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Roadkill on the Convergence Highway 215

Posted by Zonk from the so-close-yet-so-far dept.
Duke Weber writes "Microsoft sometimes gets it right after three tries. Not so with Windows Media Center 2005. You do get a dancing Scooby Doo. You don't get much Media." From the article: "As a DVR, one tuner was just OK, with a second tuner working, it was still OK, provided you weren't too picky about mouths moving at the same time words came out. Out with the snazzy Realtek integrated sound on the ASUS-A8V motherboard. In with an Audigy 2ZS to lessen the load on the AMD 64 3000+ processor. More gadgets. That cured the synch. The picture still was no where close to a vintage Tivo. But it does keep track of the programs, important with a terabyte of disc."
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Roadkill on the Convergence Highway More

Roadkill on the Convergence Highway

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  • Issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:06PM (#13876060)
    The biggest issue with media centers is a very practical one: tuning. How do you tune channels from cable or satellite providers when a set top box provided by cable or satellite provider is essentially required? The "IR blaster" solution is inelegant at best, and gets even more inelegant if you want more than one tuner. That was Microsoft's biggest miscalculation in the media center strategy.

    Conversely, the cable and satellite providers themselves will be able to provide one device that can record all of your digital content, AND acts as your set top box, AND has multiple tuners AND handles SD, HD, digital, and analog, AND doesn't require a large initial expenditure: most providers will give you all of this for under $10/month, in a turnkey solution that "just works". Granted, it's not as flexible and capable as your own box, but most will accept this tradeoff. Most won't even know there *was* a tradeoff.

    But what of all your other media? Your music, your movies, your videos? Indeed, Apple's media center strategy is a novel one: it includes all traditional media center functions except perhaps the primary one: television recording. Instead, it's taken the bold next step: bypass the tuning issue and the recording issue entirely by bypassing the cable and satellite operators entirely, and delivering the content directly to you. The cable operators will still provide a service: it will just be bandwidth, and not content.

    • Re:Issues (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CuteVlogger ( 925400 )
      I spent a lot of time shopping for the 'right' media PC, and came to a different conclusion: the 'media appliance' concept (with DLink still leading the way with their DLINK DSM-320) beats both set-top-boxes from the media providers and the pc-solutions provided by Microsoft, Sony, et. al. The DLink separates content from delivery - it's just there to play and present, and it does it well, wirelessly, without a hassle. It's not a DVR, but perhaps future versions will be. You're right, though - with cable p

    • Re:Issues (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kebes ( 861706 )
      Good post, I agree with basically everything you say.

      The "IR blaster" solution is inelegant at best

      You are right, it is inelegant. And yet, it works. I have a MythTV with an IR blaster so that it can change channels on the set-top box whenever it needs to. At first, this was really annoying. If you're watching live TV and you want to change channels, there is a significant lag since your command is routed through the computer, then the IR blaster, then the set-top box changes channels, and finally th

    • Re:Issues (Score:3, Interesting)

      by whoever57 ( 658626 )

      How do you tune channels from cable or satellite providers when a set top box provided by cable or satellite provider is essentially required?

      Tivo has solved this for some cable receivers: my Tivo is has a connection that plugs into the back of my cable box and is able to control the channel very effectively. Of course, the problem then becomes wanting to record 2 shows at the same time, but this happens so rarely that I don't really care! Even if the 2 shows are on at the same time, there is usually a re

    • The biggest issue with media centers is a very practical one: tuning.

      The second biggest issue is pretty much the same: volume.

      I have my XP MCE PC connected to a home theater system via SP/DIF digital. Alas, the XPMCE volume controls only work on the PC master volume, and then only if the output is PCM audio. So if I'm watching a DVD or something with a surround soundtrack, the volume controls don't do anything.

      Nor does the 'IR blaster' hack do any good. The IR transmitter only works for changing channels
      • The standard Microsoft Media Center remote is programmable -- at least for a few of the buttons. Vol +/- happens to be two of them. I have my MCE hooked up to my reciever via S/PDIF, and the MCE remote's volume changes the volume on the reciever just fine.

    • CableCard (Score:5, Interesting)

      by wiredlogic ( 135348 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:44PM (#13876362)
      CableCard will fix this problem when it becomes mandatory and ubiquitous.
      This is the one good thing about the FCC overstepping its bounds and mandating hardware support (unlike the broadcast flag).
    • Three letters QAM: I presently get my Cable TV without a Cablebox. It wasn't really an intentional decision on my part (I hate to admit this, so maybe I will delete that bit when I finish). I was rebuilding the familyroom and the new Samsung HL-R6168W was delivered too early:). I am paying my Cable company for "Basic" and "Family" and was able to receive them in Analog. So I had to test the new TV within 30 days (30 day return no questions) so I just plugged it into the Coaxial and set it to "find" all the

      • Actually... (Score:3, Informative)

        by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) *
        Many cable operators, such as Charter, encrypt all digital channels. Including non-premium channels.

        So while this may work for you, it doesn't work for most people (and probably won't work for you in the future).

        If I thought this, or even CableCard, was a solution, I would have mentioned it.

        • Re:Actually... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by adsl ( 595429 )
          The hidden value proposition of analog cable has, for a long time, been that one did not need the expense of a cablebox for additional TVs (to receive non encrypted service one was already paying for). I doubt that analog will be encryped now as the future is digital (though I find the digital sound WORSE than analog and sometimes more difficult to hear speech). IF ALL digital becomes encrpted as a way for cable companies to MAX out their Revenue (extras like a Cablebox and remote etc etc for every TV) the

    • The cable operators will still provide a service: it will just be bandwidth, and not content.

      Trouble is that in many geographic areas, the local cable monopoly won't sell you bandwidth (for your computer) unless you're also buying access to content (for your TV), especially in those areas where the local telephone monopoly doesn't offer a competitive solution. Cable companies and phone companies get around anti-tying [wikipedia.org] laws by claiming a high price (e.g. $100/mo) for high-speed Internet and then adding a

  • Easier than Myth (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fishybell ( 516991 ) <.moc.liamtoh. .ta. .llebyhsif.> on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:07PM (#13876068) Homepage Journal
    ...as long as it's easier than MythTV to set up and cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 years, I'll do it.

    • Re:Easier than Myth (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:22PM (#13876195)
      cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 years

      Hmm...

      DirecTV with Tivo: $0 + $4/month = $480 over 10 years.
      Standalone Tivo: $50 + $299 = $349 over 10 years.
      Complete Windows Media Center PC: $800+ and probably won't be supported for 10 years and will require upgrades
      Build your own Media Center PC: $150 (software) + $300+ (minimum, for PC with sufficient specs) + $30 (remote) + $50 (cables) + $??? (who knows what else) = $lots. (And it still won't be supported in 10 years)

      Good luck with that cheaper part.

      • Re:Easier than Myth (Score:3, Informative)

        by fishybell ( 516991 )
        Add in the price per hour of disk space available.

        40 hours for $350 w/ Tivo.
        300 hours for $500 w/ Tivo.

        My setup:
        300+ hours for < $300 w/ Windows

        How? Had almost all of the hardware already.

        Also, if I need more space, just slap in more hard drives. No "modding" required.

        • How? Had almost all of the hardware already.

          Got it for free, did you?

          Also, if I need more space, just slap in more hard drives. No "modding" required.

          So, opening the case, putting in a drive, formatting it, and closing it back up is different from what you have to do with TiVo how again? Sounds like the exact same process to me.

          Plus you still have to deal with the fact that upgrades aren't free like they are with TiVo. What do you do when you have to pay for Media Center 2007 and 2009? What will your total

    • Re:Easier than Myth (Score:5, Insightful)

      by merreborn ( 853723 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:29PM (#13876243) Journal
      ...as long as it's easier than MythTV to set up and cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 years, I'll do it.

      Decent Tivo box: $200
      Lifetime Subscription: $300

      If you can get a windows media center box for $500, lifetime service included, then by all means...

      Even with a 5 year lifetime, Tivo ends up costing you under $10/month.
      • None of these are sold in the UK, and only Sky has their own box which is linked to their subscription service. A second hand Tivo and subscription from when they were sold in the UK can run to many hundreds of pounds on Ebay, much more than a WMC system.

  • To carry an analogy... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tktk ( 540564 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:10PM (#13876089)
    the only roadkill I see on the convergence highway will be the consumers.

  • This line says it all... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Boap ( 559344 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:14PM (#13876119)
    That is the final curse of Media Center. Even if it worked, it would still be Windows .

  • Hardware & driver problems (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SoCalChris ( 573049 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:14PM (#13876124) Journal
    I've never used Windows Media Center, but almost all of the problems he's complaining about sound like hardware problems, driver issues, or he chose the wrong hardware to begin with.

    I have a feeling that if he had chosen his equipment better, or done a little more research before buying everything, he wouldn't have had the problems.

    Besides, he's complaining about things like a broken S Video connector in his review, that is hardly Microsoft's fault.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:48PM (#13876387)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • You know what I remember? I remember, back in the mists of time (lets say, '98) my computer had a TV tuner. It was part of an ATI All-In-Wonder card. That card did everything fantastic (except 3D). Anyway, when Windows 98 came out, it included a thing to let those with TV tuners watch TV on their computers. I think you could record too! The setup was arduous. It didn't work too well when you got it to work. I think it also had push content included (remember that?).

      People have been pushing "Watch TV on you

    • I've never used Windows Media Center, but almost all of the problems he's complaining about sound like hardware problems, driver issues, or he chose the wrong hardware to begin with.

      Sure when it's Windows, it's the consumer's fault. When it's Linux, it's Linux's fault. Granted things will work for you if had all the right hardware and software. When you've paid $$$ for the software, you expect it to work.

  • Ummmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by That's Unpossible! ( 722232 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:14PM (#13876127)
    Primal cravings make people do strange and stupid things. They made me build a Windows Media Center PC. ... snip ...

    The first secret is that you need to scam your way into getting a copy of Windows XP Media Edition 2005, which is only sold to OEMs.

    I bet if this guy tried to build a real TiVo, it might suck as well.

    Perhaps windows media center is sold to OEMs only because they are the ones that know how the machines have to be built to work properly?

    Reviews like this are why Apple will never license MacOS X for PCs.

    • My own experience (Score:5, Informative)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:39PM (#13876325) Homepage
      Perhaps windows media center is sold to OEMs only because they are the ones that know how the machines have to be built to work properly?
      Exactly.

      After long years of being a Mac-only guy, I broke down and bought an Intel box this year. And guess what? It was a Media Center 2005 PC. And you know what else? It was painless to set up and it works exactly as advertised. This guy seems to be complaining about things like broken S-Video cables ... I can hardly see how that should be Microsoft's fault.

      On the other hand, he does bring up some important points. With Media Center and the hardware that came in my box, picture quality is not all that great. (I hear the Hauppauge cards offer the best quality; I might try one of those out.) You also can't time-shift FM radio. But then, like many TV tuner cards, mine didn't come with FM radio support, so it's a non-issue anyway.

      Also, for a "convergence" device, recording from a video source is exactly as painful as he describes. I could find NO software on my system that would let me record from VHS tape, except for one program that required me to insert DVD media. Unlike his case, it worked for me. But the point remains that this is totally stupid. What if I don't want to burn it to a DVD? What if I'd like to, um, you know ... check to see that I was getting a signal from my VCR first? Sorry, no way to do that. Your best option is to set it for a five-minute trial run and check to see if it worked after the program burns the results to a DVD.

      Another semi-retarded thing about Windows Media Center is that it records TV in a proprietary Microsoft format, DVR-MS. I am told that this is MPEG internally, but you need to export it with a different piece of software (NeroVision Express works) if you want to get a usable file that you could convert to XviD, for example.

      What's more, every video format you play in Windows Media Center is handled with a DirectShow filter. That's good, in the sense that when you install new codecs in XP they are automatically picked up by Media Center, so you can play your DivX, XviD, etc. There is one caveat, however, and that is that you can't stream these formats to another system via a Media Center Connector or whatever you call it, like your Xbox 360. I think only Windows Media and MPEG formats are supported.

      And another glitch with the DirectShow involves timing, which inevitably means you get these stutters in your video every few minutes when you're watching them on a TV. The guy who invented ReClock [divx-digest.com] explains it all in great length. The downside is that ReClock doesn't seem to work so well with Media Center yet.

      So, yeah, this "review" is dumb, and you shouldn't expect to be able to bash together a Media Center PC in a weekend and expect it to work. In fact, you may just want to spend $1,400 and buy one, like I did. But even if it works, Media Center is pretty far of from being a "TiVo killer" just yet. If all you want is a DVR, you should buy one of those. I bought the Media Center PC primarily because I wanted an x86 PC, and in that dual capacity it works fine for me.

      • Awesome on the timing issue thing, i have an issue with tv stuttering for no real reason @ random intervals (low cpu usage), i havent read the link you posted but thanks for the heads up :)
        • Looks like the page I posted is a little out of date. The real ReClock homepage [reclock.free.fr] is at a different URL than the one they list. If you download the software he's got a document inside the Zip file that explains the problem at length -- I'm serious, at length. What's frustrating is that it seems to be a DirectShow problem and nothing else -- I don't think VLC will stutter on the same setup, for example. But VLC doesn't integrate with Media Center 2005.
      • isn't the whole point of Windows being better than the mac is that it runs on generic hardware?

        So - if you were a Mac guy, then went to a pre-fabbed windows box that costs more than a mac (as most WMC computers do) how exactly did you save any money? ...asks the guy running a Dual G5 with Front Row....
        • ....So - if you were a Mac guy.....

          An Mac PB with an external HD and using a Sony Camcorder as a TV digitizer works great for me to record anything I want to watch again at a later time. A Mac Mini then plays the recordings back beautifully using a digital projector on a large screen. The 250GB HD can hold as may shows as I'd ever want to keep around.
      • If you're looking for the best analogue TV quality on MCE, the very best board to buy is an ATI Theater 550 based board [google.com], hands down. It sucks that there are no Linux drivers for it, but if you're already using MCE, it works very well, and has a better quality than Hauppauge.

  • Making the world a system admin.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:15PM (#13876136) Homepage
    For me the big issue here is that the aim of a central server that controls all of your media means that people will have to all become system adminstrators. This is hardly likely, the idea of my Wife worrying about menus to record programmes off the TV is not the sort of thing I look forwards to. Something like a TiVo is perfect as its a TV device that intends to record programmes and nothing else. My wife's iPod is perfect to listen to music on even if there is the irritant of having to connect it to the PC (and this is an irritant for her) and finally actually having paper photos to hand around is what her and her friends like doing. We could have a digital home with me as the sys admin... but my wife would hate it.

    The alternative of lots of seperate devices that do their jobs pretty well and have to communicate together clearly requires too much collaboration and innovation for those companies pushing the "Digital Home" vision around a central server.

    Media Centre is a great example of a company trying to force an idea it think SHOULD make it billions down the throats of people who don't want it. Give us loosely coupled devices that work together seemlessly not videos that chase us around the house or a central server that needs constant administration and updating.

  • WTF (Score:2)

    by SQLz ( 564901 )
    The media-center can't play back real time video w/ audio with a Athon64 3000+ with a top of the line mobo? Wow, Tivo could only dream of those specs.
    • ---
      One mans -1 Troll is another mans +1 Funny.

      One man's sig-line is another man's glaring, offensive typo.

    • PUHLEEZE!!!

      I have 2GHz Celeron with NVidia 5700 (which is far from the top end) and I can watch HDTV (while recording another HDTV broadcast AND an analog broadcast). ALL IN 1920 by 1080!!!

      Don't blame hardware and crappy driver issues on MCE. As long as you stick to Intel chipset and recommended hardware, you don't need much power to run MCE smoothly.

      • As long as you stick to Intel chipset and recommended hardware, you don't need much power to run MCE smoothly.

        Huh? You're as bad as the guy you're replying to. Why would you need to stick to Intel chipsets?

        I run an AMD/VIA setup, with an Athlon XP 2600+, and while recording *and* playing back *and* running a separate remote session (which you're not supposed to be able to do, but there's a hack for it) all at the same time, my CPU usage never rises above 20-25%.

        In fact, I used to watch one show on my TV,
        • I went through 3 VIA-chip based motherboards (different manufacturers) with various compatibility and stuttering issues. They all went away when I got the Intel-chip based boards.

          There is something about how VIA handles Virtual IRQ that messes with your hardware.

          There are countless VIA horror stories on avsforum.com and thegreenbutton.com.

          Cable card support should be coming next year...

    • I agree with many others around here that this guy totally failed at building this MCE. A friend and I built a Myth box out of spare parts (Athlon XP 2GHz, GeForce 5200, NF7-S) and a few things ordered from PCAlchemy, and when that failed (the ivtv driver didn't properly support the Hauppauge WinTV-500 dual tuner card at the time) we went to plan B, MCE2005. It installed flawlessly and after getting a MPEG2 decoder (nVDVD) we were in business. Two tuners of analog TV or one TV and one FM radio, DVD play

  • I wasn't even able to add a second drive (Score:5, Funny)

    by Safe Sex Goddess ( 910415 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:19PM (#13876162) Homepage Journal
    I tried to install a second drive on my Windows Media PC, but it wouldn't work.

    Eventually I broke a nail and had to abandon the project before any more damage was sustained.

  • There is a reason that MCE is only sold to OEMs... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shimmerkid ( 661737 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:20PM (#13876164) Homepage
    and this article illustrates why. Hacking together a MCE box from parts is a masochistic enterprise. MS only sells MCE to OEMs who are willing to QA their setup (acronym overload!). This writer just got a taste of what QA at Dell and HP must feel like.

  • 2X (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:20PM (#13876168)
    As a DVR, one tuner was just OK, with a second tuner working, it was still OK, provided you weren't too picky about mouths moving at the same time words came out.

    You clearly need a dual processor. One processor for each tuner. Throw enough horsepower against Microsoft and even MSWord has a decent framerate.

    • Don't forget, you need a proper graphics card, too.

      For the Full Aeroglass MSWordXML "Vista" eXPerience, you need a 256 MB video card with Direct3d 9 Hardware support.
  • I have been keeping track of WMC as it has evolved. I am a longtime TIVO owner (fantastic usability, excellent reliability) and last year I also built my own homebrew PVR to try and get out from under the TIVO monthly fee. So far the homebrew is working out very well -- I used Snapstream Beyond TV software, a Hippauge tuner card in an ASUS motherboard with an Athlon 2400XP CPU, 512MB of memory and a 200GB IDE drive (no RAID). Snapstream provides program data over the internet, bundled with the purchase of t

  • What a moron (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FullCircle ( 643323 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:28PM (#13876233)
    He lost my interest when I found the pic of the destroyed s-video cable.

    I've been in video since the 80's and I've seen that ONCE.

    You have to be a complete idiot to break an s-video cable off like that, so I can't take anything else in the article seriously. I guess he breaks keyboard and mouse connectors off too?

    • Ok, so the damaged he inflicted on the s-video cable was extreme. But you do have to admit the point that it is a supremely crappy design in general. Whoever thought of making a connector that was utterly symmetrical on the outside yet with pins on the inside that only fit one way and that can be snagged and bent was an utter moron.

      It's not so bad if you can look at the connector, then look at the socket, then only have to fiddle it a little to get it to fit. But try holding the wire in the same orientation
      • If you look at a ps2 and a s-video connector side by side, they have the same shielding. It's just that one is a 4 pin and one is a 6 pin.

        Neither one can be put in wrong because the metal shield has either one or three keys around it and a plastic key pin in the middle. You can roll them around until the thing just drops into place. I'm not sure why some people get all intimidated with s-video but jam ps2 connectors in without blinking. Maybe because ps2 connectors always have the keys aligned one certai

  • Thats Mediocresoft! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sdstudguy ( 413914 )
    I just wish Apple would produce a media center, because you know it would be refined and more then halfway decent. Doing what it does, and doing it well. Where as Bill Gates is notorious for making a wide range of products that just work poorly. Microsoft, the product name synonymous with mediocre. Want a phone OS, Desktop OS, or Media Center right now!? Then they'll have your $$$, because MediocreSoft (aka Microsoft) is there, doing what they do not well, but darn right OK enough to get your cash and nothi

    • Re:Thats Mediocresoft! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @07:00PM (#13876488)
      I just wish Apple would produce a media center

      I guess you missed the last round of product announcements from Apple?

      The new iMac G5's ship with a bundled remote control, and a media shell called "Front Row" that bears more than a passing resemblance to the interfaces of Tivo, XP Media Center, and the like.

      All that's missing from the equation is TV tuner support. There's one or two OEMs that sell external tuners for the Mac, but they key moment will come when Apple throws their support behind an internal, integrated solution. And to those who think that won't happen soon: were you also confident that Macs would never migrate to x86, and that iPods would never get video support?

      The contrast between Microsoft and Apple's product strategies is noticeable. Microsoft rushed to market with a decent but inelegant system, and refines it little by little each year. Apple has taken its time getting their initial product out there, but the extra care they take is readily noticeable in the useability.
      • "Apple has taken its time getting their initial product out there, but the extra care they take is readily noticeable in the useability."

        That's crap. Apple's FrontRow is lacking in both functionality and usability. Who decided that a six button remote was a good idea? Who decided that iTunes/iPhoto should open up when you want to view your music or photos?

        FrontRow is a poor response to Meida Center. Apple may have taken their time, but it doesn't show.

        Not to mention that Front Row has barely any resemblence

  • Is it backwards? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tktk ( 540564 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:36PM (#13876308)
    When I first heard about convergence, I imagined a situation where products met at the same place, like a fileserver. Picture a group random set of arrows all moving to the same spot.

    But it seems that companies are doing it backwards, where they they want to be in a single spot and they're sending arrows out everywhere.

    This doesn't seem like convergence to me...more like...diffusion.

  • If you don't know, don't build (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SeattleGameboy ( 641456 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:42PM (#13876341) Journal
    This guy's problem is not Windows Media Center, it is because he built the machine himself. If he did any research, he would have learned that hardware compatibility is key to having a smooth running MCE. Using built in sound chip? PUHLEEZE! Unless you have Intel chipset, you are going to have some major problems (VIA boards SUCK!!!) You could have gotten a $20 Chaintech AV-710 and he would never have had to deal with his sound problems. And poor picture? I am guessing he purchased some cheap 1st generation tuners. If you would have gotten ATI 550 based tuners, the picture quality would surpass that of any Tivo. And did you even try HDTV??? IT ROCKS!!! It is VERY important that you test out hardware compatibility before building an MCE yourself (unless you want to do a LOT of experimentation). Which is WHY MS DOES NOT SELL MCE by itself!!! If you have the right hardware setup, MCE is a pleasure. I have over 500GB recorded TV and another 100GB of music and picture. I also have about 50 DVD's ripped on the hard drive that I can watch without ever getting up from the couch. There is no other device (including APPLE) that will allow you to do that as easily as MCE.

  • Right tool, right job (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ricoder ( 414205 )
    I'll try to put asside the apparent anti-M$ bias in the article and read it for what it is; a complaint based on poor hardware choices and a lack of understanding for what a media center should be.

    Its pretty universal amongst geeks that computers belong in the living room controlling everything from lights to music to tv to door alarms...or maybe that's just me. No one, and I do mean no one, has managed to put it all together in one EASY TO USE AND REASONABLY PRICED package. You've gotta go in knowing tha
    • HDTV works GREAT on MCE as long as you use OTA. Cable cards are required for encrypted cable content, but that is not MS' fault.

      I have two Fusion5 HDTV cards ( As long as you stick to monitors that are computer friendly (plasma, lcd, dlp), you will have almost no problem with video or futz with PowerStrip. I mean, come on, you are going to spend a grand on MCE, you should be spending at least double that for your TV.

    • "-Then there is this idea that "As a DVR, one tuner was just OK[...]", sorry, but TiVo and all similar devices have 2 tuners as well, that's why you can record one show and watch another, that gripe doesn't hold water."

      Purely for clarity: Not necessarilly. If you record one channel and watch another that you've previously recorded, that can be done with a single tuner. However, if you have dual tuners, you can record two different channels AND watch another show that you've previously recorded.

      That may ha
  • My small company is an OEM System Builder, even though we don't want to build and sell computers (we'd rather fix them).
    Microsoft invited us to an event, gave us a for-resale copy of MCE 2005, and sold us $1200 worth of hardware that they selected to work with MCE for $399: mobo, Athlon 64 3000+, RAM, video card, tuner card, everything but a case and power supply.

    So, I brought it all home, built a Media Center, and invited it into our lives.
    It did what we asked of it, although it did so rather poorly.
    The s
  • A year ago, I built a media center PC using components off Microsoft's MCE hardware list and went with the components mentioned in various places as "most stable". I have an HD tuner and an analog tuner and I don't have any problems with my MCE. It's been reliable enough that I got rid of my Tivo. Of course, I'm not the typical user because I'm getting HD exclusively over the air (not via cable). I have my entire CD collection ripped to a second hard drive, I have over 2 gigs of family photos, I use the
    • I think the reviewer is totally unqualified to review MCE.
      As expected of Slashdot, it picked up this idiotic review which makes a Microsoft product look bad.

      BTW, You can create a scheduled task to call 'SetSuspendState' function to put your machine to sleep at night.
      • I tried, but it doesn't work because certain MCE functions are still running and won't go into suspend. I hear there's something called Wizmo that will force suspend but I haven't tested it yet.
        • Sounds like a BIOS setting issue, which have to be just right for this to work. And your mobo has to fully support S3 sleep. Alternatively, it may be some other process or piece of hardware that is keeping the machine awake. But it's not MCE05. My MCE goes to sleep just fine, and is dead quiet when asleep. I even use the Windows Power settings to have it automatically go to sleep when idle (thankfully MCE is smart enough to disable this when music, TV or a movie is playing.)

          MCE will even wake itself up
  • I really, really tried to build a media PC. I tried it with generic XP and a variety of add on apps, and I tried it with XP MCE also.

    The deal killer was I already had a Tivo. The reason I wanted a Media PC was ease of burning stuff to DVD to archive, and by the time I was done I had an extremely convoluted method to do what should have been simple. Most of all however, the $1500 or so that I sunk into it ended up wtih a really shitty picture quality, far inferior to the $100 Tivo I already had.

    My fin

  • How on earth? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by monopole ( 44023 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @06:59PM (#13876483)
    AMD64, Audigy, hardcore mobo? I've had a dual tuner (PVR-250) PVR, with a miniATX Athlon 2000+, nVidia 5200 and a Fortissimo III (for the optical output) running without a hitch with SageTV for years. It not only records two shows at once but will replay a third without breaking a sweat!

  • Why? (Score:2)

    by BCW2 ( 168187 )
    Why does anyone want to take things that work fine, like TV (cable or Sat) or Stereo and hook them up to something that has never worked right in history? A Windows PC. This just makes no sense at all, and I thought geeks used logic. A Tivo has always been a better choice, and it's much cheaper.

    My boss (white box store) wanted to build one of these in Feb. and I through the same argument at him, we still don't have a media center PC in the showroom. The TV he bought is now upstairs in the weekend party room

  • I have doubts of the abilities of the "reviewer" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BigDish ( 636009 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2005 @07:15PM (#13876599)
    Having run XP MCE 2005 since it came out, I have to believe that this "review" is useless and the "reviewer" is clueless. There's several things in the article which, just one of them, could be a mistake, but all of them together make it seem like the reviewer is not qualified to review XP MCE.
    First of all, the author thinks that the IR Blaster is a receiver. Secondly, the reviewer resorted to using S-Video over HDMI...then managed to break an S-Video cable. Not that PowerStrip is easy to use, but it seems that the author was incapable of using it.
    As to adding music, I'm not sure what's wrong with the author's network, but I have about 100GB of music and MCE adds it relatively quickly - certainly in minutes, not days as the reviewer indicated.
    I'm not sure what the reviewer's problem is with the radio - did he not realize you could manually select a station with the seek function?
    As to the general problems relating to him implying it was sluggish on his PC (Audio Sync Problems, slow importing time, etc) something is clearly wrong with how he configured his PC - I have MCE 2005 running on a machine less than 1/2 the speed (P4 1.6GHz) and it runs great with two tuners. Is XP MCE perfect? No. But I've used TiVo, ReplayTV, MythTV and XP MCE and so far MCE is my favorite.
    Anyway, I conclude that the reviewer is unqualified to offer a review on a product like this - especially because he blamed MCE for his faults/problems he took on by building his own box, rather than buying a prebuilt one. It's certainly not hard, as I did it, but clearly he had problems.
  • "My Videos, My Pictures, My TV, My Music." My God, it makes me want to kill My Self.

  • Clippit

    Dance style: The Twist

    This annoying 8-year-old piece of animated office equipment was once the scurge of Office users the world over. A most tragic character, he was brought up to be helpful but only ever amounted to an annoying pisstard that was funny for five minutes until the user found the dog with the oxyacetylene torch. Ever since his termination from the Office project, Clippit has been offering his services to all and sundry. This time around, he's a dancer for hire, and he's changed his

  • Tivo is cheaper (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Ragnarr ( 555058 )

    People always assume you need to spend a great deal of money for Tivo box. I recently bought a Tivo 40 hour for $50AR. I bought a 300gig HD for $100. I spent $299 for the lifetime subscription. So, for $449 I now have a 300 hour Tivo box.

    You might say,"But you modified it, lost your warranty, etc". That is true, I threw away my 90-day warranty on a device that you can easily get spare parts for almost like a computer (check out www.weaknees.com [weaknees.com]). I also gained 300 hours worth of Tivo time that took me an ho

    • I like the way you present your arguments. What would you do if you wanted to be able to view your recorded programs on another TV in your house? With the Series 1 Tivos, I could buy an AirPort (I think that was the name) network card, but I now have a newer model. What solution do you use?
    • ....Tivo is to media devices what Apple is to computers, they build things that work intuitively.....

      Since I already have an Apple PB and a Sony camcorder, adding an external 250GB HD was the only additional cost to have an easy to use system for recording material from the satellite receiver. The Toast software allows the burning of DVDs that can play back either on the PB connected to a projector or on any DVD payer around the house. The camcorder directly converts the signal from the receiver and feeds i
    • Tivo is to media devices what Apple is to computers

      No, Tivo is the Microsoft of DVRs. ReplayTV is Apple.
  • I've been considering getting or making some sort of PVR solution. I keep wavering between building one for myself or getting one pre-built that will hook into my home network. The real issue for me has not been hardware though, but software. So far it seems that a pre-built, specialized box gives you better features and the content can be moved off to my network anyway. Is there really any advantage to building it yourself?
  • ...and another thing...

    Perhaps the "builder" did not realize that Google Provides All. There is a site called The Green Button (I think its UK based), that is currently the best MCE forum around. There were a couple of instances where I wanted to do something the MCE didn't natively do and TGB provided me with solutions.

    I'd say anyone who wants a more balanced oppinion of what MCE IS and what MCE IS NOT, should spend 20 minutes flipping through that forum and seeing what people are praising, griping about
  • Maybe some of you guys already saw this guy get (politely but firmly) put in his place in the forum over there.

    Hey,

    Sorry you had so many problems trying to build your own Media Center.

    So the reason you can't burn DVDs through the Media Center interface is because you need the Sonic encoders for the Sonic burn engine which is what is used by Media Center to burn DVDs. Unfortunately, the Sonic encoders are only available to OEMs and are not available to system builders.

    This is just one of the many reasons (yo
  • I run a MCE 2005 box with two tuners. The tuners are AverMedia M150s, about as cheap as you can get for a tuner with MPEG-2 encoding (about $60 each).

    Here's what you need for a good 2-tuner media center experience:

    - Decent drives. A 7200rpm SATA drive is best, I use a Maxtor DiamondMax 10 300GB. If possible, have a separate drive for storing shows than the one you use to boot off of.
    - A GOOD GPU. I found that a 64-bit GeForce FX 5200 just didn't cut it. I use a NV44A GeForce 6200 now.
    - A good DVD decoder. I
  • I have four computers in my home running media center edition 2004 and now 2005. They use both internal and external USB 2.0 tuners.

    I have NEVER seen the voice and audio not sync on ANY of the systems. And the picture quality is at the control of the tuner, but is outstanding in comparison to the old TiVo and Cable DVR units I have used, especailly when pushing the images to a LARGE 8' HD Display.

    These articles are insane, and you give them credibility by even posting them here?

    What if I wrote one on how al
  • Links to MCE 2005 systems(their e-stores)
    I know this takes all the fun out of it, but sometimes it really is just too much work
    to get a computer to do stuff that should be easy(i.e. Suse vs. Gentoo; i use both).
    Consider these a few points of reference for your plans for World Domination
    ("...What are we going to do tonight Brain?..." ;-)

    Shuttle: Shuttle m1000 [shuttle.com]
    which looks like a 'normal' audio/video component, and a variety of SFF-based systems from 899$US.
    the advantage of the SFF-based systems wou

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