Military Uses Virtual Iraq To Treat PTSD 172
Hugh Pickens writes "Traditionally the best treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder [PTSD] — being raped, narrowly escaping the collapse of the Twin Towers, or witnessing a buddy die on the battlefield — is to have the person relive the trauma using his or her imagination. Repeated exposure to the horror can desensitize individuals and help them stay calm enough to reprocess what happened and get beyond it. Now Clinical Psychologist Albert "Skip" Rizzo has developed a program that has had great success in treating returning troops from Iraq. A soldier with PTSD recounts what happened, and a therapist seated before a computer then creates an environment in the program Virtual Iraq that captures the essential elements of the episode. By donning special goggles, the soldier can see a reenactment and while the simulation starts off relatively tame over the course of several weeks, the therapist monitors the patient 's response and more elements of the episode are introduced until the individual can finally go through an intensely vivid recreation of it without being overpowered by terror. Other programs offered to treat PTSD include Virtual Airplane, Virtual Audiences, Virtual Heights, Virtual Storm, and Virtual Vietnam."
Other PTSD programs (Score:5, Funny)
* Watching Uwe Boll films.
* Being a chair in Ballmer's office.
* Working as a new Microsoft guru and telling the angry masses with a straight face that Vista is great! No, really, it is!
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* Watching anything on Fox News.
* The new Firefox "Awesome" bar.
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*
* profit
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While I don't have any intellectual authority to comment either way on the therapy, I wonder what data you have to back up these claims that this type of therapy not only does not work, but makes individuals worse?
I realize this is slashdot comments, and that there are lots of people making comments about things they have no real knowledge of, but this is borderline ridiculous.
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Traditionally the best treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder [PTSD] -- being raped, narrowly escaping the collapse of the Twin Towers, or witnessing a buddy die on the battlefield -- is to have the person relive the trauma using his or her imagination.
Uh oh.
Are they going to force rape victims watch rape-hentai now?
~Jarik
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While I can't comment on chairs, I am sure, I have seen people surviving watching Uwe Boll movies or spewing Microsoft marketing crap in front of other people.
On the other hand, if there is going to be some public beating of Microsoft marketdroid anywhere near SF Bay Area, count me in.
Might work for some things... (Score:1)
I don't see this being particularly helpful if the cause was rape or watching a friend die though. I'd imagine you'd just feel worse.
Re:Might work for some things... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, if the armchair
Re:Might work for some things... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, if the armchair /. people have other methods that have been empirically backed by a number of excellent studies, I'm sure that these people would be all ears. They're really just doing their best to help, and would love some more.
I've got one... don't send our young men and women into wars unnecesarily.
PTSD is a lot less impacting if you never have to experience the traumatic part.
-Rick
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re:If they didn't want to be there, they wouldn't be.
from another post:The fact is that there are people for whom the military is the best/only job opportunity, or the best/only chance at college, or the best/only chance at getting out of their rapidly failing town.
Free choice entails a starting basis of equality in set and setting.
Many of our so-called free choices are in reality severly limited IMHO.
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So what you are saying is that PTSD is okay so long as our troops and Marines are happy while they are in theater?
I'm not saying we shouldn't send our military into conflicts, I'm not saying our young men and women are idiots for signing up (hell, I did my 4), what I am saying is that we are currently engaged in two internation policing actions with the military. 1 of these actions is the result of a government sponsored terrorist attack that killed thousands of Americans. 1 of these actions is the result o
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So what you are saying is that PTSD is okay so long as our troops and Marines are happy while they are in theater?
Um, not even close. Your answer was to just not send them to war. My retort was that they're volunteers and by and large want to be there. PSTD is serious and we need to support those who come back with it. I just didn't want this to turn into another "sending our kids to war" argument. They're grown ups who voluntarily signed up in war time. They know what they're doing.
1 of these actions is the result of a misinformation campaign designed to pursue a political agenda in the Middle East
Sadly, somewhat true.
specifically in a country that was of no threat to the USA.
Whoah there buddy! Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Iraqi agents were involved in the 93 WTC
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Um, not even close. Your answer was to just not send them to war.
Negative ghost rider. My answer was to not send them to war unnecessarily. PTSD is a very serious issue. I work for an R&D firm with a bunch of doctors who lead the field in depression, anxiety, OCD, dimentia and other related mental health conditions. We have been lobbying hard to get one of our IVR based mental health screening systems in with the VA so that we can help identify the vets who are most at risk and get them immediate attention. None of this fill out a pamphlet and wait 6 months BS.
Whoah there buddy! Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Iraqi agents were involved in the 93 WTC attack, the 95 OKC attack, and probably the 98 Embassy bombing. They were far from "no threat."
I thin
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The '98 Embassy bombing was carried out by alQueda. al Queda is a Sunni Islamic terror organization with no ties to the country of Iraq
Then why did UBL say he conducted the Embassy bombings in response to UN sanctions against Iraq? Why show such strong support for Iraq when they're not involved? BTW, the Embassy bombings were 7 Aug 98, 2 days after Saddam thew out weapons inspectors. Seems an awfully big coincidence for UBL to attack us so close to Saddam's action, then issue a letter taking credit sayig he did it to support Iraq.
The 95 Oklahoma City bombing was entirely funded and performed by US citizens
Read The Third Terrorist by Jayna Davis. Turns out John Doe #2 was Hussein al Husseini, an Iraqi agent. Nic
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But if "body counts" is your best metric then you have no choice but to rejoice, because they're nowhere near what they were in 2006. Iraqis have finally turned against the insurgency and started cooperating with US troops. The result has been a dramatic decrease in violence in Iraq, and now most of the country - including the former strongholds of the insurgency - is actually voluntarily under Iraqi control. T
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How can morale be so high when the body count grows
There has been much progress here recently, but even before the Surge and Awakening there were plenty of things to keep morale up. The media didn't report any of it, but we built thousands of schools, mosques, and other facilities and directly saw the fruits of our labor. We've been killing and capturing some really nasty people, some with violent criminal records back in the States. We've provided jobs, cleaned up neighborhods, got the oil industry back online. Things are going much much better here th
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re: If they didn't want to be there, they wouldn't be.
Many of these so called volunteers have very little actual choice in the matter.
No money, no education, no job, no future prospects, and lied to by the recruiters.
Volunteer now! (Or become a homeless junkie.) Yay free will!
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Sorry for the double, one might say triple, post.
The system seemed to have eaten my original reply, yet here it appears.
I wish more things in life functioned thusly...
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But where are the studies that show that "reliving the trauma" is better in general?
There's so far evidence that the popular method of "reliving or talking about it" isn't such a good idea:
http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/06/venting-emotions-after-trauma-predicts.php [spring.org.uk]
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1296912 [nih.gov]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar/11/mentalhealth.healthandwellbeing [guardian.co.uk]
I'm inclined that like most memory stuff, repeating something over and over again just makes it easier for
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The point isn't to make you feel better. The point is to be able to address what happened and move on...
Making someone relive the worse experience in their life is not just torture, it entrenches the trauma even more in their life.
As for other things you can do to help, try NLP [wikipedia.org]. Oh, and exactly what use is empirically backing something with excellent studies that doesn't work? NLP does.
Re:Might work for some things... (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is that the individual is likely to suffer from flashbacks whenever similar simple events happen in the real world. If they are walking down the street, and hear a loud noise such as a car backfiring, a container door being slammed, or some construction work, it would trigger those memories causing them to freeze-up, get angry or be unhappy.
The idea of this treatment is to desensitize them to these events so that those memories aren't triggered.
Re:Might work for some things... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Might work for some things... (Score:4, Funny)
I don't see this being particularly helpful if the cause was rape or watching a friend die though. I'd imagine you'd just feel worse.
I was planning to get through a dungeon full of dragons... we were all ready, and then Leroy.... BWAAAA! *SOB*
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What happened? Was he eaten by a grue?
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I've already posted so I can't mod you 'off topic', but that has NOTING to do with PTSD at ALL.
Hell, the story doesn't even have an ending! It just stops!
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Depends on who is doing the raping?
Sign me up for Virtual Getting Raped By A Pack of Hot Bisexual Chicks 3D.
Hey.. Isn't that the same technique as Dianetics (Score:2, Informative)
Scientology techniques combined with computers!
More seriously though, this is an effective technique, but it is painful for the person going through it. There are much better techniques found in fringe places like NLP that provide ways for people to get through severe problems like that without forcing them to relive trauma such as a rape over and over again. This technique seems almost sadistic.
I'm waiting for... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm waiting for Virtual Staff Meeting.
*shudder*
Although I suppose the fact that I can joke about it means I'm coming along. *twitch* *twitch*
--MarkusQ
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Virtual Childhood
Virtual Public Education
Virtual DMV
Virtual Waterboarding
That explains... (Score:1, Funny)
Repeated exposure to the horror can desensitize individuals...
That must explain American television. How can anybody in their right mind watch that sh*t?
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I saw all those comments hinting that this treatment seemed sadistic, and I immediately thought, sadistic? try watching network television....
I suppose it would work though, I just get an image of Will Smith in a particularly nasty Clockwork Orange therapy film... over and over
Of interest to Slashdotters... (Score:5, Funny)
...do they have Virtual Girls?
Re:Of interest to Slashdotters... (Score:4, Funny)
Virtual Ex-Wife?
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Virtual girlfriends... oh, you have that already and we call them "In your fantasy".
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Virtual Getting Out Of Parent's Basement?
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Here, here. They can start with something really tame, like just nagging about cleaning the gutters. Then move on to the hard stuff ("Why are your loser friends playing Warhammer in the garage again?"), then eventually the really insane, PTSD-inducing stuff ("Do these jeans make me look fat?") I see a huge market for this device, and not just among geeks.
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Continuing, with the theme, here are some more despicable PTSD-causing life experiences:
Virtual: "I'm Pregnant!" ; "Children" ; "Wife: Let's go shopping!" ; "Let's install Windows on this computer!" and worst of all "0 - Troll on /."
Hard Sell (Score:5, Funny)
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Clearly, you've never visited the Pirate Bay before...
Cash and Carry .gov (Score:1, Flamebait)
Yet another way for the veterans affairs office to waste taxpayers dollars.
http://fnonsl.fantasy-net.net/category/vet-center [fantasy-net.net]
^^^__Did you know the VA hospital owns property in second life? They're going to build virtual ski slopes for the legless vets to ski down. Woohoo!
Kind of reminds me of the carlin skit "Dollys for froggys"
Waste? (Score:3, Insightful)
If it helps legless vets, more power to them. You sound like the kind who spit on returning Vietnam vets.
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Just the legless ones. Sounds like a typical libertarian.
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No i'm the kind of guy who thinks;
a. Our soldiers shouldn't be overseas in the first place.
b. the ones that have had thier legs/arms blown off, should get new arms/legs. What the hell is a video game going to do for them?
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This seems to be the next generation of exposure therapy. I say bravo to the VA for pushing lead-edge therapies (that have significant literature backing their efficacy) that may help save a number of our individuals form lifetimes of hurt. One of the tragedies of this
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Yet another way for the veterans affairs office to waste taxpayers dollars.
Do you think the cost of this intervention is anything like the cost of the war to begin with? It's a trivial extra cost. Decent nations factor in the cost of being nice to the vets after a war.
More importantly, is the cost of the intervention more than the cost of having the PTSD sufferer continue to suffer? Fixing up a young traumatised soldier is an investment: from one rather crass point of view, the government effectively invests in creating taxpayers, and I bet refurbishing a soldier is much cheap
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PS. yes, that sort of whining about health expenditure makes me really angry and anti-american. It is amazing how so many Americans believe that their system is superior and the only morally defensible system. Empirically, it is more expensive and less effective than other Western systems. People die because of your theoretical whining about 'socialised health systems.'
Yes, yours is a great country and all, but it's got a few damned ugly patches, and the worst of it is that so many of you don't have th
Thanks (Score:3, Interesting)
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From your link: "It is supported by primarily by donations and is not affiliated with or sponsored by any US government agency."
Try again.
hm... (Score:1, Interesting)
Doesn't any of the 100 million war themed FPS work?
Virtual Vietnam (Score:2, Funny)
Virtual Vietnam
I think I played that game years ago. It was severely unbalanced in the beginning with the attack helicopters that couldn't be shot down and the M60 infantry being deadly accurate on the move.
And for the Slashdot Crowd... (Score:5, Funny)
And for the slashdot crowd, Virtual Pick-up, Virtual Bar-scene, and Virtual Date.
wikileaks should get this info (Score:2)
then someone should port the terror scenarios to an fps
SERGEANT BILKO WENT INSANE DUE TO WHAT HAPPENED HERE, can you survive?
Good idea. (Score:1, Funny)
Let me know when they come out with Virtual Catholic Elementary School.
Using virtual worlds to desensitize (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't this show that intense violent video games might very well have a desensitizing effect on kids? I'm not talking about stupid theories about turning kids into killers, I just mean that they might react less strongly, and possibly less negatively, to violence after playing Grand Theft Auto. Something to think about. Anyone have any studies based on this?
p.s.
I'm a gamer and personally love GTA and many other other very violent games.
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Maybe if it was graphic, realistic violence. But I would doubt cartoon GTA or Halo-style violence desensitizes very much. That's worlds away from actual violence. Even on graphic shows like the Sopranos or whatever, the violence is very stylized and not depicted in a realistic way.
A better example would be something like snuff films. But if you're watching snuff films, my guess is that you already have problems.
What about PTSD in Second Life? (Score:4, Funny)
What if you suffer from PTSD induced in Second Life? Do they have a Virtual Virtual?
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They've done it for warcraft [theonion.com]. ;)
Well... (Score:2, Funny)
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"I've had virtual sex so many times I'm desensitized to that now, too."
It's the calluses. Switch hands.
Brainstorm (1983) (Score:2)
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IIRC, the technique was refined over time, and finally perfected with the "doomsday" hologram codenamed "BRTN-E SPRS"
o.O (Score:1)
I'd play this!
Manchurian Candidate Anyone? (Score:2)
Not (intended) for PTSD (Score:4, Insightful)
"Other programs offered to treat PTSD include Virtual Airplane, Virtual Audiences, Virtual Heights, Virtual Storm, and Virtual Vietnam."
All but the last are for desenstitization of phobias (as are those for snakes and spiders). The same programs would work for PTSD as they're simply VR of exposure to a particular situation, but I can't recall there ever being a case of audience-induced PTSD.
Rizzo has also used his VR work in stroke rehab, a worthy effort. OTOH, he used it to 'erase' the well known and much decried persistent gender effects (males being better at it than females) in the mental rotation task (MRT) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_rotation [wikipedia.org] . Not bad work, but he credited VR, not simply exposure and practice. One of my undergrad labs approached the Virginia Tech VR "tank" folks and asked for help in replicating this. The VR lab suggested using VRML instead for our own convenience. We did so, and we built two full sets of the MRT out of wooden blocks. We tested males and females from psychology as well as from engineering. We found the effect he did, but got the same effect from both virtual and manual manipulation. The effect was from practice, not specifically VR immersion.
To pull this back on topic, the above tends to support the traditional military medicine model for treating "shell shock" and "battle fatigue" (as PTSD was know for the past century) by exposure, ie. "return to the battlefield as soon as possible". Just as with electroshock therapy, much as I dislike the fact the numbers show it to be effective.
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To pull this back on topic, the above tends to support the traditional military medicine model for treating "shell shock" and "battle fatigue" (as PTSD was know for the past century) by exposure, ie. "return to the battlefield as soon as possible". Just as with electroshock therapy, much as I dislike the fact the numbers show it to be effective.
It's different in prolonged low-intensity combat situations. The WWII observation was that most troops were likely to develop debilitating PTSD after about 200
Re:Not (intended) for PTSD (Score:5, Informative)
Few soldiers were in Vietnam for more than 6 months unless they wanted to be.
Where did you get that idea. The "year in the 'Nam" was absolutely standard, and hardly anybody got out earlier than that unless they were dead, wounded, or completely loony.
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We don't call it "shell shock" anymore because it isn't something that just happens to soldiers. My Father developed PTSD on the job as a police officer after a shooting incident where we was forced to take a young man's life in order to save his own.
On that note, getting out of police work was probably the best thing that's ever happened to him. The "traditional military medicine model" forces the mentally disabled into life-or-death situations that they might not be able to handle due to the severity of t
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"Other programs offered to treat PTSD include Virtual Airplane, Virtual Audiences, Virtual Heights, Virtual Storm, and Virtual Vietnam."
All but the last are for desenstitization of phobias (as are those for snakes and spiders). The same programs would work for PTSD as they're simply VR of exposure to a particular situation, but I can't recall there ever being a case of audience-induced PTSD.
Ah, I see, that makes more sense. I was kinda wondering how many people were traumatized by an audience.
So, if say I
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So, if say I had a phobia of airplanes, and at the same time say a phobia of snakes, then the most optimal treatment would be Virtual...?
... Valium?
I know where you were headed. I saw Samuel L. Jackson interviewed by Jon Stewart, and they made ample use of the phrase. So did others. It got overused. To use it now would be cheap. So I refuse to say [Virtual] Snakes On A Motherfucking Plane.
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Oh damn.
A few minor corrections- (Score:2)
-exposure, ie. "return to the battlefield as soon as possible"
When you have PTSD, there is a difference in returning to the actual battlefield and returning home. The coping mechanisms and traits that you learned on the battlefield are almost by definition very well suited to life on the battlefield; e.g., avoiding wide open spaces, keeping your weapon at the ready, sleeping in body armor, keeping your bags packed, hitting the deck pronto if you hear explosions, etc.
Those traits don't always emotionally exp
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I hope this helps someone. And any vets that read this: look up your local VA or vet center. There's no shame in getting help.
-B out.
I go to Mountain Home VAMC in Johnson City TN. Reckon they can help me? I need help trying to figure out where anything you said comprises a correction to what I said (as you changed the subject to indicate). Looks more like you used a piece of a phrase for a jumping off point to express some good but barely relevant pieces of information and some fairly relevant tangents.
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Sorry, I was referring to:
the above tends to support the traditional military medicine model for treating "shell shock" and "battle fatigue" (as PTSD was know for the past century) by exposure, ie. "return to the battlefield as soon as possible"
I thought that what you meant was that the best therapy for a soldier was to get them back into battlefield mode, either by deploying them again or by letting them pretend that they were still in the battlefield at home. I was saying (in a roundabout way, I suppose)
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Instant cure for PTSD
If you want anyone to take you seriously, provide a citation, because this just sounds ignorant. PTSD results in the brain becoming mechanically unable to suppress the fight-or-flight response when the patient imagines the stressful incident. I doubt that a drug which does nothing more than temporarily induce euphoria can fix the brain's damaged fight-or-flight response.
EMDR (Score:2)
Other kinds of therapy (Score:5, Interesting)
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Do you have any references for your assertion that we are all mentally ill? Forgive me for being skeptical, I do think "that's life."
Could you explain the brain differences you allude to between healthy and unhealthy people? I have a hard time accepting your premise that, as I see it, is that most of us are in an unnatural state of being screwed up.
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I dunno. Personally, I can't think of too many people I know who AREN'T screwed up.
EULAs? (Score:5, Funny)
"Traditionally the best treatment for [PTSD] â" being raped . . . is to have the person relive the trauma using his or her imagination . . .
Now Clinical Psychologist Albert "Skip" Rizzo has developed a program that has had great success . . .
Other programs offered to treat PTSD include Virtual Airplane, Virtual Audiences, Virtual Heights, Virtual Storm, and Virtual Vietnam."
Or, for people who've been raped and need repeated exposure, AT&T have created a program called "our EULA [slashdot.org]"
treatment or prevention? (Score:2)
The next step is to use this pre-emptively as part of "training". A soldier exposed in advance to killing and extreme sensory input, will not only not need therapy later, but be more effective as his job.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
PTSD: Post Technical Support Disorder (Score:2)
The real PTSD [bbspot.com]
Miracleman: The Golden Age (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure something like this was part of the story in Miracleman: The Golden Age. The plot involved taking cold war spies and putting them in a recreation of East Germany.
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Took me 6 months... (Score:2)
SlashPoll? (Score:2)
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That's what Goatse.cx is for.
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EFT (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Boo-Hoo... (Score:5, Insightful)
The city I live in has a very large military presence, and I welcome every bit of assistance the government can provide in helping them return to society.
Think harder.
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