RIAA Sets Their Sights on Russia 485
Conor Turton writes to tell us that the RIAA has set their sights on Russia for their newest push into anti-piracy. A recent bill was sponsored in the Senate to deny Russia's entrance into the WTO (among other things) if they did not take major action against piracy. From the press release: "The effective protection of American intellectual property has been sorely lacking in Russia. This resolution is significant because it expresses the will of the U.S. Congress that Russia must take effective action against those who would steal America's knowledge-intensive intellectual property-based goods and services. We must not enter into political arrangements with countries ill-prepared to adequately protect our greatest economic assets."
Someone's gotta... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Someone's gotta... (Score:5, Funny)
Sarin Gas (Score:3, Interesting)
I hope the folks at the RIAA have a good supply of gas masks:
Re:Sarin Gas (no way) (Score:3, Interesting)
It isn't Sarin, it isn't a CBW agent (although it could be used for temporary area denial). Just think of a very, very powerful stink bomb. It probably was used during a shake down by a rival outfit offering "security services".
I'm following this with more than a litt
Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
We must not enter into political arrangements with countries ill-prepared to adequately protect our greatest economic assets.
So the RIAA did $12 billion in sales last year (link [cirpa.ca]) That's *total* of all sales, including sales of downloads. In comparison, General Motors had $193 billion in revenue. (link [autointell-news.com])
You tell me which one's the real "great economic asset".
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)
You're forgetting, that's before the adjustment for piracy. $120,000 per track, times lots of numbers, especially downloads from russia, means that the RIAA's turnover if russia complied would be $5 gazerbaijuhullion per year.
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:3, Informative)
Our stealth aircraft tech depends on Russian research paper.
Mebbe Moscow should start demanding some royalties.
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
Usefulness: shutting off discussion of actual similarities between the fascist takeovers of Italy and Germany to the fascist takeovers of Russia and the United States. Takes away the most powerful arguments of those who must use the comparison to bring home the fact that Americans gravitate naturally towards a superpowerful, unconstitutional dictator coupled with hypermilitarism, suppression of dissent, and directed fear against a faceless adversary. Oh, like in the last five years.
Godwin! 9-11! Terrorism! War! 9-11! Muslism with nukes! Crazed enemies without provocation! Godwin! Must take out the treacherous Poles, er, Iraqis, before they strike first! No similarities between the Nazi's methodology and the current admin's. Nothing to see here, move along, Godwin, 9-11. Thank you, and 9-11.
Re:Well Napoleon, Hitler and now the RIAA (Score:4, Insightful)
HEY!
Only fifty-one percent of Americans gravitate towards such a state, thank you very much.
The reason why Godwin's Law (someone will say Hitler) and it's Corollary (that means Game Over) are useful is that regardless of the merits of the comparison, mentioning the Nazis invariably provokes an emotional reaction. Emotion is the enemy of thoughtful, reasoned debate.
There very well are some valid comparisons between the American state today and the German state 70 years ago, but please, if you wish to engage in rational discourse, try not to use language that suggests a party to the debate wants to kill 5 million Jewish people.
So this is it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Major corruption? Bah
A weak if existant democracy? Bah I say!
But piracy? Close the borders, its war!
I knew the policymakers had deep pockets, but damn!
Re:So this is it? (Score:2, Insightful)
"But piracy? Close the borders, its war!"
Yes, you are correct. Whether we like it or not, intellectual property is one of the USA's biggest exports, if not the biggest export. It's one of the reasons why we're one of the richest nations on the planet, and it's a major factor in the quality of life we enjoy. It's no coincidence that countries which don't pay much bother to the Berne Convention and other similar international agreements are by and large shitty places to live.
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad govt + Money == Good
Good govt - Money == Bad
Is this it?
I feel like quoting the last lines of your national anthem, since must have forgotten
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure how you read that into my post. I am stating a fact: whether we like it or not, our country makes a hell of a lot of money on intellectual property. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is, as the math texts say, an exercise left to the reader.
The countries that are not signatories to the Berne Convention do not generally have what I consider to be "good" governments, either. If I were to try to come up with a list of five countries in the world that I consider to have "good" gover
Re:So this is it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Informative)
It wasn't so much that the US refused to sign as that the government couldn't sign. The Berne convention was incompatible with US law until 1988. The US has been a member of UCC for over 50 years, though.
-h-
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So this is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So this is it? (Score:4, Informative)
Not sure what anyone could have against San Marino or its government. Or why anyone wouldn't want to live there, it's a very beautiful little collection of villages. You do know where it is, right?
Unless of course if you were Swedish, since the longest state of war (technically speaking) in European history existed between San Marino and Sweden, only to end in about 1992.
I've always loved this imagery, a tiny group of villages in the mountains of Italy fighting a country of 8 million famous for their very safe cars, social democracy, Abba and nice pine furniture.
Hail Freedonia!
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad govt + Money == Good
Good govt - Money == Bad
Is this it?
No, that's not it.
Liberty + Rule Of Law + Market Economics == Good
Communist Baggage + Pirate Mentality + Too Much Vodka == Bad
If the Russian government won't recognize and grapple with the huge, nearly China-like, economy-wide house of cards that is their disregard for intellectual property rights, it's sure as hell a good sign that we don't want to recognize them as economic peers.
I feel like quoting the last lines of your natio
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Insightful)
If the Russian government won't recognize and grapple with the huge, nearly China-like, economy-wide house of cards that is their disregard for intellectual property rights, it's sure as hell a good sign that we don't want to recognize them as economic peers.
What's with the "we"? You aren't talking about recognizing them as economic peers, you're talking about making them economic slaves. I certainly don't care if some poor Russian who only makes $100 a month buys a movie he would otherwise be unable to see
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So this is it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Solving the system of equations... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Solving the system of equations... (Score:3, Insightful)
Governments are also the means by which the aforementioned corporations come into being, and through which they get their power. Government also was responsible for the "legal person" fiction corporations enjoy, without the pesky responsibility to follow the laws that real people have. Heaven forbid the shareholders might actually held responsible for the company's actions...
Re:So this is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. IP the biggest export.
http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/industry/otea/usfth/agg
Fact, IP was the Number 4 export for the united states in 2004.
and at about 7.5% of our total exports, it wasn't aa huge a player as you made it out to be.
2. It's one of the reasons why we're one of the richest nations on the planet
BS, we're rich because a. america had vast untapped resources and still widely under utilized natural resource bases b. america stole virtually every piece of technology they could to 'build' their industrial base and c. no major wars rased any of our industrial complexs.
3. it's a major factor in the quality of life we enjoy.
Actually the ammount of profit made off 'ideas' has almost no correlation to qquality of life what so ever. there are a lot of important factors, but frankly ip centric societies (the UK) have managed to prosper with tight IP laws, and 'historically lax' IP nations as the US have also prospered... IP laws come in so late in the equasion that they can't really change a whole lot about an economy...
4. It's no coincidence that countries which don't pay much bother to the Berne Convention and other similar international agreements are by and large shitty places to live.
others called BS on this already, for 103 years the US refused to sign said convention. the entire decade 'of greed' occured before said convention was signed in the US.
Compare Singapore and Russia (Score:5, Insightful)
Singapore didn't sign on to the Berne Convention until 1998. That was after they had transformed a largely agrarian society into a technological powerhouse in the space of less than a century.
It's not a coincidence, in the sense that the USA pressures any country that wishes to trade internationally to implement copyright protection.
Singapore did the right thing, and built a strong economy first before implementing copyright--like the USA did. Russia made the mistake of implementing copyright as part of the "market reforms" that the west told them would transform their country, and look at their economy now. So now we're going to tell them that the problem is they haven't tried it hard enough...
Re:So this is it? (Score:2)
This wouldn't have anything to do with... (Score:5, Insightful)
In Soviet Russia... (Score:3, Funny)
gotcha
rock and a hard place (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know which is sadder, that the RIAA has such influence over Congress, or that this might be true.
Cool your jets... (Score:2)
A recent bill was sponsored in the Senate. If you give enough money to your senator, you can have a bill sponsored too. Doesn't mean it will pass...
Re:rock and a hard place (Score:3, Insightful)
It's extremely true -- intellectual property is one of the US's biggest exports. This is quite clear to people who've left the US and seen the impact of US culture. American movies are popular worldwide, American pop stars are popular all over, and Windows is the #1 operating system worldwide. The taxes paid on the revenue earned by US producers of intellectual property are a major reason that we enjoy the quality of life that we do.
Well we better start preparing for less quality lives then because there is
Re:rock and a hard place (Score:3, Interesting)
On a more serious note, I do think it is somewhat fitting that the primary message and image sold by the entertainment industry for the past I'm-not-going-to-even-take-a-stab-at-a-number years has been one of general l
Cannot legislate morals... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cannot legislate morals... (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you serious? It is legislation that keeps theft to a minimum. If it were perfectly legal download copyrighted music/video, then what reason would anyone have to pay for it? You say that distributors need to make it easier/cheaper to buy the content than to copy it. This is not possible to do if there is no legislation against sites/programs which allow you to download the material with the click of a mouse. Now I would agree with the conclusion that legislation alo
Re:Cannot legislate morals... (Score:3, Insightful)
Uhm...that's what legislation does. It reduces the economic incentive by raising the cost of theft. Surely you don't think the direct cost to buy something is the only economic cost, do you?
Re:Cannot legislate morals... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, but you can reduce theft by first defining what a theft is, and then enforcing the penalties thereof. In Russia, what we call copyright violation they call "legal".
If you want to curb it, you have to remove the economic incentive to steal.
Anything of value has an economic incentive to steal. There's tremendous economic incentive to steal diamonds, but the threat of jail time, combined with the difficult problem of breaking into maximum security safes, outweighs the bene
China? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:China? (Score:2)
Re:China? (Score:2)
LK
Re:China? (Score:3, Informative)
There were shops along Nevsky Prospekt in St. Petersburg, the main shopping area, that openly sold pirated movies, software and music. Every underground crosswalk had kiosks selling CDs full of stuff and the police neither noticed or cared. I heard that at that time, 2001, there were no real laws against it.
(This may have changed in the last few years, I'm sure someone could confirm.)
In Beijing, I saw one seller of
Re:China? (Score:3, Interesting)
As common place as piracy is in Russia, I imagine this would be impossible to enforce and likely just ignored.
Depends how far out you go (Score:4, Informative)
Re:China? (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno... (Score:2)
--LWM
China and WTO (Score:5, Informative)
Re:China and WTO (Score:3, Insightful)
(Yeah, I realise the question was probably rhetorical)
RIAA Sets Their Sights on Russia? (Score:3, Interesting)
On a more serious note: So, the **IA wants to blackmail Russia into providing protection of intellectual property rights or risk not being accepted into the World Trade Organization... Like that will work.. 'cause in Soviet Russia, YOU blackmail music... no wait, that's not right...
Russia has more important things to worry about (Score:5, Insightful)
If the RIAA really wanted this to happen, they would pretty much have to offer to pay for the enforcement and prosecution. I would not be suprised if Russia would accept an offer that involved the RIAA paying for the police salaries, especially since the police would also server more useful functions.
Then again, I dont really like the ramifications of a corporate funded police force that had the full backing and authority of the state.
Good thing that I am basically talking out my ass then, I suppose.
END COMMUNICATION
Re:Russia has more important things to worry about (Score:4, Informative)
However coprporates already running prisons in US and some other contries in the world.
from Google cache [66.102.7.104]
Re:Doubtful (Score:3, Insightful)
Hahahahaha (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hahahahaha (Score:3, Funny)
Knowledge Intensive eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Here's some knowledge intensive U2 lyrics for you:
WoooAoo! WoooAoo! WoooAoo! WoooAoo!
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah,
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
I can feeeeEEEEEEeeeeeel.
of course (Score:2, Funny)
slashdot cliches you
Does it strike anyone else as strange... (Score:5, Insightful)
...that any country can "steal" something considered "property" of the other country-without committing an overt, forceful act that would normally be considered an act of war?
Something seems very wrong with this definition of "property", and every attempt to shoehorn it into that box seems to be more of a stretch then the last.
Re:Does it strike anyone else as strange... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I'm sure they're going after the people selling the pirated discs, not the consumers, but those people aren't reaping huge profits either. They're often only working class people themselves. Taiwan and China are examples of unregulated and unrestrained capitalism that the WTO is pushing for all around the world. It's people doing whatever they can to make a buck. Except in the case of the WTO supported corporations, these people are making billions of dollars doing things that hurt working class peopl
yeah, right... (Score:2, Funny)
"knowledge-intensive intellectual property-based goods"
Hey! Wait! I know those three chords - D-A-G.
"our greatest economic assets."
Hey! Wait! I know t
Talk about two faced liars. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Talk about two faced liars. (Score:5, Informative)
http://news.google.com/news?q=wto+remove+agricult
So, yes, they like to ignore the WTO, but when the threatened sanctions were large enough, even the U.S. caved.
BTW, this is considered a fairly significant win for the WTO
Ell Oh Ell (Score:2, Interesting)
"greatest economic assets."
Such a statement is ill-worded. The world wide record industry, according to the RIAA site [riaa.com], is a mere 40 billion dollars. Now, this may seem grand, but on the scale of the entire United States GDP, it's only...
If that's bad math, which I have a rousing sus
Re:Ell Oh Ell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ell Oh Ell (Score:2)
They are speaking of intellectual property in general, not the music industry in particular. The US also exports a lot of movies and software. I don't know how much software and DVD content is pirated in Russia, but it's probably significant as well. This would put your calculation off by a significant amount.
"I would also consider it good samaritan-ship to be generous and share music, isn't that what they teach us to do in school? To share? It's not as if a bucaneer would ripping it directly off thei
who lost Russia? (Score:3, Insightful)
In Soviet Russia... (Score:3, Interesting)
Allofmp3.com ... (Score:2)
"...protect our greatest economic assets" (Score:5, Insightful)
A nations ability to manufacture real goods is the true measure of its vitality.
Which is why we should all consider learning Cantonese as a second language.
Re:"...protect our greatest economic assets" (Score:4, Interesting)
Why? You've heard the old saying "give a man a fish...?" Part of the point there is that the knowledge of fishing is more valuable than the actual fish, or the actual fishing is.
Similarly, consider the atomic bomb. What would happen if the US had had two of them bestowed upon us by an alien race, rather than made by scientists? The fact that we could at any time make more was the thing that really clinched the decision to end WWII.
If we export mostly ideas then it is quite possible that we've got more ideas than we have people to handle them, and need to export the work to make them happen. Don't get me wrong: there's certainly lots of laziness and of living off of the squalor of other parts of the world to blame for why we're doing all that exporting of ideas only. But that's not all of it.
Ideas can be precious and highly valuable things, and those who produce them are sometimes the most productive people in the world.
Of course, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but you're going to have to do more than make claims without backing them up with facts or even examples.
Re:"...protect our greatest economic assets" (Score:3, Informative)
You want Mandarin. My wife and I will be taking such a course this January.
In Soviet Russia... (Score:2)
I mean, America.
Screw it.
Hold on a second... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should the RUSSIANS (or insert your favorite country here) care for "protection of AMERICAN intellectual blahblah.."?... When first and foremost, they're supposed to be caring for their own "intellectual blahblah"...
And this will somehow pass, and we'll go on trying to get countries to uphold US Law in their own land, and more and more and more people will get to love us, don't you think?...
Geez...
SONY's new trick (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:SONY's new trick (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, there might be with Windows, and with certain Sony specific add-ons they add to Windows, but this is all the more reason to not run Windows and either run OS X (a'la iBook or PowerBook), FreeBSD, or Linux.
Re:SONY's new trick (Score:3, Insightful)
The company that brought the single worst piece of DRM crap (their abortion of a rootkit) yet introduced.
Don't want any of this crap ? don't buy Sony. It's that simple.
How much does legislation cost these days? (Score:5, Interesting)
If that is the case, we could start the Slashdot Political Action Committee and bury the RIAA/MPAA with some really interesting legislation. Just a thought.
an emerging issue (Score:3, Insightful)
And exactly why should Russia give a hoot about protecting the RIAA's assets? This continues to emerge as a huge issue in international relations.
In the Internet age, the only way to make copyrights & patents work is to enforce them wordwide. And agreements can be made, as long as both involved countries have IP to protect. France, Germany, UK, Japan, I can see why they'd cooperate. But most of the world's nations don't have much commecial IP to protect. I don't see how IP can be protected worldwide without bullying the crap out of a lot of little countries. In fact, I don't think even that will work.
Sure is gonna be messy over the next few decades.
Geez, this is so insane on so many levels (Score:2)
Good Luck with that (Score:5, Insightful)
The music industry is desperate, because the fat profits are drying up. And if that "problem" weren't enough they are being faced with disruptive technologies that almost make them obsolete. Face it, big music labels are only needed for marketing. With a few thousand dollars worth of equipment you can put together a good home studio, make your own CD, and sell your music online. And if you are good enough to get some grassroots buzz, you will probably make as much that way as signing with the big label. As someone said "last throws."
Re:Good Luck with that (Score:3, Insightful)
So do the Americans.
Had to say it... (Score:3, Funny)
In Soviet Russia, the ecording Industry Association of America owns you!
Well thats bloody rich I must say. (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope the RIAA members enjoy... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a hard time imagining that Russian piracy rings would be filled with nice-nice people who would be scared of a few lawsuits or even Russian "law enforcement."
Re:I hope the RIAA members enjoy... (Score:3, Insightful)
To you and all others who dragged in the "Russian Mafia". It is irrelevant, and not just because the godfather lives in the Kremlin. It is irrelevant mostly because there is virtually no "piracy" in Russia. The distribution that takes place is entirely legal and is carried out by legitimate businesses.
That's funny (Score:5, Funny)
Such hubris (Score:3, Funny)
I wonder if this parallel is symbolic of anything?
(To the lemmings who will doubtless now pour out of the woodwork screaming about Godwin's Law, please go back to sleep. That law refers to gratuitous overuse of references to Hitler or the Nazis...it doesn't say they should not be mentioned at all. Although even if it did, personally I'd hardly care...so don't bother.)
China (Score:5, Interesting)
As a career sideman, I feel no pain for the old industry passing (especially the lawyers), but the job of recording engineer is going the way of the hatmaker. Actually that analogy breaks down: The job of recording artist and recording engineer are being merged and will not pay very well. There used to be more work for painters, too.
OT: There's a bigger issue here about labor and specialization - the best singer I've ever knew (hits in the 60s) was taking an occasional plumbing job in the 80s and wasn't bitter: The way he put it was: $30 an hour. This while commanding $2-$4k for 20 - 40 oldies shows a year. I didn't quit playing during the 90s net boom and still work a lot now. I also stay buzzword compliant - this year: AJAX(ugh) and psych-folk(cool).
I find it...disturbing...that "IP" is... (Score:5, Insightful)
C'mon, now, if that stuff is all our greatest asset, then we're pretty much done for as a country and an economic power. And it's as disturbing that Congress views it that way too.
That takes balls (Score:3, Informative)
Since when does Britney Spears and the rest qualify as this?
If that's their ultimatum... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What? (Score:2)
Here's Why The WTO Thinks They Are (Score:3, Informative)
From the horse's mouth
http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/10ben _e/10b00_e.htm [wto.org]
Re:In Soviet Russia.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:In Soviet Russia.... (Score:3, Interesting)