New 3D Graphics Card Features in 2006 297
Ant writes "This Tom's Hardware article says that in the latest generation of graphics cards, PixelShader has become mainstream. Version 3 features 3D effects like HDR rendering for bright light sources, and parallax mapping for even more vivid features in walls and stones. The brand-new ATI Radeon X1000 series and the NVIDIA GeForce 6 and 7 master these improved graphics features. It looks at today's newest computer games (e.g., F.E.A.R.) and compare the 3D effects."
h.264 accelleration in geforce 6, 7 gpus (Score:5, Interesting)
The fact that they added h.264 accelleration support to both the 6xxx AND 7 series is pretty cool, imho. Not leaving the previous generation card owners behind.
e.
Re:h.264 accelleration in geforce 6, 7 gpus (Score:2)
Re:h.264 accelleration in geforce 6, 7 gpus (Score:2)
Re:h.264 accelleration in geforce 6, 7 gpus (Score:5, Funny)
It's actually the 5 lb copper heat sink that makes it cooler and cooler.
Here is a feature I'd like to see.... (Score:5, Insightful)
ayup (Score:3, Insightful)
What I'm getting at is these $500-$700 cards will major
Re:ayup (Score:4, Insightful)
CPU requires a new chipset.
Now I need a new motherboard.
Oops, now I need new memory.
Oh, my power supply doesn't support this new hardware.
Damn, the PCI slot is in exactly the wrong spot - now I need to get a new case... or remove the drive cage...
Goes on and on and on. I don't factor upgradability into any system I buy, there's no point.
Re:ayup (Score:2)
Re:ayup (Score:5, Insightful)
Consoles sell well because a lot of companies make games only for them. But if you buy all 3 consoles each generation, you're spending abut as much for the PC, and not getting the side benefits of a full computer.
Not really... (Score:2, Insightful)
I buy myself an Xbox (200$), PS2 (180$), and a GameCube (120$). That costs me $500. A GeForce 6800 GT costs the same amount.
Then I look at the games. Between the GameCube, Xbox, and PS2, I own (easily) over 100 games. Have there been over 100 PC games in the past 3 years that are worth owning? We do have representatives from the real-time strategy crowd and the
Re:Not really... (Score:5, Interesting)
While you were able to own those three systems for ~$500, you did forget additional expense for network capability, multiple controllers, etc. You also still don't get all the real benefits of a computer (ie: internet, document processing, development, etc).
The next crop of consoles will set you back a lot more than a PC, though. 400$ for the XBox, 400$ for the PS3, 200$ for a Revolution... and then you get to buy controllers, AV adaptors, and games. And you still don't get to do any of the useful PC things.
Also, you seem to forget that genres like platformers and RPGs are better on a PC anyway. Using a gamepad for many of those things is constraining, especially if you've played PC games in those genres. The music games and other party games are only nicer on a console because you don't have to worry about anything. As the XBox shows, a PC plugged into a TV is all you really need, and if it's a real PC, you can do a lot more than just games.
You missed the point. (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, if you're going to jump in at the beginning of a console life cycle, it's going to be expensive. OTOH, let's sit back and do some real thinking. An Xbox, PS2, and GameCube would have been (respectively) 300$ USD + 300$ USD + 200$ USD (800USD!). T
That's not a fair comparison. (Score:2)
Re:You missed the point. (Score:2)
I'll also point out that it's pretty foolish to buy a Ti4400 when 6200's are available for $60 or 70.
Platformers better on a PC? (Score:2)
As to the rest of your arguments, there are a lot of gamers who never bother to get network connectivity. And extra controllers are perhaps $30 a system? Again only if you plan to use it multi-player, with someone else who does not have the same system and thus another controller they can bring...
The new system base prices are more expensive to start with for sure,
Re:Not really... (Score:2)
I bought a 6800GT shortly after they were released here in the UK; then, it cost me about £250. Right now, a year later, a decent XBox bundle will set you back about £200. I have absolutely no idea how you managed to pay so much for your GT - even the new 7800GTs can be had for less than that...
Re:Not really... (Score:2)
I can build a whole PC for that, with a geforce 6200. Not the very best of the best, but good enough - as others have said, if you're going to compare the current top-of-the-range graphics card you should compare buying the consoles when they were new.
Then I look at the games. Between the GameCube, Xbox, and PS2, I own (easily) over 100 games. Have there been over 100 PC games in the
Re:Not really... (Score:2)
A 6800 GT might cost that at the extreme high end, but you can easily get one for well under $300 (just checked NewEgg). Hell, my dad picked up a 7800 GTX 256 MB for $500 just before Christmas, so there's no reason to spend that much on a 6800. I managed to get a 6800 for under $200 (though, it's not a GT, but it does play all the latest games with no problem).
Re:Not really... (Score:2)
You don't need to spend $500 on the latest video card to play current games. You can get a more than capable video card for under $100.
We do have representatives from the real-time strategy crowd and the FPS crowd, but what of the musir rythm games, platformers, party games (Mario Party on a computer would be considerably more constrained!), J-RPGs, etc?
*Rhythm games - How about stepman [stepmania.com]
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:ayup (Score:2)
Nethack on $5 video cards :-) (Score:2)
I did most of my game obsessing back when a 9600-baud modem made playing Nethack marginally faster compared to 2400, and Solitaire wastes just about as much time on WinXP with 2.4GHz CPU as it did on Win3.1.
It's nice to have enough graphics horsepower to watch DVDs, and whatever H.264 uses is theoretically useful as well, but mostly I just want a graphics card that can pump as many pixels as my monitor can handle at a speed that won't flicker, because I want good-l
Graphics are one important aspect of games (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Graphics are one important aspect of games (Score:2)
Re:Graphics are one important aspect of games (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Graphics are one important aspect of games (Score:2)
Better graphics might actually decrease realism (Score:2, Insightful)
So, actually, increasing simulation quality doesn't mean more subjective
Re:Graphics are one important aspect of games (Score:2)
People are making good strides with fantasy FPS, and couple that with things like the vastly improved PVP in WoW and peoples obsession with that...I think we're just on the verge of seeing a good MMOFPS that will be what Planetside SHOULD HAVE been.
There's still plenty of improvments to be made. (Score:2)
The two things that are still missing from FPS:
- Multisession persistence - the only character stats that improve over the course of a game are guns, and somewhat health and armor. There's especially a lack of persistence in multi-player FPS. What if I were to play an FPS today, and improve my character, log out, and log in t
Re:There's still plenty of improvments to be made. (Score:2)
price (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:price (Score:2)
Re:price (Score:3, Interesting)
I boycotted EA when they bought West Wood and killed the CnC franchise.
Re:price (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop buying the very top of the line!
I picked up a Geforce 7800GT for a little over $300. There surely exists an ATI card at about the same price-value point.
Re:price (Score:2)
Unless PC gaming has changed drastically since I quit about 3 years ago, it's still a pain in the butt. Now that my son is getting old enough to play, I just want something we can have fun with together, with some good shared-screen multiplayer games, and which actually functions properly. I don't plan to get back into sitting alone in a darkened computer room playing games for hours on end, ever.
Re:price (Score:2)
Naturally high-end stuff carry a bit of a premium price too. You can get good cards for below $200.
Re:price (Score:2)
Re:price (Score:2)
Re:price (Score:5, Insightful)
Shhhhhhhhhhh! I frickin' love early adopters.
KFG
Re:price (Score:2)
I know this was presented amusingly, but I would have modded it insightful. Early adopters are the reason the technology field is progressing so well. It helps offset the high cost of R&D.
I realize I'm stating the obvious here, but I'm still amazed at how barfy people around here get when new things come along at ridiculous prices. I mean, it's one thing to say "I wouldn't pay that much so I'll wait until the price comes down..." but often I hear "This p
Unreal Engine 3 (Score:5, Informative)
Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
So HDR should work great under linux, in about 2010.
2006? (Score:5, Interesting)
The first example I saw of Parallax mapping was actually something done in DOOM 3 (I can't find the post on the OpenGL forum). So why are these "new features" considered "New". Looks like an advert for current gen Hardware to me...
A guess (Score:2)
Everquest 2 for instance, if you want to play with all of the options turned on, you'd need 2 gig of ram an uber video card with at least 512MB ram and it still doesn't run that great. 2006 may bring those people viable performance on the settings you see in screen shots.
Re:A guess (Score:2)
Sure, it has some reasonably high res textures, meaning it does use 512MB texture ram, but otherwise the engine sucks.
I mean they haven't been able to fix the pretty shadows to actually stay on for the past year - they always vanish/bug out as soon as there is a bit more spell effects going around you. And if they can't even get the damn shadows to work right, one has to wonder what other things are totally buggy in the engine
(also funnily their
Re:2006? (Score:2, Informative)
Advertising (Score:2)
If
It's all good but.... (Score:5, Insightful)
While these advances are all fine and good, how much of a jump would be worth say, a $500 dollar (assume you can get deals) outlay each year? While the new graphics are great, I can't say they are 500 smackers a year greater.
Re:It's all good but.... (Score:2, Insightful)
a $500 dollar outlay
Read that out loud. "$500" == "five hundred dollar". "$500 dollar" == "five hundred dollar dollar". So it's a five hundred dollar dollar outlay?
Re:It's all good but.... (Score:3, Funny)
I bought a good card last century.
KFG
A $500 jump is it really costs $1000 (Score:2)
Re:It's all good but.... (Score:2)
The feature I want (Score:5, Insightful)
Cost for production is cost for production (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, this doesn't factor in R&D costs, but there's a lot more growth going on in graphics processing than there is in x86.
I'm not in any kind of position to make judgments (because I'm not an expert on either industry), but it seems to a laymen that the $400 price tag might just be justifiable for a 7800GTX.
Re:The feature I want (Score:2)
The chintzy integrated video will play all of those games well enough. But you're going to have to back off from "11" on the display options.
Re:The feature I want (Score:2)
I don't think that's true. A lot of the integrated video I see is whatever intel has laying around. They don't have enough video ram to even start up Battlefield 2 and the games these chipsets do support tend to be supported at 'low' which means 800x600, low textures, and no AA. Console games look better than this stuff.
The grandparent is right, there are no real
Re:The feature I want (Score:2)
Doesn't look too good. (Score:2)
Re:The feature I want (Score:2)
Let's talk money... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Let's talk money... (Score:2)
The GFX features are great but games still suck. (Score:4, Insightful)
More and more money is pumped into the game and less and less imagination. Just like Hollywood movies.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for progress in the graphic cards. But graphics do not make the game. When I am playing UT, I have no time to look at the special effects, I am more concerned with staying alive. Game must have a good gameplay not just good graphics.
Re:The GFX features are great but games still suck (Score:3, Insightful)
In my mind, UT2004 was exactly the right kind of sequel, adding several new and interesting game play options, including Onslaught, vehicles and new weapon types. UT2003 tried, but unfortunately produced gameplay that was not popular (bombing run, sports style).
Alongside that they are upgrading graphics. They probably do spend too much time on
nothing to see here, move along. (Score:5, Insightful)
Games? What about the basic OS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Core Image in OS X offloads a lot of the GUI stuff to the graphics processor. To get all the eye candy (sorry, usability improvements) you can't have a particularly old card. Vista is doing the same thing.
Now we are really putting the G into GUI.
Re:Games? What about the basic OS? (Score:2, Informative)
That's not exactly true. Core Image provides the real-time framework for certain filters to execute on pixels. This includes, for a GUI example, the ripple when a widget is added to Dashboard, but it could also include filters in a Cocoa image manipulation program. Developers can trivially add the bu
I don't care, until (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, radeon appears to be supported by Xorg, but it does not seem stable at all.
With the feature set of the modern graphics hardware, the drivers ought to be maintained by the manufacturers with access to the hardware and the specs.
NVidia is doing a good enough job with the Linux and FreeBSD on i386, but they don't have anything for FreeBSD/amd64 (despite posts begging for it on their forums for the last 2 years) and I am greatly disappointed...
Re:I don't care, until (Score:2)
Nvidia's amd64 drivers are pretty stable too. Been using them for a year now - since I got my 64-bit athlon. Never had any problems running Xorg on it. The Xorg shadows and transparencies behave as expected.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I don't care, until (Score:3, Informative)
Oh dear. (Score:5, Insightful)
He continually mixes up the significance of the capabilities of the shading languages, the 'quality settings' of random games, and just the sheer speeds of the cards.
Doesn't have a great grasp of english either (not that my german is that good to be fair).
Direct3dlicious (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Direct3dlicious (Score:2)
Yes, but maybe not for long. (Score:5, Informative)
Cool! (Score:3, Informative)
He did say something about them breaking easy though. So I bought the extended warranty, of course.
Graphics = Icing, Gameplay = Cake (Score:4, Funny)
Quake 1:
Gameplay=cake, Graphics=sprinkles
Result: Tastes like nice cake
Half Life 2:
Gameplay=cake, Graphics=icing
Result: Tastes like premium cake
Doom 3:
Gameplay=shit, Graphics=icing
Result: Tastes like shit with a hint of sugar
PCIx (Score:2, Interesting)
It is great that these cards are supporting great features such as parallax mapping however being able to offload algorithms for collision and other extremely processor intensive functions will be the biggest boon for not only games, but all kinds of graphical simulations.
Until then, the best we will get is the same quality games rendering pret
Thjat will look soooo cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thjat will look soooo cool (Score:2)
Re:Thjat will look soooo cool (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I had a fun time, but it wore thin to the point I played in hour-long spurts. In Half-Life 2, on the other hand, all the constant variety had me up all night playing.
What I don't understand... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What I don't understand... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What I don't understand... (Score:2)
grfx CAN enhance gameplay (Score:3, Interesting)
- shadows. eg players casting shadows add a strategic element to gameplay.
- water effects. eg players can hide in water. depending on lighting conditions, the water can be transparent or reflective.
- HDR effects. eg. if you just came out from darkness (hiding) it should be a disadvantage to you.
- motion blur. eg if you use a rapid fire weapon you should be disadvantaged b/c you should experience vibration.
having said this, however, i don't see any other gameplay altering graphics features. from now on, all i expect to see is a steady march towards more realistic rendering.
Great Graphics, Uninspired Gameplay. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm impressed by what they're accomplishing in terms graphics. It's fascinating to me. At the same I have no desire to play any of those games because they all provide the same generic experience. It's like there's a game design template that all these developers grab ideas from. For all the innovation in graphics there is very little being done in story-telling, gameplay or mechanics. What about AI that can learn and adapt to the player? Apparently FEAR has some good AI, but it's basically reactionary, and the game itself is a lame take on generic Japanese horror movies; the developers watched the Ring one time too many.
There certainly is a place for ultra-realistic games. However, that these kinds of games don't inherently negate every other genre; less-realistic games aren't inferior. Is chess any less of a game because I can play a PC strategy game that runs pixel shader 3.0?
The marketing people spout the generic drivel that they're opening new vistas in gaming. We'll I have yet to see anything even remotely on that scale. These people have convinced the average, ignorant consumer that graphics are the pinnacle of good gaming making it difficult for anyone with less than the most advanced graphics to compete effectively.
These new games require massive budgets, a legion of employees and several years to complete. There's no way in hell an independent developer can compete on those terms. It's likely why Nintendo has decided to focus on gameplay over advanced graphics. The flashy graphics will impress everyone initially, but the excitement dies quickly the game itself offers nothing new.
The key question is, can you convince people that your game is superior based primarily on gameplay? I think it's a difficult proposition nowadays, the gameplay had better be phenomenal.
Meh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no formula that says "gameplay = 1 - graphics"
It is entirely possible to have a game that looks good and plays well.
It's also very possible to have a game that looks bad and plays bad. And plenty of old games were bad. The classics are classics because they were good, not just because they're old and don't have the same graphical quality as modern games.
Quite a lot of classics actually did have excellent graphics for their time, and it was one of the things that contributed to their classic status in the first place.
Re:Meh (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe that was exactly his point.
The newest game I play is about 5 years old now. The one I play most often 7.
I can't really remember the last time I bought a game, because I don't need to for gameplay. And I haven't bought a new video card for 5 years.
Because I don't need to for gameplay.
KFG
Re:Meh (Score:5, Interesting)
You're like the guy who goes around mentioning that he doesn't watch TV, [theonion.com] only for you it's games.
You have a point, in that a game should stand or fall on its gameplay rather than how pretty it looks. No matter how much you dress up chess, if you don't enjoy the actual game you're not likely to find something like Battle Chess much more than a novelty. I guess there's a certain truth if one were to argue that any gameplay element that exists today can be replicated in text mode, but with richer visuals comes the ability to have all the tried & true gameplay presented in a way that is really engaging.
Re:Meh (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't remember the last time I turned on my television, but it's not something I'd go around mentioning. It's not an "issue" for me. I've been more interested in other things. Games, music, engineering,literature, they're all just more interesting at most given moments.
. .
No, my point is that it is because I enjoy t
Re:Meh (Score:2)
He's right! You sound exactly like that guy in the Onion article! :)
Re:Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with this "it used to be so much better" crap is that just because it's old, doesn't mean it's good. The thing is: the crappy old games are long forgotten.
It's just like with 'old' music. "There is so much crap right now, music in the 60s/70s/80s/whatever_period was so much better". No it wasn't, there was just as much crap around then as there is now, only the good songs 'stuck' and are still being played.
Another example: "Oh, this $OLD_DEVICE still works after 20 years while my $NEW_DEVICE broke down after 2 years. They don't make 'em like they used to". Bullshit, it's just that the stuff made then that broke down after 2 years got thrown away 18 years ago.
People have very selective memories.
Immersion (Score:2)
If you're simulating a real world that people have preconceived notions of, detailed virtual environments become a very powerful tool.
Re:Immersion (Score:2, Insightful)
Your brain can add details but only if it thinks the details belong there. And you never get close enough to see the lack of detail.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
There's so much effort being put into 3D engines now that the added effort of making an innovative game makes it all the more expensive. Publishers and hardware companies have chosen their priority, and it is the visuals. That's why we get to have $400 consoles like the XBox 360 and upcoming Playstation 3, geared solely toward hardcore freaks.
That's why I love my Nintendo DS and Gameboy. The graphics are just enough to facilitate pleasing visuals without requiring a team of 3D programmers, so the rest is all about the gameplay. And hey, Nintendo might actually have a shot by targeting the mainstream audience with the Revolution and not the upper echelon like the other companies who think it's some amazing thing to see sweat effects on a basketball player model. And have you seen the Revolution compared to the other systems? It's got the form factor of a Mac mini but even thinner. I had no idea the thing was so small. It's great.
Anyway, I think gaming has shifted toward consoles because you don't have to deal with things like Pixel Shader 2.1 and 3.0 or "X1000 series" or other things. You just buy for your system. And obviously I think Nintendo is the most likely to keep things fun and not obsessed with visual effects that look dated 12 months later (remember when Doom 3 looked cool? Two months later I was totally bored with its dated ugliness).
Re:Meh (Score:2)
By 'other systems' I assume you are talking about the 360 and the PS3.
Well, the PS3 and the Revolution haven't been released yet. I am sure that very few people have actually seen the Revolution AND the PS3. Are you one of them?
The 360 is not 'geared solely toward hardcore freaks.'
Xbox Live Arcade- check into it. [joystiq.com]
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Shots of the consoles [kotaku.com]
Clearer comparison of all the consoles from multiple angles, side by side [ps3forums.com]
As you can see, the Nintendo Revolution is slightly wider than the width of a DVD, much like the Mac mini. In fact, it's about the size of a PC DVD drive. The other systems are quite large in
Re:Meh (Score:2)
How about the one that says "we have x developers and have to ship by y"?
Re:Meh (Score:3, Insightful)
Why don't you go out and get those classics, and after playing them again tell us what you think.
I did just that, grabbing MAME32 and all of the old greats that I was sure laid waste to anything created today. Boy was I surprised to learn that not only the graphics were crappy, but the gameplay really was crap as well. It was only entertaining then because it was novel, and of course we have a fancy way of remember things much better, or much worse, than they really
Re:Meh (Score:2)