Chinese Automaker Unveils First Electric Car 341
JuliusSu writes "A Chinese auto manufacturer, BYD, is introducing today the country's first electric car, a plug-in hybrid vehicle. It plans to sell at least 10,000 cars in 2009 for a price of less than $22,000. This put the company ahead of schedule against other entrants to this market, such as Toyota, due to release a similar car in late 2009; and GM, whose Chevy Volt will be launched in late 2010. The company is best known for making cellphone batteries, and hopes its expertise in ferrous battery technology will allow it to leapfrog established car manufacturers."
quality (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
This should be good, lol.
If we're lucky. If they can make an affordable, practical, electric car, more power to them, and if they really sell 10,000 next year, I guess we'll find out.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Let's see. From the article, it'll cost $22000, have a range of 62 miles, and be available outside China in 2011.
This doesn't look like it'll meet your expectations.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From the article, it'll cost $22000, have a range of 62 miles, and be available outside China in 2011.
It's a plug in hybrid; the 62 mile range is on batteries alone, then the gas engine can kick in. It's a long way from being good with batteries to making a good car, though.
Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
About the only thing that is truely american is the arrogance.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but don't underestimate the challenges involved in actually assembling a good-looking car that's safe and doesn't break.
Remember the Yugo? Remember how Hyundai was (until recently, anyway)? Hell, (if you're old enough) remember how the Japanese cars once were?
BYD has shown they know how to build laptop batteries. They may be able to scale it up to automobile level (although this is not trivial).
However, they have years to go before they are capable of building automobiles that can compete on safety, comfort and reliability against existing auto makers. They may get there eventually, if they survive that long (Hyundai did, Yugo didn't); however, it's definitely not going to be with their first car. This has nothing to do with being Chinese, and everything to do with being new to market. I wouldn't trust Tesla's first car either, although charging $100K each may give Tesla an advantage in that it can afford to do more over-engineering and cherry-pick good parts than BYD can at its price segment.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but don't underestimate the challenges involved in actually assembling a good-looking car that's safe and doesn't break.
Remember the Yugo? Remember how Hyundai was (until recently, anyway)?
Remember Chevy? Remember Ford?
Yeah.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing I have learned is never under estimate the Chinese, this is a country that has had a incredible GDP since the days of the silk road. One could have said the same about IBM and the computer. we all know how that went. It's not hard to reverse engineer and improve upon an existing design. The only hard part is consumer confidence and brand recognition. US Automaker have done such a good job of killing consumer confidence that most Americans no longer care where it's made cept the fact of the economy
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
It's packed with Chinese-made parts that have to adhere to American safety regulations.
Is this batch of 10,000 going to do the same?
It's a serious question, btw. At $22k a pop this could very well be the case.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually the Pinto incident with the exploding gas tanks turned on the fact that they did know that the design would result in a certain number of deaths, but that it would be cheaper to pay off the resultant law suits than it would be to implement the fix (which involved an $11 part, if memory serves). Of course, the public found out, and damages awards started skyrocketing, thanks to the punitives, so it looks like they mis-calculated, there.
So yes, I do think American car companies would design and sell
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't bel
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Even the "good" Japanese companies have problems.
About 5 years ago Toyota built an engine that died after only 30,000 miles due to overheating turning the oil to sludge. Initially Toyota blamed their customers but after the U.S. Consumer Protection Agency threatened to file a lawsuit, Toyota had a sudden change of heart and decided to honor the engine warranty.
Honda had a problem with their early-model Insight having dead batteries. Again, Honda refused to fix the problem and blame the customer, but now
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
That high quality American car is packed to the gunnels with Chinese made parts, including engines.
About the only thing that is truely american is the arrogance.
Arrogance? You obviously don't know much about chinese cars. It doesn't matter where the parts are made, but american cars aren't ENGINEERED in china. So far all the chinese cars that have been engineered in china have been terrible. I remember one example that looked like any other common car in the US or elsewhere, but it did so poorly in crash testing it couldn't even manage ONE STAR. It was a deathtrap.
Don't call people arrogant without checking your own ignorance. I'm not saying the car can't be good, but given what has come out of china so far, people have a right to be skeptical.
-Taylor
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Informative)
Deathtrap? I think after watching these videos, most people will agree you are being a bit generous.
http://www.break.com/index/failed-chinese-crash-test.html [break.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVwmuQqN46g [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEeqxq7EtQU [youtube.com]
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/22/brilliance-bs6s-adac-crash-test-is-anything-but/ [autoblog.com]
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chinese-sedan-flunks-german-crash-test-with-video.html [leftlanenews.com]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
...yeah, and a company like them never did anything like take an entire
factory and sell it to some 3rd world country so that they could make
their own knockoffs...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They said the same thing when the Japanese started making cars... I have no doubt that Chinese companies could engineer cars to meet US/European safety regulations, but at the moment they mainly sell to their domestic less-regulated market, so they save money by having lower engineering standards. If there's money to be made by building to higher standards and exporting to the rest of the world, then they will do it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They said the same thing when the Japanese started making cars... I have no doubt that Chinese companies could engineer cars to meet US/European safety regulations, but at the moment they mainly sell to their domestic less-regulated market, so they save money by having lower engineering standards. If there's money to be made by building to higher standards and exporting to the rest of the world, then they will do it.
Oh of course. I would never say that a people COULDN'T do it, just that so far they've very much not been making good cars, so new ones should always be looked at with a critical eye. I was mostly correcting the guy who called people arrogant for assuming they'll be crap, when actually it's a pretty reasonable assumption.
-Taylor
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Funny)
About the only thing that is truely american is the arrogance.
Best in class baby! USA! USA!
...whoops, the steering wheel on my Pontiac caught on fire. [*]
[*] BTW, this actually happened to me on a 5 year old
1986 Pontiac Grand Prix while I was driving it.
I now drive a Toyota.
Re: (Score:2)
> ...whoops, the steering wheel on my Pontiac caught on fire. [*]
>[*] BTW, this actually happened to me on a 5 year old
>1986 Pontiac Grand Prix while I was driving it.
Well that's quite an unfortunate incident. Have you ever figured out what caused it? Perhaps there's been a recall for this issue, like with the whole heated washer fluid fire thing.
> I now drive a Toyota.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
I was told wiring in the column. The dealer fixed it for free even though the warranty had expired. IIRC they referred to it as an 'after warranty adjustment'. (and I made a typo, it was a 1989 Grand Prix not 1986)
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Toyota trucks are made in San Antonio, TX.
We were all excited when they came here. There were lines for miles for people applying.
It was to be THE place to work.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Interesting)
That explains why a fair number of my graduating ME class went to work for Toyota in the states. They still engineer stuff in Detroit. Industrial Engineers still work in Alabama, TN, Indiana, etc. And those Engineering jobs aren't in China or India. Toyota, Honda, etc are in Japan. VW, BMW, Porsche, etc are in Germany.
I don't get where ./ers are convinced that India and China are full of brilliant engineers that are going to take all of our jobs. There's an Indian at work that came over from India. If you bring this subject up to him he'll explain to you that all the jobs we 'outsource' are just a step above what we give interns to do. Running electrical lines in ProE, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Thats why I have a "German" car .... full of Mexican made parts!
Damn you Volkswagen!
Re: (Score:2)
Ford/GM/Chrysler engines are NOT made in China, but in the USA/Canada/Mexico. In fact very little is made in China.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yea I can picture it now!
"BDY has recalled all 10,000 electric cars after a motorist was burned to death when his car battery exploded"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Better yet,
wait until (if it's successful) they make plants in the US, built exclusively in the US under a US subsidiary, but people complain that we're fueling china.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And the Corvair and Pinto were less of a death trap?
The Pinto was a deathtrap, sure, but not the Corvair. Ralph Nader is a grandstanding dickhead who basically launched his career on false accusations and shoddy methodology in Unsafe at Any Speed. After a 2 year investigation, the NHTSA determined that there wasn't any problem at all with the Corvair. Despite what Ralph Nader thought the law should have been, the fact remains that there was not and is not a requirement that a car fail gracefully when negligently driven beyond its capabilities. GM changed the
Re: (Score:2)
No doubt. Don't lick the paint!
People laughed about Japanese cars, too. (Score:5, Interesting)
When the first Japanese cars showed up in Europe in the 1970s, they were cheap but had a terrible reputation. That has changed. Today they are on the same quality level (and almost as expensive) as European cars. Toyota even ruled the reliability/breakdown statistics for years, only recently some European models have retaken the lead.
I expect that the same will happen with the Chinese cars. They may have not much experience in car making now, but 10 years from now things can look different.
Re:People laughed about Japanese cars, too. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:People laughed about Japanese cars, too. (Score:4, Insightful)
Or there's the fourth, American kind: the highly paid, unskilled factory worker.
Re: (Score:2)
My '05 Civic was!
I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
Vaporware. Woo Hoo Hoo.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:5, Insightful)
Now your comment implies that I am somehow responsible for the current financial crisis either because I make speculative investments or take out/issue bad loans, perhaps based on what Warren Buffet does. Those implications aren't true, nor do they have any bearing on the comment I made. So, I can only assume you're trolling for easy mod points.
You should stop because it only makes you look like an idiot.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:5, Informative)
Your entire proof that Buffet has any interest in this venture is a story on Slashdot. That makes you the idiot.
Curiously, I do not share your sentiment about the other poster.
I am, however, fairly confident that you are an imbecile. [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
I thought the financial problems were due to folks being idiots with their money, not being risky with it. I think there's a difference between 'Let's see how this turns out' and 'All aboard the bubble!'
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-sedan [zapworld.com]
For the fully electric version.
It's been available in the states for 2 years now.
Charging an electric car (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a little OT but I figure someone here might know. With so many electric cars finally coming to market I thought it would be smart to plan ahead even if I'm not ready to take the leap yet...
So, I'm in the process of a remodel and have an easy opportunity to install a high-amperage electric circuit to some location in the garage. Is there any emerging standard for charging electric cars that would dictate the ideal location to put the outlet? I.e. in front of the car, driver side, passenger side, what height from ground, etc. Also amperage, type of plug etc would be good to anticipate, although initially I'd just have an empty conduit running there from the load center.
Re:Charging an electric car (Score:5, Insightful)
My understanding is that most (all?) of these plugin hybrids are being designed to fit a standard household electrical socket. I would think if you have a standard GFI outlet in your garage (and I think just about everyone does) you should be fine. Honestly, I don't see how these things would take off if they required rewiring your house just to be able to recharge them.
Re:Charging an electric car (Score:4, Informative)
Last I had heard they were tiered. Standard 110v was like 12 hour recharge, 220v (like water heater or dryer) was like 4 hour and a nonstandard 440v could do in 1-2 hours.
Re: (Score:2)
A standard outlet delivers at most enough power to run a vacuum cleaner. At that rate, you're going to be recharging for something on the order of one hour for each mile driven. Maybe they can charge from a regular outlet in case of emergency, but that would not be suitable for daily recharging.
Re: (Score:2)
A standard outlet delivers at most enough power to run a vacuum cleaner. At that rate, you're going to be recharging for something on the order of one hour for each mile driven. Maybe they can charge from a regular outlet in case of emergency, but that would not be suitable for daily recharging.
Most of the world runs on 220-250V. I think the US made a bad guess with 110V. It is too expensive to deliver high current at low voltage.
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the world runs on 220-250V. I think the US made a bad guess with 110V. It is too expensive to deliver high current at low voltage.
Not a bad guess but a conscious choice. Split-phase systems like we have in the US allow for a self-balancing load to a neutral return split between two lower voltage conductors. The lower voltage also results in a less dangerous ground-fault than 220V single-wire systems when used for small appliances while still providing 220V (if needed) by attaching a load between the two phases directly.
So really, the US chose safety and flexibility at the cost of requiring more copper, rather than going with the mor
Re: (Score:2)
a 20 amp outlet at 120V is capable of putting out over 3 horsepower. So in ten hours could put out the power to run fully loaded 30 horsepower motor one hour.
Re: (Score:2)
...but that would not be suitable for daily recharging.
Surely that depends entirely upon how far you drive and how much time you spend at a place with a socket each day. For some people, the specs of the Tesla would be more than enough. It also depends on if you have another vehicle to use, and if you want to use it to go on long trips in etc.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, just like Top Gear's review of the Tesla yesterday.
Brilliant.
What, 14 hours to recharge? 55 mile range (instead of the advertised 200+).
Then they looked at Honda's hydrogen/electric car and decided that was the future. Not home-charged electric vehicles that can't recharge in under half a day. You certainly need something a lot better than 13A @ 230V - maybe a 200A circuit would help things. 400A in 110V countries ...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
55 mile range (instead of the advertised 200+).
I think you will find the 200 mile range, like every other range spec, is dependent on your driving style. Thrashing any car, petrol or electric, consumes much more than when driving normally. Tesla were not being deceiving at all, from what I've read.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Do what they do for gasoline pumps - put it up high on one side, and get a long enough cord to connect it. If you want maximum flexibility, why not connect it to the ceiling above the center of the car (maybe with a small boom to assist with cable management)? That will keep it out of your way while walking around the vehicle, yet still make it visually obvious whenever it is plugged in.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If possible, run two.... one near where drivers side fuel door would be and one where passengers side would be.... or in a 2 car garage that has a post in the center, run it to the post... then you can do drivers side of the righthand stall and passengers side of the lefthand stall.
I would run 50 amp 220 and 50 amp 110.
Worst case, if you're wrong, at least you'll have power there that you could use to plug in an emergency backup generator, etc.. and shut off the main breaker, and backfeed from your high amp
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Bye, bye GM :) (Score:5, Insightful)
GM killed electric trolley public transportation on the East Coast decades ago, pushing for city buses made by GMC that used internal combustion. The VOLT was promoted using jazzy images of impressive body lines that promoted interest, only to release a breadbox as the final design. GM doesn't want the VOLT to succeed, and now with their imminent demise, they may get their wish.
BYD will be in NA in short time, and more like them will follow. I wish them best of luck.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
[The VOLT was promoted using jazzy images of impressive body lines that promoted interest, only to release a breadbox as the final design. GM doesn't want the VOLT to succeed...]
Here we go again...
The original design was so un-aerodynamic that Bob Lutz said it was almost better if they put the car in the wind tunnel backward. That's why it was changed.
Re: (Score:2)
...The VOLT was promoted using jazzy images of impressive body lines that promoted interest, only to release a breadbox as the final design. GM doesn't want the VOLT to succeed...
I believe you.
General Motors is very competent in the area of marketing memes. They know exactly what impression a name will have on the buying public. The very name VOLT in upper case invokes the image of a brush against an electrified fence, not a family-friendly econo people carrier.
This is a bit more subtle, however, than there previous attempt at not selling a car the public demands -- the Chevy Impact. As me friends might say, "subtle as a 'frown brick".
Re: (Score:2)
Dobby must be punished.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope. GM gambled pretty much everything on Volt's success: http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/15/gm-plans-to-build-a-strong-hybrid-small-vehicle-but-will-spend-twice-as-much-developing-e-flex-cars/ [gm-volt.com]
E-Flex cars are now their top priority in funding. Also, IMO the 'generic' design for Volts is a plus. GM tells us Volts are not going to be exotic items, but rather a good old boring automobile which will JustWork(tm).
Also, I don't expect much success with the first models. They are probably going to explode/burn/crash t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
the volt was originally developed in germany by opel anyway.
Which is it? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Price
Re:Which is it? (Score:4, Informative)
It's not really new, but it's better than all electric like the Tesla. It may be fast, but as it has been shown in the latest episode of Top Gear, it has a major drawback, recharging time.
Seeing the hydrogen-powered Honda FCX Clarity in that same episode showed how it can be done practically. Fill up like a gasoline car, be done in two minutes and drive on.
For those that haven't seen it, info and torrent link here [finalgear.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
AFAIK it is the first hybrid car using lithium iron-phosphate batteries. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_F3DM [wikipedia.org].
This may help them on price/performance, because the raw materials for the batteries are relatively cheap. It is also a good real life test of large batteries of this type. The reliability statistics for this car should give us a good idea of how rugged the new battery tech really is.
Gravity powered car (Score:2, Funny)
All you have to do is make the back wheels bigger than the front and you are always going down hill. This should improve mileage by quite a bit but be careful, if the size ratio gets too big it is almost impossible to stop.
Warning (Score:3, Funny)
I drove one of these but two hours later I felt hungry again and had to drive it some more.
What Does It Look Like? (Score:2)
I RTFA, no images, uhmmmmm, I see. I hope that BYD can make the car to California specifications so that a down trodden masses like myself could buy one, AND drive it to work. This combined with a Solar Cell Roof could save me some large coin.
good luck getting support (Score:4, Insightful)
A big challenge to any new player getting into the electro-auto market is dealer support. Where is someone supposed to get parts for this thing or a Tesla? Sure, an electric vehicle design should require less maintenance, but even components will need to be replaced due to accidents and road wear.
I've heard people say the auto bailout money should go to a start-up like Tesla. The problem with completely abandoning the American automakers and putting public funds behind a startup is that the big three already have huge infrastructure in place. They already understand production. Bless the hearts of those Tesla idealists, but they're going to spend a BUNCH of money developing dealerships, parts distribution, training mechanics & sales people. And until their production numbers get big, the deals they'll cut with suppliers won't be as profitable as the ones Ford/GM/Chrysler make with their suppliers thanks to the economies of scale they're working in.
I'm not saying there isn't a place for smaller companies to come in and fill a niche demand. But now isn't the time to abandon the American auto companies and watch them perish. If that happens, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai will assist in a huge transfer of wealth overseas.
Seth
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
Changing wires? Replacing batteries? How about we make the Big Three assist the nimbler domestic startups.
They've shown that their size has been a liability when it comes to change.
If they want public funds, they should be serving the best interests of the public - and, increasingly that means GOING green, not play-acting green.
Re:good luck getting support (Score:5, Informative)
What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
Quite a bit, if you think about it:
1) Educating and qualifying mechanics to work on the car. Your average Joe at the gas station isn't going to be able to service this thing right off the bat, nor will he be able to open the hood and figure it out after a few minutes' inspection. At least for the first two or three years this car is on the market, you'll be forced to rely on dealer service, simply because there won't be trained mechanics anywhere else. And if you break down someplace where there isn't a dealer handy, you're hosed. A hobbyist owner might be able to repair the car, to a greater or lesser extent, but those repairs might void the warranty, or in some states may disqualify the car from street service entirely.
2) Availability of parts. There is lots and lots more that goes into an electric car, or indeed any car, besides a few hundred feet of wire, an electric motor and a few batteries. If your alternator dies, if you have to replace a transmission or some other drivetrain component, if your windshield cracks, all of those require many more parts to complete beyond the obvious part that's malfunctioning. The problem is compounded if you have multiple systems damaged at once, as in the context of an accident. You'll have to have some mechanism in place to get those parts from their Chinese manufacturers to a U.S. dealer service department, quickly and efficiently. (This is harder than it sounds; as a personal example, I can confirm that for a certain well-known German luxury manufacturer, a replacement front bumper fascia took three weeks to ship from Stuttgart, where replacing the same part on an American vehicle took two days.)
On a related note, you also have to worry about the general lack of infrastructure. Right or wrong, as it stands right now the entire transportation infrastructure in the US is set up to deal with internal combustion vehicles. Changing over to an electric infrastructure is going to take time, at least two or three years and probably more like five or seven, during which time the drivers of electric vehicles are going to be at a major disadvantage. You won't be able to charge most places, won't be able to get service most places, might not be able to drive on freeways or other limited access roads (at least here, freeways are restricted to internal combustion vehicles with engines greater than 125 CC displacement, which can't be powered farm equipment, and must be able to maintain a minimum speed of 55 MPH). Those restrictions might be enough to put people off electrics entirely, or at the very least slow their adoption. It'd be a damned shame if that happened, but it's a very real risk. In the meanwhile, everyone who bought these electric cars will be in the lurch, and if the manufacturer folds, the vehicles will be little more than hobby pieces.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
Quite a bit, if you think about it:
1) Educating and qualifying mechanics to work on the car. Your average Joe at the gas station isn't going to be able to service this thing right off the bat, nor will he be able to open the hood and figure it out after a few minutes' inspection. At least for the first two or three years this car is on the market, you'll be forced to rely on dealer service, simply because there won't be trained mechanics anywhere else. And if you break down someplace where there isn't a dealer handy, you're hosed.
EVs are primarily going to be used for commuting, so I imagine most people aren't going to be that far from the dealer where they bought the car.
2) Availability of parts. There is lots and lots more that goes into an electric car, or indeed any car, besides a few hundred feet of wire, an electric motor and a few batteries. If your alternator dies, if you have to replace a transmission or some other drivetrain component, if your windshield cracks, all of those require many more parts to complete beyond the obvious part that's malfunctioning. The problem is compounded if you have multiple systems damaged at once, as in the context of an accident. You'll have to have some mechanism in place to get those parts from their Chinese manufacturers to a U.S. dealer service department, quickly and efficiently. (This is harder than it sounds; as a personal example, I can confirm that for a certain well-known German luxury manufacturer, a replacement front bumper fascia took three weeks to ship from Stuttgart, where replacing the same part on an American vehicle took two days.)
Yet people still buy Germany luxury cars, despite this problem.
On a related note, you also have to worry about the general lack of infrastructure. Right or wrong, as it stands right now the entire transportation infrastructure in the US is set up to deal with internal combustion vehicles. Changing over to an electric infrastructure is going to take time, at least two or three years and probably more like five or seven, during which time the drivers of electric vehicles are going to be at a major disadvantage. You won't be able to charge most places, won't be able to get service most places, might not be able to drive on freeways or other limited access roads (at least here, freeways are restricted to internal combustion vehicles with engines greater than 125 CC displacement, which can't be powered farm equipment, and must be able to maintain a minimum speed of 55 MPH). Those restrictions might be enough to put people off electrics entirely, or at the very least slow their adoption. It'd be a damned shame if that happened, but it's a very real risk. In the meanwhile, everyone who bought these electric cars will be in the lurch, and if the manufacturer folds, the vehicles will be little more than hobby pieces.
Like I said before, people are using their cars 99% for commuting, most likely with 50 miles from their home, round trip. You recharge at home at night. No need to build charging stations or anything like that. Even if they were - the infrastructure is already there. Every where you can find a gas st
Tesla is a niche product (Score:2)
You're right. I'd love a Tesla, but spending over $100K on a small 2-seater with limited range and no gas backup is not an option for me. Nor is it for most people. It's basically a semi hand-built car with all of the non-electric/electronic engineering done by Lotus. (It's 90% an Elise).
So yeah, they don't know shit about car engineering, let alone volume production.
Still want want though...
As for the Chinese car, good luck with the crash test.
economies (Score:2, Interesting)
no Chinese designed car passes US standards yet (Score:2)
What's wrong with you people? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have yet to see a serious, insightful post about this story. A little googling turned up pics and data although I confess that I don't know what
16 kwh / 100 KM works out to in MPG.
The pictures I saw of the car look pretty nice. Congrats to the Chinese - if this turns out to be a quality vehicle, it may force the Big Three stragglers to dump some of their guzzlers and give
us clean, efficient vehicles we can depend on
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
That puts this car at about 124 mpg.
Re: (Score:2)
Does it kill you in a 40mph crash like the rest of the Chinese made cars do?
Re: (Score:2)
Taco and Hemos haven't commented since Idle was announced, so if somebody has any idea as to what this is please - do tell.
Re: (Score:2)
This troll has been used and abused. Changing the main character to Obama does not show any originality. Trolling is an art form when done properly and people will react to wit and originality. This is obviously an amateurish lame attempt.
If you wish to research proper trolling, I suggest that you browse to: http://www.gnaa.us/ [www.gnaa.us] and see how it's done.
Please refrain from further posts until you build up your troll skill level.
Re:Anyone can make an electric car (Score:5, Interesting)
I avoid any products made in China now because I can't trust them anymore. How much food is recalled and childrens toys? Do you want to be in an accident in one of these things and then find out that to cut costs, they used cheap air-bags?
Another reason to avoid Chinese goods (if their human rights record isn't good enough) is that their industry is ecologically harmful. Chinese industry have little incentive not to polute the environment in some of the most egregious ways.
yeah (Score:2)
one thing they do that is ecologically harmful is that they make ELECTRIC CARS
Re:Anyone can make an electric car (Score:5, Funny)
No, it doesn't exist yet.
Is it made of Melamine like all their food?
You're planning on eating the thing? Interesting.
I avoid any products made in China now because I can't trust them anymore.
Don't eat random products made anywhere.
How much food is recalled and childrens toys?
Boy, you're really hungry, aren't you? Shouldn't eat toys.
Do you want to be in an accident in one of these things and then find out that to cut costs, they used cheap air-bags?
No, I don't want to be in an accident in anything small. I want to be in an accident in my 3/4 ton 4WD pickup.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I want to be in an accident in my 3/4 ton 4WD pickup.
I, on the other hand, would rather avoid an accident entirely by being in a smaller car with a lower center of gravity and that has more maneuverability than a beached whale.
Re: (Score:2)
I am thrilled about BYD's F3DM, I think it's the kind of car the world, especially the US needs.
That said, I think your attack on the grandparent post is slightly (not completely) unjust. Give him/her some credit: Chinese food is, undoubtedly, a health hazard. China is a huge country, with lots of people and a disproportionate amount of corruption. Very weak to non-existent consumer protection. And a LONG history of contaminated, toxic food. If you concentrate only on the melamine stories of late, you miss
Re: (Score:2)
You forgot to include a car analogy.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean a metal hydride powered car..
Re: (Score:2)
Not quite. Pick a powertrain vendor instead of a tire vendor and you've got an appropriate analogy.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Everyone seems to forget or willfully ignore that Toyota also filed similar lawsuits against states trying to impose stricter emission guidelines.
Re: I have to wonder (Score:4, Interesting)
Part of the problem is that it would be rather expensive to engineer a car to meet 50 different emission standards. Nobody, except the state's showing their control, wants that.
So why not make it meet the strictest standards? Partly because it just keeps pushing the costs higher for stuff nobody needs in the other 49 states. There is also nothing that suggests there would be one "strictest" standard.
California was allowed to set requirements that no other state had for quite a while. In the beginning it required reworking and adjusting a car that was imported into California before it could be sold there. So you would see cars selling for $3,000 to $5,000 higher in California. Should you be so silly as to buy a car in Arizona when you were a California resident you would be faced with paying that extra amount to have the car modified before it could be licensed. So in a way, we have tried this already and it was a disaster. It might have helped out air quality in California or it might not have. Nobody really knows.
I'd say the biggest problem would be conflicting requirements between states. If this was allowed, and so far the Federal Government hasn't made it clear that such state level regulation would never be allowed, you would have a different set of hardware for each state for each car. Sure, California could have their regulations but there would be nothing to prevent Nevada from having different and mutually exclusive requirements.
The only sensible way is to have one Federal standard. It works for car owners, it works for car manufacturers and it can work for everyone else as well. The problem seems to be enacting some realistic legislation at the Federal level.
Also, it isn't going to help if some states are allowed to regulate batteries for electric and hybrid cars. Not long ago California prevented sales of cars with lots and lots of lead-acid batteries in them because of the hazards of both lead and acid. I do not know what the state of things are today, but there are plenty of people doing electric car conversions using lead-acid batteries. I suspect it is not legal to buy, sell, modify or license such a car today in California. There is no reason to think that other states will be any more forgiving about toxic pollutants if each state is allowed to pass their own regulations.
The lawsuits go both ways, two years ago... (Score:2)
"California's attorney general has sued the six largest U.S. and Japanese automakers for damages related to greenhouse gas emissions.
The federal lawsuit alleged that emissions from their vehicles have harmed Californians' health, damaged the environment and cost the state millions of dollars to combat their effects. The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Oakland, names Chrysler Motors Corp., General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor North America, Honda North America and Nissan North America.
Re: Europe (Score:2)
Here it is more of a lobby game. As a European I'm not aware of any large lawsuits of that kind going on, but the car makers certainly try to create political pressure against stricter emission standards. And they tend to be successful in influencing their governments, who then try to change EU policy in the sense of "their" companies.
In particular, German car makers who have a of large models in their fleet try to kill the planned emission limit of 120g CO2/km.
Re: (Score:2)
1) They are testing the battery, tuning software, preparing production lines for mass production (i.e. hundreds of thousands of cars, not 100 or 10000). It's not a fast process.
2) Smaller company won't have much capacity for large-scale projects.