Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? 255
faria24 writes "For the past decade, Microsoft has largely ignored the Web as an emerging platform for application development with fears that it could render Windows obsolete. But that will all change next week, as Microsoft unveils a new strategy for transforming its Web properties into an open platform for developers. As part of its new 'Web 2.0 Platform' strategy, Microsoft will expose application programming interfaces, or APIs, for MSN Search using SOAP. MSN Virtual Earth, Desktop Search and MSN Messenger will all be opened up for outside developers to extend." Coverage on CNet as well. From the article: "Microsoft's online rivals, notably Google and Yahoo, already provide the hooks that let third-party Web developers write applications that tap into their Web services, such as search and mapping. Because these Web applications rely on a Web browser, they can, in theory, run on any operating system.
Microsoft, meanwhile, has always drawn third-party developers to Windows. But even with its commitment to Windows, analysts said, Microsoft needs to more fully address the growing popularity of online Web development. Having a healthy ecosystem of third-party add-on products helps drive traffic to Web properties. "
Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:4, Funny)
"Can Google Out-Microsoft Microsoft?"
Re:Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed. I worked for several years in MSN, starting from the beginning. I have to say that during the entire time I was there, I didn't see much strategic thinking going on. That's not to say that we didn't have some really good people, but Microsoft isn't a service organization. Microsoft is a product organization, and you just can't "productize" the Internet no matter how hard you try.
The biggest reason that Microsoft can't compete with Google is that it has become a big, bloated bureaucracy. Why do you think that all the top-flight talent is leaving? Sure, money has something to do with it, but it also has a lot to do with the fact that Google is a hot-bed for new ideas and actively fosters innovation. Microsoft, on the other hand, has become very risk adverse, so it's not willing to stake its future on new ideas. That's why we're seeing incremental changes in Vista. It's why Microsoft is reluctant to use open schemas in its Office products. The problem is that when you adopt this kind of thinking, you slowly rot from the inside out.
So I guess what I'm saying is that Microsoft is not a real threat to Google. The biggest threat to Google is its own hiring practices. As long as they hire people whose job it is to contribute then they'll be ok. The second that they start hiring "strategic thinkers" and "efficiency experts" then they're in trouble.
Re:Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:2)
Uh oh. [slashdot.org] Too late.
Re:Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft, on the other hand, has become very risk adverse, so it's not willing to stake its future on new ideas.
You sound like there was a time when Microsoft was really innovating. Was it?
One more thing. (Score:3, Insightful)
wake me up when MS thows away DRM and immunizes people against their own patent portfolio.
-------------Begin License---------------
Microsoft Corporation Technical Documentation License Agreement for the specification code named "Metro"
READ THIS! THIS IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN MICROSOFT CORPORATION ("MICROSOFT") AND THE RECIPIENT OF THE ABOVE REFERENCED MATERIALS, WHETHER AN INDIVIDUAL OR AN ENTITY
competition (Score:5, Interesting)
Whether that will happen or not, however, is another question.
Re:competition (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:competition (Score:2)
In my opinion there is nothing that Microsoft can do in order to stop Google. Absolutely anything. (If we were living in the Starcraft World they could try to rush the Googleplex [wikipedia.org] though)
Re:competition (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:competition (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:competition (Score:5, Funny)
Re:competition (Score:2)
Re:competition (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:competition (Score:3, Interesting)
I faintly remember when everyone thought that Barnes and Noble would kill Amazon in online booksales. Amazon diversified quickly and started selling kitchen sinks and massagers in order to stay in business and have consequently thrived.
Tivo hasn't diversified, and they're probably gonna die because of the installed base.
Google still only makes money one way, and microsoft is one hell of a machine to take on.
microsoft can apply slow
Re:competition (Score:2, Insightful)
Your grammar - ouch! (Score:3, Insightful)
That's my piece. Thanx
Re:Your grammar - ouch! - I agree (Score:3, Funny)
Re:competition (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:competition (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:competition (Score:2)
Most of the time, an API is platform-locked; once you learn an API on one platform, there's just about no way to use it on another. Unix tried to deal away with this in a lot of ways (POSIX..), but the truth still holds true today that when you move platforms, you'd better be prepared to relearn everything;
Re:competition (Score:2)
They've endeavored to make IE7 standards-compliant, they hired a guy to work with Linux, they've finally started addressing the security concerns, etc.
It wouldn't be too hard for me to believe that they're also changing their company policy to be less harsh on open standards and open source. Well, with the exception of the Balmer monkey I could believe it.
Re:competition (Score:2)
Re:competition (Score:2, Interesting)
You have to be JOKING!
Excuse the capitals but that's a hilarious suggestion.
Their company policy is to benefit Microsoft shareholders. Open source and open standards are not directly conducive to growing Microsoft's bottom line.
They make their big money on Windows and Office. These are the archetypal definitions of closed, proprietary platforms that become de facto "standards" through their sheer dominance.
Microsoft is not going to risk its bottom line so do not expect much to change in future.
They end
Re:competition (Score:2)
"As part of its new 'Web 2.0 Platform' strategy, Microsoft will expose application programming interfaces, or APIs, for MSN Search using SOAP"
Oh, and Firefox has its own standards compliance issues (as much as I love it).
Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly how is introducing web services months after Google has introduced them a possibility of out-Googling Google?
Wouldn't Microsoft have to actually come out with a web tool that people use that Google didn't already have to even have the possibility of that description?
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope. Its a matter of trying to cut off each other's revenue stream. If MS takes eyeballs from Google products then Google receives less advertising revenue (which is their bread and butter revenue stream). If Google can produce pivotal applications that don't require MS OS or applications to run then MS (in theory) would receive less revenue from selling operating systems and applications (which is their bread and butter revenue stream).
This looks less like a battle of "what can I build to make more money" than "what can I build to fark my competition."
Great Question, Here's the Answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Great Question, Here's the Answer (Score:5, Informative)
Google, on the other hand, has the lead, and the money, to fight Microsoft in this market. Their recent IPO has freed up billions of dollars to throw around as they see fit, and I'm fairly certain they are going to be expanding their bases of operations quickly. Alliances in SIP (VoIP), quick competition with Google Talk, and Gmail, and Google Earth's rapid media acceptance (see Hurricane Katrina for details) are all ways Google hopes to stay superior.
This won't be a battle like Netscape vs Microsoft. This time, the software isn't tied to Microsoft's infrastructure in any way (see the prevalance of cross platform tools from Google; they haven't completely full compatibility, but I insure you that they are working on it feverishly). Pair this with extreme competition from Microsoft in market dominance (Apple's catching up fast with the recent iPod successes), and you start seeing a really pissed off Microsoft.
It seems at this point, Microsoft, as well as News Corp, along with EBay, are all feeling the on-coming war, and are sweeping the playing field clear, buying up their places on the battlefield so that Google and Microsoft won't destroy them. See the recent purchase/intent to purchase GameSpy, Skype, etc.
This is war, and a war that Google can fight. Don't expect them to roll over and die like Netscape did.
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:5, Funny)
Wait for us, we're the leader!
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:5, Informative)
I'm glad Google is around because it woke up MSN, who was pretty lame and coplacent. And it definitely looks like they are gunning for Google, and have tons of resources all focused on that.
As long as both google and msn keep improving their services, we win, so god speed to both companies.
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as both google and msn keep improving their services, we win, so god speed to both companies.
As long as no one puts the other out of business. (which seems unlikely at this point, but still...)
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:5, Interesting)
That being said, Microsoft's revenue stream is entirely Windows and Office, thus the need now to diversify, and quickly, as their upcoming offering is about to be outclassed in every way by the competition.
The game isn't "who gets there first", nor is it "who has the most traffic". The game is entirely "who makes the most money off people". MSN's artificial lead could be strapped from Windows all together with an anti-trust lawsuit ("Microsoft is competing unfairly by strapping MSN to the operating system" "But we can't remove it!!!!1 It provides core functionality!!"...) As for hotmail, you heard it here first: hotmail has been dying for a long time, and as for my "proof", every hotmail user I know shy of one has moved to Gmail (and she stays with hotmail because it's tied to MSN).
By the way, Myspace is owned by News Corp, who also recently bought GameSpy; they're trying to move these services out of the way of the oncoming Google/Microsoft war, as if either got into those positions, it is likely the surrounding businesses like Myspace would be absolutely slaughtered by the competition (anyone using myspace can tell you why).
This is war, the way that the web has been from the beginning. Just because Microsoft won some early battles doesn't mean that this war is over by a long shot; it's been brewing in the back alleys and corners all over the internet. And now (in the eyes of the Geek) the benevolent Google verses the evil Microsoft battle is going to be dominated by a player who's eye is more on helping the community than destroying it.
Can't wait for Google's reaction come next week.
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:2)
Do you have any tangible data to back this up? If not
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:2, Insightful)
The summary is wrong anyway. Microsoft hasn't ignored the Web as an emerging platform. They've specifically targetted it, controlling standards with a non-standards compliant browser, breaking Java to keep people dependent on Windows, and now introducing the Avalon/.NET APIs to attempt to deliver applications through Internet Explorer. All to keep
to Google: (Score:2)
So, to out-Google Google would probably be just to introduce a knockoff of a Google service months after even Google got around to doing it.
It seems like Microsoft is heading down this track. So the description of out-Googling Google makes sense to me.
Re:to Google: (Score:2)
altavista (Score:3, Informative)
I know Google when they came on the scene were far better than everyone else, they really did a much better job.
But that doesn't mean that worthwhile search tools didn't exist before Google.
I really should have put something after my knock-off comment in my post. Google has done some great sites. Few original ones, but a couple great ones. But still, that doesn't mean MS can't come in even later and out-do Google. And before you spout
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:2)
Re:Too Little Too Late != Out-Googling Google (Score:2)
-everphilski-
The question should be (Score:2)
Can Microsoft imitate google properly ?
So can Microsoft muscle into this market .
Re:The question should be (Score:2)
And, if Microsoft is successful in out-Googling Google will they be able to do that running Windows on the server side? Or will they have to come up with some other solution?
Marketing bullshit (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, "Web 2.0" is a buzzword that originated outside of Microsoft and typically refers to "next gen" web technologies, like web services, AJAX, etc. Google it for more information.
Still stupid, vague to the point of meaningless marketing, but in this case, it's not Microsoft's fault, they are just using the same terminology as a lot of other people.
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:2)
Not only that, but didn't they steal the Web 2.0 moniker from something else, like W3C?
Same idiots that brought you DOT NET? (Score:2)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp [snopes.com]
obligatory (Score:3, Informative)
http://tinyurl.com/65ssc [tinyurl.com]
or Coralized:
http://tinyurl.com/as4k8 [tinyurl.com]
Re:Marketing bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
Intelligent, forward-looking politician works for years to fund and shepherd through a new technology before anyone else has ever even heard of it
I don't know who to blame -- the character assassins who managed to get an incompetent leader elected over a competent one, or the American public who fell for it, twice. But either way, our nation is a poorer place for it.
I wonder when (Score:2)
Then we'll have Googlesoft or Microogle to complain about.
Re:I wonder when (Score:3)
Re:I wonder when (Score:2)
Re:I wonder when (Score:2)
you linux sycophants don't get it (Score:2, Funny)
Vint Cerf is an MSFT hater. At MCI he led the investment into Netscape.
John Doerr (http://investor.google.com/board.html [google.com]) is on google's board and was on netscapes.
There is a struggling conspiracy that believes MSFT's capitalist successes are unfair and they must be killed.
Or, there is a natural balance to the world in which MSFT forces innovation through challenges, but overcomes those challenges through its own innovation.
MSFT's brainpower and cash reserves dwarf google's resources.
Re:you linux sycophants don't get it (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft, the most innovative company in history is about to embark on a bold new way of doing things. They are going to open up the APIs for their search engine (that noone uses), their messenger service (that noone uses), and their Desktop search service (which surprisingly, nobody uses).
Oh wait a sec, this just in... they're going to open up the APIs for Windows users only.
Of course, Google and Yahoo, whose services people do use, opened up their APIs sometime around 1997.
--- VERY IMPORTANT NEWS - VERY IMPORTANT NEWS ---
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
BTW, Google hadn't received that name yet and I know of no "public API" back for Backrub or Yahoo in 1997. Those were the days when a Javascript controllable HTML DOM was part of everyone's wet dreams.
Furthermore, it's quite hard to make SOAP Windows-only.
So, nice trolling, I was stupid enough to get hit.
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
"noone" is not a word. No one should be writing it.
--- ALSO VERY IMPORTANT NEWS ---
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
PR from the Redmond chair throwing contest? (Score:2, Funny)
In a word: No (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft is unlikely to make a REALLY significant dent in, what so far has been rather foreign territory, breathless news blurbs notwithstanding.
The Google Iceberg (Score:5, Insightful)
But what about all the other stuff that's still hidden, that's in the Google pipeline? You could call it the Google Iceberg. The cool stuff that is yet to come. It looks like Google is pretty good at staying ahead by innovating.
As always, Microsoft is claiming to innovate, while actually just copying what they find out there in the marketplace already. They don't move the ball forward, they just keep the pressure on.
Does anyone over at MS know what they're doing? (Score:2)
Out-google Google? Unless the following happens (Score:5, Interesting)
Here it is:
M$ MUST make sure that the services Google and Yahoo provide at present do not work very well with IE. So in this situation if one wants to use Google's virtual Earth, it becomes impossible making this individual resort to Microsoft's offerings.On the other hand, Google could fight back this way: It could create a utility that makes the dependence on IE for most of Microsoft's services irrelevant. I am still looking for a way to remove IE from my Windows box in a sane and neat way.
If Google can create such a utility, I can see most users removing IE. The trouble at present is even after making Firefox the default browser for example, looking at some link in some applications would still "call" IE. I guess this young man called "DVD Jon" can help here.
Re:Out-google Google? Unless the following happens (Score:2)
You can't remove IE, it is tied to the OS. Except for the OSX version. And the unix version.
And you need IE for little things like windows update and braindead websites that only work in IE.
Can you even just delete the IE icon off the desktop in XP? They used to lock a few icons on the desktop requiring reg hacks.
Re:Out-google Google? Unless the following happens (Score:2)
Re:Out-google Google? Unless the following happens (Score:2)
Re:Out-google Google? Unless the following happens (Score:2)
Virtual Earth is owned by Microsoft. You mean "Google Earth". And Google Earth is a separate application, so it has nothing to do with IE or Firefox. Did you mean Google Maps?
Even then, Google just releases a new version of Google maps that sniffs the new versio
Goodbye Google! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Goodbye Google! (Score:2)
Awww, another new strategy? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Awww, another new strategy? (Score:2)
Re:Awww, another new strategy? (Score:2)
Of course, if your job forces you to use Microsoft APIs... I pity you.
Two references to Google... (Score:3, Funny)
Whew (Score:4, Funny)
Headline (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not trying to rant, but...
Normally, BetaNews rips stuff right off the front page of Slashdot, but this time it looks like it went the other way around. I mean, was it really necessary to copy the exact headline, word for word, from the linked BetaNews article [betanews.com]?
Microsoft cost me months of lost life. (Score:3, Insightful)
I just spent the last two weeks building a replacement Microsoft's ADO/DAO in our product using sqlite. Why? Because on rolling out we discovered that ADO would fault on half the machines, and DAO would fault on the other half of the machines. Weird error messages. Strange unrelated machine problems. Both implementations ran fine in the lab, but in the real world they would fail. Who has time for that?
So we ripped out both and replaced them with a brand spanking new sqlite version. Wasted a lot of programming and testing time, but it was the only way to make sure that our program would work in the real world. In a similar vein, we had to remove all the Microsoft calendar controls from our product because some of the machines in the real world would fault. Working around Microsoft's problems is not what programmers should be paid for.
Now, given a choice between Google's products, which are generally stable and just work, and Microsoft's API which will potentially lead to a lot of uncomfortable surprises on rollout, which would I choose? It's a no brainer.
No thanks, Microsoft, but you had your chance. When we got to the point that we had to set a policy to minimize the use of Microsoft controls as much as possible you lost any chance of ever getting us back in the fold.
Re:Microsoft cost me months of lost life. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft cost me months of lost life. (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft cost me months of lost life. (Score:2)
Finally, your frustrations are justified, only for those developing web interfaces. I know there are a lot of you guyz out there, and I really understand your problems. And
Not quite true (Score:3, Funny)
What about ASP.NET or IIS?
Web services for MSN Search ... who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as Google offers the most relevant search results, for free, what would be the incentive to use MSN Search? Unless Microsoft pays developers to use their crappy search engine, there is no incentive.
Re:Web services for MSN Search ... who cares? (Score:2)
And 90% of Microsoft users won't/don't know how to/won't be able to change it.
Microsoft's desktop monopoly means they don't have to be the best - they only have to be just barely good enough, and they win the war with the next round of upgrades to their existing products.
Re:Web services for MSN Search ... who cares? (Score:2)
Re:Web services for MSN Search ... who cares? (Score:2)
The constant refrain of (IE will default to it) doesn't change the fact that this strategy has already failed.
Web circa 1996 (Score:2)
New stuff from MS more cross-browser compliant (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I've noticed what seems to be some young (and new) blood on the MS campus that is definitely very interested in putting up a valiant fight within blogging and maps and other stuff. Virtual Earth, while coming second and with slightly older maps in some area than Google Maps, actually allows click zooming and scroll wheel zooming in FIREFOX! I heard Scoble during an interview specifically mention stuff like that and there is a much greater openness among their developers about the competition and increasing a userbase no matter what. BTW, Google Maps still don't zoom in Firefox using the scroll wheel, a real pain...and printing from Google Maps only seems to work if I use print screen.
Also, MS is saying "bring on the hackers" by offering $1000 in a contest to build the best plugin on top of Virtual Earth. Furthermore, MS is offering the Virtual Earth maps for free for commercial use. Furthermore, the virtual earth is integrated with the MySpace bloggin. Meanwhile, Google has tried to squash some commercial ideas built on their mapping, and there is no integration between their gmail, virtual earth, and blogging capabilities.
However, what I find cool is that there are some devs who are creating a bridge so that plugins can work on Google Maps AND Virtual Earth, which is awesome for increasing compatability between mapping services. Check out the video here [msdn.com] (warning...requires WMP). Or you can read up about how to code it up here [viavirtualearth.com].
New slogan: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why would we want to lock-in to Microsoft again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Around the turn of the century, the phrase everyone was spewing was "whoever controls the browser, controls the Web." Microsoft proved that this isn't true. They had a near-monopoly on browsers for years, and they blew it. They just let the browser stagnate while they went back to focusing Bill Gates' pet projects, like tablet computing and putting a database in the filesystem. Now Google is finally realizing the Netscape dream of turning the web into a pervasive computing platform, and suddenly Microsoft has to go into react mode again. Microsoft does not innovate. Microsoft reacts. And Microsoft gets pissy whenever someone other than them starts succeeding in the technology world. They're a bunch of spoiled brats. Is it any surprise that those of us who are building the next generation of applications are hesitant to go anywhere near Microsoft? [citadel.org]
Doubtful (Score:2)
It is unlikely Microsoft will "out-Google" anyone. Microsoft is better at using dirty tricks like well poisoning, and they do have a lot of monopoly power to abuse. Never underestimate the ignorance and ambivalence of their customers either.
Can Microsoft Out-Google Google? (Score:2)
But that doesn't mean that they won't eventually manage to "f**kin' kill Google" (hey, Ballmer's alleged words not mine.)
Re:Question Translated: (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes - most of the Windows API is open which is how most write programs for that platform.
Who every thought that Google would ban CNET because CNET used Google to do research on Google Execs?
Things Change.
Re:Question Translated: (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has also been caught, repeatedly, including unpublished operations in its kernels and its software that do specific functions much faster than the published API for those functions. It's fraudulent and deceitful and monopolistic to do so, since it's like having a secret back door for your airline that lets your customers skip going through customs, thus making your overall trip time much shorter.
Re:Question Translated: (Score:5, Informative)
They did't ban anyone, you can still search CNET on google [google.com] and it will work. They will just not make press announcements to them. This is a very different thing.
Re:.NET (Score:2)
Such confusion will never happen with Web 2.0!