Ego an obstacle (Score:2, Funny)
I'd buy it (Score:2)
Re:I'd buy it (Score:3, Informative)
Your complaints about configuration are largely subjective and I won't bother arguing arguing those points, regardless of whether they're closer to "right" or "wrong". And honestly, I can understand that Linux isn't perfect for everything, and I realize that there is some very weird hardware that probably won't ever be supported under Linux and such problems r
THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE MARKET AT WORK (Score:5, Insightful)
If MS made a small, light Windows... (Score:3, Interesting)
I really loved the 95 Plus pack concept. Why can't all the bloat be moved to a Plus pack?
Re:Wait a minute (Score:3, Informative)
That's basically it.
Re:Wait a minute (Score:3, Informative)
Remote Desktop too, I use that daily, to get into my home machine from work and on the road.
User security, File sharing and NTFS security is also missing or crippled.
I couldnt use XP Home, its missing too many features. Hell, I had get the crack for SP2 so I could run my P2P programs again!
Of course, you could get a mac and use OSX, its both simple for the average user and unix based for the power users. Having to run Cygwin on XP to get features that come standard on other systems, shows the
Re:I thought windows WAS a starter system (Score:3, Funny)
XP added the rounded edges to the top of the windows to make it safe for three-year-olds. Now Starter Edition builds on this innovation by being large (impossible to swallow), soft (so no-one gets hurt when the machine is ejected from a 10th floor window), and non-threatening ("My First Li'l Computer"). The default font will be Comic Sans.
Starter Edition. What a patronising title.
Re:I thought windows WAS a starter system (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I thought windows WAS a starter system (Score:2)
what's a tux racer?
Re:I thought windows WAS a starter system (Score:2)
Re:who would buy...? (Score:3, Insightful)
the law does not have a monopoly on right and wrong, there are thousands of things wrong with it.