Microsoft IE 7 Goes (More) Beta 292
Hans W. Smith writes "Microsoft has unveiled Internet Explorer 7, releasing the new "preview" version of its Web browser to the general public for testing. The latest version works only with Windows XP Service Pack 2 and includes many of the features Microsoft has been touting for months such as: privacy protection,tabbed browsing and a search box similar to Firefox. They tried to outdo Firefox tab browsing with a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window."
Yup, you saw it yesterday. Posting before coffee never works.
"Quick Tab" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2, Insightful)
The drag and dropping of the tabs was a welcome addition to Firefox for me - it's still not as slick as Omniweb, but it's getting there.
Now they just need to implement 'Workspaces' from Omniweb into Firefox/Seamonkey in as simple a way as possible, and then I can say a sad farewe
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:3, Informative)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:3, Informative)
And Shiira on OS X has a similar feature called tab exposé: http://hmdt-web.net/shiira/screenshot/en#tabExpos
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2, Informative)
Omniweb Features [omnigroup.com]
I hope that gives a vague idea - but somethings like the Workspace feature are best to be seen in action:
Press F2, and you get your ebay workspace with it's own history and set of pages up
Press F3, and you get your online comics all loading up in their own tabs come up.
Press F1, and you get your news + slashdot workspace. etc. etc.
The thumbnail tab browsing can be turned to text/thumbnail depending o
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2, Informative)
How about Mozilla and SeaMonkey? (Score:2)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2, Informative)
Or you may try the Reveal [mozilla.org] extension.
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
Can we stop saying this already? Firefox is lean and mean by default on purpose. It's a well known fact that users are put off by too much customization options. Default Firefox offers a very well balanced combination of few options and intuitive functionality. Add extensions if you need them. Have a simple browser otherwise. It's the best of both worlds from my humble point of view.
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
I think that quick tab thing looks like an unmentionable appendage, hangin out of its enclosure. Totally ugly. Here's a little piece of information that all you foXpose people don't realize: Double click on the tab bar and you get a new tab. Woaaaa! And you don't even have to see the ugly appendage. I bet microsoft missed that when they were looking through firefox to grab features. Also, Why doesn't Ctrl+K get you to the google search box?
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:3, Informative)
As I believe at least one poster has pointed out, thumbnail image tabs have been around in Omniweb [omnigroup.com] on the Mac platform for a while.
Thumbnail tabs aren't for everyone or every application. But they're more than a visual gimmick if you use them properly. A picture is worth a thousand words -- and you can only get about two words on a tab without clicking it. I find a row of iconified web pages easier to sort, particularly before you get really zeroed in on something. If you're a visual person, this might be
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
Re:"Quick Tab" (Score:2)
"Quick tabs" just show how counterproducutive tabs are in the first place. One must ask, why not just have the pages in seperate windows?
Because the Windows task bar (and other task bars that copy it) absolutely suck at dealing with large numbers of windows at one time. Nicer Window managers utilizing virtual desktops, expose, etc. do a better job, but grouping windows as one tabbed window does make sense for certain applications. I mean, have you ever had thirty browser windows open at once and tried to
That's actually not the latest version (Score:5, Funny)
-Eric
IE7 is a dupe! (Score:5, Informative)
http://viamatic.com/index.php/firefox [viamatic.com]
And M$ says to dev, please install IE7 Beta and test your pages... except that if I do that, it kills IE6, and I can't check my pages as they'll be seen by 90% of visitors...
Re:IE7 is a dupe! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IE7 is a dupe! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:IE7 is a dupe! (Score:2, Informative)
developers (Score:2)
one of the machines has to have no more than a 15" vga 800X600 res monitor connected to the internet at 56k
Re:developers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:IE7 is a dupe! (Score:3, Insightful)
And M$ says to dev, please install IE7 Beta and test your pages... except that if I do that, it kills IE6, and I can't check my pages as they'll be seen by 90% of visitors...
This is part of the problem with the archaic install/uninstall system for programs on Windows. On OS X, most programs are completely self contained. They use a "folder is the application" metaphor, where double clicking on the folder (which ends in .app) launches the application, but at the same time you can open up the folder and se
Re:IE7 is a dupe! (Score:2)
I shouldn't have to remind people on /. that beta software should not be ran/tested on a production machine whether it's made by Microsoft, Adobe, or even a game. Beta does not mean stable!
I'd agree for servers, but for workstations it is usually not a big deal at all. I don't even bother to use a separate account for most beta software. I mean, has anyone ever had problems with this on anything but Windows? The absolute worst case scenario I've seen in the last several years was the application coring
Arn't they bored? (Score:2, Insightful)
I know in the 90s it looked like who ever won the browser wars would take over the world, but 10 years on that seems to be the business logic of the underpant gnomes. Why don't they just give up, and distribute Firefox, SeaMonkey or some Gecko based wonder, instead of IE?
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
After restarting the browser and restoring all of my tabs with their history (Tab Browser Extension), it's using 70MB instead of 250.
Maybe the problem is with the tab browser extension, maybe it's with Firefox. I haven't seen much improvement in its memory usage since I upgraded a while back.
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
If you don't want someone to criticize IE for having memory leaks, I suggest you don't criticize Firefox's memory usage.
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
It does, I'm using Windows 2000 pro and I did the test with some very heavy pages (a pair of Fark image threads) that bumped the memory used by FF to over 500Mb and increasing (i killed the tabs before it was completely loaded), and Firefox did get back to around 150Mb of ram consumption (which is more or less how I set it) as soon as the offending tabs were closed.
I think you should probably be very careful with the FF extensions, that's often where the worst issues lie, Adblock is a repeated and known of
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
I really don't notice it though on my linux boxen...
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:3, Informative)
But with use, and exstensive tab use I will still climb into the hundreds of megs, even with the process idling. (App closed). As said above, the only way to clear u
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
I don't think that's the case. If Microsoft wanted Internet Explorer to keep up with the other browsers, it would have done. But both the Internet Explorer developer teams were disbanded and the developers either left Microsoft or worked on other things. That's not a case of the developers being unable to keep up, that's a case of management deliberately discontinuing development.
Can you really say that web t
Re:Arn't they bored? (Score:2)
For one thing, it would break a ton of both MS and third party apps developed to make use of the IE renderer.
Microsoft should thank Firefox (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe at their next huge product release, Microsoft could give some credit to Mozilla and Firefox for helping them make a better browser? Just a thought.
Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (Score:2)
Now, you know that won't happen. That was a carefully written statement you quoted. What's left unsaid is that Firefox had all these features first. Again, Microsoft isn't going to admit that in any kind of written form.
As has been said several times in posts here, the really sad part is that a lot of people will adopt IE7 (mainly because Microsoft's EOL/EOS update cycle will force them to do so), never knowing about the alternatives.
Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (Score:2)
Justifications suck all around.
css fixes? (Score:2, Insightful)
Did they fix position:fixed?
Did they fix float messing up other blocks?
(I can't try it, as I use Windows 2000 Server.)
Re:css fixes? (Score:3, Interesting)
1.) Unzipping/extracting the distro file's files to an IE7 folder
2.) Deleting the UPDATE subfolder that formed under it
3.) Deleting the shlwapi.dll in that IE7 folder you made & extracted the IE7 distro files to
4.) + lastly creating a BLANK FILE called IEXPLORE.exe.local with notepad.exe & putting it into the IE7 folder you made & extracted all the files from the Ie7 distro into.
*
(Fact is, in doing THAT above mys
Re:css fixes? (Score:2)
Re:css fixes? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, yes and yes [msdn.com].
I appreciate that it's a genuine question, but a completely information-free comment should not be Score: 4, Insightful.
Re:css fixes? (Score:2)
grow up (Score:2, Informative)
About the article..as for me, I'm really looking forward to IE7. For all the great aspects of firefox, it still has many shortcoming, like being extremely slow and opening the occasional webpage incorrectly.
If IE7 can offer tab browsing and do a reasonable job, I might just switch back over. If it sucks, then I'll just stick with my
Ajax? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ajax? (Score:2)
Re:Ajax? (Score:2)
If you're using existing framework, not much, except that users with ActiveX disabled (corporate security issues mainly) will be able to use your page, while they currently aren't.
For the framework devs or the guys who prefer to roll out their own system/architecture on the other hand, the code paths will be noticeably simplified.
MS flip flop (Score:3, Insightful)
In 5 years they tell everyone they invented tabbed browsing years befor Opera and Firefox...
Re:MS flip flop (Score:4, Informative)
Re:MS flip flop (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you missed the words "Opera and" in the post you're replying to. But maybe I'm being too critical - after all, he used a whole TWO sentences, taking up a massive TWO lines of text.
Its still not firefox (Score:3, Insightful)
Say what you like about IE (Score:5, Interesting)
So? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wandering (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it that Microsoft is short of geeks? Is it so complex software that third-party developers are more effective and progressive then in-house developers?!
Anyway, why are the browsers evolving so slowly? Look where is the 3D gaming industry! Look what progress they did. And now look what progress we (browser vendors) did on the WWW! I don't think that there is less money on the web then in the gaming industry...
So why is it?
(Is the main reason the insufficient cooperation ? Don't they see that competition in this area instead of cooperation hurts everybody? Look where IE ended up with thier individual and aggresive stance.)
Re:Wandering (Score:2)
MSIE is much more than just a browser. It's a basic component of the Windows OS. So, they have to be careful not to change the API. They also try to remain compatible with existing (broken!) sites.
Firefox is no component. It's just the browser. Compatibility is no issue. They also care less about 'correct' rendering of broken sites.
Hurts: WINDOWS -} IE -} WWW -} ME {=} WINDOWS -}ME (Score:2)
I don't really care if the IE is a component or not. I don't see any reason why should I break my web site compatibility with standards to be compatible with browser that tries to be compatible with Windows because it is A WIN COMPONENT.
As a web developer I
new screenshots here ! (Score:3, Funny)
Page thumbnails (Score:2)
Adblock (Score:2, Interesting)
Needs "Genuine Advantage" validation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Needs "Genuine Advantage" validation (Score:2, Insightful)
Now, I am an Opera fan (Score:5, Insightful)
I realized at that point, I had become one of the many Opera fans who have made similar posts about firefox and how Opera had x,y, & z first.
IE 7's Rendering Abilities seem worse (Score:3, Informative)
Re:IE 7's Rendering Abilities seem worse (Score:4, Informative)
IE7 isn't compatible with IE6 bugs and hacks anymore, but it's still far behind other browsers in standards compiliance. That's going to be a real plain for web developers - both IE and non-IE code breaks in IE7.
IE7 Still has incomplete PNG support (Score:3, Interesting)
To check, look at my site in QuickTabs (www.binaryidiot.com)
Microsoft manages to do the impossible (Score:2)
Yet Microsoft has managed to do the impossible; the screen real-estate reserved for the tabs is SO f**kin small, that anything more than a few tabs will already crowd the interface.
Anyway, what I want to know is; has Microsoft fixed the major bug with JavaScript closures causing memory leaks?
I tried it ... some thoughts. (Score:5, Informative)
2. Fails the Acid2 test miserably
3. They've moved the Refresh button to the right of the address bar, while the Forward and Back buttons remain in the same position
4. The "Stop Navigation" button has also been moved over to the right. They've also changed the look of the button to a red "X", so that it now looks like a "close something" button instead of a "stop this action" button.
5. They've "fixed" the functionality that allows you to utilize many CSS hacks to compensate for IE's rendering flaws, however they haven't fixed the underlying bugs that the "hacks" were intended to fix. As a result, a lot of sites I checked out that rendered just fine in all current browsers (including IE6) are now broken in IE7, because the "hacks" no longer work in IE7, but thier standards complience is still shoddy, and thier box-model still sucks.
6. The graphics for the tabs looks "clunky" as compared to other tabbed browsers.
7. They've hidden the main menu, so now you have to go through a few clicks to find the options that used to be only 1 or 2 clicks away.
Overall, I hope they don't think that this release is close to production readiness. They've changed a number of things just so that they look different, while in the process breaking a number of UI conventions that have long been established an work.
They've still got a lot of work to do in thier CSS support
They claim to have fixed
One thing I can applaud them on is that they've added the ability to use XMLHttpRequest without using thier proprietary ActiveX control, which will simplify those of us writing AJAX code into our web apps. They claim the old ActiveX method will still work for legacy support though.
So, that's my take. They've come a long way from IE6
Enough of the tabs already (Score:2)
I know a few web developers that have been IE diehards and use FF for the source code highlighting. They don't use tabs, don't know what tabs are, and don't want to know how to use tabs. It really bugs be because they'll have 5 FF windows open at one time.
Re:Enough of the tabs already (Score:3, Informative)
However, If you want contextual highlighting on IE view-source, just replace your OS-supplied notepad with one of the developer's notepad apps out there.
Run IE7 locally without replacing IE6 (Score:5, Informative)
Simply download the installer, use WinRAR or similar to unpack the installer into a folder, add an empty file called "iexplore.exe.local" then run iexplore.exe.
No having to uninstall IE6, or even install IE7 at all. The interface gets a bit messed up but it's definitely running a new engine (still some CSS bugs I can see tho, tut tut....)
Re:Run IE7 locally without replacing IE6 (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, so installing IE7 as a stand-alone with the hack you mentioned messes up the interface. That's a bug you can see that's obvious. What are the non-obvious bugs that get introduced as a result of this hack? I don't know, and there is no way of knowing without some serious regression testing.
For now, the only option for a developer is to have IE7 installed on another machin
Re:Run IE7 locally without replacing IE6 (Score:4, Informative)
So overall, DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU DON'T MIND BREAKING WINDOWS EXPLORER AND IE6!!!
Channel 9 Video (Score:2, Informative)
"Quick Tabs" still following open source browsers. (Score:2)
Shiira is an open source browser that's based, like Safari, on Apple's KHTML port (the Webkit framework on OS X 10.3 and later)... which is also open source.
Tab Exposé screenshot [hmdt-web.net]
Tab Exposé movie [hmdt-web.net]
Shiira English home page [hmdt-web.net]
How to Run Both IE6 and IE7 PB2 On the Same PC (Score:4, Informative)
This page explains how you can run both on the same PC without needing a virtual machine. It works well for me.
http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2005/12/
Where's the... (Score:2, Insightful)
Reveal is another Firefox Quick Tab option (Score:2)
https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.ph
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:5, Insightful)
How many regular browser users ever change a setting for that browser? How many firefox users install extensions?
Microsoft realises the mose people use software out of the box, and never touch settings. They don't expect the mainstream of people wil tweak into oblivion and so they choose to make a browser which has everything as it should as default.
(This is about the same way opera does their browser. Did you ever check how many extensions there are for firefox? Are they all the same quality/stability? Do you check all those extensions once a month to see for any new ones?)
Look, I'm not trying to be a flamebait here, but simplicity is key for the most Microsoft software users. It's just that simple...
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong...I won't be going back to IE. But I think a 'vanilla' version of Firefox or Opera is what most people will be considering, when moving away from IE. a better approach would be to 'adopt' plugins into the base code with each major release...gradually increase the featureset, that can be enabled/disabled via the default install.
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:3, Interesting)
Default can suck (Score:2)
IE's default settings have for years been a pain in the side of computer maintainers everywhere.
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
The first rule of Microsoft is: Let's make it as easy so blind monkeys can use it. All else comes as an afterthought.
Did I ever state Microsoft should be applauded? No! But they make a coherent package, with lots of default stuff (and crap). That's my whole point.
(I actually hate Microsoft for all the right reasons and type this sentence right now in opera on my Mandriva box. Don't think I'm a Micr
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
If you like m$ so be it but don't hide behind a cloak with this illogical crap about how they are doing things right in the browser market.
Right for whom? Companies act in the way that they think is right for them. Some of them think it's worth trying to keep the techno-utopian nerds happy, some think it's too expensive. The fact that you call them "m$" is a good indication that it'd take a large investment for them to get you to like them. You're just making their decision easier.
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
This kind of thing doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to develop, the question is, which got the idea from whom?
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
This kind of thing doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to develop, the question is, which got the idea from whom?
Perhaps they both copied it from Apple's Expose feature which does the same thing, but for all windows in the GUI. I'd guess Foxpose at least was copied from there, given the name.
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
However, Safari doesn't do this, so you can't see the individual tabs in a safari window through expose.
Re:Thumbnail view (Score:2)
However, Safari doesn't do this, so you can't see the individual tabs in a safari window through expose.
And it is completely inconceivable to you that multiple UI designers, when looking for a way to make a whole series of grouped windows easy to sort through, would not look at one of the more prominent new ways of doing just that, and copy it for within their application? Any GUI designer that has not looked at expose and tabs and considered them as a model for their application, should probably be fire
Re:SP2? (Score:2)
Re:SP2? (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsofts stance on security would be best placed in tha area of finding and plugging holes. Part of me wonders: Does MS have any team of people that look for security holes in windows? Or do they just wait until some 3rd party comes out with a release about a newly discovered hole and THEN decide to fix it.
This isn't intended to bash MS, because i use and pretty much depend on their products, but it is meant to maybe gander at their priorities. As a USER of their software I probably care about MS security a lot more than the people who DON'T use it and just bash it on here.
Re:Ready for prime time? (Score:2, Informative)
Really?? It failed miserably when I tried it. The pieces were spread all over the screen, some with scroll bars, and all layered in front of a big red background.
Heh ... even if you graded them on a curve, they'd still get a D, since Firefox almost gets the acid2 test right.
It quick renders Digg.com (sometimes it takes ages on IE6), but I can barely click on the One Pixel Banner.
It renders Digg's HOME page fine, but click around the site, and you'll start noti
Re:Not gonna try it (Score:2)
Re:IE 7 and 6 live peacefully together? (Score:2)
Re:IE 7 and 6 live peacefully together? (Score:2, Informative)