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English Premier Football League Sues YouTube 231

An anonymous reader writes "The BBC is reporting that the English Premier Football League has launched a lawsuit against YouTube and its owner Google, claiming unspecified damages. The league is sitting on high-profile content valued at $5.4 billion over the next 3 years in a recent series of auctions. This will be the second major suit against YouTube since Google's purchase."
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English Premier Football League Sues YouTube

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  • by Aeron65432 ( 805385 ) <agiambaNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:02PM (#19007585) Homepage
    As a big soccer/football fan myself (forza juventus!) sometimes YouTube is the only way I can watch the premiership or international football games in the US. None of the major networks broadcast it, it's rarely if ever available on cable, and it's impossible to find games on the internet. Except YouTube, people often upload it in segments. Maybe if there was a way to watch it online for cheap (or ad-supported) we wouldn't have to resort to watching on YouTube...but as of now for 90%+ of Americans, that is the only way to watch.
    • by gbulmash ( 688770 ) <semi_famous@noSpAM.yahoo.com> on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:23PM (#19007685) Homepage Journal
      It seems to be the business model of large media companies... restrict access to content, refuse to make it available to the users who want it, then start suing when it escapes your control.

      For years, people told the record companies: "things are changing, the way we listen is changing, the way we collect music and manage our collections is changing. Get with the times and provide solutions that suit us or we'll just find our own."

      Now, with broadband expanding and compresssion/streaming technologies improving, the companies that provide video media are starting to get hit with the same problems Napster brought to the record companies 10'ish years ago. With a decade to learn from the plight of the record companies, adapt, and profit... the video media companies are making the same mistakes, thinking they can solve their problems with lawyers instead of adapting to the new circumstances.

      • by Josef Meixner ( 1020161 ) on Sunday May 06, 2007 @04:59AM (#19008963) Homepage

        There is a big problem for them, though. They don't have any interest to provide their 'content' for free, they want to earn money. But honestly would you pay for something of the quality of YouTube? I fear most people would want to get a better quality, if they have to pay for it. I seriously doubt that they are willing to go for advertising supported distribution, because of the hard to calculate revenue.

        And that gets them into this problem, the net was for very long not able to deliever high quality video streams (and perhaps it still isn't when a lot of people want to watch it). And I don't see any way for them to compete with YouTube, if they deliever that low quality people will (rightfully) ask why they should pay, if they deliever high quality they get into serious problems of where to get the bandwidth and how to pay for it.

        So I can see, that for them the only way is to make sure, that their content has a high enough value to either make it possible to sell it to YouTube or to at least make a lot of money by selling to the traditional channels.

        For your information, here in Germany the DFL (German Football Leage) who has the rights and sells them last time also sold separate rights for delievery via IP and mobile phone and you can bet, that the owner of the rights will sue anyone 'broadcasting' it for free.

    • by curunir ( 98273 ) * on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:36PM (#19007761) Homepage Journal
      FYI...get Cable or, better yet, Satellite. FSC has a ton of Premiership games live and they also replay games both in their entirety as well as with less-significant portions edited out. It's a bit tougher to catch Serie A, Bundesliga or La Liga games, but GolTV does show some of those games as well. DirecTV used to have a package similar to Sunday Ticket or Extra Innings that would allow subscribers to see almost all premiership games, though they don't offer it any more...instead they offer Setanta Sports Network [setanta.com] which has all sorts of European sports.

      However, as a Juve fan, you may want to go with Dish Network. For $12/mo you can get RAI International, which should give you a ton of Serie A games (which should include Juve, since they're moving back up after this season).

      I can sympathize with Americans that can't get enough Premiership coverage, because I'm in the same boat (I've been a Liverpool fan for over 20 years), but the Premiership has made a reasonable effort to reach out to the American market. Considering just how much money is at stake in the European market alone, I don't think they're acting all that unreasonably.
    • Maybe you should move to Toronto! We get 2-3 EPL games on Saturday, Serie A on Sunday, and that's just on basic cable. And if you want to pay extra, www.goltv.ca gives you a bunch of La Liga, Bundesligue, Serie A, and South American games. Meanwhile, Champions League matches are all available in mid-week, again on basic cable.
    • and it's impossible to find games on the internet.
      Read up on SopCast... and PPMate... and TVAnts...
    • As a big soccer/football fan myself (forza juventus!) sometimes YouTube is the only way I can watch the premiership or international football games in the US. None of the major networks broadcast it, it's rarely if ever available on cable, and it's impossible to find games on the internet.
      There are plenty of European games on TV in the US, ever heard of Fox Soccer Channel, Gol TV or Setanta? You can see more Premiership games in the US than you can in England!
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:03PM (#19007589) Homepage Journal
    A number of us have been saying for years that sooner or later people will stand up and refuse to obey unjust laws.

    We've made the claim that copyright is just such an unjust law.

    The last few years we've seen it actually happening. We dipped our toes in with music sharing, but it was too hot, so we went back to the shadows. The so-called Pirate Party grows stronger. Now there's YouTube/Google.

    The silent majority of us ignore these laws. Now there's a vocal minority who are saying enough is enough.

    I think this issue has finally come of age.

    • by wbren ( 682133 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:17PM (#19007651) Homepage
      Well, it's not likely Google/YouTube stood up and said, "We'll fight this lawsuit with all we've got!" It more like they said, "Well, this may be a good partnership in disguise. Let's see if we can make some money from advertising from this lawsuit." Google is not the "fair-use savior" as some have claimed. It's a business. Its goal is to make companies see the potential advertising revenue in these short clips on YouTube (they are an advertising company). Google is not standing up for fair-use rights; it's seeking potential streams of income (EPFL) and making them see the way (to profit). To pretend anything else is foolish and naive...
    • This 'silent majority' you speak of is like the silent majority Pat Robertson spoke of.
    • Copyright is not an unjust law. It exists to spur creation and innovation, and for a lot of artists, it's the only thing that allows them to afford to create the content you unjustly enjoy.

      It is not a perfect law and it does get abused. The concept of a creator being able to exert some control over their creation so that they can profit from it and prevent its adulteration to a certain extent is not wrong. And without copyright, anyone could take a GPL'ed project, incorporate it into closed source products, and no one could say boo to them.

      The concept of copyright is not only just, it is necessary. There are a lot of people who, if they didn't have copyright laws to protect their creations, wouldn't create them, either because those creations cost too much or simply because there was a more profitable use of their time. The dream of being rich and famous spurs a lot of artists, and while you might argue that the "true artists" would create anyway... how much less would they create when the only reward was personal satisfaction?

      You're a fringe ideologue who probably creates nothing and is only looking for an excuse to commit intellectual gluttony on someone else's dime. If you created stuff and actually were good enough to have a hope of doing that for a living, you wouldn't try to take that hope away from others.

      - Greh
      • by QuantumG ( 50515 )
        Great interpretation of how just the law is from someone who obviously profits from it.

        We have a right to be free.
        We have a right to copy.
        We no longer want these laws.

        Our numbers are growing.
        • Great interpretation of how just the law is from someone who obviously profits from it.

          And, as I said... you don't create, so you don't understand. So I'll break it down for you...

          My contribution to culture, however small, was done because I had the expectation of being able to trade that contribution for enough money to pay my rent, feed my kids, etc. If there was no expectation, you know what I would have done? Become a lawyer.

          The long hours, sweat, and money I have put into creating art and paying others to create art... gone. The hours, sweat, and money thousands like me put into it... gone. The only reason you have as much content to copy, particularly good content to copy, is because copyright encouraged others to create it.

          We have a right to be free.

          One which was only secured for you by good people who made great sacrifices. And furthermore, freedom is not absolute. Your freedom is limited at the point where it stops someone else from being free.

          We have a right to copy.

          No, you have an ability to copy. You only have a right to copy something you PAID for and then only to copy it for personal use. Proclaiming a right to any copying that goes beyond that is like me saying I have a right to steal your car merely because it's stealable.

          Slave owners quoted the bible to prove they had a "right" to own slaves. There are people who think their rights as parents extend to beating their kids unconscious and that the government arresting them for breaking a four-year-old's arm is a violation of their rights.

          You can proclaim all the "rights" you want. That doesn't mean they're legal, ethical, or moral.

          We no longer want these laws.

          There are people in Germany who no longer want laws prohibiting the Nazi party. There are CEOs who no longer want laws prohibiting insider trading. There are pedophiles who no longer want laws prohibiting the possession or distribution of child pornography.

          The dislike of a law doesn't make it unjust, just inconvenient to criminally-minded people like yourself.

          Our numbers are growing.

          Sadly, so are the numbers of Nazis, corrupt CEOs, and pedophiles. But growing numbers doesn't make be accept their causes, arguments, or criminal behavior, nor will they make me accept yours.

          • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06, 2007 @01:01AM (#19008157)
            > My contribution to culture, however small, was done because I had the expectation of being able to trade that contribution for enough money to pay my rent, feed my kids, etc. If there was no expectation, you know what I would have done? Become a lawyer.

            And mine was not. Is it less valuable? You do realize that there are other ways to make money from works of art and imagination (not mere "content" one might stuff into a box with a price tag), no? Or that something called the Renaissance happened outside the domain of copyright, no? You DO also realize that essentially ALL of your ideas are based on those of others, too, no? Otherwise, you'd have to write using only those words you had coined yourself. After all, while human thought, like water, originally shapes its own riverbed, ever after it flows down and is shaped by the same riverbed it first formed.

            > One which was only secured for you by good people who made great sacrifices. And furthermore, freedom is not absolute. Your freedom is limited at the point where it stops someone else from being free.

            Indeed. And when the only way to properly enforce copyright is to invade everyone's privacy and give some small group ultimate authority over everyone's PC, should not their right give way, particularly when it was a right created for the good of society?

            > Slave owners quoted the bible to prove they had a "right" to own slaves. There are people who think their rights as parents extend to beating their kids unconscious and that the government arresting them for breaking a four-year-old's arm is a violation of their rights.

            And ignored their obligation to free them all every 7th year during the Year of Jubilee, ignored that a "slave" was one who originally sold themselves (or was, alas, sold by their parents), not to mention a whole host of other limitations they found inconvenient. It's right that too often we see a right touted without ANY consideration for what gives rise to it, however. And here the point was NOT to give authors a right to profit, but instead to enrich culture. A goal that is almost if not entirely ignored by current copyright laws.

            > You can proclaim all the "rights" you want. That doesn't mean they're legal, ethical, or moral.

            Quite right. Copyright, as it exists now, can only rightfully be considered one of those three. It's no wonder then, that disrespect for it is continually mounting and will continue to mount until such time as the laws reflect something more real.

            > There are people in Germany who no longer want laws prohibiting the Nazi party. There are CEOs who no longer want laws prohibiting insider trading. There are pedophiles who no longer want laws prohibiting the possession or distribution of child pornography.

            Surely you know that by equating copyright infringement to Nazis and molesting children, you have long since undermined whatever point you were trying to make by abandoning reason wholesale in an attempt to demonize the opposition? Can you honestly find no better reasons to support copyright than "think of the children"? Yes, perhaps I am being glib with your response, but I cannot rightfully apprehend the sort of confusion that would prompt such an untoward comparison.

            > Sadly, so are the numbers of Nazis, corrupt CEOs, and pedophiles. But growing numbers doesn't make be accept their causes, arguments, or criminal behavior, nor will they make me accept yours.

            They are? Based on what do you suppose that these numbers are growing?

            Now then, you say indeed that ad populum does not make a good moral system. I can agree with that, but the moral basis I use can only consider copyright infringement evil if it is ultimately hurtful to society. I do not find evidence of that, therefore I wish to see the law reformed into something which is good for society. Alas, I am not holding my breath.

            But who am I kidding? You went to Godwin this discussion. I have to believe that you're just trolling, because you appeal only to emotion and not to reason.
            • You do realize that there are other ways to make money from works of art and imagination (not mere "content" one might stuff into a box with a price tag), no? Or that something called the Renaissance happened outside the domain of copyright, no?

              So you're saying that I should base my ability to make a living on patronage from merchant princes and the Catholic Church? That only the rich can and should be able to decide who produces art and what they produce? That's what happened during the Renaissance.
              • by QuantumG ( 50515 )
                First, it's not the modern age, it's the post-modern age.. we live in the greatest technological era ever to occur in human history. If you want a mass market, go build it, and use the power of that technology to find people who are willing to pay you to create, instead of trying to force people to pay you after you have already created.

                Secondly, you'll note the person you are replying to will not reply. That's because you broke Godwin's Law.

                Good night.
                • First, it's not the modern age, it's the post-modern age.. we live in the greatest technological era ever to occur in human history. If you want a mass market, go build it, and use the power of that technology to find people who are willing to pay you to create, instead of trying to force people to pay you after you have already created.

                  But they only have to pay me if they wish to use what I created. Someone brought up the concept of the chef. Let's extend it to the cafeteria or the "all you can eat"
            • Indeed. And when the only way to properly enforce copyright is to invade everyone's privacy and give some small group ultimate authority over everyone's PC, should not their right give way, particularly when it was a right created for the good of society?

              Why do you have to invade everyone's privacy and give some small group ultimate authority over everyone's PC? You accuse me of using extremes, then use them yourself.

              Again, and for the last time... Copyright law is not perfect and gets abused. But
              • Well, being as how the whole social contract of copyright was established on the basis that:

                1 - producers would produce items and were
                free to declare a limited copyright (see fair use)
                2 - society at a whole would donate to the
                producers of copyrighted items the cost of enforcement
                3 - in return the full and complete OWNERSHIP of the
                items would in return default to the PUBLIC
                4 - the period at which this transfer of ownership
                • You bring up a good point. But when you state that the contract has been amended "with no public agreement" you invalidate the concept of representative democracy. It's like saying there was no public agreement to a tax cut or a tax increase and therefore you get to renege on the social contract of paying taxes. It doesn't work that way. Try it with the IRS.

                  The contract needs to be fixed, not scrapped. That's done through grass roots political action and public demonstrations of civil disobedience (
          • The long hours, sweat, and money I have put into creating art and paying others to create art... gone. The hours, sweat, and money thousands like me put into it... gone. The only reason you have as much content to copy, particularly good content to copy, is because copyright encouraged others to create it.

            And what did all those artists do for 10,000 years before copyright laws?

            Certainly Leonardo da Vinci would refuse to paint the Mona Lisa because he could not be assured income because he is afraid someone
      • The concept of copyright is not only just, it is necessary. There are a lot of people who, if they didn't have copyright laws to protect their creations, wouldn't create them, either because those creations cost too much or simply because there was a more profitable use of their time.

        Less creation is not important, since without copyright the stuff that does get created will be much more widely useful. The English Premier League wouldn't shut down. Most likely the players wouldn't make so many millions p

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by gbulmash ( 688770 )
          Most likely the players wouldn't make so many millions per year, but I'm sure somebody would still be willing to do the job.

          "Somebody would still be willing to do the job." Of course. But have you ever watched minor league baseball? Ever gone out to see the Cucamonga Quakes at the Epicenter? Entertaining to be sure, but nothing compared to major league baseball.

          The thing that keeps some of the best in any business doing what they do best is the fact that they can make loads of money doing it. If
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by gronofer ( 838299 )

            Perhaps you'd prefer to live in a blander, more flavorless world where we have more car salesmen and lawyers, but I don't.

            The Premier League would still be the highest level, so that's were the best footballers will be. I'd be surprised if the teams couldn't scrape up enough funds in one way or another to pay them an ordinary salary.

            In any case the number of lawyers needed will surely decrease once copyright is abolished, which is another good reason for getting rid of it.

            • The Premier League would still be the highest level, so that's were the best footballers will be. I'd be surprised if the teams couldn't scrape up enough funds in one way or another to pay them an ordinary salary.

              Not true. This isn't like Gridiron where the NFL is the only league to be in, if the premier league paid its players less they would move to the Italian league, the Spanish league, the German league, etc, etc.
              The premiership isn't just fighting for rights to its sport (like the NFL might be) it is fighting against other major leagues of the same sport.

              That said, I don't know why they don't go after all the other sites that show football live.

      • Copyright is not an unjust law. It exists to spur creation and innovation,

        It originally existed to do those things, in it's current form it's only job is to help the creators to control what other people do with the content they create.

        and for a lot of artists, it's the only thing that allows them to afford to create the content you unjustly enjoy.

        Actually, it has been shown repeatedly that giving content away for free actually helps increase sales. See this note from baen books, [baen.com] and this article from the [washingtonpost.com]

      • Copyright is not an unjust law. It exists to spur creation and innovation, and for a lot of artists, it's the only thing that allows them to afford to create the content you unjustly enjoy.

        Explain to me, if you will, how extending copyrights long after the creation is done, affects that creation -- except to continue funneling excess profits into a monopoly of companies long after such works should have entered the Public Domain?

        I accept your silence as defeat.

      • by pedestrian crossing ( 802349 ) on Sunday May 06, 2007 @03:02AM (#19008565) Homepage Journal

        Copyright is not an unjust law. It exists to spur creation and innovation, and for a lot of artists, it's the only thing that allows them to afford to create the content you unjustly enjoy.

        Creation? Innovation? It's a frigging football (soccer) match! It's not like the FA is a bunch of artists writing poems or whatever, it's a sport.

        It's not being streamed live in competition with the live broadcast.

        Football is an important part of a large part of the world's culture. It is unjust to lock it up behind copyright, that just doesn't make sense. Making it available after the fact doesn't diminish the advertising revenue (that's what this is about, revenue) of the live broadcast, there's plenty of demand for the live broadcast.

        But once the match has been played, what's the problem with people being able to watch it?

        This is a good example of the bad side of copyright, locking up public culture for fear of losing even a penny of corporate profit.

      • There are a lot of people who, if they didn't have copyright laws to protect their creations, wouldn't create them, either because those creations cost too much or simply because there was a more profitable use of their time.

        Do you have any evidence to support this claim? This is really the problem - people making broad claims for or against copyright, but no one actually spending any time to find out what is the truth of the matter.

        As for football -- well, people played football commercially be

      • by kjart ( 941720 )

        Amazingly insightful posts - especially the part with respect to the GPL. People seem to forget that without copyright the GPL would be meaningless.

      • by tepples ( 727027 )

        it's the only thing that allows them to afford to create the content you unjustly enjoy.
        Then why does copyright continue after the death of the author?

        without copyright, anyone could take a GPL'ed project, incorporate it into closed source products, and no one could say boo to them.
        Without copyright, commented disassemblies of proprietary software would be freely traded on SourceForge.net.
    • by Kufat ( 563166 )
      I looked at your homepage and was surprised by a few things in light of your comment.

      First of all, you prefer [insomnia.org] the GPL over the BSD license. This is interesting, as the GPL requires copyright law in order to be enforceable. If the author doesn't have the right to control distribution and users do have the right to copy whatever they want, however they want, wouldn't that be a view closer to that of the BSD license?

      Second, you sell shareware [insomnia.org]. This is a source of income which relies on copyright law. Presu
      • by QuantumG ( 50515 )
        What you are observing is the simple difference between idealism and pragmatism.

        Although it would be lovely if the world was instantly the way it should be, it is not.

        We live in a world of artifical scarcity. People can and do use the power of copyright law to increase that scarcity.

        As such, although the BSD license is a great ideal, it is not terribly pragmatic for people who care about software freedom. The GPL addresses the reality of copyright by using the devil's tools against him.

        As for TcpSafe, con
        • The difference between the GPL and BSD licenses is not a matter of software freedom. It's a matter of telling other people what to do. If what you cared about was writing and giving aware software for free then you wouldn't need a license at all. What you want is other people's software for free. Big difference. It's kind of like thinking that everybody should have free shelter, like living in someone else's building for a summer without ever paying rent, and then letting any random bum live in your house w
          • "If what you cared about was writing and giving aware software for free then you wouldn't need a license at all. What you want is other people's software for free."

            No what you want is for users of the software to always have full access to the code they are running on their machines so they have the freedom to modify it. Stop trying to obfuscate what is quite a simple difference in how the two licenses consider which freedoms are important. The GPL values the freedom of the user to always have access to the
            • by QuantumG ( 50515 )
              You're replying to a troll who has sunk to the depths of stalking me.

              I'm hoping he threatens my life next so I can use some of the laws I've criticised in other posts today to have him arrested.

    • by bhmit1 ( 2270 )

      A number of us have been saying for years that sooner or later people will stand up and refuse to obey unjust laws.

      We've made the claim that copyright is just such an unjust law.

      The application may be wrong in some cases, but I don't see a problem with the concept. GPL would cease to be effective without copyright law. You're claiming that every open source developer should lose all rights on their creation, which would discourage all open source creations. I would hypothesize that without copyright

  • oops again (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wizardforce ( 1005805 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:08PM (#19007611) Journal
    youtube has in the past responded to take downs without doing any fact checking and in this case it seems that the material would have been taken off immediately had they had such a notice- instead as far as I can tell the company just sued youtube without such notice. now aside from that, what is youtube being expected to do to prevent any and all copyrighted works from being submitted illegally? are they still working on that unique identification system? if so it hardly seems like they're intentionally profiting from the whole thing
  • Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jarjarthejedi ( 996957 ) <christianpinch AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:17PM (#19007647) Journal
    Just rambling here but isn't it interesting, YouTube sits there for years without any major lawsuits that I remember and then a large multi million dollar company buys it and suddenly companies are suing it...makes you wonder if they're really that disturbed about their content or if they simply want a quick buck...

    But, a little more on topic, YouTube's response is just silly, threatening the internet? Is this supposed to become the tech people's "Think of the Children" meme? No offense but if YouTube goes down the internet won't be affected at all. However the accusation is also silly, YouTube pushing football (non-American) in order to raise it's profile. YouTube needs a bigger profile? I mean, is there really any person with internet access for the last couple years, or who simply watches the news, who doesn't know about YouTube?

    As for the copyright issues wasn't there some law that said that people posting to a site (text) were responsible for their posts, not the hosting company? I may be wrong about that but if there was such a law would not this fall under it?

    Oh well, it's not like YouTube is going down...and even if it did everyone knows that something would come up to replace it...probably a site with less regard for copyright law...you can't stop people from sharing things by making it hard on the places where people share, all that does is make people go to the less reputable places and then you have an even harder time stopping them. Better to let them share on a site like YouTube, where the worst offenders can be stopped, rather than sending the traffic to a site that would make it impossible to stop anything like this.
    • But, a little more on topic, YouTube's response is just silly, threatening the internet? Is this supposed to become the tech people's "Think of the Children" meme? No offense but if YouTube goes down the internet won't be affected at all. However the accusation is also silly, YouTube pushing football (non-American) in order to raise it's profile. YouTube needs a bigger profile? I mean, is there really any person with internet access for the last couple years, or who simply watches the news, who doesn't know about YouTube?

      The statement may sount silly, but look at it like this: if litigation is the only reaction that content businesses use, it will kill the Internet content business, and likely hurt the usefulness of the Internet as we know it today. Rather than litigate, content owners should be finding ways to get their content out to users at a reasonable cost. Youtube and Google can offer them many services in doing just that. But if content owners simply want to restrict access, overcharge users, and misuse the courts

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • IANAL but I think you're referring to common carrier status, which telcos and ISPs have, which would become questionable if they start shaping traffic inviolating of net neutrality. In any case, YouTube doesn't fit under that and IIRC publishers or facilitators of copyright infringement can be sued for damage. The example my law professor used is if created a venue where everyone comes and infringed on copyrights, you can be sued, especially if you profit off of it, which Youtube certainly does. This cas
      • Google's lead counsel on copyright bills $700/hr. I suspect he's quite good. Probably higher in his field than most of their engineers.
    • by wass ( 72082 )
      The lawsuit is ridiculous, it's akin to Disney suing Xerox after someone makes and distributes illegal copies of a copyrighted Disney book.
      • To play Devil's advocate here, it's more like Disney suing Xerox because people are distributing illegal copies of a copyrighted Disney book on Xerox's property, and Xerox are denying they can do anything about it.

        Slightly less ridiculous, but still pretty bad.
  • Google's got far too much invested in YouTube and way too much at stake overall to allow a steady stream of high profile, potentially extremely costly lawsuits to continue. So I bet they and their YouTube folks are working hard on a technical solution that would provide enough upfront screening/checking to drastically reduce the amount of copyrighted material that wound up posted on either YouTube or Google Video (which would strengthen their legal basis for defending against any lawsuits). They are also
  • by gemada ( 974357 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:48PM (#19007815)
    if youtube doesn't pay up, they may receive a nasty head-butt.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Surely rugby ticket prices are lower because the cost of running teams are lower? I'm guessing there aren't any Chelsea -priced players in the Rugby Leagues? Chelsea seem to be happy spending 20-30 million UK sterling for a top player, what does a top player cost in Rugby Union?

      I guess they are screwing the fans to get that sort of money back.

      As a football fan I wish you the best of luck and hope that big money doesn't come Rugby's way and mess up your game. I watch League Two football (fourth level) and th
    • Rugby's cheaper? Ever tried getting into an England game at Twickenham? And what about those Friday night games?

      So what if rugby is cheaper, it's boring.
  • by SQLz ( 564901 ) on Sunday May 06, 2007 @01:53AM (#19008323) Homepage Journal
    Google falls down holding its knee, his face looks like he is in agony. No wait, now hes up again 2 seconds later running at full speed.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by grolschie ( 610666 )

      Google falls down holding its knee, his face looks like he is in agony. No wait, now hes up again 2 seconds later running at full speed.

      FYI, google != Cristiano Ronaldo [youtube.com]. ;-)
  • The copyright act allows fair usage. This was interpreted in the past as an excerpt. One could for instance quote and attribute a passage from a book and this could even include pictures. To do so is not copyright infringement. A for instance of this is a critic or a book report. I would think a film trailer would fall into this category as well.

    Dawns the Digital age and networks. Say one places one frame of a football game in each of millions of networked computers. Each frame can be noted as a quote and have proper attribution. Each frame can have an index number... say seconds into the game.

    A cleaver app could simply download each frame individually from all the separate machines not as a torrent as currently defined... much more grainy. And said cleaver app could use the attribution information to stitch the game right back together. By doing so one would stay within the current legal interpretation of fair usage and at the same time totally subvert the copyright.

    This would be no different than downloading a book where each character comes from a separate source. While this might sound screwy... the thing is it can be done and if legal it subverts copyright. But who is to say that 10 million people cannot excerpt from a published copyrighted work separate overlapping or non-overlapping segments? This would be like assigning a book review to a class and then if two students happen to excerpt the same passage or at least some of it - claiming they colluded and hence are guilty of copyright infringement. I think in a court of law one would have to charge a significant portion of the alleged perpetrators.

    Then the question might be asked: Would it be legal to download all book reports and look at all excerpts and attempt to do an analysis of the amount of overlap and the distribution of the excepts over the entire book? In order to do this one would need to stitch the book back together from its pieces. I'm sure there is code to do this. I happen to know a chap who stitched the files off his hard drive back together using this technique after the partition resize was botched.

    But let me ask... if we are talking about text as in a book then would it be copyright infringement if all of the letter "A"'s come from a small group of machines? What if one machine is programmed to hold only the 1st word or 1st letter of many different works and perhaps is programmed to do a statistical analysis of the usage frequency in position #1 across many types of books each identified by a book reference ID and a list of tags one might like to analyse over. Sound hookey or contrived? Of course. But is it legal research?

    This ends up being nothing more than a linked list structure and it can be indexed and thus downloaded in parallel. Perhaps this is how torrents are put together.

    The thing is that if _any_ excerpt is legal then everything in the area if infringement becomes increasingly gray as the sophistication increases. Well with Major Exceptions... the law also looks at the PURPOSE in mind. One can excerpt for a book report because the purpose of the excerpt is to support the book report. If 1 million people each write a book report and each use a different excerpt and their ultimate purpose is to subvert the authors copyright then the courts I think would find them guilty of infringement. However if 1 million people write a book report and have no intention of being able to put humpty dumpty back together again then they would not be guilty of infringement.

    But what if Cleaver Programmer comes along and realises he can download all these said book reports and from them reconstruct humpty dumpty. Then is Cleaver Programmer guilty of infringement? Its a gray area. In a way yes. In a way no. Cleaver Programmer may for instance legally purchase the material and stitch it back together to illustrate it can be done. That would constitute Fair Usage. Cleaver Programmer for instance might be working on a PhD thesis on reconstruction technigues.
  • Isn't England a Loser Pays legal system? If English Football loses, it could cost them a pretty pence.
  • I see a lot of people arguing that because copyright laws have been extended so much, they are unjust. I believe that's a faulty argument. The vast majority if copyright violation we're seeing today on the Internet... video, audio, software... is of material that is usually no more than a few decades old, and often only a few weeks old. If you believe copyright is okay for 25 years, you shouldn't be downloading the latest bittorrent of your favorite TV show or cracked software package.

    I agree copyright h
    • by QuantumG ( 50515 )
      Creators of tv shows and movies always kind of remind me of coffee growers.

      They set out to make a product with little to no idea of:

      1. how many other people are making similar products
      2. what price the market will bare when the product is ready
      3. how the price will change once the product is released

      The result of this, in the case of coffee, is entire nations like Brazil starving (why they don't grow food instead of coffee is beyond me, but that's another argument).

      Of course, digital products (which tv sho
  • In comparison... (Score:3, Informative)

    by k0llin ( 621001 ) on Sunday May 06, 2007 @05:28AM (#19009047)
    The NHL has its own channel [youtube.com] on youtube, showing highlights of games, the top plays of the week and so forth.

    There are lots of highlight videos from other sources as well, but no/ very few full games like there are for the premiership. Is there a link? Quite probably - why sit through a low-quality version of the full game when you can just as easily see all the interesting parts in the same quality much quicker?
  • Copyrights infringement is a serious issue. This is what any sensible person will agree on. But the amount which is being sought is way out of touch with reality. The court will decide the merits of this case and if found guilty, how much YouTube has to pay. Hopefully, YouTube will learn a lesson from all this and avoid it from happening in the future. Mscsrrr, http://www.google.com/bookmarks/?hl=en&zx=5869 [google.com]

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