Windows Genuine Advantage Gets More Lenient 228
Troglodyte writes in with word that Microsoft is revamping its Windows Genuine Advantage program so that it labels fewer users pirates. WGA now has a third category besides "genuine and "not genuine," called "not sure." Quoting: "[I]t's quite obvious what is going on here: Microsoft has added 'not sure' as a way of cutting down on the number of false positives associated with WGA. As many as one in five PCs were failing WGA checks, but this new setting should both reduce this and give Microsoft the chance to investigate further the kinds of things that are landing folks in the 'not sure' category."
First Post (Score:5, Funny)
Re:First Post (Score:5, Funny)
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Not sure? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
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Matey (Score:5, Funny)
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So (Score:5, Funny)
1. Not a pirate
2. Pirate
3. Ninja
A serious Win for MS (Score:2)
Re:So (Score:5, Informative)
#4 - A windows Volume license install that then had the WGA patched plus the install key changed to a regular Pro key that was keygened and thus passes the WGA test perfectly. Even Windows Media player 11 is happy with it.
WGA is so incredibly easy to get past it's not funny. set the patched WGA dll to read only and updates cant overwrite it.
Re:So (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:So (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, especially if you think about Windows and benefit in the same sentence.
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Damn, ninjas are just awesome.
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Have YOU ever had to argue with Microsoft to get another activation code? Has anyone you know (in real life, not on the net) had to argue with Microsoft to get a code? Every single time I have needed a new code I've called up the number that appears on the screen, told them that the motherboard failed and I replaced it, and then they gave me a new code.
Having to "argue" with
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Now trying to get another activation code out of an OEM... I'd be willing to believe that is a headache.
No, actually, in my experience it's not a problem. I work on systems for folks on the side, and it's fairly often that I have to replace an OEM mainboard with a retail one. Every time I've done so (I can remember at least 5 times), I've called Microsoft and after answering yes to "Is this the only computer this key is used on?", received an activation code.
Re:Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
I personally had to argue with Microsoft to get an activation code for Windows XP. The hard drive on my IBM Thinkpad failed, and I replaced it under warranty. Windows refused to authenticate using the product key printed on the bottom of my computer, saying the key was invalid. (I had bought the computer directly from IBM, which I expect eliminates the possibility this was a bogus key.) I called the Microsoft authentication hotline, which had an automated voice that insisted that I read out loud the 54-digit code that Windows provided. I tried typing it in, but it ignored me. When I read it out loud, the Hotline told me that number was invalid and hung up on me.
I called back. This time, I didn't try to read it the 54 digits again. When I was silent, it hung up on me. So I called back again. This time, I made random noises at it. After five minutes of random noises (which was quite amusing to those working nearby), I finally got hold of a person.
It took 20 minutes to convince the person at the other end of the phone that my license was legitimate. They gave me a new key to enter. Windows said the key was valid, and everything seemed ok.
Then I rebooted, and Windows again said I had an invalid key. I had to call back again, make random noises for five minutes--my coworkers were laughing hysterically--and get a new key. I told them to wait until my machine rebooted, and they said they couldn't. I asked for a way to reach them directly without making noises at their stupid voicemail, and she said there wasn't a way. While I rebooted, I said I wanted to speak to a supervisor. She waited a moment and then said there was a supervisor there--but I couldn't speak to him. She would relay what he said. (Yeah, right, Microsoft.) The "supervisor" told me I should type the "0" key on the phone when I got the first voicemail prompt, which would connect me back to a human operator. I said I didn't believe that would work (since I had tried typing the number already, when it insisted I read it). She laughed and said the "supervisor" had told her to tell me that, and she hung up on me. At least my stalling tactic worked--she stayed on the line until the machine rebooted so I could confirm it wasn't useless key.
I have lived through Microsoft's reactivation hell, personally. It's not FUD.
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Your experience closely mirrors my own, just a month ago. Except in my case it was an HP system, and after getting fucked-over once, I went to http://astalavista.box.sk/ [astalavista.box.sk] and downloaded and used WGA crack v2.0. Problem solved.
If th
Re:Actually (Score:4, Interesting)
Little known fact: Keys from major OEMs printed on stickers on your box / under your laptop are DUMMY KEYS. You can install the OS with them, but it will NOT activate.
If you use manufacturer's recommended recovery method (Recovery CD, recovery partition), the key is never asked. If you use some other media, the key is accepted, but it _will not activate_. If you call MS and actually get a human, they usually give you a new key when you explain the situation, but the sticker key not working is WORKING AS DESIGNED.
The sticker keys used to work, but then people stole them by writing them down from PCs (shocking!), so the MS answer was to make them essentially duds.
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This loss does not include the losses from sales resistance as a result of badwill, etc from customer annoya
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The very fact that you need to call to prove your innocent of piracy should be very insulting to you.
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I got a better idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Just do away with all this crap and stop bothering paying customers. Hackers will always find a way around whatever scheme MS or any other company devises. It's just a fact of life. If humans make it, humans can break it. Vista is already hacked and it will always continue. HDDVD has met the same fate.
gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Meaning of not sure (Score:2)
Re:I got a better idea (Score:5, Informative)
Very true, but in the 90s, companies pirating mass quanities of MS software was a major concern. Not only did it kill MS revenue, but it screwed consumers as they thought the copies they were buying were legitimate.
From working in the OEM world at that time, even our trusted vendors would often have workers that would offer 'discounted' OEM copies of MS software from another company all the time. It was so bad that our company had to put in place buying policies to ensure only geniune copies were ever purchased. And even with that policy in place, we had several hundred fake copies of MS software slip through OEM distributors that themselves didn't realize the copies were fake.
This is where all this crap started, but in the process MS lost sight of the goal of ensuring consumers didn't get screwed.
People in MS honestly think the Activation and Keys and WGA were good things to help the consumers to ensure they didn't get worthless copies.
MS just needs a real wakeup call that there are alternatives to dealing with mass production piracy that DO NOT harm or even bother the consumers.
Digital distribution could actually be a real solution as the control of licensing and purchasing could potentially be more easily controlled than relying on Keys and WGA to ensure copies weren't obtained from shady companies.
I don't agree with MS on this, although I do have understanding of where and why all this protection crap started.
Re:I got a better idea (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Piracy" HELPED Microsoft in the 90's. (Score:5, Interesting)
And Novell tracked each license number by company. You could transfer your license to a different company by sending Novell a letter on your company's letterhead.
Microsoft couldn't distinguish between the serial number for a mouse and the serial number for NT server. Microsoft didn't keep a record of what licenses you had registered. They couldn't even tell you if you HAD registered any licenses.
So you could get one license code for NT server and install 1,000 "pirated" servers.
And Microsoft liked it like that. That gave them the edge over Novell.
Now that Microsoft's competition is practically dead, Microsoft is looking for ways to increase their revenue by making sure that every single license is paid for. Just like Novell was doing in the 90's.
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Re:"Piracy" HELPED Microsoft in the 90's. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good, because ultimately it will be Microsoft's undoing. Small shops that were 100% Microsoft but were able to do so only by paying for what they cord afford and pirating what they couldn't will now be forced to dump Microsoft or stick with older versions of Microsoft software because the new versions are so locked down they can no longer engage in the casual copying they used to engage in to upgrade those PC's that they otherwise couldn't afford to upgrade. They'll then focus on finding less expensive or free alternatives that can integrate with the existing Microsoft software that they are running. Standards suddenly become important to these shops and they are now open to and aware of alternatives they were not open to or aware of before. Suddenly paying the Microsoft tax seems more and more ridiculous.
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And... (Score:2)
MS in the 90's (Score:2)
The 90's??? The 1990's??? The decade in which MS stock went from sixty cents a share to sixty dollars a share? Those 90's?
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I did say 'kill' not killed. lol
MS also seems to forget that a lot of the original adoption of Windows 3.x was from pirated copies getting PC users into a GUI and away from single tasking DOS apps.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Not to worry, the Chinese will be able to shoot down their laser communications satellite soon...
SB
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I received a call from a friend of my grandmother who had purchased Windows XP and installed it on her friends computer and her own. It wouldn't let her activate one of the computers (so I believe it went more than those two places). When the 30 day grace period was up she called MS support and told them the truth. They of course refused to activate the software. She had no idea she wasn't able to share the softwar
Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you think people inside MS are starting to finally stop listening to Ballmer and his business/money only mentality?
It could be quite earth shaking for MS to start caring about consumers more than $$ again.
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Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm a PC
I'm not sure
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Oh please (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Interesting)
Though My first thought was that they wanted to cut down on customers getting the invalid key. Out of every million, 200,000 people where being told that their once valid copies were no longer valid. So in order to cut down on False Postives they added another point. So out of a million customers you have 150,000 peopling calling to say WTF fix this, and 50,000 pirates.
Their numbers still add up but the PR dept doesn't have to work so hard.
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That key is a single use single instance key - one consumer can have it.
However, 2 people register with Microsoft for it - one of them is a pirate, the other isn't (or both are..)
How can you tell?
Then, take one volume licensing key which was purchased for a company to do 20000 installations worldwide.
That key gets used 20001 times, which is the pirate?
Turn off the wrong machine and you just lost that entire customer of thousands of machines ('cos the boss
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't work that way. VLKs are basically on the honor system.
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Now each machine has its own valid XP Pro license, it's just a whole lot less of a pain in the ass to setup one mach
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Every place that I know of with a VLK is very strict with who has access to it. In some cases, they are non-profit groups who simply can't afford to play with fire. If they lost their non-profit licen
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What defines "two different machines"? What if you put the HD, ram, video card into a new mobo +case? New computer or old? Which has a valid claim to the license? What if the old computer dies instantly with no time to go through some kind of 'key deactivation' process?
Thats what WGA tries to help with, but apparently doesn't do too well.
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Informative)
For quite some time, the key algorithm for the Volume License copies of XP has been cracked. They're perfectly valid keys, they simply haven't actually been sold to anyone. That's why they can't use the same algorithm, and why they have to keep this magic database of "actually sold" keys to compare against. I have no idea how this database was generated, but I'm willing to bet it was cobbled together, and that Microsoft had no real easy way of knowing which keys were sold and which were not, which resulted in a highly error prone database.
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There's other variables. There's volume licensing, there's tying each license to a specific set of hardware involved and documenting all that. Make no bones about it, I'm
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I mean, how hard can it be? The key either is valid or it isn't. Compare the key for validity using the same algorithm that Windows installation uses and compare it against the database of invalidated keys and that's it. No other software products have no problems with validating keys, why is this causing so much problems for Microsoft?
Well, considering I've gotten WGA "not genuine" notices [trojantirade.org] while using a perfectly valid key, and I'm not alone - simply installing the wrong program can cause "not genuine" notices [microsoft.com], I'd say Microsoft's system is slightly more complicated than "see if key is valid".
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I'm guessing the change is that Microsoft no longer considers you to be a pirate if your license key is marked with "seen on BitTorrent", just "Not Sure".
Wow I was right (Score:4, Informative)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=218426&cid=17
I hate to say it but "I told you so!"
Ok, I enjoy saying it
So it's safe to upgrade my computer now? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So it's safe to upgrade my computer now? (Score:4, Funny)
Now how about activation (Score:5, Interesting)
I have never had trouble using pirated editions of Windows. Regardless of this softened WGA check, Microsoft punishes their legitimate customers. Period.
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But thanks for assuming the worst.
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Windows Freebooter (Score:3, Funny)
Are you listening Microsoft? Here is an opportunity to make some money. Package and sell the pirated version as 'Windows Freebooter', perhaps for a $50 premium over regular price. Seriously, I'll bet there's a market for it.
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Due to my poor experiences with activation and the very high price I've decided to wait quite some time before moving on to Vista. In fact, I tried Ubuntu and a few other Linux distros a few weeks ago just to see my alternatives. Believe it or not, I find the freeware/FOSS scene superior in Windows in terms of quality, availability, and all-round u
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I feel for you. I like little indie games, and for the most part I've had to just learn to live with my GameCube, Wii, and Nintendo DS games. Oh, Flash games work in theory, too.
Anyhow, dual-booting can work... but I dislike stopping everything I'm working on just to play a game (which is why my DS and cell phone come in handy so often). I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with Linux, though!
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That 's a quite good question MS people is asking you. Maybe you should try to answer it.
Ah, three-way boolean logic! (Score:2)
magic (Score:5, Funny)
* Signs point to yes.
* Yes.
* Most likely.
* Without a doubt.
* Yes - definitely.
* As I see it, yes.
* You may rely on it.
* Chances are good.
* It is certain.
* It is decidedly so.
* Reply hazy, try again.
* Better not tell you now.
* Ask again later.
* Concentrate and ask again.
* Cannot predict now.
* My sources say no.
* Very doubtful.
* My reply is no.
* Chances not so good.
* Don't count on it.
I can't believe it (Score:5, Funny)
* Outlook not so good.
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You caught the interior joke.
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That's an alias for:
* Yes
Missing Option (Score:2)
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It prompted - "You won't know what happens when you select this until afterwards" and displayed - ?
My instructor told me, "Now you're just being a jerk."
My genuine advange update blows up... (Score:2)
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Most of you must not remember win95/98 (Score:4, Insightful)
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Microsoft is not making any sense. (Score:5, Insightful)
So ask yourself this... in the current situation, why is microsoft investing so heavily in WGA? Surely, there are no more licenses to be sold.
But apparently there is. Microsoft has so narrowly defined the definition of a "legal copy of windows" that you really can't be sure.
If my Dell is smoked, and I replace the motherboard, apparently, I don't have a valid license? Or maybe I do. MS will let me know when they decide.
If I've changed too many things too many times in my PC (RAM, HD, Memory, etc), apparently, I am a software pirate. Go figure.
Going back to my original point. If MS is saying 1 of 5 PC's fail this test, they're saying 20% of all PC's don't have a license for Windows. If I assume that 2% of new PC's are sold in the U.S. without a Windows license, then what happened to those other 18% of licenses?
It doesn't add up.
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Not all distributors are honest.
If my Dell is smoked, and I replace the motherboard, apparently, I don't have a valid license?
I replaced my motherboard. I had to call in because the NIC was onboard and I couldn't get the drivers installed before I validated. I called in and the gal in India gave me a new key. It wasn't that big of a deal.
Here's the key for MS: I wi
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This is a possibility.
"- You may have only one PC, but you may have 1,000 virtual machines on it."
WGA wouldn't catch this. And I'm not clear in the rules on XP prevent this.
"You can build a PC instead of buying a prebuilt one."
My point is that this percentage is so small that it's not worth spending this much time to catch the few homebuilt PC's out there. Certainly, 1 out of 5 PC's it not homebuilt.
WGA update (Score:2)
Idiocracy (Score:2)
I guess it was running Windows Genuine Advantage.
The WGA tool is nasty narkware / malware (Score:2)
MS automated licensing (Score:5, Funny)
Joe: "Well, I'm not sure if--"
ID Processing Computer: "You have entered the license status of 'Not Sure'. Is this correct, Not sure?"
Joe: "No, it is not correct."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. 'Not' is correct. Is 'Sure' correct?
Joe: No, it's not. My license key is rm233-"
ID Processing Computer: "You've already confirmed that your license key starts with 'Not'."
ID Processing Computer: "Please confirm the last part of your key, 'Sure'."
Joe: "My ke-- The last part of my key is not sure. No."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. Your pirating status has been entered as Not Sure."
Joe: "What I mean is my status is legi--"
ID Processing Computer: "Confirmation is complete. Please wait while I tattoo your pirate status on all your word documents and email correspondences."
Joe: "Tattoo, wait what?!?"
Microsoft can't be too hard on piracy (Score:2)
Since Vista seems to be having a lukewarm reception, Microsoft is wisely making it easier to use.
you are a pirate ... arrrr (Score:3, Funny)
forcing this incredibly annoying song to go through your head all day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEBbu-wkKrs&mode=r
if that isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is
Patch (Score:2)
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Give credit where credit is due: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Rarely_Just_T RUE_or_FALSE.aspx [worsethanfailure.com]
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