The Effects of the Cloud On Business, Education 68
g8orade points out two recent articles in The Economist about the rise of cloud computing. The first discusses how software-as-a-service has come to pervade online interactions. "Irving Wladawsky-Berger, a technology visionary at IBM, compares cloud computing to the Cambrian explosion some 500m years ago when the rate of evolution sped up, in part because the cell had been perfected and standardised, allowing evolution to build more complex organisms." The next article examines how the cloud will force a "trade-off between sovereignty and efficiency." Reader pjones contributes news that the Virtual Computer Lab will be supplementing more traditional computer labs at North Carolina State University, and adds, "NCSU's Virtual Computing Lab and IBM are offering the VCL code as a software 'appliance' for use in schools to link to the program. Downloads are available at ibiblio at UNC-Chapel Hill. The VCL also is partnering with Apache.org to make the software available and to allow further community participation in future development."
letter to the cloud (Score:5, Insightful)
please stop crapping up the front page of slashdot with your buzzword laden stories. I have not been this annoyed since everybody started "surfing" the "information superhighway". I hope you soon turn to "rain" and fall from the "cybersky" and die.
thank you,
umbrellaman
Re:letter to the cloud (Score:5, Insightful)
dear cloud, please stop crapping up the front page of slashdot with your buzzword laden stories. I have not been this annoyed since everybody started "surfing" the "information superhighway". I hope you soon turn to "rain" and fall from the "cybersky" and die. thank you, umbrellaman
Amen. Imagine something like BitTorrent but instead of receiving and transmitting data among many other clients, you instead receive and transmit slices of computing power AND data among many other clients. I would perhaps call that "cloud computing" in the same way that you could call BitTorrent "swarm downloading". I would liken it to the distributed SETI processing or the distributed efforts to crack various encryption schemes, except more general-purpose.
So instead of a single monolithic machine centrally running everyone's programs, something more like a Beowulf cluster centrally runs everyone's programs. As others have pointed out, this really seems to be just another iteration of the mainframe model. I share parent's wariness of anything that is so thoroughly buzzword-laden.
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I don't yet see it as cynically as you do, though maybe the cynicism is warranted.
Mainframe metaphor or not, this "cloud" concept makes the location of the mainframe less relevant, and that location might change without the user needing it. I think it also makes the location of the user less relevant, if they can access these resources from wherever they are.
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I don't yet see it as cynically as you do, though maybe the cynicism is warranted.
Mainframe metaphor or not, this "cloud" concept makes the location of the mainframe less relevant, and that location might change without the user needing it. I think it also makes the location of the user less relevant, if they can access these resources from wherever they are.
The extent of my cynicism is that I see this as one of the best ways yet invented to erode privacy with very little to show for it. Don't get me wrong though; I accept that you don't have much of an expectation of privacy when someone else is storing your data on their equipment for free and using their bandwidth to provide access to it. It is precisely because this is the nature of the arrangement that I question whether this is actually a good idea; and if so, for whom is it good?
To me, a worldwide
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As others have pointed out, this really seems to be just another iteration of the mainframe model.
But imagine it!
Mainframe access... over the internet
Network storage... over the internet
[things we already have]... over the internet
Don't you see?
It's better because you've outsourced all your responsibility... over the internet.
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Outsource! SAAS! Clouds! Virtualize!
Let's build a whole market around this. Leverage! Then we can make the next bubble and all become rich!
Oh, wait...
Visionary? (Score:5, Funny)
I'd like a job as a visionary. I once dreamt I would find a $20 bill on the street, and then several months later, I DID! Is that enough of a qualification? I've also had numerous hunches, premonitions, and vague senses of foreboding. I think with the passage of time that these powers will only increase, and within 5 to 10 years, I could be up to Nostradamus-level prognastication.
Re:Visionary? (Score:5, Funny)
If you can manage to get bitten by a radioactive spider, or otherwise exposed to unusual radiation, you're hired. Though for slashdotters, I suppose sunlight qualifies as "unusual radiation"
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Well sod him, hire me! I've got the Eyes of the Ibad and everything.
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"I'd like a job as a visionary"
What you describe is not a visionary, googles founders were visionary, visionary implies you are both capable and have a vision.
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"I'd like a job as a visionary"
What you describe is not a visionary, googles founders were visionary, visionary implies you are both capable and have a vision.
What you're describing is more like "the way it should be." The GP was talking more about how much the word is thrown around. I would tend to agree with this, with the understanding that I agree regardless of how applicable it is to this particular story.
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I'd like a job as a visionary. I once dreamt I would find a $20 bill on the street, and then several months later, I DID! Is that enough of a qualification?
No you can't have one.
You predicted/dreamt has actually happened (never mind that it's by pure chance). I believe you and therefore that is not acceptable and disqualifies you immediately. Now if you were a lying piece of scum and you'd found the $20 bill on the street then claimed that you'd predicted it earlier even though you hadn't you'd be in the ru
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I could be up to Nostradamus-level prognastication.
I assume by prog-nasti-cation that you mean you will have 100% accuracy in predicting your lack of nasti-ness? ;-)
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Only time will tell.
Please? (Score:1, Insightful)
Somebody really needs to do a good job to convince me that "cloud" is not just a new name for the mainframe. Really.
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It's a name for the server farm. Which is functionally rather similar, except for where it isn't.
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Mainframes are extinct dinosaurs.
The cloud is a completely new paradigm of gigantic primitive reptilian computing.
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Cloud apps... (Score:5, Insightful)
... really have a long way to go IMHO. The user interface for many websites and webapps is horrible, and I doubt they will ever fully replace offline apps (i.e. photoshop, 3d studio max, etc, etc), until we have a quantum leap in bandwidth + latency reduction (i.e. some kind of 'quantum' internet).
I like a lot of google apps, like Google notebook, Gmail, etc, but they are nowhere near as good as a well made offline app. Too many apps lack developmental time and focus, IMHO or lack vision to how the program could be made into a better app, with better integration. So people don't need to juggle many smaller apps which is cumbersome to get tasks done.
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(i.e. some kind of 'quantum' internet).
That sounds like some kind of 'quantum' leap...
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I was thinking about some next generation communications that would reduce latency on the internet by a massive amount, but couldn't think of any good word, hence I put 'quantum' in quotes. Since I've heard of quantum entanglement and related experiments, was just saying maybe new discoveries in natural phenomena will find ways around current internet latency. Also there is this article here:
Trapping light and saving it for later
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7314502 [npr.org]
Reaction to copyright? (Score:3, Insightful)
the cloud... (Score:2)
There's more work to do (Score:1)
Cloud computing may be the next big thing, but it'll be quite some time before cloud computing can give computing on the ground a real run for its money.
Last-mile broadband, for most smaller businesses and homes, is synonymous with highly asymmetric connections. Since many applications don't function on networks with strained upstream bandwidth, only enterprise-grade data service sare able to offer the robust speeds needed for cloud computing to excel.
And web-based applications still can't approach locall
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O please, tell me another fairy tale about Outlook's superior stability.
When I hit the DEL key during startup, it launches Outlook.
Additional Info (Score:1)
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2007/tc20071116_379585.htm [businessweek.com]
Can we all agree (Score:5, Interesting)
that no one who has thought things through wants to "rent" software? Nor does anyone who has rationally analyzed this want to have important data locked up in some format/location where it's inaccessible when the network goes down or the "cloud provider" goes under.
Aside from the regulatory hurdles that businesses would have to overcome, there's just too much risk at the moment, no matter what the SLA says. And for consumers, where bandwidth and network outages are a real issue, there's basically no compelling reason to do this.
I'm sure all the buzzword boys down in "cloud city" are hoping that they can obfuscate these issues, but in my mind, they're real show stoppers.
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Sure, but people who have thought things through may want flexible provision of hardware resources. And with the cloud, you get that. Whether you are "renting software" depends on the software being used. If you are using a service running on open source software in the cloud, what you are paying for is support services and, effectively, hardware rental, not software rental.
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there's a difference between software as a service and renting software. when you use the postal system you're not renting the postal network. you're simply using their service. and when you subscribe to broadband, you're not renting the ISP's broadband network. and there's nothing wrong with renting as a payment/service model. when you pay for whether shared or dedicated web hosting, it's rented disk space, hardware use, etc. just like when you rent a house, you keep vital possessions in it without worryin
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Wait, what?
the average user uses everyday web service like Gmail, Google, Google Calendar, flickr, digg, Wikipedia, facebook, BitTorrent, SETI@Home, etc. these are all cloud applications. they wouldn't be possible without cloud computing. even if you use Google Apps like Google Docs, if you choose an ethical company like Google
So, by your definition, everything online is a cloud application and Google is ethical? I suppose, if we wanted to be technical and in all fairness, those are applications but to consider them cloud computing stretches the term beyond what it is meant to cover methinks.
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not everything, just the popular services that use cloud computing to support tens of thousands of simultaneous users. and i didn't come up with the definition. i just use what's been accepted by the IT community:
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By that definition anything not entirely markup would be an application and while, I suppose, it'd be technically true it just seems so far adrift of the uses. Defining... Sort of like pornography. I know it when I see it. /. not so much cloud computing. Google Docs, cloud computing. Meh... Maybe I just have my own definition.
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that no one who has thought things through wants to "rent" software? ..., but in my mind, they're real show stoppers.
Um, you have your homepage at dreamhost. Which basically means you are renting a copy of apache and some disk space from them. Do you do use online banking and does the bank charge you a service fee, or do you get less interest in a moneymarket account somewhere else? Yep you are renting again.
Its a value call, what are the risks vs the benefits?
Doesn't seem to be much of a show stopper for you.
So many negative posts (Score:3, Informative)
This stuff actually looks pretty good:
http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/ [amazon.com]
It really is just another way of hosting right?
I think S3 seems to work well for some people also.
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as someone who runs a "cluster" of few dozen servers and several sites as big or bigger than slashdot, I can tell you this amazon is very very expensive
its useful when you need to scale up or scale down fast, otherwise I estimated using their calculator my monthly bills would be 5x times my current server/electricity/bandwidth/other costs combined
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I might say if you also count the workers employed for the maintenance, scaling and general upkeep of your own "cluster" it would make the price on par with what Amazon is offering.
Agreed though that the better SLA may be some time coming. We will see how it plays out.
Elastic vs. Static computing needs (Score:2)
as someone who runs a "cluster" of few dozen servers and several sites as big or bigger than slashdot, I can tell you this amazon is very very expensive
That would be because you are trying to take service that is not designed for your use case and shoehorn it into your use case. True, you could use EC2 as a web host, but that is not what it's designed for since your computing needs are static.
To get value out of the Elastic Compute Cloud, you need to have elastic computing needs. Let's say one of your super-huge websites gets a traffic spike of 3X on the first day of every month. For your data center solution, you would need to spec infrastructure to me
"The Cloud" (Score:1)
Great.
Another buzzword that idiot journalists will write pages and pages of gibberish about.
And idiot HR people will want someone having 10 years of" in depth experience" in it.
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And idiot HR people will want someone having 10 years of" in depth experience" in it.
That's why I still keep my Push Technology For Dummies [amazon.com] book on the shelf! Someday I'm going to cash in on that hot offline browsing action!
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I thought the cloud got canceled... (Score:2)
...by Depression 2.0. Either that, or the CEO of Oracle canceled it. I mean all this CDO, Derivative, dot-com crap finally blew up in a way that really matters. Don't you get i? Fads were just a fad!
Compare the presentation (Score:3, Interesting)
Not 'the cloud' again... (Score:2)
Seriously, we should rename the 'cloud computing' tag to 'horseshit'.
Woo hoo! (Score:1)
I create several clouds a day, and can't wait to sell them in the new regime. //pauses
Oh man, I'm about to create a ne
"BRAAAAAp put put"
Cloud....
Maybe I should stop eating boiled eggs. //staggers away from the effluent cloud
The only problem with this (Score:2, Insightful)
Company I work for right now shells about $250 a month for Central Desktop, plus another $12 per mailbox for 26 people. Oh and add about $14 per Blackberry for about 8 people. Adds up to $674 a month, or $8,088 a year.
I frequently make the case that a little shoebox server could run Linux with Qmail and Apache on it and we could get the whole kit and kaboodle for lots less than $8K a year.
I rather have my data... (Score:1)
...come to me than fetching it through browser all the time. It's nice to have redundancy through web clients if anything breaks down locally but I to me feels cloud computing more clunky and unproductive than local.
Interesting new definitions of those words (Score:2)
The writer does have some radically new definitions of a few terms. Thus, calling either a biological cell or cloud computing "efficient" is totally bizarre, unless you are using the term in a way that's different from any dictionary definition. Biologists would just laugh a the idea. Then they'd probably go into either a list of all the known inefficiencies in the basic biochemistry, or they'd try to explain that the evolutionary process doesn't care much about efficiency. All that matters is relative
Next step to manna (Score:2)
The first thing about these articles is to realize that business and government are big proponents. That's why one article about balancing convenience vs. privacy is important. RMS knows this.
That's why a recent NYTimes article about the quants' influence on the financial meltdown quoted Ted Kazcinsky sp? and why an article a few years ago called Why the Future Doesn't Need Us did too.
The second thing to realize is so are consumers of Google and the iPhone.
So all of the kvetching about the use of the term "