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Google Businesses The Internet Software Patents Linux

Google Partners With OIN For Linux 67

Posted by kdawson from the circling-the-wagons dept.
lymeca writes "Groklaw reports that Google has become the Open Invention Network's first end-user licensee. The OIN was established by companies such as IBM, Red Hat, and somewhat ironically Novell to accumulate patents and license them royalty-free to any company promising not to leverage their own patent portfolio against key applications available on GNU/Linux, including many GNU projects as well as Linux itself. Google's support bolsters the OIN's effectiveness as a shield against patent attacks against GNU/Linux and many popular applications that run on it."
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Google Partners With OIN For Linux More

Google Partners With OIN For Linux

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  • All-out attack on my cynicism? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Control Group ( 105494 ) * on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:27AM (#20143275) Homepage
    OK, I've been thinking about this setup for at least five minutes now, and I admit, it seems like a genuinely good idea (the OIN bit, not just the Google going for it bit). Companies using their patent portfolios to shut down patent trolling is this =>= close to giving me a warm fuzzy right under the cockles of my heart.

    So what's the catch? What am I missing, here, that turns this from an actual Good Thing for the software community (with concomitant benefits to the involved organizations, of course) into an attempt to rape the commons for short-term profit? Or is my cynicism, for possibly the first time ever, completely unwarranted?
    • I don't know much about the legal implications of it, but this seems like they may actually just be doing it for the good of the community?

      I'm as surprised as you are... Though software patents don't exist in Europe so I suppose it's kinda useless for everyone except Americans?

      • I don't know much about the legal implications of it, but this seems like they may actually just be doing it for the good of the community?

        I'm as surprised as you are... Though software patents don't exist in Europe so I suppose it's kinda useless for everyone except Americans?

        Not really useless; if a European wants to sell software in the US, this would be very valuable.

    • Re:All-out attack on my cynicism? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tgatliff ( 311583 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:41AM (#20143477)
      The main purpose, in my opinion, for the OIN is to help insure the successful transition of the industry from software sales based to services based... These companies are broken up into two categories..

      The first group are companies are the ones that already offer just services, meaning that the software they use is insignificant to their mode of business, so having software that is free to use is important. Also, getting sued is a significant risk for these companies business models. Google would be a great example for this type of company. If google had to pay for every OS, database, and file system on every server they have, I question if their business model would even be possible or viable...

      The second group is companies that still work in the business of writing/distrib. software, but are not the top players in the industry. IBM would be a great example of this type of company. These types of companies are realizing, though, that business of "selling" software is slowing going away. The future of software is to sell the services that follow the software. This type of income not only provides a better revenue stream, but also is considerably more profitable..

      So who is OIN truely targetting Simple.. To strike after companies that are still are based on just selling software and have the most to loose in the transition to software services... M$ comes to mind.. :-)

      • So who is OIN truely targetting Simple.. To strike after companies that are still are based on just selling software and have the most to loose in the transition to software services... M$ comes to mind.. :-)

        No Twitter, it doesn't ( oh wait, you're not Twitter? You sure as hell sound like him, and that's not a compliment) . The OIN is not about striking ANYONE. It is a defensive organisation, not an offensive one. The OIN is a pool of companies who hold patents to offer to other members provided they adhere to the values of the pool.

        To some extent, it's all about Mutually Assured Destruction. They hold so many patents in their pool that should any company sue one of their members, they could almost assur

        • Just for the record, I did put that it was my opinion, just as what you put is your opinion... Everyone does have one you know... :-)

          Also, in no way would I consider the OIN a offensive organization. Just a strong defensive one. Also, I dont know about your MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) argument, but I admit that I do get your point... I strongly doubt, however, many scenarios where a lawsuit ends with destruction of both companies... Look at the SCO versus IBM for a legal comparison.

          Also, I dont fe
    • It is a good thing, but it only half solves the problem. While this decreases the incentive for google to file for offensive patents, it does nothing to mitigate the need for defensive patents, lest they be sued by a small non-OIN-member patent troll.

    • Re:All-out attack on my cynicism? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Billly Gates ( 198444 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @12:00PM (#20143759) Journal
      As much as I despise software patents I think this is for the following situation. WHen a software company sues someone that other someone brings their armory of patents to the table and they make a licensing deal on who pays what.

      Whoever has the most software patents wins and gets the money or more of it,

      So we have a war where companies are trying to patent everything under the sun to protect themselves in case they get sued. Its just defense to prevent them for being sued as they can sue back.

      Meanwhile free software developers dont want to pay $5k or whatever it costs to patent a concept or mathmatical algorithm so they are screwed if they are sued. They have no battle chest to defend themselves on.

      There is one company that has everyone scared called Intellectual Ventures formed by a former MS scientist who only has laywers on staff. Basically his business model is to sue everyone and since they do not make anything you can not sue back. Kind of scary but good if it will make the industry think twice about protective patents. They have not gone after Linux yet because they have no money but guess who owns stock in the company and who has incredible influence as the CEO was a friend of both Balmer and Gates? You guessed it Microsoft.

      I have a feeling they may go after Linux if pressured but we will see.

    • Re:All-out attack on my cynicism? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kebes ( 861706 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @12:06PM (#20143849) Journal
      Such cynicism is usually warranted. Big companies are out to make money, regardless of who they trample over in the process. So, whenever there is a big move by a big company, we must ask "who is getting trampled?"

      The fact is, however, that OIN is a good thing. I think it's important to realize the significance of this: We have huge, powerful companies (IBM, Google, etc.) voluntarily participating in a project that protects FOSS and encourages the free distribution of innovative ideas and Free software. The answer to the obvious "why would these companies do something seemingly benevolent?" is that the FOSS community has done a good job of engineering the landscape that way.

      Basically, the years of work by the FOSS community has created an environment where coming together and preventing patent threats against Free software is in the best interests of those big companies! The community (via legal things like the GPL, and less tangible things like "public outcry," boycotts, and "community spirit") have made it clear that business will only continue to benefit from the power and flexibility of FOSS if they play by certain rules. (Keep code open, keep software patents at bay.) The business sector has stepped up to the plate and is enforcing those FOSS requirements... not because they are benevolent, but because they recognize that the payback from the community will be "worth it."

      So to those who still (in this day and age!) doubt that FOSS can be relevant to businesses, or that people can "make money from Free software"--let this be an obvious message. The free market has spoken... and it has said "This stuff has value, we want more of it, and we're prepared to do what it takes to protect your continued efforts at innovation."

      This crucial win-win between FOSS and business is a result of the FOSS people having uncompromising requirements, and the business people being smart enough to see a great opportunity.

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by CompSci101 ( 706779 )

      Are you sure it's in the cockles of your heart?

      Is it possibly below the cockles? In the sub-cockle area, perhaps?

      Maybe the liver or the kidneys?

      The colon?

      Maybe we'll never know...

      C

  • So what happens when someone buys Google? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:28AM (#20143283)
    Is the buyer bound by Google's promises?

    For that matter, is *Google* actually legally
    bound by a promise to not use patents against any
    particular person/group/corporation?

    I get the feeling the OIN is a feel-good thing,
    and actually doesn't have any legal teeth in it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by HappySmileMan ( 1088123 )
      The OIN aquires patents, so if google is bought it can start to be an asshole with any new patents, but the patents it has already owned will be the property of the OIN as far as I know...

      And if google drops out of the OIN does that not leave them open to be sued by the OIN for using those very patents or is that an exception?

      I know nothing about patent law but that's my interpretation

      • Re:So what happens when someone buys Google? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mhall119 ( 1035984 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:55AM (#20143687) Homepage Journal
        Google licensed OIN patents, it didn't (in this article) contribute any of it's own patents to OIN. Basically what this move does is gives Google the ability to use these patents from IBM, Novell and Red Hat in it's own products. It also (and more importantly) means that Google would lose that ability if it ever decided to sue Linux or any part of what OIN defines as a "Linux System". Since nobody was every really concerned about Google doing that, this is more of a PR move to bolster both Google's standing in the FOSS community, and to give corporate legitimacy to the OIN, which will hopefully spur other, possibly smaller, companies into licensing OIN patents as well, maybe even contributing some of it's own patents. OIN is to patents what FOSS is to copyright.
    • They are legally bound by a contractual obligation. In a way it is a form of community MAD. You get "consideration" (legal term for something in exchange) in the form of free use of other patents in exchange for other licensees to do the same with yours. Breaking this would be a contractual breach but also expose you to retaliation by the other holders for your use of their patents.

  • Good move but... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This OIN arrangement may be effective at bolstering defenses against patent aggression but it does nothing to defend against flying chairs!

  • OIN Training? (Score:3, Funny)

    by greg_barton ( 5551 ) * <greg_barton@yahooAUDEN.com minus poet> on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:38AM (#20143435) Homepage Journal
    What would they call the training arm of OIN? Open Invention Network Knowledge?
  • IP-investing FOSS-patent-acumulating Google overlords!

    -WtC

    *please insert sig*
  • That was his response when OIN was formed. Linux and Free Software do not, repeat DO NOT ned the OIN for gaining mindshare or marketshare - the OIN is largely a distraction sponsored by an elite club, at odds with reality.

    Now that GPL3 has neutered patent threats from Microsoft, Google's tie-up with the OIN seems actually a bad PR move.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Otter ( 3800 )
      On the other hand, his solution was to buy the expensive indemnification insurance he was promoting. How did that work out for you?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jkrise ( 535370 )

        On the other hand, his solution was to buy the expensive indemnification insurance he was promoting.
        I think large-scale products like the Linux kernel and Apache are better served by the GPL than by half-hearted smart-brained schemes that a few big names come up with once a while. Initiatives like the OIN actually take away from the good work accomplished by the GPL, IMO.

  • Fun fact (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <(pluvius3) (at) (gmail.com)> on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @02:27PM (#20145929) Journal
    Another name for OIN is GNU/Linux Open Invention Network (GLOIN). I've also heard rumors that the companies involved are going to create a group to endorse the increased usage of Linux on Internet servers. It'll be called the Greater Internet Mobilization of Linux Initiative (GIMLI).

    Rob

    • Re:Fun fact (Score:5, Funny)

      by grcumb ( 781340 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @05:14PM (#20148671) Homepage Journal

      Another name for OIN is GNU/Linux Open Invention Network (GLOIN). I've also heard rumors that the companies involved are going to create a group to endorse the increased usage of Linux on Internet servers. It'll be called the Greater Internet Mobilization of Linux Initiative (GIMLI).

      Unfortunately, they were disbanded after a legal challenge by the Seattle Microsoft Advanced Users Group (SMAUG). Cost them a mountain of gold....

  • "somewhat ironically Novell" -- yes, somewhat. What is Sony doing there?

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