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Television Media Technology

Is This the Holodeck? 206

Posted by samzenpus from the touch-the-stars dept.
WillCodeForRaisins writes "CNET News is reporting that Japan's Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications is planning to create "virtual reality" High-Definition 3-D TV which will allow you to smell and even touch objects in the 3-D space. This national research project is meant to be part of a larger vision under which Japan aims to promote "universal communication," a concept whereby information is shared smoothly and intelligently regardless of location or language. Imagine watching a football game on a TV that not only shows the players in three dimensions but also lets you experience the smells of the stadium and maybe even pat a goal scorer on the back. How are they planning to do this? Ummm... looks like wait and see."
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Is This the Holodeck? More

Is This the Holodeck?

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  • Really Virtual Reality (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nofx_3 ( 40519 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:19PM (#13359312)
    I'm guessing the technology to pull this off is more Virtual than Reality. Maybe before I die (I'm only 24) we may see this, but I'm about as hopeful as I am for the success of Cold Fusio.
     
    -kaplanfx

    • Re:Really Virtual Reality (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Imagine watching a football game on a TV that not only shows the players in three dimensions but also lets you experience the smells of the stadium and maybe even pat a goal scorer on the back.

      Imagine watching a woman on a TV that not only shows the breasts in three dimensions but also lets you experience the smells of the vagina and maybe even pat a woman on the ass.
    • ...but I'm about as hopeful as I am for the success of Cold Fusio.

      Yeah, I know what you mean.

      Their debut album was terrible.

      It's funny, laugh.

  • The End (Score:5, Funny)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP&ColinGregoryPalmer,net> on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:19PM (#13359314) Homepage
    And so the sun sets on a great nation. Farewell Japan, I will miss your innovation after you finish building this device.


    -Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]

    • Re:The End (Score:5, Funny)

      by D-Cypell ( 446534 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:45PM (#13359443)
      I will miss your innovation after you finish building this device.

      You will?

      To be honest, I suspect that I will be far too busy having hot, deviant sex with a virtual cheerleading squad to care.
      • Why don't you just go ahead and drop the $5k on a night with a group of hot prostitutes in cheerleading outfits and get the fucking fantasy out of the way!

  • immediate application (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    How long until the porn industry picks up on this one? "Touch my virtual objects, baby."

  • Yes, of course (Score:3, Funny)

    by wealthychef ( 584778 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:19PM (#13359318)
    (first post?) Yes, clearly this is literally the Holodec. And I am Captain Kirk.
    • You mean this is a hundred years off?

      (except that a wannabe male engineer in a jumpsuit a hundred years before, but at the same time a hundred years after you, got pregnant in such a device a hundred years before you at the same time? Long live Berman-Braga consistency.)

  • ahem... (Score:3, Funny)

    by spyder913 ( 448266 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:19PM (#13359319)
    until it can... function... like a real person there is no way you could get away with calling it a holodeck ;)

  • Not the Holodeck (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is a legitimate continuance of the idea of the TV. Why limit the media to two senses?

    Some other time I might mention about the limitation of bandwidth demand based on my inability to "sink" more than about 280 MB/sec.
  • information is shared smoothly and intelligently regardless of location or language

    These initiatives are usually well intentioned (Japan has a vested intererest in understanding what the hell every other English speaker in the world is talking about), well funded (Japan has more money than you think) and utterly doomed to failure.

    Wait another ten years. Move along here.

    • Well, Japan is known for these sorts of long-range projects.

      They figure even if it ultimately gets nowhere near the desired goal, the spin offs will be profitable and useful.

      Remember the Fifth Generation Computer Project? They got absolutely nowhere near what they wanted with that - but it did boost their IT industry.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:information is shared smoothly and intelligentl (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Frumious Wombat ( 845680 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @09:16PM (#13359580)
      On the other hand, this is not your Father's (or at least younger uncle's ) Japan. Japanese research, as based upon checking the names in the journals I read, has been becoming more innovative and forward thinking in the last 15 years. They've also shown no fear towards hiring American researchers who have been 'right-sized' by short-sighted native corporations (NEC picked up a lot of researchers from various NJ chemical and materials firms). As RAH once put it, "there is intelligent life in Tokyo."

      This probably won't produce a holodeck, but given CAVE technology (works), haptics (works), and some of the newer innovations such as microvoltage stimulation for motion effects, you may actually get something this time, even if it won't be the Trek 23rd century version.

      I personally look forward to virtual clothes shopping, at least for other people whom I generally have to follow around and critique during the process.
  • Smell and touch? I'm waiting for the day that I'll be able to taste it.
    • so not only are you planning on touching some electric device, you plan on having some pad being stuck in your mouth? Unless of course they make it connect to your brain and tell your brain what you're tasting. So, which would you like, the blue pill or the red pill?
    • Most of your sense of taste is in fact from smell. I saw a tea tasting expert have his nose blocked before tasting a hot drink. He couldn't tell the difference between tea and coffee.

      So, if they've got smell down, taste isn't too far away :)

      • Most of your sense of taste is in fact from smell.

        Only because it usually overwhelms the sense of taste. There is a disease called anosmia, which is the inability to smell. Anosmiacs, however, can still taste though probably not with the same subtlety.

  • Oh Wow What's That I Can Smell And Feel? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Quirk ( 36086 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:23PM (#13359339) Homepage Journal
    Why it's vaporware.
  • How would you know when you'd actually left the holodeck? Maybe "real life" is just a simulation! Maybe Slashdot is actually all just a simuation! Argh!

  • Wow (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Trip Ericson ( 864747 )
    And I, for one, welcome our holographic image overlords... Except they aren't here and the Japanese have no idea how they're going to do it. You can talk it up all you want. I want a holodeck as much as the next person (can you imagine the 'adult' selection?) but come on. So, in conclusion, I, for one, welcome our new hyper-optimistic big-talking money-receiving overlords, and remind them that as an American teen, I really really want a holodeck. ASAP.

  • No. (Score:5, Funny)

    by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:26PM (#13359355)
    This is not the holodeck.

    Flickering see-through projections and little puffs of smelly air trying to convince you that you're experiencing a real horse simply can't compete with standing next to an actual, farty horse.
    • Since your nick is ScentCone, I'll trust that you know what you're talking about...
      • Since your nick is ScentCone, I'll trust that you know what you're talking about...

        I know you won't believe this, but I wasn't even thinking about that when I chose farty horses.

        A scent cone, in bird-hunting vernacular, is that shifting puddle of scent that fans out from, say, a pheasant that's camped out in a bush or other cover. The farther away you are from the bird, the wider the pattern. This is what a bird dog encounters in the field, and usually follows the "cone" in towards the more dense sour
    • and I for one am thankful - the holographic projection will not kick your heart out through the back of your ribcage like my grandpa's old draft nag was always trying to do to anyone who was within ten feet of his back end. No flies either.

    • Re:No. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by craXORjack ( 726120 )
      Yes but add a latex rubber vibrating pouch around your member and then it's just like standing next to real farty whores.

  • Pr0n (Score:2, Funny)

    by springbox ( 853816 )
    and maybe even pat a goal scorer on the ass

    Kinky. I can see this would be a new frontier for the porn industry.

  • That'd be nice... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wyldeone ( 785673 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:30PM (#13359375) Homepage Journal
    Well, they seem to have just discribed the panacea of display and interface technologies. While a true 3d display probably could be made in the next 15 years, allowing users to physically interact with 3d objects without a huge haptics setup would be considerably more difficult, probably requiring some sort of interaction with the brain, making it think that those areas are solid. Smell doesn't seem nearly so difficult (there are already devices that will allow you to produce smells digitally), and not nearly as useful.

    So basically they said that, yeah, we'd like to make a super futuristic display device and have it ready in 15 years. Meanwhile there has been really no progress in any of these fronts. Pretty much all 3d displays are just stereoscopy, and nothing terribly interesting seems to have happened with haptics in the last five years.

    So yeah, that'd be nice, but you have to have some of the building blocks before you can make the grand vision.

    • Re:That'd be nice... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ben_white ( 639603 ) <`ben' `at' `btwhite.org'> on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:48PM (#13359460) Homepage
      Smell doesn't seem nearly so difficult (there are already devices that will allow you to produce smells digitally), and not nearly as useful.
      If the intention of the device is to immerse you in an experience such as a football game, smell is much more important than you might think. The brain's emotional and memory systems are intimately tied to the olfactory system and olfactory input. Just a fait smell of the stadium could do more for "putting you there" than higher resolution displays and even more sound channels.

      What occurs to me is that if a system like this becomes commonplace, and the majority of humans never actually go to the ballpark, then the typical smell of a stadium or ballpark becomes arbitrary (the "tasty wheat" paradox).

      cheers, ben
  • was when the author started pointing out uses for such a thing (i..e home shopping and "feeling the texture" of a handbag before buying it.)

    If they were trying to get me to invest in this, I don't think they would need to make much of a case as to whether its useful. They should concentrate on trying to convince me that they could actually implement this kind of technology. (which I doubt very much - how do you get holograms that you can feel?)
    • If you could actually feel the handbag before buying it, surely you'd just never leave the house and live entirely in your perfect virtual world. So you'd never actually even need a handbag.

      Although you might want to buy a nice virtual handbag for your avatar so you look snazzy.

      All in all, I'm still waiting for some kinda of direct brain interface rather than trying to cludge together inputs for these primitive eye, ear, hand, and nose interfaces.

  • Virtual Reality To The Next Level (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rolfwind ( 528248 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @08:36PM (#13359401)
    And the best we can come up with how to combine it with watching football/other_sit_on_your_ass passive event? :/ Shit, I mean at least imagine playing in the superbowl......

    Personally, I'd rather simulate being in space, other cool adverture, etcetera.......
  • they will make a law as to whom, what, and where you can have 'virtual reality sex' with...

    Imagine getting busted cuz you was pretending to be a VR prostitute for a while just cuz you felt sleezy...
  • What they give a damn however are all the cool spinoff techs it hopefully creates.

    It's like the Apollo project: landing on the moon is nice from a propaganda viewpoint, but ultimately a very useless thing to accomplish, at least the way they did it. The real benefit was all the tech that was developed to get there. THAT was the real payoff of the whole thing. Same with this attempt to create a holodeck.
  • I think this technology is really cool, but one part of the article that really cracked me up was the statement:

    Can you imagine hovering over your TV to watch Japan versus Brazil in the finals of the World Cup ...

    While not imposible, it is very unlikely to happen anytime in the near future. On the other hand, who knows, in 18 years, they might be actually be able to field a world cup winning team. There is usually a lag between hosting a world cup and a vitalization of a strong football program. While not s
    • Can you imagine hovering over your TV to watch Japan versus Brazil in the finals of the World Cup ...

      Haha yes. I read that and thought, "oh, well this settles it. It's definitely a fake."

      I imagine we'll see Holodecks before Japanese WC finals teams.

  • for the first Corrs concert broadcast this way!

    I could throw a virtual teddy bear on stage for Andrea! That way she wouldn't get clocked in the head with one like she did in Montreal last year (she said, "Okay, who hit me in the head? Thanks, anyway!")

    And she wouldn't have to put it in her luggage!

    Especially since the next time they come through the Bay Area, I'm gonna get her a huge stuffed gorilla - enough of this teddy bear shit! I want Jim to be able to say he always knew she'd end up in the arms of a g
  • This is just Emeril Lagasse's Smellavision
  • Now I can actually have a real virtual GF. lol
  • Their policy is to announce "it'll be done by 2020", then wait, while paying out ever more Japanese corporate welfare, and claim the credit when the inventors produce the tech sometime during the next human generation.

    Meanwhile, Toshiba's already got one. A little one, but 15 years ahead of schedule. [japancorp.net]
  • That this thing just screams of...
    (to the tune of M. Pythons Spam)

    Porn, Porn, Porn, Porn
    Porn, Porn, Porn, Porn
    Horny Porn, Wonderful Porn...

  • So ... (Score:1)

    by Post ( 113251 )
    ... will this be the same blazing success as Fifth Generation Computing [wikipedia.org]?

    Not meaning to be disrespectful, but I always love it when Big Government tells us what toys we will be playing with in ten years.

    And while I love the Holodeck as the lazy scriptwriter's friend in every other TNG episode, this is one of those technologies that has to be perfect (or at least 99.9%) to work. Total immersion in a Doom-like Game - Hell, yes. Smelling a TV set designer's idea of a football stadium while sitting on my couch -
    • "will this be the same blazing success as Fifth Generation Computing?"

      That's exactly what they want it to be - a stimulation to their industry - not a goal they expect to achieve directly.
  • China is rapidly developing their 'reverse tachyon' technology, to keep the Japanese in check.

  • Pay per view - think about it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bruciferofbrm ( 717584 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @09:19PM (#13359587) Homepage
    This brings a whole new 'angle' on the pay per view concept.

    Imagine this (seriously - think about it (it may make you rich)): The amount you pay would get you a better veiw of the action. X amount puts you at the 300 foot level. Y gets you on the 50 yard line, Z puts you on the field.

    Football (despite its popularity) isn't the best choice for this. I think motion sickness for all the camera changes would be a bit much.

    However, auto racing is a good choice. It already enjoys multi camera (car) angle (one per channel) access on cable providers. Now you could really be in the car with the driver.

    Golf is another logical possibility. Stand there at the tee. See the swing and watch the ball go.

    Umm.. Swimming, or diving shows may prove a bit of a hard sell. Think of it this way: Ever watch a show with an under water segment (Posiden adventure?) - did you hold your breath, or become very concious of your own breathing while the poor actor seeming had to swim much too far?

    Pron: Yeah what ever. Probably the first market segment to leverage the technology, but probably not to its true abilities. But there will be a lot of sales.

    Which brings us to the next question: What do you think the band width requirement is going to be. Will your puny little HD-DVD (or BluRay) be enough to drive that kind of display?
    • The magic of electronic data delivery (vs the real world) is that physical space is of no consequence.

      Charging more to be "next to the tee" while electronically witnessing a golf tourney wouldn't make any more sense with a virtual reality system than it does with TV coverage today. It's not like a finite number of people can be "next to the tee." In real life, ringside seats are very valuable precisely beacause of physical space limitations.

      On TV today, everyone gets "the best seat in the house." Wit

  • Smack that ref (Score:4, Funny)

    by Fiz Ocelot ( 642698 ) <baelzharon@gmailQUOTE.com minus punct> on Friday August 19, 2005 @09:19PM (#13359589)
    If this lets me smack a ref for a stupid call then sign me up!
  • ...a concept whereby information is shared smoothly and intelligently...

    A holodeck would be, at best, sharing experience. Sharing information (especially "intelligently") is, in some ways, a more durable puzzle... if only because each new instance requires a new solution...

  • Anyone want to take odds on the WTO stepping (Score:3, Funny)

    by brokeninside ( 34168 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @09:22PM (#13359599)
    The Japanese government essentially just announced that they were going to subsidize the porn industry. How long will it take for pornographers in the rest of the world to sue?

  • Which brings up the question (Score:5, Funny)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @09:24PM (#13359607)
    Why are the Japanese years ahead of the rest of the world in the field of virtual reality porn? Or does anybody honestly beleive this technology has other applications? If we had a president with vision, he would immediately declare it the highest priority mission of the United States to close the VR porn gap! Instead, all he does is promise a mission to mars... sigh.
  • Researchers are looking into ultrasound, electric stimulation and wind pressure as potential technologies for touch. Such a TV would have a wide range of potential uses.

    It has really only one use that most users would care about, and for those users, there are also low-frequency ("vibration") versions available.

    Other than that, I think most people are grateful that they don't smell the smells at a football game with a zoom lens.
  • The introduction of the Holodeck on Star Trek ruined the show. No Captain would have allowed one of those on there after the first time the damn thing took over the ship or trapped most of the crew in some bizare setting.

    If the holodeck becomes a reality (pun intended) once it comes down in price where almost everyone can have one, similar to computers, all high tech countries in the world will collapse within a few years. No one will want to leave the holodeck to do anything real. Services will start
    • dude the holodeck was kept cause its cool...and people would jump ship out of insanity for being out in the dead of space too long. there's no open air, it's a giant self destructing coffin....with a big monitor

  • "A Billion Yen" (Score:3, Informative)

    by sexyrexy ( 793497 ) on Friday August 19, 2005 @11:00PM (#13359946)
    "The ministry plans to request a budget of more than 1 billion yen to help fund the project" More than a billion yen! That could pay for... the airfare of bringing in specialists to work on the project. A billion yen is 9 million dollars. If the US President said he was committing 9 million to developing a tacticle holographic television it'd be the biggest joke since "I did not have sexual relations..." Are we forgetting this is in a country where people regularly pay more than a million in their currency for a car?
  • Didn't RTFA (of course), but it sounds like another one of those over-ambitious ideas that the Japanese are known for. Don't get me wrong - I think this kind of imagination is what propels us into the future. However, what they're talking about is obviously beyond our current capabilities.

  • OMG, yes! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Rodong ( 906804 )
    Because our computing experience cannot be complete unless we get to smell and taste goatse.cx
  • welcome our new Virtual Reality overlords, what with their ability to virtually enslave me while smelling the virtual stink of my virtual slavepin....
  • HDTV in 3D. That's volumetric pixels. 1080 x 1920 x 1080? That's 1000x as much information coming at you. 2.2 gigapixels/frame x 30fps = 66 gigapixels/sec in 24? bit color means 200 gigaBYTES/sec of bandwidth. Guess I need to start saving up for a new router...

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