Is It Windows 7, Or KDE 4? 559
An anonymous reader writes "Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, ZDNet takes to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration. The results are surprising." Or maybe they're not surprising at all.
not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
9/10 people polled also couldn't tell the difference between rabbit shit and deer shit.
And nine out of ten couldn't tell the difference between your statistics and bullshit.
That said it is a useful comparison.
Someone who is just walking in the woods probably cannot tell rabbit shit from deer shit. A tracker or someone dependent on hunting for food certainly will.
Someone who just needs to run a browser and word processor probably can't tell Windows 7 from KDE. Someone who needs to configure and administrate systems for an organisation certainly will.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
9/10 people polled also couldn't tell the difference between rabbit shit and deer shit.
And nine out of ten couldn't tell the difference between your statistics and bullshit.
That said it is a useful comparison.
Someone who is just walking in the woods probably cannot tell rabbit shit from deer shit. A tracker or someone dependent on hunting for food certainly will.
Someone who just needs to run a browser and word processor probably can't tell Windows 7 from KDE. Someone who needs to configure and administrate systems for an organisation certainly will.
Also 9/10 enjoys group rapes
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone who just needs to run a browser and word processor probably can't tell Windows 7 from KDE. Someone who needs to configure and administrate systems for an organisation certainly will.
True.
I actually had a long argument with my SO about Linux vs. Windows issue. My main point was this: whenever she experiences any trouble she still complains to me, and for me it is much easier to deal with Linux. So she gave it a try and it all went OK to her own surprise, she had no troubles using FF, Gimp and Pidgin.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
I have the opposite problem. My wife won't touch linux but still wants to use my PC.
Then she gripes that it doesn't "automatically log in" or gives me the "we should share passwords".
I say to her, "Do you know shit about Linux?" "no" "THEN YOU DON'T NEED MY PASSWORD FOR SHIT".
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude she just wants your password to check your email and make sure you don't have anyone on the side :)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Meh
I linked my porn stash to a directory called .secret in my girlfriend's home dir.
She thinks she's clever for having found it, and gets some great ideas from the porn. It's a win-win.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Or it would be, if you had a girlfriend.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Or it would be, if you had a girlfriend.
#include <stdyourmom>
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Careful, sledgehammers need no passwords.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Nah, the dead can't talk.
You know anything about putting my honda back together?
Set her up on another VT... (Score:5, Interesting)
I set up my wife on my PC on another virtual terminal - (ctl-alt-F8), it automatically logs her in on boot-up, and whenever she needs "her" stuff, it's all there for her. With all her own passwords. Plus, my "stuff" remains untouched - so whether I'm downloading torrents, or in the middle of composing an email, wp, graphic, presentation...it's all still there when she's done (ctl-alt-F7, back to me)
Simple.
cheers,
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It only works in XP if you aren't connected to a domain, otherwise you get a Windows 2000 style login.
Re:not surprising (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, this is a point of contention between me and my wife... Ocassionally, when Im on the computer she wants to check her hotmail email or stuff, and becomes angry when I tell her she cannot login into Pidgin unless she does it from her own user account.
"But MSN in Windows allows you to sign out and sign in again with a different username!" She says
"Yeah, but UNIX has a different philosophy, every user should have its own desktop and its own settings!"
"Why? You and all your Linux friends are a bunch of paranoid idiots! What's the point of so many passwords? Who do you think is going to try to hack you?"
"[sigh] You can then reboot into windows when I'm done with this..."
Re:not surprising (Score:4, Funny)
"I am not married" negates your comment. Try that when you are married :)
Re:not surprising (Score:4, Informative)
Then just give her "a" password, not "that" passord. It's pretty easy to create a user and not make them show up in the login screen ;)
Or just make a TrueCrypt File called "corruptedVideo.mpg" and put all "that" stuff in there.
If there's one thing I've learned from women, it's that the only way to win a fight is to make her think SHE won!
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
This is why I have no problem with my GF running windows. If it breaks, I don't know what to do with it anyway, so it's not my problem.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
References to Windows are one of the only times I see geeks proudly proclaiming their ignorance....It's just an OS by a company, not some insane enemy to be avoided at all cost =/
Hence "itsatrap" on every article about Microsoft supposed altruism.
They are the enemy, they declared it many, many times! The everyone-not-Windows crowd might not have a problem with Microsoft (and therefor Windows) If they didn't have so much history of UI/feature theft, assimilation of over a hundred of corporations, investing in corporations like SCO to assault the public image of Linux, claiming Open Source is dangerous and will destroy computing... Jesus, it's like a monkey throwing shit at you. You know the monkey's just doing what it does but you'll never in your right mind appreciate it.
Actually, let me make a much more concise attempt at responding to your comment.
References to Windows are one of the only times I see geeks proudly proclaiming their ignorance....It's just an OS by a company, not some insane enemy to be avoided at all cost =/
THE FUCK IT AIN'T.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife does digital scrapbooking. She was using a cheapo scrapbooking app, but started to find it too limiting. She started to insist on a purchase of Photoshop, which I resisted. So she got the free trial version, played with it for 30 days and loved it. I asked her to give gimp the same 30 days, and she did. We never did make that Photoshop purchase - she has managed to find gimp tutorials online and even a dead-tree book that has all sorts of hints, tips, and ideas for gimp. Now she does all her scrapbooking in gimp. Maybe I'll be able to sneak a switch over to Gentoo from XP on her box now. :-)
She's no techie, she's artistic. (NOT AUtistic, ARtistic.) Took a bit to get over the learning curve to the point where she was productive, but it wasn't terribly worse than the learning curve for Photoshop.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
Same experience here with The Gimp. As long as SO hasn't become entrenched in using a particular non-free application, she grasps new free apps easily. I hadn't expected her to get used to the gimp (as every gimp article on /. might have you think) as quickly as she did. Perhaps not being English helps in this case :)
Getting her switched from Microsoft Office however is a different story. Having used it for years, she was wary about OOo and balked about not being able to find various options easily.
It goes to show that moving users from what they are comfortable with is a difficult process. If the new app doesn't have a clear win (Firefox + AdBlock for instance) users won't switch easily. But if the user is new to the domain, they will try it with an open mind and learn quickly.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, are you saying that your wife does NOT live in her own little world AND effectively communicates her wants/needs? I'm not sure you appreciate the full magnitude of your discovery, sir. Please.. go on.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't confuse the fact that women remember what shoes another woman was wearing 3 years ago in March with some sort of all-encompassing perception of reality, because it's not. And seriously, when's the last time a woman ever told you exactly what she really wanted or needed? The only time that happens is right before or after a fight/breakup, because they're so upset that you didn't know to begin with. "You should have known I wanted you to vacuum upstairs because I left the vacuum cleaner sitting in the middle of the floor!"
My bad.. I just thought you left the vacuum out.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Gimp isn't hard. All it takes is a try.
What I mean is, you actually have try and look around the menus, get messy, try things.
I know, people don't like to learn. Well, then they shouldn't bitch when they don't know how to do something new, now should they?
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure that most people will see the difference when trying to install a game, sync their PDA (with the instruction on their constructor webpage not matching what they see on their screen) or try to open the crappy humor Powerpoint filling their mailboxes. No need to be a admin to see a subtle difference between linux and windows if you don't have a diligent kid/friend that take care of every single installation problem for you.
This video reminds me of all those "infomercial" showing the latest innovation in carpet cleaning or kitchen robot ...
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mojave_Experiment#Reception [wikipedia.org]
"Participants weren't asked to work with peripheral devices (such as printers or scanners), nor were they asked about compatibility with older software or hardware.[4] Participants did not have an opportunity to try the software themselves[2], but were only demonstrated certain features by a salesman."
So while calling it Mojave prevented the bad hype from geeks, they still showed it to people in a very limited capacity that didn't actually show any of the things that were being criticized. Mojave proved very little, and this video is sort of analogous to that.
With as much certainty as the Mojave Experiment provided us with, this video demonstrates that Linux and KDE are indeed desktop ready and 100% compatible With windows. It's only when you tell users that it's not Windows that they start believing the M£ propaganda and claim that all of a sudden they can't run GTA4.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
that's because 9 out of 10 statistics are made up 73% of the time.
Re:not surprising (Score:4, Funny)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
Bucking for some informative karma I've tracked down some visual aids for our comparison:
Windows 7 [redbubble.net]
KDE 4 [photobucket.com]
Your welcome.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Funny)
I consider myself fairly computer literate and I can't tell the difference between Windows Vista and Windows Vista.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it would be more accurate to say that "people, outside their area of expertise, are generally clueless"
I consider myself somewhat of a Renaissance Man--I program, write, fiddle with electronics, skeet shoot, draw, wrench on my motorcycle, play a musical instrument or two, do carpentry and so forth. I find it moderately amusing to hear geeks who wouldn't know their way around an engine compartment tell auto mechanics that they're clueless--or nerds who can't carry a tune in a bucket tell musicians the same.
It's important to keep in mind (perhaps especially here on /.) that the average person isn't a computer expert. They use the computer the same way they use a car, or a stereo, or a blender--they don't necessarily understand (or care about) the differences between models, they just want something that works.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Right, but how many people go around saying "Oh, I never drive a BrandA cars, I've always driven BrandB cars. I wouldn't even know how to drive a BrandA. The buttons might be in the wrong place, or the shift lever might be at the rear passenger door. I just wouldn't know where anything was?" I've heard the strangest reasons for not switching to Linux. One was simply "The Start button looks too different." Yes, the start button was enough to scare them. Heaven forbid that they ever get in a car that had the gear shift on the wheel column instead of the floor.
No, the reason tech people say non-computer people are clueless about computers is because the ones that stick out in our memory are so willfully clueless. They are the ones who would get in any car and find the buttons they need, but change the color of an icon on the computer and they are lost. The blender breaks and they buy what ever one is on sale, but when they need to check their email they "Only know how to use OutLook Express. What is this 'webmail thing' you are talking about?" And stereos, geez, Talk about moving the buttons around, every one I've ever owned had the volume dial in a different place. But the volume icon in KDE is right next to the clock, same as windows normally, and most of these 'clueless' users wouldn't want to find it. They would rather just complain that 'it doesn't look the way I remember it.' I don't know what it is about computers that induces this autistic-like behavior, but that's exactly what it looks like.
I settled the issue with my parents. I told them that unless they could name an application they wanted to use that I could not get them under Linux, then the next time they wanted their computer fixed it was getting Linux installed. A nice windows-like theme and KDE, sure, I'd go ahead and do that for them, but I was not supporting windows. My mother actually asked me to pirate her a windows CD, just because she didn't want to 'learn a whole new computer'. I handed her my laptop and asked her what she thought, and she thought it was a "nice windows theme, but that wasn't linux. I've seen linux, that's where you type away in that little text box with no pictures."
Now they run Kubuntu, and the only problem they've had is that the LTS version hasn't updated firefox in ages. Next time they ask about it, they get moved from LTS to stable, which frightens them. I can't wait till they ask again and get moved to bleeding edge nightly builds.
Re:not surprising (Score:4, Funny)
I fell for it.... (Score:5, Funny)
I'll admit I fell for it. But in my defense, they showed it to me in the morning and I was really tired that morning for some reason. It's like someone switched out my usual high quality Columbian coffee with Folgers or something that day.
It should be labeled under "fun", not "kde" (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean; even the editors themselves state that there isn't any conclusion to be drawn here; "we've learned nothing" because there simply are too many factors to consider. People don't know Windows 7 or people don't know KDE. Or people don't really care at all. So; fun movie, move along.
Thats it just show the eye candy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any OS can look impressive when you find a demo that shows off all the eye candy to its full extent. You could have shown these people DWM configured nicely they would think it would be the next generation OS, UI. Vista got good visual reviews too. The problem is when you start working with it, things change. KDE and GNOME while have a rather niced polished UI, you still need to do things the Unix/Linux way. The same with windows no matter what you do to the UI it is still windows and need to work with it.
What I find really funny comparing Windows/Gnome/KDE with a Mac. The Mac actually has a lot less eye candy, yet perception has it as having more.
Re:Thats it just show the eye candy. (Score:5, Interesting)
My favorite piece of eye candy was the "static" when opening the photo.
When the hell is somebody going to fix that, and whos fault is it?
X? WM? Graphics Driver?
it's getting old.
Re:Thats it just show the eye candy. (Score:4, Informative)
Folgers... (Score:5, Funny)
The two guys' bottom line is nearly correct (Score:5, Interesting)
Still a nice little laugh, that video.
Re: (Score:2)
Totally agree with you - although at the end the ZDnet video they said 'they learnt nothing', that's not quite correct. They learnt that nobody in their (presumably not very scientific sample) has any idea of what KDE4 looks like...
So, as you imply, should be on 'idle' really...
Re:The two guys' bottom line is nearly correct (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The two guys' bottom line is nearly correct (Score:5, Insightful)
I think I learned quite a bit. I learned that when you get people in front of a camera talking about your product, they don't really pay very much attention to what they are seeing. If you look like a representative of the company, most people are going to say kind things.
Which to me, says an awful lot about the Mojave Experiment. It doesn't really matter what people say they think in that setting. It matters what they think when they install the OS on their own computer, and for Vista that hasn't been very good.
It also makes me question the effectiveness of usability labs I've sat through in the process of developing software for corporations. It's a painful process, and now I wonder if it is very accurate at all.
Good laugh, but misleading (Score:2, Insightful)
It's very misleading, people could have pretended any OS or GUI, including MacOS-X - because the 1-2 min demonstration saying "look how easy it is" could have been a Vista desktop with a different background image, and people would be alike fooled. So the laugh was good, but it just shows how misleading suggestive presentations are, and what people truly value: easy to use, and they believe it (first) when you tell them, and get pissed (later) when it's not so as told (like in case of Vista).
Is KDE4 actually usable yet? (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't a troll - I installed it with Suse 11.0 last year and though it was supposedly a release version it was utterly unusable, unstable and missing important features. I had to install 3.5.4 to actually get some work done. Since then I haven't bothered to check what state 4 is in now as I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it. Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
Re:Is KDE4 actually usable yet? (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, 4.2 is far, far better than 4. I use it and love it!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The question is: Is KDE 4.2 better than 3.5.x?
I've found that 4.2
* looks nice,
* is slow to draw things on the screen,
* still has fewer things working than its 3.5.x predecessor.
Although I found that I could alleviate most of the slow screen painting using desktop effects with KWin's composition manager. However, like all the other broken composition managers out there, you get a nice desktop that can't run 3D applications.
Lure them in with spinning cubes and wobbly windows and then break their hearts by te
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I run X-plane all the time under Gnome and compiz-fusion. It's almost as fast as without compiz running (indirect rendering does take a hit), and it still gets a very reasonable frame rate. Maybe Kwin's compositor prevents #D apps, but in general composite managers should not and do not. Now I do prefer to turn off the effects when I do run a game. But yes, 3D apps certainly do work u
Re:Is KDE4 actually usable yet? (Score:5, Informative)
I blame the distro. They should not have made KDE4 the default so early - they should have stuck with KDE 3 until at least 4.2.
AS far as I can remember KDE 4.0 was well know not to be really ready.
KDE4 user (Score:5, Informative)
I've been using KDE4 since openSUSE started including the previews.
I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it.
I don't know but to me it always seemed clear that the 4.0 was more a "early tester" release.
By now KDE4.2 is starting to get really usable and really configurable and could be used by more casual users.
Sure, if you have tons finely tuned stuff in KDE3.5, you'll really miss them.
But KDE4.2 offers enough basic functionality to be usable by most people.
Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
If you don't depend on highly specific KDE3.5 customisations,
or if you're ready to spend time re-tuning everything again in a slightly different way,
then KDE4.2 is definitely worth giving a try.
On the other hand if you absolutely require the same level of ultra smooth-polished user experience that KDE3.5 offers, you'd better stick with the KDE3.x branch for now and probably wait until somewhere around the KDE4.5 version. (maybe just giving quick shot to KDE4.3 and 4.4 just to watch progress).
Ditto for KDE5.x in a couple of years : stay with KDE4.5 until that one matures. ;-)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hey.
I have a fix for you.
Add krandrtray to your list of Autostarted applications.
See this bug for more information:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163707 [kde.org]
Re:Is KDE4 actually usable yet? (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems to me that the solution to that would have been to call "4.0" "4-alpha". I'm not a big KDE user myself (I'm mostly forced to use Windows machines for my day to day workstations, and as often as not I just SSH into the servers to admin them), so I don't know what the issues are/were beyond what I've seen on /. comments, but it sure seem like they released a ".0" release without really finishing it. Which is what everyone screams at Microsoft for doing all the time. this little comment war breaks out every so often, and it always come back to "Well they/we admitted it was crap when they/we released it!". So why release it? Release the alpha as an alpha and release what is now 4.2 as the 4.0 release.
Not being either a developer or a (significant) user of the project I don't really have a horse in the race, but it sure seems like if a commercial product had done this kind of thing it would have been held up by the community as an example of why FOSS is better. Granted I don't usually pay $unspecified_large_amount_of_money to use KDE, so I guess that's something, but shouldn't a flag ship FOSS project hold itself to the same standards that it expects from its competitors?
I like the conclusion... (Score:4, Funny)
It is indeed surprising AND unsurprising.
The video ends with the two guys discussing "what have we learned today". FTFV:
Sufficient Reason To Avoid Both (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't distinguish KDE from Windows, and vice versa, that's reason enough to avoid both.
"I use Windows iMac" (Score:5, Informative)
So what does this experiment show? That people just aren't computer savvy.
Re:"I use Windows iMac" (Score:4, Informative)
Re:"I use Windows iMac" (Score:4, Insightful)
It shows that the supposed problem, "People just can't understand how to use Linux" is bunk. If they can't even tell it from the latest and greatest Windows, how can it be any more confusing for them than Windows is?
Put another way, if the users are going to be confused anyway when upgrading from XP, you might as well upgrade to Linux and get off the treadmill.
What does it show? (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyone staging a demo can find a number of people to say oooh ahhhh.
Seriously. This is the problems with computers today. The perception of "usability" is not actual "usability."
We all know, at the end of the day, "usability" is how easy it is to accomplish one or more tasks, to a certain degree the ease at which you learn how to do these tasks, and lastly the predictability and reliability of accomplishing your tasks.
So, if something is easy to do, easy to learn, and rewards careful execution with consistent outcome, the thing is easy to use.
Now, where does flashy eye candy come in to that picture? It doesn't. That's why military vehicles are all drab colors. The criteria is utility not beauty.
Sure, I do *like* the way KDE 4 looks, but it is less usable than KDE 3.
Re:What does it show? (Score:4, Interesting)
They DO act the same.
Point in fact, they don't. They have different action menus, options, etc. Dragging an icon from konqueror or dolphin creates something "different" and behaves differently than something from within dolphin or konqueror.
You've got it backwards.
Obviously I don't.
the Desktop as a folder AND as an interface is where you get things acting differently in different contexts.
"contexts" are bad things to users. Coming to a system it is difficult to grasp multiple contexts. Even as a regular user, "contexts" are a pain in the ass.
Would you like to write a document in a contextual editor like vim or OpenOffice.org?
The KDE4 desktop makes interface separate from data.
Yes, you've said basically that same thing previously and my response is the same, it is a bad idea.
You have to have a plasmoid to display a folder's contents if you want data on your desktop, which is completely in keeping with the concept.
The "plasmoid" is a cop-out for a well typed system. Why do you need plasmoids for the desktop but not in dolphin or konqueror? The desktop, conceptually, represents a physical space as does file cabinets. Just like your real 3D desk, why would a piece of paper be something different on your desk than in a file cabinet?
This is the foundation of UI design. Our lizard brains want things to be consistent.
They also always act the same... you never see a folder on the desktop in KDE4
And that is something I dislike as well. I *like* and would prefer to use folders on my desktop, because in the real 3d world, I keep things on my desk. Up until Kubuntu 8.10, I used my desktop they way I wanted to use my desktop.
you never see a program icon.
Why not? I keep things like my ipod on my desk, a couple USB drives, etc. By making the desktop artificially restricted -- "different" -- from the rest of the system you make it less easy to use.
It's in a plasmoid or in the file browser
A "file browser" corresponds to a real world entity. A file cabinet. What does a "plasmoid" represent?
What is the perpose of introducing a new concept? What does it answer? How does it make the system more usable? I've read a lot of the KDE discussions about plasmoids and they are all about an aesthetic preference from a few people, but not one discussion about how they are better or easier for end users.
It's doing exactly what you say is good, but you keep claiming that it's bad.
Then you are confused about what I have said.
It's all about the... (Score:4, Insightful)
Apps and games baby...Uhh, uh-huh, yeah.
Seriously thou, the rub comes in with what the Win32/64 platform can run more than anything else these days. Both Mac and GNU desktops are plenty mature enough to deal with what most normal users would want. The main thing is now the sheer force of inertia that the Windows platform has in terms of what it runs natively.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Oddly enough the same group of people who want more Applications for Linux, are also so dead against Web Applications and Cloud Computing, which in essence gives apps to these platforms. Really other then Games, CAD or High Performance Apps. A Well Designed web app can do the job, and work on Linux, Mac, Windows, BSD, Solaris... As most applications are based on Text Input some calculations Text or simple graphic output, Web Based apps are a good choice.
But no punchline... (Score:5, Interesting)
At the end, they should have said:
"Have you ever heard of Linux?"
"What have you heard?"
"What you say if I told you this was Linux and not MS-Windows?"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
linux mojave TM
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And sad thing is...I can bet that in 2 years or so many MS-fanbots will point to KDE4 while saying "see? Linux doesn't innovate, it just rips off Windows!"...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
bait and switch and switch... (Score:5, Informative)
I started the video, and it stuttered, and started over... with an actual demonstration of Windows 7. I had to reload the page to get the KDE4 prank video.
Was that supposed to be some kind of Zen test?
Linux is ready, KDE4.2 is not (Score:3, Insightful)
Explaining tabs in the browser is harder, the vast majority will still shut down the browser instead of just the tab they were in.
Although KDE4.2 is showing great promises it's all but ready for full roll out.
But I sure like the way they are moving, it's nice to look at and the way they are splitting configurations like through widgets is in my view nice if only because it's optional.
But even in this demo we can see one of the issues, while rolling through the windows you notice how a video window is momentarily loosing like what seems sinc.
Now once it'll get snappy like KDE3.5 and robust as the OS underneath...
Eye candy is a superficial metric (Score:3, Interesting)
Exercises like this might be fun, but they have no practical purpose.
Linux desktops aren't marketed, they are judged by their users based on useful metrics: configuration options, stability, tools, etc.
In Windows world, 95, XP, and Vista were all marketed to the public primarily by showing static screens illustrating how pretty they were. Windows' classic interface looks bland today, but it was hip in the 90's. XP's fisher price interface was a hackish step further. Aero is a half-hearted catchup maneuver to Linux and OSX, delivered in a business-minded blandness that only Microsoft thinks is "innovative". Each of those versions were marketed the same, but received differently based on almost everything except their appearance. No one has ever said UAC prompts are pretty, they're too busy being annoyed by them.
Which desktop is more visually attractive has little to do with how much can be done with it, and how efficiently.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:eye candy (Score:4, Insightful)
Compared to other OS's MacOS is actually quite lite with its eye candy. Oddly enough OS X focuses more of the function of the UI more then how it looks. Every effect has a reason for it, and is used to help people grasp rather abstract concepts better. Vs. Say Wobbly windows in Ubuntu Linux which only hinders usage in order to look fancier aka (Window stuttering when it gets close to an other window)
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod parent up. Almost all attacks against eye candy are based on a false dicothomy between beauty and functionality. Wobbly windows are not useful? Well, probably neither is your wallpaper. Or the painting on your house. Or good-looking clothes. And as much as it may sound surprising, woobly windows do not get in my way, I like them and nowadays I feel unconfortable when I have to use another system that does not have them. Different people, different tastes.
Going all "eh, I prefer functionality" is like ignoring a incredibly hot girl because "since she's beautiful, she's probably dumb". One thing does not exclude the other, specially considering Compiz/KWin are remarkably fine-tunable.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's when the eye candy gets in the way of the functionality that it becomes a problem. (To stretch your analogy, you can never go out with your beautiful girlfriend, because she takes all night to put her make-up and clothes on.)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My argument against moving the windows to be wobbly is the fact in real life we have more experience with solid objects Then Rubbery ones. Moving a windows should stay as a solid feel. Actually if you want to get a more realistic effect you should probably have the window rotate based on the torque that you place on the window when moving it. As for the "slurp" it effect is because the window is doing something that in real life we don't experience Objects shrinking without distortion it also forms an arro
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Which isn't a problem except that you use "slurp is good because it helps the metaphor" in your defense of it.
You're quoting me? I never said that. I think the whole document/window/desktop metaphor stuff gets in the way of providing organizational mechanisms that possibly "break" some stupid metaphor. If something works, I don't care if it behaves within the bounds of a "desktop" metaphor. Or if something uses a "slurp" animation when such things don't occur in nature. It's useful organ
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I the only one who doesn't want eye candy these days?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the look of Pre-OSX Mac or early Unix operating systems, or windows 3.1... I don't want things that are painful to look at. Just a simple, quiet appearance that doesn't distract me from what I'm doing.
I can get that in Windows and KDE 3.5. I can get it in Gnome.
Vista screwed the UI, and I can't get it there (I can come close, but they made some things use the same colors, while in earlier versions of windows, they used different colors - such as input fields and non-input page backgrounds. Windows 7 hasn't fixed this.
KDE 4, MacOSX, Windows 7, Windows Vista... Too much bling and not enough customisation in the UI for me.
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Informative)
Xfce is your friend.
I use Xubuntu. Plain, clear, simple and *fast*. 8.10 runs out of the box everything on my ThinkPad laptop including Bluetooth. Get it.
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I'll second this. Xubuntu or Slackware with Xfce is very nice. It looks good without being distracting. It is very fast compared to the other full desktop/window managers and doesn't get in the way. Being based on Gtk it has similar customizations as gnome. KDE apps still run great under it as well. I keep trying Gnome & KDE but always go back to Xfce when I need to get some work done.
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XFCE is nice, but I think Fluxbox is nicer still, especially when used with XFCE apps. It loads in less than a second but still manages to look rather nice [imageshack.us] with transparency and stuff. The best bit though, aside from its fleety-nimbleness, is that it allows user-definable, chained keyboard shortcuts (I have {Alt+x, Alt+z} mapped to 'screen -Rd', for example). It's freaking awesome.
I apologise for evangelizing, but I just love it so damn much.
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WindowBlinds, huh?
Ahhhhh! My eyes!
http://www.draginol.com/images/WindowBlinds6screenshots_CE30/image_10.png [draginol.com]
Wow, after seeing that desktop, I see why Ubuntu went with brown instead of bright, fluorescent orange :)
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Funny)
You'll buy KDE4?!?!
I've got this pirate copy of KDE4.2... It's much cheaper than the original.
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Re:eye candy (Score:5, Funny)
That's a bug in your legal system. I heard you recently voted a new president who may submit a patch.
Then again, your system is so broken you may want to consider a ground up re-write.
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Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Re:eye candy (Score:4, Funny)
I heard you recently voted a new president who may submit a patch.
Yeah, but it touches about 30 unrelated systems and runs magic code as root.
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Informative)
Can I legally play a DVD on a Linux box in the US?
Yes.
Ask Dell. They now include a closed source DVD player app to cover this niggle. The rest of the world uses the free codecs and the libdvdcss library just fine.
Another Linux roadblock gone eh.. Soon people will have to come up with real arguments.
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
"Another Linux roadblock gone eh."
How about Blu-Ray?
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now all you have to do is reliably and legally run all software that runs on windows
I can tell you right now that I have been using Linux exclusively since 1995. I have not missed *any* Windows software.
I have always had a good office suite. Applix, then Star Office, now OpenOffice. I have always had netscape. I have always had modern tools of the time.
So, why would I want to run Windows software that is inherently more buggy, not designed for my platform of choice, and does not give me the freedom to inspe
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You're an outlier.
Ad Hominem - You seek to label me in an attempt to diminish my opinion. FUD Warning FUD warning Danger Will Robinson.
It's only been since about 2003 or 2004 that Linux has been good enough for me to consider using it exclusively.
That may be your opinion, and you have every right too it, but Windows has NEVER been good enough for me.
That's just for software quality,
Nice generalization. Which software would that be? Come on, dig deep make up something.
and completely discounting software c
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And what is RA3? Red Alert 3? If you're wanting to run a program designed for WINDOWS you need Wine installed first. Linux isn't Windows, which is apparently very hard for lots of people (like you) to understand. After that, you just pop the disc in, and install [winehq.org]. You might consider playing a better programmed gam
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Linux isn't Windows, which is apparently very hard for lots of people (like you) to understand.
I've never understood why people have no trouble understanding that with a Mac they can't use Windows software. But with a linux distro, they scream that they can't install the free* smiley pack they downloaded. This is the sole reason I haven't moved most of my family to linux and thus freeing myself from having to remove viruses and spyware every month.
*Free to install, and only US $60 to remove all the spyware that program it came with found!
Re:Welcome to Niggerbuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
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I Sir, will have you know I'm a civilized primate and only fling poo at others during football season.
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Actually, what I told my Ubuntu box to do was to look on the network for a printer. Even easier than putting a disk in. Then, when the printer became really flaky and stopped talking in TCP, and only in Appletalk, I told it to look for a CUPS server on my wife's iMac. Still easier than putting a disk in.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ubuntu for somebody who didn't specifically want a specifically Windows program. It's ready to roll from the start.