HP Stops Selling Printers, Starts Selling Prints 346
An anonymous reader writes "HP has launched a new line of business printers but there's a big catch — you won't be able to buy one. For the first time in history, the company will make customers purchase printing services, rather than the product itself. At its biggest printer launch since the LaserJet in 1984, HP's new business-class Edgeline printers will only be available through a managed services contract. Pricing will be per page, depending on the quality of the printout. Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now."
Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:4, Interesting)
Ink for business printers is a lot cheaper than with consumer printers anyway. That's the nature of the business, you want a cheap printer, they want you to pay for the ink. If you want cheap ink, then you pay for a more expensive printer. HP and many other companies treat their consumer products differently from their business products because they are different markets with different expectations.
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Informative)
You do still get the print right away. The printer is physically present in your business but you pay a lease and pay for each page you print.
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Insightful)
You see, the current copier leasing model charges you a monthly fee for having the copier, as well as charging you a per-copy rate for each copy you make. The copier has a counter (or two counters for those that keep track of mono and multi color copies separately) and either a technician comes out and physically reads the counter, you are called on the telephone to read off the counter numbers to the company rep, or in some cases, your copier is called directly via it's own connection to your line, and the counters are read without physical user interaction.
So your internet connection has nothing to do with it.
HP is just not going to sell these commercial copiers to the companies that want them. HP is only going to lease them, and then instead of charging a monthly fee, they are going to charge based on the number of prints. They will most likely get these totals by one of the methods I described above, or quite possibly even over an internet connection, but you can be assured they will not have only ONE method of getting these totals. There will be multiple methods available to them to get the total numbers of prints per month, as it is how they are saying they are going to charge their customers.
These are not going to be print services over the internet. You are not going to connect your company computers to an HP server where they mail you the prints you make.
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Informative)
Did you RTFA? This is the technology we read on
"new Memjet technology can print 60 full-color pages per minute. Instead of having a print head that moves side to side like current inkjets, the print head spans the full width of the page."
From TFA:
"Edgeline uses a page-wide stationary print-head, decreasing wear and tear by removing contact with the paper."
Here's an amazing (unbelievable?) video of the Memjet printer in action [texyt.com]
I've been waiting for this ever since I heard of it: All the photographic quality of a inkjet with faster speeds than laser printers and saving ink to boot. Very disappointed we won't see it at home now, but it's only a matter of time before it filters down.
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:4, Interesting)
It would filter down a lot sooner if printer manufacturers would adopt this fantastic new business model where you charge what products are actually worth and not adopt this "buy this cheap, pay for extras to keep us afloat" mentality. This is just another version of a company wanting a constant, consistant revenue stream verses having to actually innovate and keep product lines fresh to get new sales.
Everyone wants to be a utility,
Re:Misleading Summary Title (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
HP doing what Xerox has done for years, Woo! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:HP doing what Xerox has done for years, Woo! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:-ING form of verbs! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:-ING form of verbs! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:-ING form of verbs! (Score:4, Funny)
Since Oskar Schindler saved thousands of Jews by employing them in his factories, the closest analogue would have to be the Slashdot editors, since they give all those grammar mistakes a place to stay.
Re:News for nerds, stuff that really matters (Score:5, Funny)
Bad Headline (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Bad Headline (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure why they are now just claiming that they are ink efficient. My HP DeskJet 400C was so ink efficient that I used the same black and white cartridge for 5 years in college until it completely broke down and several hardware rollers came out with the final page of my Senior Thesis.
I replaced it with another HP DeskJet expecting the same kind of service level but found that the printer hardware was cheap, the ink needed to be replaced MUCH MORE often (every two months at my levels), and that it was sometimes less money to buy a new DeskJet each time at Walmart than to replace the ink cartridge.
I don't own a printer any more and only use a printer at work when I absolutely must have something printed out (tax time is about the only thing I can think of in recent memory).
Let's go back to the ink efficient days of the DeskJet 400C and fuck these contract based service packages.
Re:Bad Headline (Score:4, Funny)
What? Are you one of those radical/liberals who place customer value and/or human rights above corporate profits? Infidel! Heathen!
Re:Bad Headline (Score:4, Informative)
I'd like to see the profit point on printers. How many ink cartridges do I have to buy for them to make up the loss on the hardware? Do companies plan for that payback over time? What is their estimate on how long it takes?
Layne
That's why you don't buy HP (Score:2, Flamebait)
Regardless of your technology choice, don't purchase an HP.
There are lots of excellent choices out there. I'm not sure why you'd choose HP.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Very good linux drivers?
It Depends... (Score:4, Interesting)
Thanks to the excellent Linux support by the HPLIP Project [sourceforge.net] I am faithful to HP, at least for the time being. I am quite impressed that pretty much all features of my all-in-one printer have been working for years, without any major glitches.
I have seen the Windows HP drivers (quite a while ago) and have to say that at the time they were far too intrusive for my liking and I would not have used the HP software under Windows. So I'd buy an HP printer for Linux, but if I were using Windows I'd probably compare lots of makes first and my choice might be different.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think any other brand of printer can say the same.
Ditch ink, get a laser. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't you just buy a laser printer?
I can't believe anyone with a clue is still using ink-based printers, with lasers being the price they are now. You can get a fairly inexpensive Samsung or maybe even an HP laser printer for $100 - 150, sometimes on sale for under 100, and with a full toner cartridge get thousands of pages out of it.
They're so far superior to ink-based printers that I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't use them. The only thing they don't do, or that you have to pay a significant amount extra for, is color. But really, for the occasional color print you can keep one of those more-expensive-than-liquid-gold ink printers around if you really need it. Or pay the $250 or $300 to get a color laser (and probably step up to something that'll do duplexing).
Inkjet printers need to die, as a technology. The only niche market they deserve to keep is for photo printing for the terminally impatient and un-quality-conscious folks who can't or don't want to drive down to their local CVS/WalMart and use a lightjet.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Color lasers also tend to to be freakin huge, and noisy. My last inkjet went into the garbage can a couple months ago, when I picked up a Ricoh SP C410dn that works VERY well. At 100 pounds and 19wx25dx19h, it wants a dedicated table. I specifically avoided color lasers that work on the carousel system, where color prints are one fou
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You actually can get inkjets that don't cost a fortune in ink to run. The catch? You pay a bit more up-front (but you also get a much better quality of device than the $49 wallyworld inkjet special).
First thing to look for - separate CMYK cartridges, possibly with separately replaceable printheads. That alone will save a fortune over tri/quadcolor cartridges. I don't, however, recommend the on
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sort of. People will decide they don't want to pay the service contract and some entrepreneurs will come up with ink refills and firmware hacks (in case there is some on-line killswitch). A new round af lawsuites will hit.
Wow... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wow... (Score:4, Insightful)
Which means it's not such a bad decision - businesses seem to like things like this, where the only responsibility to them is to have static per-page cost of the printer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The idea of leasing expensive things is nothing new. When Xerox made their first copiers, these were available only on a lease-service basis. IBM mainframes were not sold, but leased. Many businesses lease their equipment and buildings. Cost per page isn't the only consideration for many buisnesses. Leasing has tax advantages. Maybe some
So why is this worthy of an article on the main page here? Must be a s
What a pity (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't look at me I don't do paper. And am typing this on a 24 year old (M) keyboard.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't mean to single you out, lots of people say printer cheaper than ink, but ink in new printers is usually 1/4 or 1/2 a store baught cartridge (check product numbers).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How innovative (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How innovative (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The HP Channel ain't gonna like this... (Score:2)
The only difference is that this time it's the printer manufacturer that's getting the service contract, and not some third party company.
Woe be unto the OEM that pisses on their channel.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
HP just realizes that they participate in a functional duopoly with a direct-sales competitor who doesn't really have a channel and that they don't need to be slaves to theirs.
I'm surprised that they would approach this printing market, though. One of the advantages owning your own printer has is that its much cheaper to own than any of the "managed services" pay-pe
Re: (Score:2)
So we did actually get to buy the machines, but they didn't really do anything unless the manufacturer's tech kept them running
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Xerox is doing the same thing. IBM is doing the same thing, different way.
We are in a post-industrial world. The industrial revolution brought us dirty factories and practically slave labor and goods for cheap. For the most part, industry is done in China now. However, some goods are still made here in the US because its cheaper to make them here than to ship them here for things like cars, but most of the doodads you buy are made in c
Since 1959 (Score:3, Interesting)
cartridge refills (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:cartridge refills (Score:4, Interesting)
That printer sounds like its based on the tech (Score:3, Interesting)
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03
Basically the ultrawide print head and instataneous drying times, etcetera. Any confirmation?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In the article on the
"HP's competing printer costs $16,000
While Edgeline could be the closest competitor to Memjet in terms of speed, it appears to be far more expensive (than memjet)."
Interesting competition coming u
Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient (Score:5, Insightful)
COMPANY: Our technology is so good we can't even sell it. But of course if you are willing to pay a premium we might consider it....
COSTOMER: Oh, wow. This shit has to be good if they can't sell it. We have to see if HP will sell it to _us_. We'll even offer them to pay extra.
COMPANY: Suckers...!
Reminds of when I went shopping for cars with my uncle in Odessa, Ukraine. This guy was selling used cars. At the end of the lot he had a car covered under a sheet. My uncle asks, what's model you have there. He said "That's not for sale." He then proceeded to tell us how that was a special model blah blah blah. Then my uncle talked him into selling it, payed extra for the 'special' features. Then as we drove away it, the salesman took the sheet and put it on the car right next to it. Seems like HP is doing the same thing here...
Re:Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-effici (Score:2)
Big Woop cheaper is cheaper (Score:2)
Cost per page printed (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, it's an hp. Yes, the ink carts are ridiculously expensive. No, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Re:Cost per page printed (Score:5, Interesting)
True but its an artificial increase. Once upon a time I printed 500-2000 page books on my HP deskjet printers. Not one printer died and the cartridge lasted. Now you'd run out of ink if you printed a 200 page book.
China factor? (Score:3, Interesting)
The chinese are notorious for buying something, reverse engineering it, and within a period of time having a duplicate chinese version for sale. Maybe HP is trying to prevent that from happening?
Now is the time...for an "Open Source" Printer (Score:2)
I am sure some will see my suggestion as trying to cut HP's air supply. I love to say that that's not evil at all.
That would be a timely decision (Score:2)
Broken model? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Broken model? (Score:5, Insightful)
You are missing something here. In the 1970s a lot of these companies were newer and therefore not completely used to screwing over the customer quite yet. Unfortunately the way corporations operate is by constantly cutting margins and finding new ways to screw the consumer. The problem is that investors want the company to put out more profits while making the same product with, in some cases, the same marketshare. So if your company is making one thing en masse, and everyone pretty much already has one and is satisfied etc, that's a dry market. No growth. No growth, no investors. No investors in public corporate speak and no money, no money, no company. The end result, companies have to keep cutting margins on old things especially if they have few new products, because they have to turn more and more profits. The model is flawed. Every cost must eventually be cut and that's why all major printer makers now follow this model.
staples and other copy centers (Score:2)
Maybe it's just high-maintenance (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the problem with the thing is that it takes significant maintenance support. Xerox copiers and printers back in the selenium drum era were leased, because they cost so much and required considerable skilled maintenance. If this new technology has that problem, a lease-only approach at introduction makes sense.
Competition Comes from Older Models (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, I'd have a quite nice office class networked, duplexing, HP laserjet 4si printer nestled under my desk at home. It's a 200lb beast that keeps on printing. The $100 cartridges last a year. I got it for $200 off ebay and $50 for a service kit. To buy something similar new would cost me $4-$5k. I expect that it will keep going for years.
Just as test equipment manufacturers know about their old scopes, HP knows that one of it's biggest competitors is not other printer manufacturers, but the installed base of high quality, high reliability, maintainable workhorse printers they sold in the past.
Leasing printing services rather than selling printers means they never suffer from this new model surviving 15 years down the road, competing with their new new model.
Customers + Competitors (Score:2)
Good choice for businesses (Score:2)
Good riddance (Score:5, Interesting)
Their calculators have become a laughing stock. The lucky folks who still have a functional 12c from the days of old (early 80s) will enjoy them for decades more to come. I'd sooner use a bag of rocks than a 12c built during/after the Lewis Platt (successor: Carly) regime.
While this announcement is for a business printer, expect this trend to continue. Cheap printers are a commodity, so squeezing pennies out of the market will eventually lead to "virtual printers" or somesuch idiocy. Smart people are willing to pay for quality, someone just needs to offer a quality printer.
HP isn't the company to do it. Not any more.
HP's loss... (Score:2)
I'm ok with sending finished photography work to a service bureau, but for intermediate prints, I really need to have my own printer. After 20 years of HP printers, my next one'll be Epson...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Flamebait summary... (Score:3, Insightful)
TFA didn't say that, and I don't see any source for it. What TFA did say was that it will "lower colour operating costs by up to 30 percent".
30% isn't exactly enough to make inkjet cartridge sales worthless, now is it?
Crack Heads (Score:2)
Wonder if this amazing technology will ever trickle down to consumer printers (that suck expensive ink like a crack head)...
Gee, No. (Score:4, Funny)
It also reminds me of an office I worked in back-in-the-day where the copier had an odometer and Xerox charged based on the monthly count; it was cheaper to have a typist re-type the one page or two page document 3 or 4 times. If we needed a lot of copies, which wasn't often, we might take it to the local Kinkos, depending on what we wanted. Xerox eventually canceled the contract because it was more expensive to send a guy to read the meter than what they were billing. Funny thing is, they let us keep the copier.
Xerox Document Center already does this... (Score:3, Informative)
Not news (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the big deal, nothing new here (Score:3, Informative)
This may just be a touch of sensationalism... (Score:3, Interesting)
Got a link for this? I fail to see how an ink-efficient printer would affect their current business model. If anything it would improve their margins. Let's say the edgeline uses 50% less ink than other printers, simply put 50% less ink in the edgeline cartridges and charge the same price for them, problem solved.
I think we're all aware that current pricing structures for printer cartridges is a joke, it has little or no basis in what the cartridges actually cost to manufacture, so it's not like an edgeline printer would be some disruptive force in the marketplace.
Why? Simple (Score:4, Informative)
Obviously this new line of HP junk has so much crap associated with it that it can't even fit on a DVD, so they have to sell it as a managed service since no ordinary IT user could possibly control this POS.
I can no longer recommend HP to anyone. Buy Epson, folks. HP is done. Put a fork in it.
Re:If selling ink doesn't work, how about the prin (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If selling ink doesn't work, how about the prin (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Another company will come out with a similarly efficient printer that they WILL sell, and HP won't get squat.
I respectfully disagree (Score:5, Insightful)
HP is allowed to sell their goods any way they wish. That is capitalism at work.
The catch is, so are their competitors.
How long before you see a Lexmark with this exact same technology at work? Do you think they'll go on a services model? Do you think absolutely everyone in the market will? Even the guys in China?
And when someone finally does start selling the same printer technology rather than leasing it, what will HP have to do to keep up?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If that were true, wouldn't somebody patent selling coffee... or fixing a sink?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Capitalism is a system based on the base greed of men (and women). It's not "work hard and see reward"; it's "you want something, you work to get it".
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
In communism the state owns everything. Therefore you own 0%, which is a much lower rate than under coporate capitalism.
In communism, one owner owns everything. We call this a monopoly. Under coporate capitalism, I can choose between several coporations
Re: (Score:2)
I agree completely with the first part. However, I do not agree with the "much lower rate" comment.
One may start out with a much lower rate of "other-ownership" with corporate capitalism, but once the ball starts rolling, the ownership climbs back to the top. Instead of having one entity owning everything, you have a few companies (which usually go back to bankers and loaning institutio
Re: (Score:2)
And capitalism can fall into corporatism pretty easily if companies get the idea they can loan everything instead of sell it.
His points are valid, even if his argument lacks weigh (for example, I own everything of "mine" but the structure I live in - even that will change, minus mortgage, in a month or too)
Better society!? (Score:2, Insightful)
Better society? Are you kidding me? You're expecting a printer company to go out and better society? Before you start frothing at the mouth at the 'capitalist pigs' trying to make money on their products, consider this: if creating these printers makes them no money, HP will not manufacture them at all. It's not in their interest to offer a product that will put them out of business.
Yes, it's possible that the efficiency of the printer would cause HP to lose money from ink sales of cartridges for this pri