KDE 4.1 Released, Reviewed 475
StoneLion writes "After months of development and controversy, the KDE project announced the release of KDE 4.1 today. Linux.com (a Slashdot sister site) took a hands-on look at the new code, and reviewer Jeremy LaCroix says, 'KDE 4.1 simply rocks.'" Bruce Byfield's review is quite positive, as well.
Fedora 9 packages? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does anyone know where one can obtain Fedora 9 packages? I've been suffering through 4.0 for a while and I'd love to be able to upgrade, but I'd prefer to use fedora's package management rather than compiling it myself. It's just simpler.
Answered my own question: (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.kde.org/download/#v4.1 [kde.org]
Re:Fedora 9 packages? (Score:4, Informative)
Nvidia cards (Score:3, Informative)
"...users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware."
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
It is definitely worth downloading and I say it is more then sufficient to replace KDE 3.5
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
Use this setting:
nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=2 -a GlyphCache=1
Using this trick, resize becomes snappy.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
I reply to mysel: to make this change permanent, I created a file called: /etc/X11/xinit.d/20nvidia-te-acceleration
which contains:
#!/bin/sh
if [ -x /usr/bin/nvidia-settings ]; then /usr/bin/nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=2 -a GlyphCache=1
fi
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
For the record: I managed to sort out all my nvidia speed issues by loading XGL instead of AIGLX. Because XGL masks away the card itself and presents a generic interface, it worked around the nvidia driver issues very well. None of the other tricks made much difference for me.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
There was a lot of discussion about this, the KDE developers eventually decided NOT to fix these issues themselves because they are due to broken drivers, basically you either have to apply those config changes or hope NVidia improves their drivers.
I can't imagine how those drivers got so messed up, I've heard that any desktop effects are painfully slow on brand new NVidia cards, yet I'm sitting here running KDE4.1 with a 64MB GeForce 4 MX (which is like 5-6 years old I think) and it runs very fast...
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
One difference is that we're doing lots of stuff using an ARGB visual (ie. true translucency). It seems these code paths haven't really been tested.
Kubuntu Packages (Score:4, Informative)
My one erk with KDE 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Hopefully they've gotten rid of that freakin' kidney shaped thing in the upper right corner. Talk about a useless static "feature". ugh!
Re:My one erk with KDE 4 (Score:5, Informative)
Please provide an option to disable the upper right cashew.
Although putting an option to disable the cashew for desktops sounds reasonable, from a coding point of view it would introduce unnecessary complexity and would break the design. What has been suggested is, since the destkop itself (a containment) is handled by plugins, to write a plugin that would draw the desktop without the cashew itself. Currently some work ("blank desktop" plugin) is already present in KDE SVN. With containment type switching expected by KDE 4.2, it is not unreasonable to see alternative desktop types developed by then.
Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't get it. Why all the fuss about the desktop background? It is just a background after all, and hidden by any windows you have open.
From observing 'ordinary users' running Windows, they use the desktop background for starting programs which have a shortcut there - because the Start menu is so congested with crap, they don't even look at it and are often incapable of running anything not on the desktop. Because of this most Windows application installers have taken to adding a desktop shortcut as well as a Start menu item. Of course in the long term this 'icon inflation' will make the background itself unusable and we'll have to think of something else. I can't help feeling that just making a usable Start menu would be a better answer.
The second use of the desktop background is because files get saved there by default from your web browser. Again, this seems to be because unsophisticated users have no idea of directories and if it doesn't go on the background, they can't find it. But on Unix everyone has a home directory and I'd expect KDE (or GNOME) to provide easy access to that directory, even for people who aren't aware that any other location exists.
The kind of technically skilled people who used to run Enlightenment probably enjoy having semitransparent widgets flip into shape in 3d on the background, but I don't see what usability advantages that brings. Would it not be simpler to make the background be a background - just blank? There is no difficulty in putting one application window _underneath_ another, so you will see it when the top window is moved or minimized out of the way.
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:4, Informative)
The various hotkey launch bars are the usable start menu and the better answer. Press hotkey. Type (part of) application or file name. Hit Enter. App launches or file opens.
Launchy is the one I am using:
http://www.launchy.net/#download [launchy.net]
Tastes seem to differ quite a bit for this type of app, there are dozens of alternatives (and apparently some similar functionality is built into Vista).
And yes, they got popular with Quicksilver on the Mac.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
How is it "unusable"? Just like most start menus, it has places you can go to (Gnome also has this) such as My Computer, etc.
It has a shortcut to the control panel, a quick way to get help and also to open a command prompt or whatever program you need.
Once you open the "Programs" option though, it gets very confusing. You are presented with various complicated options such as "Accessories" (For ac
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows Start menu is all fine and dandy until you install some software.
At that point it becomes unusable.
Instead of sorting themselves into categories, programs sort themselves by vendor.
How intuitive is that, exactly?
Of course, it is editable, but how many users are willing to do that? I am a competent user, yet I still can't be bothered.
Instead, I use launcher applications and the like.
Windows Start menu wastes time, and that is why it is unusable.
Compare the Windows Start menu with the new KDE menu... and IIRC, Vista's new menu is a rip-off of KDE's.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My my, how hard is it to 'right click' then select Sort by Name. Yep that is pretty tough.
It's not very hard—but it's also not very useful, as it doesn't solve the problem that the programs are still sorted by folders almost always named after the vendor.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
On the Windows box at work I installed Launchy, removed nearly every option from the start menu to make it as streamlined as possible on the odd occasion I DO need to use it and have been running that way for months. For a little extra sanity I made three folders on the desktop to g
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think you understand.
The parent poster is complaining on behalf of users who don't really have a solid handle on any aspect of the computer other than means to launch and use the few applications they care about. I have known many of them who are afraid to delete shortcuts from their desktop or Start Menu. They are afraid to move them around. They are afraid to rename them. I try to explain the difference between a shortcut and an executable. They do not understand.
And those of us who do understand usually just want to do some work with our computer, not get constantly bogged down with administrative tasks and upkeep. And the free-for-all Windows allows application installers results in just that kind of bogging down.
Install something new:
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:4, Informative)
Just because you threw a bunch of paper all over your desk doesn't mean you get to blame the desk for not sorting it for you. You still created your own mess. Sure, Windows' start menu isn't cleaned up automagically, but it's very easy to do it yourself.
When I install programs under Windows, I don't always get to choose where they will be installed.
So it is like an office desk, where people put things in your In tray, but also wherever else they please. And then I'm not doing my job, but cleaning up the mess instead.
Sorting the Windows Start menu is not at all easy; it is quite a time-consuming task.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I like having icons on my desktop; it lets me locate icons spatially instead of paging through a list. I want it to work like KDE 3 and not waste my time on "plasmoids". Until it at least attains the functionality of KDE 3 (does it amaze anyone else that they say they won't have a basic desktop, like every other DE, until around KDE 4.3?), it's worthless to me.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You know what? You can have all that! It's an exciting new project called KDE 3! Check it out (and stop wasting everyone's time with this blather)!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
obviously you wouldn't be using vista then...
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:5, Insightful)
What can't you do for KDE 4.x that you can do in KDE 3.x that's a show-stopper for you?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The desktop so quickly gets cluttered with so many program shortcuts, files and folders, and file and folder shortcuts that it becomes a nightmare within weeks. The start menu at least has only applications and application-related links.
Some people really do treat their desktop the same way they treat their desk top.
Re:My one erk with KDE 4 (Score:5, Funny)
I'm just surprised its not called a "Kashew"
I love Linux but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry but Linux.com and Bruce Byfield praising KDE is like PC Magazine praising Vista.
I would like to some more critical reviews.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not exactly on-topic here, but I just wanted to say that I really like that you take the time to read and reply to /. comments on your stories. When the /. crowd doesn't like a story it can turn into a shark-filled swimming pool real fast, with the story (and by extension the writer) getting shredded by the groupthink mafia, as indeed some of your past stories have been treated in this space. Thank you for braving the waters and taking the time to do this.
Some screencasts on Plasma features (Score:5, Informative)
This is supposed to be impressive? (Score:5, Funny)
So far, I am impressed (Score:5, Interesting)
What I would like to see includes better fonts and more useful and complete help files. I also miss Amarok.
I have had my disappointments too. My college website will not allow Konqueror. Plug-in installation still needs work so that it is as smooth as that on Windows XP.
I have nothing but praise for KDE developers who insisted that we needed a new way of doing things in KDE and therefore started developing KDE 4.0. At that time, I did not see any reason why we needed a new paradigm. Now I see the reason. Thank you so much.
Re:So far, I am impressed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So far, I am impressed (Score:5, Informative)
So do I.
Wait, actually I don't. Because I run Amarok 1 with KDE3 libs still installed, even with a KDE4 desktop. There are quite a few KDE3 apps I can run, in fact.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Best KDE 4 distro? (Score:5, Interesting)
For the adventurous that have been using KDE 4, which distros do you think have done the best job at packaging it? Also will they be releasing packages for KDE 4.1 shortly, or are they waiting for their next normal release cycle?
I've been having all sorts of kernel/Xorg headaches with Hardy Heron, and am looking to dump it. I'm planning on moving all my must-have software to another box running Debian stable which will free up my desktop to experiment with a new distro.
Re:Best KDE 4 distro? (Score:5, Funny)
Gentoo. Not only do you get to run KDE 4.1, but you also get to watch it compile from source.
KDE 4.0 was always more of a test release (Score:5, Insightful)
After months of development and controversy
I've never been sure why there was much controversy. The various announcements around the time of the 4.0 release and in advance made it clear that KDE 4 was the entire new desktop (in all its future versions) with new core technologies like Phonon and Plasma, whereas KDE 4.0 was the very first release of said desktop, wherein the underlying technologies were frozen so that developers could start using them, but the apps and desktop were incomplete.
I tried it as a LiveCD and the desktop experience was lukewarm, so I went back to 3.5. But I never wrote off KDE 4. No one should have, and there never should have been any controversy, considering what 4.0 was. The 4.1 release is the one people have actually been waiting for, since the apps and desktop components have had time to adjust to the new libaries, so if you adopted 4.0 thinking it would be your new desktop and you hated it, you probably jumped the gun. Have another look.
Re:KDE 4.0 was always more of a test release (Score:5, Interesting)
I've never been sure why there was much controversy. The various announcements around the time of the 4.0 release and in advance made it clear that KDE 4 was the entire new desktop (in all its future versions) with new core technologies like Phonon and Plasma, whereas KDE 4.0 was the very first release of said desktop, wherein the underlying technologies were frozen so that developers could start using them, but the apps and desktop were incomplete.
The controversy is that it redefines what .0 means to most computer users and has meant throughout the release history of KDE.
It only occurred to me today, but I actually think KDE should do it again for KDE 5. If consistently used, there's nothing wrong with the following version numbering:
[b].0[/b] is the [i]zeroeth[/i] release set of a new product or technology generation. It could be used instead of silly names such as alpha, beta, preview and technology release alltogether and would indicate incompleteness.
[b].1[/b[ would be the [i]first[/i] release and would be complete.
This would probably also be more intuative to end users because only developers use zero-indexed lists.
Then again, it would not have provided the KDE release team with a way to push forward their new platform the way they did now. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Re:KDE 4.0 was always more of a test release (Score:5, Insightful)
It only occurred to me today, but I actually think KDE should do it again for KDE 5. If consistently used, there's nothing wrong with the following version numbering
I agree. I actually like the KDE 4 scheme better than the usual one. Partly I like it because terms like "alpha" and "beta" are used inconsistently nowadays, and are [google.com] often [google.com] abused [google.com]. The so-called controversy with KDE 4 erupted mainly because KDE didn't go the easy route and call it 3.99 or beta. The complainers didn't pay attention to what they were getting and had false expectations as a result. However, the paradigm that .0 would be a library freeze to build a platform foundation was very sound, IMHO.
Complaint about this review (Score:5, Insightful)
Pros and cons of KDE 4.1 (Score:4, Informative)
* KDE 4.1 Plasma panels are now resizable and you can have multiple , and they can be repositioned by dragging them by mouse.
* "The Folder View plasmoid
* The article raves about the beauty of KDE4.1.
* Application support has grown and out-of-the-download contains Konqueror, Dolphin, Gwenview, Kopete, JuK, Kontact, the KDE CD Player, and the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos
* Dolphin has been improved with tree view and tabbed browsing features.
* Is is faster than KDE4.0, "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop".
* "The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. "
* "Nvidia graphics cards
* Amarok 2.0 is still not complete
The article is finished by saying that the author has finally replaced KDE3 as his production DE with KDE4.1.
In short, whether by design or by listening to the criticism, KDE4.1 seems to have addressed if not all then at least the most important warts of the unfortunate 4.0 release. I'll probably still wait for 4.2, but as a KDE fan I'm certainly excited!
Power management? Decent WiFi controls? (Score:5, Informative)
I've got to say, Kubuntu Hardy with KDE4 was extremely disappointing. Neither Ubuntu nor KDE provided a functional wifi manager - The Network Settings application shared by many Ubuntu desktops couldn't write a interfaces file that preserved WEP keys, and was insanely cludgy. Steal some code from Maemo, people.
More KDE4 specific, using it stripped me of any sort of effective GUI-based power management. Hibernation, sleeping, and battery usage controls were completely absent. All it brought to the table was a (commonplace and unimpressive) battery monitor.
I enjoy using KDE4, but I really hope they're getting their acts together with this release, so far as laptops go.
Re:Power management? Decent WiFi controls? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We'd put more trust in Windows if it hadn't given us such a piss poor track record.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
KDE41: my experience (Score:5, Informative)
So far I've had the following issues/nags/etc:
* Using the resize on the upper right of the new menu instantly made the default size *bigger*, which isn't what I wanted, and there was no way to resize back to even its default size.
* Input Actions don't work at all. Yes, the action and the group it's in are not disabled, and KHotKeys daemon is activated from Global Settings. No key combos work.
* The main panel glitched out and everything was horribly spaced out when I tried to add and remove widgets from it; I had to completely recreate a new panel to fix it.
* While it's not exactly slow, it does have several slow redraw issues (e.g. the classic launcher menu) and I've seen it lag at random times much more than KDE3 ever did. I know this is probably to be expected, but it's worth noting. No, I don't use desktop effects (compositing), as I've seen that slows things down much more in general (games, etc) than it helps with desktop elements.
* System Settings crashed on me on more than one occasion.
Overall, much better than the completely unusable 4.0, but they still have a long way to go to make KDE4 even remotely stable.
Mish-mash (Score:5, Insightful)
I look at this screenshot [linux.com] linked from the article however and I see a confusing mash-up of design agendas. Dolphin file manager looks drab and strangely cluttered with shallow implied 3D for tabs and other delimiters yet the OS X style scroll bars bulge out. What are those scrollbars supposed to be made of? Blown glass? Gel? The panel at the bottom caves in with greater depth than the background image.. The simulated lighting model they're using to shade elements come from all over the place. I can count about 3 contradicting implied directional lights, from the panel to the icons to the widgets themselves..
Other things confuse: What is that Logitech logo doing in the top-right corner? Those tiny minimise/maximise buttons look like they're from another universe entirely: not echoed in any other element on the desktop, lest of all the stripey title bar.
I'm not convinced much effort has been spent on making KDE look 'stunning'..
KDE was very tweakable last time I looked so I'm sure someone will come up with a unifying theme. Glad to hear stability and speed have been greatly improved.
Ugh. (Score:4, Informative)
STILL can't hide system tray icons?
This is a big problem for me. I don't have a widescreen monitor, so the system tray is taking over the panel, squeezing my task bar to a frustratingly small size.
KDE3 has an excellent system tray icon hiding mechanism. Why does KDE4 make me look at them all, all the time?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I follow the KDE panel development mailing lists and blogs so I read just this week that the System tray hiding is going into the KDE SVN or is already in. I don't know if it will be backported to a KDE 4.1.1, but it is a definite for 4.2.
What is a plasmoid? (Score:3, Insightful)
Can someone please clue me in as to what a plasmoid is? What are the differences between a plasmoid and a regular application? Why would I want to use, say, a folder view plasmoid rather than a regular file browsing app?
Re:What is a plasmoid? (Score:5, Funny)
As usual, Wikipedia is your friend:
Hope that clears things up some.
Re:What is a plasmoid? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What is a plasmoid? (Score:5, Informative)
Ok, a plasmoid is generally a visualisation of a Data Engine. There can be many plasmoids for the same data engine (eg. this means that if we write 10 task bars then the back end code is all shared). Unlike an application a plasmoid doesn't have its own process, and simply responds to changes in the underlying data engine (because of various bits of wizardry this means that they will consume less battery power too btw). In a model-view design, you can consider a plasmoid to be a pure view. That said, many of the current plasmoids blur this by including model functionality - this is likely to become less prevelant as we determine what data engines we need.
Bye bye to KHTML? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now that KDE 4.1 is using WebKit in place of KHTML, does this mean EOL of KHTML? For anyone using Konquerer in the new KDE, how does web performance differ from the previous version?
Re:Bye bye to KHTML? (Score:4, Informative)
As a warning... (Score:3, Informative)
...from the KDE devs, read this before you install:
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3F [kde.org]
(Disclaimer: I used KDE 4.0, was aware it was a developer release, and liked it for what it was despite the lack of polish. I've been using the KDE 4.1 betas and RCs for a while and really like what's been done and it's really usable for me. But YMMV and there are some parts that aren't up to par with 3.5.x yet. That's fine - I didn't use those parts. But if you are using them, then 3.5.x is still being patched and updated, so it might be worth waiting 'til 4.2 before you switch.)
Desktop backgrounds? (Score:3, Insightful)
So does this release allow you to set the different desktop backgrounds for different virtual desktops across multiple monitors, like KDE 3 did?
Or are they still trying to dumb down the desktop experience a la GNOME, Ubuntu and KDE 4.0?
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Funny)
Do we really need notification of a (dot)1 release?
You must be new here.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Funny)
You must be new here.
he says as I compare UIDs ....
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Informative)
The number in parenthesis refers to the section of the manual where the command can be found. See man(1).
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
If he knew anything about Unix nomenclature, that'd be a dot(1) release.
Heck no.
(I don't, I'm still confused when people refer to man(6) or what-not. Can anyone help me out, I couldn't find a wikipedia page or FAQ on the numbers in parenthesis anywhere.)
It comes from the fact that the manpages have headings that look like e.g.:
LS(1) manual LS(1)
So ENTRYNAME(MANUALSECTION).
So essentially the thing(2) notation simply indicates in which section of the (now electronic) manual the thing is. For instance, commands are section 1, system calls section 2, library functions section 3, kernel interfaces section 4, file formats section 5, and so on.
It is mostly used to indicate that we're talking about manpages, so e.g. "see open(2) for details" indicates "open's manpage." More verbose usages such as "see the manpage for open(2)" are also seen.
This overlaps with a second usage, which makes more sense to me but is less common: to use the manpage notation to indicate which type of thing you're talking about. For instance, there is a command 'printf' and a library function 'printf,' so saying 'use printf(1)' or 'use printf(3)' to disambiguate the two is a convenient use of the 'manpage notation.'
But mostly people mean it as a shorthand for 'the manpage.'
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
A good example is crontab(1) and crontab(5). Try 'man 1 crontab' and 'man 5 crontab' and you'll get the command and the config file, respectively. It normally doesn't matter, as if there's only one in the manual, you get the one if you do 'man whatever'.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Informative)
If you knew anything about Unix nomenclature, you'd know the number in a man is just the section. And if you'd read "man man" as all good geeks should, you'd have all the sections spelled out.
1 Executable programs or shell commands /dev) /etc/passwd
2 System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
3 Library calls (functions within program libraries)
4 Special files (usually found in
5 File formats and conventions eg
6 Games
7 Miscellaneous (including macro packages and conventions), e.g. man(7), groff(7)
8 System administration commands (usually only for root)
9 Kernel routines [Non standard]
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The font still sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you provide a screenshot for comparison for what a decent default font should look like in your opinion?
Re:The font still sucks (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you provide a screenshot for comparison for what a decent default font should look like in your opinion?
(This is not a flame! I do use KDE mind you!)
I am not the OP, but if you want to see what decent fonts look like google for a Ubuntu (Gnome) screen shoot.
Here is an anecdote for you:
As a full-time KDE user, when I bought a computer for my parents (1 year ago) I installed Kubuntu on it. Since Kubuntu has been such a mess in the last year, upon my last visit, I installed Ubuntu on that computer.
My mother (~60 years old, has no clue whatsoever about what KDE or Gnome are) upon being presented to what I called a new Linux flavor, said, spontaneously, within some 5 seconds looking at the Gnome menus:
Oh, the fonts are much beter
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It all depends on settings.
I'd say, Ubuntu was first distro which actually made Gnome look good in general and fonts in particular. (Before Ubuntu kicked in, default fonts to read menus/ets in Gnome 2.x required a microscope. No font settings dialog was presentin 2.0.x releases either.)
I would also add that default Kubuntu isn't really good example of KDE setup. Many complain about it. Even I complain about it. If you like *buntus - then use default Ubuntu and do not wander around. The beauty of such
Re:The font still sucks (Score:5, Informative)
How could you not understand the claim?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/KDE_4.png [wikimedia.org]
Look how the "R" pushes against the "o" in Root, how the "F" is against the "r" in Fresh, and how the "T" is against the "o" in Tools. Look how the "T" is right up against the "r" in Trash.
Look how freakishly wide the "H" is in Help and the "V" is in View. Look how weirdly thin the "F" is in File and the "T" is in Tools. "W" in general just looks strange.
Some letters are properly spaced from their siblings, and others are jammed right up against each other. Some letters are cartoonishly wide while others are strangely thin. Maybe you don't notice or care about any of this, but it's a lack of professionalism and attention to detail that has lasted for years. They keep rewriting their panels and shells and file managers, but they still won't change the goddamn font!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Insightful)
And, taking previous releases of KDE as example, 4.5 will be the full-fledged, stable version, so it will also worth a note ;-)
(no flames, please, I'm a KDE user, too)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Funny)
Since KDE 4.0 was never meant for users (I've read multiple articles about how it was only supposed to be for developers to get their KDE software ported) and 4.1 was supposed to be for "general use", I'd say this *did* warrant mention on slashdot.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a lot more concerned about the substance of the release than what number they throw on it.
For instance, MacOS has only had point releases for going on a decade now. In this case, the release is a huge improvement over the point-oh-no.
Re:SARCASM CENTAL (Score:5, Funny)
Here is a picture of the recommended minimum system requirements for Vista:
http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/markrussinovich/WindowsLiveWriter/PushingtheLimitsofWindowsPhysicalMemory_878B/image_4.png [technet.com]
Re:SARCASM CENTAL (Score:4, Insightful)
Not that I'm defending Vista, but KDE isn't an operating system.
Using a KDE release to rag on Vista's stability is like using a new product line from BF Goodwrench to rag on Ford Explorers.
I would say though, that KDE appears to kick GDI+'s ass. I haven't played around with KDE 4 or Aero enough to make such a comparison though.
-Rick
Re:SARCASM CENTAL (Score:4, Funny)
Linux itself with no DE is not usable to an average person, and so is Aero without the rest of Vista.
The key difference is that Linux itself is usable to at least some people, a DE just makes it usable by a lot more people. Conversely Vista isn't usable by anyone, Aero just makes it obvious to a lot more people. ;)
Re:But ... does it run linux? (Score:4, Informative)
but does it run on windows?
actually... somewhat [kde.org]. Not the desktop environment itself, I dont think, but KDE applications. I wasnt able to get it to work when i tried it a few months ago. it might be working better now.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've actually seen some screenshots of plasma widgets and panels on Windows. Aaron Segio said he didn't personally plan to port plasma to Windows, but someone else was doing it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention the KDE games are generally better than any other desktop games (although desktop games in general are only good for time-wasting
However I think the DE itself WILL be able to run on Windows, I
Re:Firefox 3? (Score:5, Informative)
I also use an Oxygen icon theme for Firefox, since that program doesn't change any icons.
The scrollbar bug doesn't happen for me, not entirely sure under what conditions it happens, it's also possible that it has been fixed in newer version of that software or only happened with FF2.
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Insightful)
Do they need you? Do they have an obligation to do anything for you?
From my perspective, they're Santa Claus: they may not give me all the free gifts I want or asked for ("I want the entire GI Joe collection"), but they give me a helluva lot of free gifts regardless.
Re:Remember folks (Score:4, Insightful)
BTW, unless you send money, time, or expertise to KDE e.V., you are a leech. This isn't a bad thing; it's what they want. Nevertheless, it means that you have nothing meaningful to contribute but bug-reports and feedback.
IOW, you have gotten absolutely zero reason for a sense of entitlement. When the XFree86 thing went down, I didn't bitch about it because I didn't do a damn thing for the project to earn the right. I just moved to x.org. If you think the KDE devs don't esteem your lofty opinions enough, consider using a different desktop.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Often times it is considered "A feature."
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You won't be able to sue them for it, but I'm sure if you called up the company behind KDE they'd be happy to negotiate a price.
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Insightful)
Which would be why Microsoft has been getting a lot of bad publicity recently (just joking!)
You would have that power, and more, if you paid for a support from Canonical, Novell or Redhat (this last not so much, since we're talking about the desktop here and Redhat is more of a server distro).
You see, Microsoft or Apple don't really have an obligation to fix your bugs, as when you buy the OS you've handed over the only bargaining counter you held. Companies that support GNU/Linux, on the other hand, live and die by the quality of their support, and ability to retain customers in support contracts.
Let me give an example: if you have a heavy investment in GNU/Linux, and support contracts with Canonical. If they do something you don't like, you can switch to Mandriva or SLED. However, if you have a heavy investment in Windows, and Microsoft does something you don't like, what other Windows vendor are you going to switch to?
Microsoft in particular has a lot of power to force people into upgrading, they can leverage the other software they produce: Office, DirectX, games etc. to force you to upgrade by tying them to new versions of Windows.
Note that I'm not arguing whether desktop GNU/Linux is a joke, just that this is not the reason for it. :)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"shareholders they are beholden to which requires that they deliver quality products"
How can someone be so disinformed in this day and age???
Shareholders require to deliver *sellable* products. Sometimes the way to produce a sellable product is by means of its quality. More often than not this is not only unnecesary (marketing usually makes for a better output than quality) but even a liability (on pure market forces in order to oversell a product yours must be even better so if you are already selling a
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Informative)
According to the article Troy (the one who wrote the blog post you're referring to) already apologised [livejournal.com] for it:
Also note that this is just one person, they are not representative of the entire KDE4 dev community. Secondly, note from that apology blog post, that Troy -- I keep wanting to write McLure -- Unrau has stopped working on KDE, so your point is not only inaccurate but untimely.
I agree with the Funny mod though.
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't really see any problem with what he said. He's RIGHT. Regular users, especially rabid, demanding ones, don't add anything useful to an Open Source Software project. The number of users a piece of software has is just a pissing match. Unlike commercial software, where more users means more revenue, the opposite is true. The more users you've got, the more you're spending to serve them(Bandwidth isn't free), the more effort you've got to expend to meet their demands. Further, the less resources you have to focus on individual issues.
Re:Remember folks is Flamebait (Score:4, Informative)
I'd mod AC down, but poisonous propaganda like this deserves a rebuttal.
From the link provided So if you are one of these poisonous users who offer no thanks for the time, energy and skill that goes into creating KDE, please go away. Find another project to harass (preferably closed source) as we've had enough of it. That is a totally appropriate response to toxic personalities.
Furthermore, entities that exchange software for money need licensees, better known as users up to a certain point. Entities that write software for their own pleasure have no such need. So, literally speaking, KDE doesn't "need" users.
Finally, KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine. The packages are in debian experimental, which have no dependency issues if you are running Lenny. Also worth noting, Lenny is **very** reliable for production and desktop use right now.
Re:Remember folks is Flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
"KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine"
That is great news. Whenever I see something with a long list of new features I kind of groan about what the new hardware requirements are likely to be.
Re:Remember folks (Score:4, Interesting)
Well no shit. You'd have to be a pretty big asshole to think otherwise.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
KDE sounds like it's becoming the new Gentoo: a very nice system that was torn apart from the inside out by people who'd rather bicker than program.
I was once a happy user of both KDE and Gentoo, but for the last year I've been using stock Ubuntu on everything. Since then, my Linux experience has been a lot more... peaceful.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
See? This is what's wrong with Open Source... it's run by a bunch of arrogant know-it-alls who hold users in contempt and have no interest in providing them with something that works and is useful. That's why I stick with proprietary, commerical software: because I'm a paying customer I'll be treated with respect!
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry - a rant about some abusive, ungrateful users isn't informative. It may, however, be funny.
Re:KDE's one stupid, fatal flaw (Score:4, Informative)
I'd use KDE happily & lovingly if only I could disable the damn "tap-to-click" on my trackpad!
Isn't that an X-Windows problem, rather than a KDE problem? Anyway, here are the notes that I jotted down last time I dealt with it (not sure where I got my info):
Edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to turn off conversion of a tap on the
touchpad into a left mouse click (begs for accidents):
Option "TapButton" "0"
Option "MaxTapMove" "0"
Option "MaxTapTime" "0"
Note that some people recommend also doing:
Option "HorizScrollDelta" "0"
Option "VertScrollDelta" "0"
Re:real target audience (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent is not a troll. Parent is misled. Items of note:
1. Amarok is in a separate development cycle, it's managed by totally different people. I'm running the Amarok 2 development version and it's all right. Still lacking some of the features of the 1.x cycle, but they're trying to port it to entirely an entirely new framework. Good work so far. Check it out.
2. If it's not enough for you, there's nothing stopping you from running KDE 3 applications on KDE 4.
3. Yeah, Dolphin sucks.