Google's Android To Challenge Windows? 269
PL/SQL Guy writes "Search giant Google is set to offer its free Android mobile-phone operating system for computers, opening a new front in its rivalry with Microsoft by challenging the dominance of the company's Windows software. Acer Inc., the world's second-largest laptop maker, will release a low-cost notebook powered by Android next quarter, said Jim Wong, head of information-technology products at the Taipei-based company. Calvin Huang, an analyst at Daiwa Securities Group Inc, says that adoption of Android-based netbooks will likely eat into Windows' share of PC operating systems."
Meanwhile, notes reader Barence, Asus is continuing to distance itself from Android, saying it "isn't a priority."
Contradictory Statements! (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, notes reader Barence, Asus is continuing to distance itself from Android, saying it "isn't a priority."
I think the article you wanted to link there was Asus distances itself from Android netbook [pcpro.co.uk].
That's odd considering the story we discussed yesterday [slashdot.org] in which Qualcomm showed an eee PC (an Asus product) running Android with an ARM processor. And in the Bloomberg article (which also mentions that), "Asustek said in February its engineers were trying to develop an Android-based netbook this year."
The comments of Jonathan Tsang, vice chairman of Asus, don't convince me. Actions speak louder than words. Hint: When you release an ARM Processor based chipset in a netbook, you're actually distancing yourself from Windows and x86 applications.
What he means to say is "everything's ready, just don't alarm our Redmond masters [slashdot.org] until we're sure the consumer likes Android."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you actually need a s/Acer/Asus/g; in there, read what you quoted.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not all that sold on the idea of Android as a netbook OS, Moblin or ordinary Linux would be my preference; but it is nevertheless a potentially viable candidate.
Most PCs spend most of their lives doing something very close to the netbook use case, so sure, many could be replaced by netbooks. Hardly 100%, but many.
Re: (Score:2)
Those are also two things I've done with my Linux-only laptops (both my 13" running Kubuntu and my 8.9" AA1 running a slightly modified Acer-ized Linpus).
Re:Contradictory Statements! (Score:4, Funny)
That's Video Graphics Array to you, TeknoHog. IAEATMTWPOA, eh? Sheesh. ;-)
Re: (Score:2)
Symbian? (Score:3, Informative)
Right now, Android is more a rival for symbian than for Windows.
Re:Symbian? (Score:5, Funny)
I agree. Women would never again buy Sybian [wikipedia.org] devices if they could be sexually serviced by a full-sized android a la the Kubrick/Spielberg film A.I..
Oh, wait, you said Symbian. Oops.
Re: (Score:2)
"[A/I] was excellent Science Fiction."
OOO..........OOOOOO...OOO.......
OOO..........OO.....OO...OOO.......
OOO..........OO.....OO...OOO.......
OOOOOO..OO.....OO...OOOOOO
OOOOOO..OOOOOO...OOOOOO
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
you forgot to include the oft repeated "it's the year of the Linux desktop" in your list of utter fail.......
Re: (Score:2)
Will be equally funny to revisit your comment every fucking day until it happens (i.e, until the end of time).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
my guess is that he meant windows mobile.
Open vs Closed (Score:2, Insightful)
Here we have a very interesting inversion of the typical Open vs Closed debate. Although Windows itself may be a closed source OS, it is actually a very open system. And although Android is built on layers of open source components, it is fundamentally a closed system (like iPhone).
The target audience for Android PCs would be one which needs a dedicated internet browsing device. Anything more would mean that they would be looking at Windows.
This strategy has been tried several times before. And it has faile
Re:Open vs Closed (Score:5, Informative)
"Anyone can take the Android platform and add code or download it to create a mobile device without restrictions," Google said in an e-mail. "We look forward to seeing what contributions are made and how an open platform spurs innovation."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is it Google's fault that your expectations of them are unrealistic?
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it Google's fault that your expectations of them are unrealistic?
Because his expectations were fully possible and perfectly understandable given Google's history. Google tends to under-promise and over-deliver. In this case (as in Chrome, IMHO) they've not promised much at all, and still under-delivered.
When I first heard of Android, I pictured a Linux distro with the attractiveness and user-centeredness of Apple, mixed with the openness and security of Linux, and somehow integrated with Google's various apps. The result would destroy Apple on the desktop and relegate
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought it was just a phone OS though? Is google pushing Android on netbooks or is someone else. From what (admittedly little) reading I've done on the API and stuff everything seems centered around cell phone usage - event classes, screen UIs that seem to fit a cell phone pretty well, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Because they intentionally deceived people into thinking that Android would be open and free?
"But Android IS open and free!" you say.
"The END DEVICE isn't!" you protest.
Well whoopti-fucking-do how does that help ANYONE other than the fucking cell phone manufacturers and service providers? Oh, it doesn't. It just adds one more "platform" to the bloated cell phone / PDA world.
Android is nice on paper, but I'm not buying a fucking platform spec. I'm buying a cell phone. No, I don't want to spend ages writi
Re:Open vs Closed (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the problem is that you can't produce the hardware cheap enough to make Windows compatibility a non-issue. If you could buy a typical sized netbook that could just do email and browse the internet (including supporting things like flash, like it or not) nobody would care which OS it used.
Oops - forgot to mention the price point (Score:4, Insightful)
I forgot the most important part "for $99.95".
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm just going to buy one, and think of it as a high-end Smartphone. It may also function as a PC, but I'm mostly buying it to have a versatile, low-power media hub I can take with me anywhere.
Flash is really slow, and I would really like for it to die before all the hardware catches up.
Re: (Score:2)
Is anyone really trying?
The cheapest netbooks I can find on Amazon are around $250, with specs that are sufficient for Windows XP. The OLPC laptop reportedly costs around $200 these days (difficult to compare because it is not in the usual sales channels).
I wonder how much you could squeeze the price with a cheaper processor (ARM?), less memory and a minimalistic Linux setup.
Re: (Score:2)
If the price point was low enough I'd buy one just to keep my wife & kids off my main machine. All they do is club penguin and facebook, so their needs are pretty small.
Re: (Score:2)
The number of people that want to do only those things is so small its a moot point.
You might be surprised. If you want to look at what's likely to happen in the tech market, look to Japan. The netbook/internet appliance trend started there way before it came to our shores. The trend toward less expensive appliance type devices has continued to expand over there and I can't see a reason to think the same thing won't happen here.
Re: (Score:2)
I think the fact that Windows netbooks outsell Linux netbooks dramatically says a lot about how Americans feel about their computer. They want a familiar environment. I bought an Acer with Linux as was surprised at how feature full it was. I could do the majority of tasks that I would want to do on a netbook. Other people with less technical skills found it cumbersome though as things didn't work as they expected.
The netbook trend started a long time ago and only recently did it become useful enough for th
Re:Open vs Closed (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that's more because Americans wanted cheaper laptops, not portable internet devices. The original concept of a netbook has been replaced with scaled down (physically and price-wise) laptops.
Americans don't have a problem with the variety of unfamiliar phone OSes out there, because nobody expects them to be like their big desktop computers. If we had the same view of netbooks, Linux would continue to dominate there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And Android should fill all those roles adequately.
Where it will fall down is when people realize that there isn't much room for growth beyond those things. Even those people who use web/IM/mp3 primarily want to write a letter from time to time.
Or play a graphics-intensive game. Or use photoshop.
The kludge that is a Java-based Android doesn't allow for much beyond the basics. And, moreso than any other platform, the reliance upon Java prevents migration of other applications. And, really, who wants an o
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're slipping badly there.
Er... what? (Score:5, Insightful)
In what way is Android a closed system? Anyone can write Android apps. The API is fully open. Anyone can publish them to the Google ap store. Or you can just install them individually like any application for any OS.
I don't see how you can compare Android to the iPhone as both being closed. The iPhone is closed in every single way. Android in nearly none.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well, his name is "BadAnalogyGuy"...
Re: (Score:2)
In what way is Android a closed system?
can I touch kernel from userspace?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You dirty old man.
Re:Open vs Closed (Score:4, Insightful)
Although Windows itself may be a closed source OS, it is actually a very open system. And although Android is built on layers of open source components, it is fundamentally a closed system (like iPhone).
This doesn't make much sense. If we're comparing OSes themselves, then neither one restricts application development or distribution. If we're comparing devices, then, obviously, it's quite possible to lock down Windows just as much as any other OS if the device manufacturer decides to do that - it's just that it's something much more common in phone/handheld market. I doubt that Android-based netbooks, for example, would be similarly locked down - it would fall short of the expectations consumers have of those devices, based on existing models.
Re:Open vs Closed (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? The EEE, the Cloudbook, the Wind, and most of the others were preinstalled Linux from the start, only adding preinstalled Windows as an option months after they came out. Are you implying that these were not usable?
How exactly? (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux has more software than android and if we're talking about familiarity the linux desktop is closer to windows than android.
The android netbooks will be cheaper than the windows ones but, again, if that hasn't helped linux I don't see how it's going to help android.
I'd like to see the microsoft dominance in the os market broken as much as anyone but I don't have much hope this is going to do it.
Re:How exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
What does android has that linux doesn't?
Google
Re: (Score:2)
which means?
Which means they're a giant. What, you thought that all it took to replace Windows on hundreds of millions of computers was to slap a nice package manager on top of GNOME? It takes a giant to do damage to a giant.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Anyway, I hope they can deliver us a proper UI, Ubuntu is cool, but there is still work to do.
Unity, name recognition, money. (Score:3, Insightful)
"What does android has that linux doesn't?"
Unity: as opposed to the fragmentation of Linux. Linux has ~1% of the desktop market and that is divided into a hundred fragments. I say this as someone who uses RH at work and Ubuntu at home (secondary boot to windows). I am not going to get into a back and forth over the benefit of the freedom to fork new things. Yep thats nice, but with the utter fragmentation reducing Linux to the ghetto forever, it has IMO relegated it to the backwaters forever.
Name recognitio
Re: (Score:2)
Cheezburger?
Re: (Score:2)
You realise that these days, if you see someone who never heard of Google you can safely call him a Luddite, right? Everyone knows who Google is, a lot of people even refer to their web browser as "Google". They have as much brand recognition if not more than Microsoft and Apple, and everyone knows that Google makes great services.
Given how much muscle they can flex on any front if they really get into it, in 10 years even your mom will want a "Google laptop".
Windows' biggest challenge is its size (Score:5, Insightful)
So personally I don't see Android as a specific challenge to Windows, I see Windows being challenged by a fundamental shift in computing - from the desktop to personal - and Windows biggest challenge in this area is probably itself and it's own bloated history.
Re: (Score:2)
The DS doesn't have enough battery life to handle that kind of usage, so it's foolish to try to sell those things for it. PSP is in the same boat, as are most notebooks, netbooks, etc.
Hell, my Android phone -barely- has enough power to get through work, let alone a whole day. I've taken to carrying a rechargeable usb battery recharger with me when I won't be home all day. (Which, other than being heavy in your pocket, works quite well.)
Re: (Score:2)
The biggest challenge facing Windows is its size and hardware requirements
Well, most people would say its reliability and security issues. But I guess those are also effects of feature bloat, driven by a desire to please lots of diverse customers.
Nobody seems immune from this. Apple people I know blame it for the meltdown in OS 8 development. I work at Sun, and I noticed that our latest crop of Sun Ray thin clients [sun.com] come with RS-232 ports — this at a time when such ports are disappearing from most products, including previous Sun Rays. When I asked about it, I was told that
The DSi could almost do it (Score:2)
I bought my son a DSi when I was in Hong Kong last March. It's a pretty impressive piece of hardware for something that inexpensive, and it makes a wonderful educational platform because of the touch screen. I can see the DSi mark 2 or so supporting GSM and being able to work as a video phone. It already has two cameras - one facing the user and one facing away - that would make it ideal for video phone calls so the person on the other end can see you and then you can say "Hey... look at this..." and just t
Famous Last Words (Score:3, Funny)
Asus is continuing to distance itself from Android, saying it "isn't a priority."
They're probably also thinking that those long-haired young guys calling themselves the "Beatles" aren't worth the investment in signing up with their company, either.
Re: (Score:2)
Pointless Link (Score:4, Informative)
"Asus is continuing to distance itself from Android, saying it "isn't a priority.""
If you follow the link from that quote in the summary, the word "Asus" isn't anywhere on the page.
Re:Pointless Link (Score:5, Funny)
Well, you can't get much more distant than that.
Explain to me why Android is good for Netbooks... (Score:2)
(This is not intended to be a knock on Linux). Linux netbooks, after enjoying a brief marketshare spike when there was no alternative, are not popular with the majority of end-users. So what makes Google think that Android will do any better than Linux did? There's way more software for Linux than Android--and way more for Windows than Linux...
Even if you add a way to connect to the Internet, why would Android be any better for Netbooks than Linux was? At least with Linux, and especially with Windows, I
Next Wave (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that this is all part of the next wave of computing devices. The iPhone showed that portable computing device could be easy to use and fulfill a number of functions including cell phone, internet browser, applications platform and media player. It's not so much a smart phone as it is a computer. Google followed with Android. Nokia and RIM are now inspired to try to make their smartphone operating systems work the same way. They won't. They are going to have to adopt Android or develop new operating systems (Linux-based most likely) if they want to compete for the long term.
The next step (this new wave) is to use the operating system developed for iPhone type devices on larger form factors better suited for more general purpose computing. The rumored Apple tablet and what is being announced here are just that. The approach of trying to fit a full desktop operating system on crapped-down hardware that conforms to a common PC form factor yielded netbooks. If you are used to a full blown laptop netbooks are very unsatisfying. Yet the need for a less expensive, useful and durable device with excellent battery life remains. I think that is what these new devices are trying to address and it makes sense to me that they are more likely to be successful.
Microsoft, watch out. The growth in the computing market will be devices like these, not general purpose computers - desktops and laptops. These devices will be more reliant on browser based RIA apps (e.g. Javascript & HTML5) and web services than on native applications. General purpose PCs will still be around in large but stagnant numbers. If I'm making these more specialized devices, why would I pay for an operating system when I can get one for free? If the browser I put on my device meets all the requisite standards, you can no longer offer me the advantage of lot's of applications.
But Microsoft is not stupid. The new Zune HD shows me that at least they are thinking about this market and how to compete in it.
You dont need big market share to win here (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember Firefox? Once it reached a 10% market share most websites started abandoning MSFT's walled garden and adopt standards. Same way if enough people migrate to Google docs, Open Office, Android etc etc, it will nail MSFT's underhanded tactics. If 10% of the people are using OpenOffice, they will interact with some 20% of the MsOffice market, and start demanding smooth file transfers. If 10% of the people use Android net book to take a quick look at MsOffice powerpoint it will force MSFT to at least allow a standard compliant export or standard compliant view only mode.
That is all it takes to start shaking the monopoly. Once MSFT market share in Office and OS starts to dip below 80% it will get into a avalanche mode and drop to 40% in just 4 or 5 years.
This won't work on netbooks, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
If it looks like a portable computer (laptop/netbook), people will expect to see Windows on it, and the vast majority of them will run away if it doesn't have it.
Alternative OSs have a chance on things that have the same compute power as a portable computer, but don't look like them.
Android/Linux/OS X on smartphones or similar things will sell.
I predict that whatever Apple does with all those 10" screens it it rumored to be buying, it won't look like a netbook.
Conventions (Score:2)
Come on, stick with the proper conventions.
No Way, Really? (Score:3, Insightful)
Who didn't see this coming? But I think the smarter route is to start it as purely a mobile (smartphone/netbook) OS, work out the kinks and extend it THEN break it out as a full fledged OS. You'd hit the ground running, people already familiar with it, apps developed for it, etc. Then crush Microsoft's grapes.
At last! (Score:3, Insightful)
I just realised a few days ago that there was something wrong with the desktop OS market: you have a declining giant which held until now pretty much 98% of its market (non-Mac PC market), a strong but much smaller giant which is much more limited in how it can eat the big declining giant because he requires buying a whole new machine (and doesn't even cover all the ranges of machines, i.e. hardly any low end machines), and the rest, which is the tiny Linux and BSD guys who can't do much because well, none of them are anywhere near being giants.
So I thought something is missing, cause if the big giant is declining fast, then another giant has to help him lose its market share. Apple can only do it in a very limited manner, and even if desktop Linux was ready as a product it just isn't pushed into the desktop OS market by a giant.
And there comes Google and its Android platform. If they are actually going for the desktop market, and if they do things right, then I believe that within a few years they'll manage to relieve Microsoft from a portion of their desktop OS share that we'd consider quite significant by our current standards (understand 5-10% in 5 years), and in the long term they may turn out to be the ones who break the Windows' image of being the big OS you can't do without.
That's a huge challenge, but the thing about Google is, they're fucking huge now, but their biggest thing is still by far their web searching, and they're as big as one can be there, so I think they need something else that is huge to get into. Taking a shot at replacing Windows on desktops/laptops/netbooks seems like a logical choice.
Ho Hum (Score:2)
Two things:
1. People don't buy operating systems, they buy applications. Yet another OS is not interesting.
2. Handhelds and netbooks are getting more powerful with every new product. At some point, they can run Windows without sacrificing the "user experience." Small fast OS' have a fleeting advantage.
Does it.... (Score:2)
Hrm... I see. Well, if I want an OS that lets me chat, email, and surf the net then I'll install Ubuntu.
nobody likes a stylus (Score:2, Insightful)
Bill Gates was a big believer in the Tablet form factor, but it never took off because it used the Windows UI (Start Bar, icons, windows), AND because it basically requires the use of a stylus. Now Bill Gates may be the kind of guy who has his shit together enough to not lose his stylus constantly, but a lot of the rest of us do not. If there is one thing you have to gi
'Microsoft to leave smartbooks to Google' (Score:3, Interesting)
Although it may be a case of CYA, or a byproduct of some Wintel partnership fine print, Microsoft has said it has no plans to port a PC version of Windows over to the ARM core, in a sense leaving the whole "smartbooks" market Linux and Android [infoworld.com].
And though it may be true that an Intel deal, a desire not to eat into its own Windows netbook/notebook revenue, or the difficulty of porting a worthwhile version of Windows to ARM is at the heart of this deference to Android, you have to wonder whether there is some grain of truth to the fact that it is 'hard to create new categories' of technology, as Microsoft is claiming in relation to its stated disinterest in "smartbooks."
Missing the Point (Score:4, Insightful)
There is such a misunderstanding of what is going on with netbooks. There are two markets developing, and they could not be more different. The most important difference is who the customer really is:
Consumers (meaning you and me) are buying cheap, small, wimpy laptops. This is the market that is going crazy right now as people are buying $279 netbooks instead of $500 laptops. (Windows is a plus here as it protects the buyer's investment in legacy software). For most netbook buyers, it's either a compliment to their desktop or it is the primary machine for a non power user. Linux is important in this market because MS was forced to allow XP to be sold as Vista was too heavy, and will continue to be too heavy. In fact, MS had end of lifed XP before allowing netbook manufacturers to distribute with their computers.
- and -
Cell phone carriers are buying connected netbooks. Cell carriers want to sell these inexpensive netbooks locked on to their network. It's a way to sell another connection to you for $50/month using their traditional loss leader strategy (have a $250 phone for free, just pay us $50/month for two years). Windows is a liability here as it takes a lot more end user support than a purpose built environment like Android. Windows also just can't be locked down like Android either (this is considered good. Android is not itself a consumer product, but Android applications are). Most software is going to be either small applications that are installed on the netbook or bigger ones that are provided via browser (Google Apps). Android is built to deliver internet based applications and distribute applications in a way that limits the need for technical support. In other words: it's amazingly easy to use for end users and doesn't break in ways that reqire support calls. It also can be locked down to the carrier's needs (doing so may limit what Google software may be shipped with the device).
Tricked out Android + VNC? (Score:3, Interesting)
If people want Windows, they can have Windows. However, I'll be more than happy to stick with the rarely-used Windows installation I already have.
How often do you use a full-blown OS while you're waiting at the fast food line? Not very often, I'll bet. Why not simply leave the bloat at home or in the office? Most of us would be happy with relatively simple things like a good web browser, email reader, and a cheap old rich text editor, and if you're going to blur the lines between phone and netbook, why not add phone functions to that list? All of those things are things that will come to Android, and it basically takes care of the "necessities" on the go.
As far as the luxuries on the go, you might be able to squeeze a DVD drive into that sub-netbook. Wireless connectivity can be used to connect to the heavier iron, making things that people use at work and home accessible (take for example: MS Office or programming tasks).
VNC is not out of the question; the most you may have to do is bring your little charger around with you. The bigger question than VNC is how to make it accessible to the masses? I'd think that's easy. Google has the connectedness to be able to tell one computer where to find another computer, all you'd need is the connecting software. Granted, it's not quite like having a laptop right in front of you, but it allows the casual person to be able to take care of things at home, including checking on the shopping list.
Let's face it; we're not limited to the world of x86 netbooks. smartbooks (or sub-netbooks) can be the tool of choice; capable of things that you wouldn't even be able to do casually with your favorite phone or Windows-based laptop variant. I know that I'd ditch my laptop for a smartbook that can do the works, even if I have to do some things remotely.
Re:2010... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You telling me people don't know how to use firefox on mac os x/eee's linux distro but do know how to use it on windows? That's absolutely ridiculous.
Not even a little ridiculous. Even things as simple as having the [x]close button on the left side rather than the right side is enough to confuse people. Yet alone the crappiest thing I think OSX does, puts all the menus at the top of the screen rather than attached to the window I'm using. When I have my MBP connected to my dual monitor setup I have to li
Re: (Score:2)
This whole 'used to windows' thing really bugs me. What difference does it make what OS your browser is running on? You telling me people don't know how to use firefox on mac os x/eee's linux distro but do know how to use it on windows? That's absolutely ridiculous.
People actually liked New Coke better than the original Coke. The thing about people is that most would rather keep something inferior than change to something new.
It's not that people can't figure out how to use a different desktop OS, it's that they don't want to use a different desktop OS. And it's not because they like their current OS, it's that they don't like changing it. That is why Microsoft and Apple both got their systems in schools, because what kids grown up on, they will want to stay on, eve
Re: (Score:2)
If you know which operating system you are using you are either a geek or the operating system is getting in the way
Most non-geek people I ask think they are running a system called "Word" (or whatever the main app they use is) , and they also use Email (client not important) and "The Internet" again client not important, if it all worked on another system it is unlikely they would ever notice ....
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You've obviously never done customer support or you'd realize how important consistency and expected functionality is.
Just because YOU don't have a problem with different OSes and all their quirks doesn't mean that the rest of the world wants to learn how to use something new just to satisfy some moral conviction you have to OSS. Most of us have better things to do than extol the virtues of OSS without having a clue as to what making a pleasant user experience is.
Just because you weren't around when they c
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Sir, I think you overestimate people, completely. There are people who, if you run updates on their computer, lose the ability to figure out what to do, even if literally nothing about the machine changed.
Those screenshots? The icons are completely different. The people that need to be targeted don't read labels. They're the ones that go "I deleted the internet! My E is missing!" The reason they only use IM and email is because they just don't know how to do more. Remember: The majority of people are fuckin
Re:2010... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really true, unfortunately. I know this is just anecdotal but I've a few friends who were just getting into linux and they had nothing but trouble with installing on recent laptops.
They're pretty smart folks and somewhat tech-savvy, so I can't imagine someone's mom or grandmother trying to do the same.
Re:2010... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Not just early adopters of OS X, it's still that way. I have to look at everything in detail before I know if it will work. I have a windows box that I keep around just so I can do things like relyably sync and/or update my blackberry. Update maps on my GPS. etc...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People want to be able to walk into a shop and buy something.
This is completely different than 'commercial application and driver support.' There is no value to be had in aggressively promoting Linux compatibility at the average retailer. There simply aren't enough customers/money to be made yet.
commercial application and driver support
I am dog tired of hearing this bit of disinformation. Many distros provide excellent support. And I don't mean forums. I mean talking to a warm body on the phone that
Re: (Score:2)
I am dog tired of hearing this bit of disinformation. Many distros provide excellent support. And I don't mean forums. I mean talking to a warm body on the phone that can actually help.
I think what he really meant was "availability", not "support". Most Lexmark printers won't work any better when plugged into a Windows machine than they will when plugged into a Linux machine. The difference is that Lexmark makes available a Windows driver, but not so much for Linux.
Applications are the same, its not that the latest games can't run on Linux, it's that they are only made to run on Windows. 2D boy proved that it wasn't especially difficult to release a game for Linux, and make a good bit
Re: (Score:2)
True, no-one cares if the common or garden user can install it. What matters is whether they can *use* it without help once installed.
I disagree about commercial support of drivers and commercial apps - drivers are already free, you just have to buy an expensive bit of hardware kit to use them. Most people don't actually want to install the driver off the CD anyway - they perceive that as obsolete, and go online to get the latest updates anwyay.
Developers is probably the most important part - until there i
Re: (Score:2)
if it's blue screening on updates, you have a bad video driver most likely.
they have this thing called the reliability and performance report center.
try using it if you really are having these problems.
it will TELL you what is causing the blue screen.
most likely it isn't vista but a driver or bad component.
i personally can count on one hand the number of blue screens i've seen on 300 vista computers.
all of them were related to nvidia drivers.
all have been rock solid for over a year now.
Re: (Score:2)
And blaming Microsoft for an Nvidia/ATi/OEM driver / hardware problem isn't scapegoating.
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like you and your coworker are idiots if you can't get XP installed.
Sheesh. With that kind of attitude, no wonder Windows isn't getting anywhere.
Re: (Score:2)
Seems to me Windows got where it needs to be ages ago.
With that kind of success, no wonder Windows isn't GOING anywhere.
Still waiting for the year of the Linux desktop, though.
Re: (Score:2)
He's not an idiot. It turned out the necessary drivers weren't offered for XP for the laptop. But it took a bit of him tinkering/researching to be convinced there was no way around it.
Perhaps you can suggest a turnkey way to convert Vista drivers to XP, if you're so insightful?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm just leaving a note here so I can Google (or Bing) this next year and get an even bigger laugh out of it than just now.
rofl_yolotd
Re: (Score:2)
you should do so for this one:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255511&cid=28197577 [slashdot.org]
as well.......
Re:2010... (Score:5, Insightful)
With Ubuntu now in a "just works" state on some hardware
There. Fixed that for you. Unfortunately, my own stats (and I have installed Ubuntu on lots of different hardware configurations) indicate that in only about 30% cases it just works with all the hardware that an average user will immediately notice to fail. Wireless, sound cards, video cards (missing 3d support and more), ACPI quirks... I think that the year of Linux on Desktop will never come, until we realize that we must not go the Microsoft Way - we must go the Apple Way, no matter how absurd as it may sound at first! And maybe Google is trying to do just that - make sure there are several distinct hardware configurations 100% supported by Android, instead of writing software to support everything invented by the mankind.
Re: (Score:2)
Supporting only a narrowly defined set of hardware? Although that would be much easier in terms of support, linux only has a few percent of the market, so it's not like we can impose any rules on anyone... on the other hand one of linux biggest assets is its flexibility, running in small gadgets and supercomputers.
Re: (Score:2)
If that's how you define the Apple way (Score:3, Insightful)
Then we *have* defined the game we're going to play ourselves. It just doesn't involve total desktop dominance. The problem is that nobody will really admit this. Linux is about choice and freedom first, and development will proceed in that fashion for the forseeable future because that has value to the people who actually develop Linux.
Canonical can choose to play a different game with Ubuntu (which I love, btw, and my entire team has it installed on our development computers). But Linux is not Canonic
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't freeze hardware.
Just freeze API/ABI and commercial developers will come in droves (assuming the Linux community really wants commercial developers' support).
I currently do an embedded Linux project for Atom-based board.
It is a nightmare to select a kernel that supports all features of my board.
The drivers appear and disappear between kernel releases.
Their names and placements change between releases.
Because of API changes, they are often uncompilable between
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Linux has far better hardware support than Vista.
And if you really want to get technical, it's got a fsck of a lot better hardware support than any version of windows - AMR, MIPS, Sparc, Power, it runs on all of these.
Re: (Score:2)
1) I didn't compare Linux to Vista. I said that on many installations, Linux hardware support is lacking to say the least. I don't care if somebody's favorite garbage OS has better or worse hardware support, I tell about an important problem we have to solve. Vista may or may not support a huge amount of hardware, but unless we do far better (i.e. support everything it supports and more out of the box. Yes I really mean out of the box), we're not going to win this fight.
2) Last time I checked, x86 is used
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Ubuntu 9.04 had a serious regression on Intel integrated graphics [workswithu.com], as did Fedora 10. The sad part is this used to "just work" - Intel's drivers are fully open source.
Intel holds nearly 50% of the PC graphics [edn.com]
Re: (Score:2)
I want Google to maintain control over it,
This is human nature in action. Most people are quite happy to follow and do so with all the limitations and abuse that are sure to happen.
It never ceases to amaze me that everyone has access to many viable alternative operating systems, applications and platforms why they don't just drop Microsoft products and remember them as things they used when they were a whole lot less savvy.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd rather distance myself from Acer. Guys make shit desktops, I'm not about to trust them on anything else. I had a desktop from them for 6 months, had to replace almost every component in it. Think I kept the HDD, and that's about it.