Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? 1354
JustShootMe writes "I have a question for my fellow Slashdotters, and yes, I realize I am entering the lion's den covered in tasty meat-flavored sauce. I have never been a very social person, preferring to throw myself into technology; therefore, I've been spectacularly unsuccessful in developing any meaningful interpersonal relationships. Lately I have begun to feel that this situation is not tenable, and I would like to fix it. But I really don't know how and haven't the faintest idea where to start. I know that I am in the minority and that there are many different kinds of Slashdot readers, most of whom have more experience in this realm than I do. So please tell me: how, and more importantly, where do you meet fellow geeks — preferably including some of the opposite gender — in meatspace?"
Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:3, Funny)
Simple do what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did.
1: Create a huge tech company
2: Engage Human Resources
3: Pick a girl out of company cafeteria line.
4: Have lots of kids right away.
5: PROFIT!!
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, I don't understand!
I can't follow that, what happened to ??? ?
It's a critical step and it's not there! *head explodes*
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Insightful)
And besides that, its kind of stupid to try to find yourself a geek girlfriend. It may sound nice first, but your world viewing will be really limited and she will be just another nerdy thing there. I have a girlfriend that isn't really that nerdy at all, and shes dragged me to places I wouldn't otherwise go, but its always been fun in the end then and I get to see totally new aspect of life, not just the computer and internet. People need a push to do something different, and thats the perfect and most fun push. So dont again limit your activies to the nerdy stuff.
Now the thing isn't at all about what you do or what you're interested in. You just have to make it sound *interesting* and *create your personal style* that will stand you off from the group. That's the most critical part that most geeks dont see. They just try to act "normal" and end up looking shy and non-interesting. Most girls dont want "just another normal guy". Cocky but fun stories or talking works great btw, I landed my own gf by asking her questions noone else dared to ask and told her stuff noone else woulnd't dare to tell, but in a funny and laughting way. It also makes you interesting and creates attraction, and in the end way more open relationship aswell.
Non-geeky girls also tend to be a bit cuter and better looking too ;) (sorry slashdot girls, you're sexy tho!)
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen. First step is for the poor guy to stop calling himself a geek and seeing it as some sort of badge of identity. Treat people as people and why on Earth does he think he has to find someone who labels themselves according to some stereotype. Sharing some interests is fine. But the main things is you get on and fill the roles in each others lives that you both want to. You meet girls the same way anyone else on the planet does. You go out, you try to be fun and you mix with people until you find someone you like and who likes you. There is no special rule for people who... well, whatever the definition of "geek" is because I certainly don't know what the definition is
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Funny)
On the other hand: getting a nice haircut, wearing 'normal' clothes and acting a bit more normal isn't going to hurt either.
Ugh. You mean go out among the mundanes wearing clean jeans and a t-shirt with some kind of pop-culture reference on it?
Do you have any IDEA what you're risking there?
The hell with that. If she doesn't get my "Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?" t-shirt, then I don't wanna know her.
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless of course you can't stand bars. Ihave been in only one where it was any fun most bars are boring unless you are talkative. If you don't care about talking to random strangers then bars are useless. You haveto do something to waitfor thehours that women actually show up that aren't taken
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:4, Insightful)
Most women who go to bars are there to socialize with their friends, not to get picked up. The ones who go there to get picked up by strangers are not the kind you can build a long-term, meaningful relationship with.
Women expect to get hit on in bars, so their defenses are completely up.
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:4, Funny)
Everything was going so well until I found out she enjoys creating entirely flash-based websites.. *sob*
Re:Geek license suspended! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, you're probably best off finding friends at a LARP club or a game club of some kind. There are just too many types of geek who will be interested in computing and so any attempt to find friends/relationships amongst Linux geeks will be futile. Too large a collection of too many utterly divergent personalities.
No, you need to find a way to isolate a much, much smaller pool of geeks, ones who share multiple interests in common with you, and the only way to do that is to find groups that share your interests.
(Looking online very, very rarely works, mostly because online spaces allow people to be totally dishonest. If there's no honest representation, you cannot find people by presupposing they are being honest.)
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
(Looking online very, very rarely works, mostly because online spaces allow people to be totally dishonest. If there's no honest representation, you cannot find people by presupposing they are being honest.)
Sure you can.
Think about the kind of person you'd want. Then figure out the lie they'd tell about themselves in the personal section. Lie accordingly about yourself, and go from there.
Re:Go old school (Score:4, Funny)
Agreed - LARPs are good places to meet people who fall into the broad category of geekdom in my experience, and there's normally a good gender blend.
Min
On the downside, that gender blend consists entirely of LARPers. Let's be honest... LARPers are the furries of the gaming world.
Re:Go old school (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed! Many of us doctor chicks are geeky and dig smart guys even if we aren't computer geeky (ditto for the lawyers I know).
Also, if you are under 35, the ratio is in the favor of you guys, so chin up. There are more young female MDs and veterinarians than male. In fact, vet schools are graduating at around a 7:1 f:m ratio. I'm pretty certain graduate schools are also putting out more female than male doctors.
Here's how I meet geeks:
Martial Arts - I used to do TKD, but I met my best friends in Krav Maga. Find one you like and not only will you improve potential exposure, you'll get in better shape.
Other sports: rock climbing, biking, kayaking... local groups often meet or organize for these. If one interests you, look them up.
Volunteering - what? It's just what it sounds like. More people are volunteering these days with their unplanned time off (layoffs/furloughs).
Mutual friends - know anyone in a grad program? That's likely to be a ticket to a target-rich environment. I know, this isn't as true in tech/engineering/math fields, but a new friend-group is the key to meeting new people.
Classes - if you are working on a degree, remember: stats is the great melting pot. All of the sciences have to take it.
Ren Faires - geeks. Many of them female. Lots of bosoms. Sharp, pointy objects. Things on fire. There are worse ways to spend money.
Online - there's nothing wrong with dating sites as an option. Some are even geek oriented, like soulgeek.com and gk2gk.com :-)
Good luck!
Kali
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
2. Find a biker bar. A tough biker bar.
3. Enter, leap upon a countertop, and dance your nerdy heart out.
4. Once you wake up in Intensive Care Unit, try to pick up a sympathetic nurse.
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Informative)
Assuming guy looking for women: church, craft stores and shows, classical music concerts (musicians), amateur theater, Mac computer organizations have more women, Word SIGs, camera clubs, community college night courses. Married co-workers' wives have single friends. Volunteer groups, food banks, Salvation Army,
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
He said ~women~, not senior citizens ; )
Re:Go old school (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, senior citizens are a good start, since many of them have grand-children. I am not joking, it works. First seduce the grandmother or the mom, to a certain point I mean, then be introduced to the daughter.
Make sure you get to the last step, of course
Get a motorcycle! (Score:5, Interesting)
I met my wife online too, but before that, a motorcycle did wonders for my social life (in fact, it was the bike that gave me the confidence to meet her in person.)
Before I had the bike, I was shy and had low self esteem ... I was dateless for over two years. Within a few weeks of getting the bike, I was getting 2-3 girls a week asking me out! Seriously.. a motorcycle turns "shy and introverted" into "dark and brooding". (But don't assume that every woman will ask you out - if one comes over and talks to you about your machine, chat with her a bit about the bike and offer her a ride.)
Some caveats:
Re:Get a motorcycle! (Score:4, Insightful)
You're onto something there, but I think the bike doesn't have everything to do with it - your best advice is in your later steps.
The things women most dislike about geeks is there lack of personal style/confidence - in the "selection" code of human behaviour, these latter traits speak volumes about class/earning potential. Yes, some may argue that this is a trend that should have been left in the stone ages, but unfortunately we're still clinging to many of our old methods as we head into more intellectual climes.
I've been an IT guy since around a year and a half now, taking a break from a photography career of twenty years, and I can say as far as my social life goes, my style habits saved me. My present work doesn't interest my "usual" entourage at all (save for my closest friends), so I've had to turn to other networks for social - er - development. I've found that most people don't ~care~ what trade you do after you make it past the "first impression" stage.
So, yeah, definitely get into taking care of your "look" - as long as do it seriously, for you, with passion, it may at least give you a foot in the door.
Re:Get a motorcycle! (Score:4, Insightful)
I just want to ask: when did dark and brooding (also known as the "David Boreanaz douchebag look") become the ultimate in cool? What happened to bright and righteous?
Oh, wait, Christianity. Never mind.
Motorcycles and/or horses.... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you find a gal that is candid, then you will know that the similar stimulation factors involving the motorcycle's seat/vibration characteristics compare favorably to the seat/movement stimulus of a horse under saddle for said gal.
For you motorcycle-less, and horse-less dudes, there is still hope.
Howard Stern conducted an impromptu 'experiment' involving a powerful subwoofer that the gal could 'ride' astraddle of a sub-woofer under his control that achieved the same orgasmic results of motorcycles and horseback riding.
Imagination and creativity is your friend.
Studies conducted decades ago came to the conclusion [citation needed-too lazy to look]that date scenarios that induced adrenaline and other thrills increased your odds of getting lucky on dates...scary movies, thrilling carnival rides, riding 'shotgun' in safe, sanctioned drag races, bungee jumping, etc...all produced positive results far better than the typical 'dinner, chic-flick movie, then try to enter on delivery to domicile'(can I come in for coffee, or 'one for the road') approach.(there seems to be some correlation between adrenaline induced episodes invoking some kind of sexual arousal...may be related to some survival instinct or dopamine levels in the brain chemistry)
It seemed that the more novel the date setting==increased 'getting lucky' factor.
Exercise her mind and imagination with the date setting, don't be afraid as being lame for not following the time accepted formula..chicks dig getting a non-standard date...it shows innovation and 'outside of the box thinking', which will make them feel special and cherished.
I once took a gal to an annual 'Machinegun shoot' in Arizona, packed a picnic lunch.
I let her fire many different select fire, and automatic-fire weapons during the day.
We did not get 3 miles from the shoot and she was suggesting us getting a motel room to 'work off' the excitement.
Get out to groups that share your interests, and talk to any interesting(to you) gals in those groups to find likely candidates for dates.
Being turned down is just a filter to apply, not the end of the world, nor hope. Even if just talking to them gives you a platonic friend, that's still a plus!(hint:the more desperate you seem/act/come across as, the less chance you have.
A wedding band caused me to need a baseball bat to keep them away right after I got married!
Act somewhat aloof, but friendly to all for good results.
Somewhat shadier, but extremely successful, is if you have a friend that has a small child, especially a really cute 4-5 year old boy...offer to babysit, then take him grocery shopping. Make sure to take your 'little black book', as you will fill it before you get to the checkout line!!!!!
My college roomate (female-it was a 'big brother/surrogate hubby relationship-purely platonic..she was a single Mom, 12 years my junior, but convenient for us both at the time to 'set up house' together-we had separate social lives) had such a son, so I know it works(see shopping/babysitting tip above...I was exhibiting a 'nurturing/protective' attitude that long-term relationship gals were looking for subconsciously. apparently, and they came in droves and flocks!
I have found other effective techniques, but the bottom line:
1. stick to the truth at all times, it's much easier to remember 'one true story' that subsequent inquiries will inevitably expose/uncover, thus corroborate...it will happen!
2. avoid bars/clubs as 'girl shopping' areas, unless you are a 'knight in shining armor', and can afford to put up with the complications tha always seem to arise...still recommended against, but YMMV. YMMV adversely to exceptions more often than not-be forewarned!
3. avoid preconceptions and expectations, enjoy and treasure the jewels you find...even if they are not 'that right one'
4. beauty is not skin deep...beauty is like a properly cut, dressed, faceted, and polished gemstone. There are many facets that combine to make true beauty, which endures
Re:Go old school (Score:5, Funny)
step one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:step one (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, but is that such a bad thing? Maybe he doesn't just want a mundane, he wants a relationship with a female geek.
To the original questioner: How about finding your local a Hackerspace [wikipedia.org]? It's the perfect combination of meatspace activity and geekery. Plenty of geeky/artsy types at events like Maker Faire [makerfaire.com], or whatever your local equivalent is.
Re:step one (Score:5, Informative)
I would also suggest just going to things that interest you. Chances are that you'll find people there that you find interesting and who find you interesting. Plus you'd already have something in common.
The thing is that "I have to go to this place and find people who will like me" should not be your goal. You should go to things that you want to go to or are interested in. Going places just to meet people with the "will you be my friend" thing tends to make you come off as weird and not in the good way.
I met most of my really good friends that way. So have a lot, if not most, of the people I know.
Re:step one (Score:5, Insightful)
Some key things:
Re:step one (Score:4, Insightful)
however, wtf is "meatspace"? I have *never* heard this term used before.
It's the greater monkeysphere.
Re:Oh, and another idea... (Score:5, Funny)
don't view non-geeks as "mundane". The "meatspace" will earn the "weird" label, but the "mundane" will earn the "motherfucking asshole" label, and justifiably so.
At least he did not call them muggles.....
Re:step one (Score:5, Insightful)
ProTip:
The wierdos are often awesome in bed.
Re:step one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:step one (Score:5, Insightful)
"Meatspace" right when you're made out of meat. (Score:5, Interesting)
For one, if you're geeky enough to use the word in casual speech, you might well find people who freak out at such vocabulary to be tiresome, so using the term works as a kind of social self selection.
For two, read the wonderful short story, They're Made out of Meat [terrybisson.com]. Choice quote:
Cheers,
Really? (Score:5, Funny)
You could start by not ASKING SLASHDOT...
Was Slashdot This Fucking Lame 10 Years Ago? (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps it has been so long that it just seems like Slashdot use to be an actual site you could turn to every day and read a nice cross section of laypeople and industry experts discussing interesting technology topics.
Can't all these inane 'Ask Slashdot' - aka Please Give Me Attention!!! articles be done away with?
Just. Fucking. Google. It.
Re:Was Slashdot This Fucking Lame 10 Years Ago? (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, it was always this lame. The signal to noise ratio may have dipped slightly, the interface has gotten shittier, and many of us have gotten older and more crotchety, but it was never as cerebral as people like to remember it. Even now, the level of discourse here is quite a bit above most sites that allow comments. The only thing that's really sunk significantly is the quality of the trolls.
Re:Was Slashdot This Fucking Lame 10 Years Ago? (Score:5, Funny)
Well you can't blame me. I at least feed em around here. Where are the other Slashdotters when it comes time to feed them? Walk them? Slap their little noses with rolled up posts when they get out of line??
Well?
It's a joint responsibility people....
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of those things that a nerd can't ask normal people and get an answer worth two cents.
Ask a normal person how to be social and they'll list a million things that the nerd can't do/doesn't understand/won't get the nerve to go through with. Ask a slashdotter, and while the advice may not be so great, at least the nerd should be capable of doing it.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is one of those things that a nerd can't ask normal people and get an answer worth two cents.
Ugh, I hear that. I had this conversation when I was at a party and someone asked me why I was single. I let them know I don't go out much and I generally just don't intrude into people's life by imposing myself. I was told to go to church (I'm atheist) or online dating. It's like shopping for humans to me. The women get virtually prettied up and try to portray their better side and sit back waiting for a guy to hit on them. Nothing is different but the location.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, yes, it's Slashdot and supposedly the blind leading the blind on this question. r-d-r-r. I get it. But I've been enjoying this site for a full decade now (late 20s) and I find that whenever these sorts of non-tech/science questions come up, the responses are often some of the most highly thoughtful and interesting on offer. So as long as we're all here and considering justshootme's question of "where do you meet fellow geeks -- preferably including some of the opposite gender", I would like to ask about fellow geeks interested in meeting the SAME gender for said purposes implied in the original question. I find that this exceptionally difficult, as there are very few other gay dudes willing to tolerate discussions about supersymmetry or the history of thermodynamics or mediaeval history for more than a few milliseconds at most. Should I resign myself to the fact that my demographic is simply to narrow and settle? I am beginning to think so.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
> Why are enjoying science and gay sex mutually exclusive?
They aren't. It's just that you're applying two very selective filters at once, so few people are going to make it to the output stage.
Think about it this way: How many people care about your research? A few hundred? A few thousand? There's your first narrow filter.
Then you need one who is a homosexual male -- just for the sake of argument let's put that at 10% of the population, and assume your profession has a typical demographic. Even assuming your field is 80% male (the numbers don't change much even if it's 100% male), that means you just eliminated 92% of that few hundred or few thousand. At best you now have a few hundred candidates.
Then add in a filter you probably didn't consider -- they have to be close enough to actually meet and have sex with, and they have to speak at least fluent one language in common with you (you won't be able to talk shop in a pidgin dialect). Long distance relationships suck. Unless you are in a major hub location for your field, you can probably count the remaining candidates on one hand (in binary).
I think your best bet would be to apply the narrowest filter first -- start hanging out with people who care about asymmetric catalysis organic chemistry. Although most of them won't be interested, I know I (as a straight male) would have no objections to setting up two gay friends or acquaintances if I thought they'd like each other. I've done it before.
If it turns out my dating version of the Drake equation proves horribly wrong and there are millions of such candidates out there, then invoke Rule 34 and get rich. Or as George Carlin put it, "nail together two things that have never been nailed together before, and some shmuck will buy it."
Mal-2
Re:Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Agreed. Asking this question on Slashdot is like asking Helen Keller if your socks match.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Agreed. Asking this question on Slashdot is like asking Helen Keller if your socks match.
Which works OK if your matching criteria are size and material. I don't think he's asking how to get to the interstate from here in Boston, he's asking how to get out of the garage.
CL (Score:5, Funny)
Re:CL (Score:5, Informative)
Try this little experiment:
There are scant few real women trying to find relationships there...unless you're looking for the paying kind, or the old (read, 50+) hopeless romantic.
Re:CL (Score:5, Funny)
Contrary to popular belief, CL is probably 99% scammers, bots, and hookers.
I'm married to a scam-bot hooker, you insensitive clod!
Learn to dance (Score:5, Interesting)
Go to a dance instructor. You've got the money. Pay for lessons. Then go to group dance lessons. Meet people there and then get groups going to dance clubs.
All your problems will disappear.
Unless you're a girl. All the above assumes you're a boy. You're a boy, right? OK, then go learn to dance.
Re:Learn to dance (Score:5, Funny)
International singles clubs, also.
Here in Silicon Valley, I met a lot of interesting women. Foreigners don't know you are a geek, they appreciate guys with a good salary, career prospects.
You learn all sorts of things, e.g. I met Dr. Wang, learned that she was a dentist. Observed that she had perfect teeth. Realized ALL dentists I had ever met had perfect teeth, form, fit and function. Decided my next girl-friend had to be a gynecologist.
Finally married a Russian. We fight about things I could never have conceived of previously, so life is not boring.
Re:Learn to dance (Score:5, Funny)
Finally married a Russian. We fought about things I could never have conceived of previously, so life was not boring.
Past tense, Hans, past tense amigo.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, learn to dance. No, I didn't meet my wife dancing, I met her online, but she has taken me dancing and the girl to guy ratio is like 10:1.
Re:Learn to dance (Score:4, Insightful)
That sounds like a bad idea. Not so much the dance classes, but actually meeting someone there. If you can't talk to chick drunk in a bar, no way you're going to strike up a conversation during dance lessons that will work out for you.
Here's what worked for me: find a cause, and volunteer. I got involved with Special Olympics, myself. Plenty of volunteer opportunities, and lots of rewards regardless of whether you meet anyone or not (but - you will). Just find something you can support. Local animal shelters are always looking for help. You can find soup kitchens and food banks, too, if you're into that, but less prospects for decent social interaction. Lots of community organizations get involved with fundraisers that involve beer trucks and bands - lots of opportunities there.
Re:Learn to dance (Score:4, Insightful)
Go to a dance instructor. You've got the money. Pay for lessons. Then go to group dance lessons. Meet people there and then get groups going to dance clubs.
All your problems will disappear.
I have to confirm that this is a really good idea. As the very least you will learn to be comfortable around girls. *Attractive* girls, since this is the kind of girls that mostly go to the dancing lessons. Most unattractive girls are to shy to do that. This ability alone can help you dramatically. There is a downside, though: most of the girls will be married or in the LTR, because... well, first because all attractive girls are :) You have to learn to ignore that. Second, because were they not married they wouldn't be hanging out on dancing lessons, they would go some place where they can meet single men.
Also, you have to hang out with guys too, make a lot of new male friends. When you do that, follow the most valuable advice of social life I ever got in my life: say "yes" to every invitation. In a matter of weeks, you'll be choosing, which girl to hang out with.
Re:Learn to dance (Score:5, Insightful)
I cannot agree more. LEARN TO DANCE, and have fun at it. You don't need a partner to take lessons, but you may enjoy group classes.
1) Many are beginners, just like you.
2) It can be a real challenge, if (like me) you feel like you have no sense of rhythm.
3) As you learn, you will get more confident.
Later on, you will be able to be at ANY party, any formal gathering, any wedding, company dinner, or WHATEVER, and be able to dance. You will hear a waltz, a tango, some swing, or the like, and be able to ask a lady to dance with you -- and KNOW that you know the dance. You will be able to lead, and probably dance better than anyone else at the party (because how many guys takes dance lessons??) Think of it like DDR, but the way you increase your score is by making your partner look awesome.
Having the confidence to know that you rock at something can let you feel much less intimidated. Just as presenting about your awesome code or awesome geeky accomplishment isn't so hard, you can similarly be willing to talk or demonstrate about dance. It's quite cool. I wish I had actually taken more lessons than the ones before my wedding. ;)
Re:Learn to dance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Learn to dance (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't matter. Ladies will appreciate that you're making an effort and the fact that you're clueless makes you harmless (i.e. approachable and not-a-threat should you approach them). As long as you don't get embarrassed and act confident and persistent while stumbling forward, it can actually work in your favor. Some nice girl may even offer to help out as long as you're not just cursing yourself and getting frustrated.
Worth a try no matter what. Better to strike out than be the ball boy stuck polishing the bat.
Here are some ideas... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm effectively agnostic, hardly ever read the Bible but can still spot an obvious confidence trick.
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:5, Informative)
Thankfully, the Unitarian Universalist churches don't require you to believe anything about Jesus except that either he (or whoever made up what he said) had some pretty good ideas about how to treat people. They tend to be very inclusive of atheists as well as theists of all stripes.
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably an obligatory link, but... (Score:5, Informative)
How to be sexy by ESR (Score:5, Funny)
You really have to read this and have Google Images open elsewhere wtih pictures of ESR to appreciate the humour fully.
Re:Probably an obligatory link, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Eric Raymond's essay's are very informative, but this 'dating' business somewhere down the middle is where his agenda really shows up. What's all this nonsense about polyamory that strewn in the middle like some kind of enlightening testimony? Does he not realize that he is giving advice to try something most people consider absolutely disgusting?
One of the well-spoken skanks he supposedly interviewed is quoted to say that both partners have to 'work even harder' in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, no shit. Emotional dis-attachment requires extra work to pretend everything is OK? Wow, I'm sure we couldn't have figured that out on our own. And then she goes on to say that the pale, uninitiated geek like the one who posted this slashdot story, is supposed to try 'sexual relationships' to appreciate the difference between them and romantic relationships. Wow. Live, human subjects. You're supposed to degrade yourself to a lesser primate and do unspeakable things in order to educate yourself?
What a load of bull. These people, these outspoken veterans of the 'educated sex' scene, rarely lead happy lives with a partner. They hide themselves from society because they know they're plain weird, and they present their views online as if they are humanity's guiding light for successful relationships. The only truly content people practicing polyamory for any extended period have one thing in common: they SHUT UP about it, and they will tell you they do NOT recommend it to anyone at all. Normal relationships are a friggin pain in the ass, and these clowns are recommending that you go around screwing different people based on sexual desire and communal love, as long as you sit down and plan everything like some sort of big hiking trip?
I do not mean to be overly negative, but I have lived all over the world, in different cultures and among different races, and I love science. People who talk like this man are an insult to science, because they have no idea what they are saying. Who said jealousy was something to be overcome? It is to be controlled, not overcome. It evolved in the most basic animals for a reason, you know. I don't understand why the sexual urge is something to be encouraged while the other things we evolved to keep it in check should be taken out of the picture. If you want to sleep around, science is not going to make you look prettier. The feelings we have we ALL evolved, and are all useful, not just the ones you want to partake in. Our society is barely in one piece already you crazy idiots.
How can you look your partner in the eye and tell them you love them when she knows you may or may not have been trying to pick up her best friend, because you've both 'agreed' to it? How could she bury herself in your arms when tomorrow you could be in the arms of a complete stranger whose name you might not even know? How can a man trust a woman with his home and his children when she can be spreading her legs to pretty much anyone the very same day, because hey, you're both signing that contract? Sex is the urge to reproduce, and it is nothing else.
It is the urge to love and be loved that is very elaborate, and beautiful, and strange, and not necessarily linked to the reproductive cycle. Things that sound scientific and modern are not necessarily less disgusting than those that expose themselves to the barbarity of what they are in less elaborate terms. When you spread your legs, you are spreading your legs. When you bust a load, you bust a load. Sugar coating the terminology does not make it any more elegant or sophisticated.
Finally, before I quit the tirade for the night, I'd like to say that the most successful and most long lasting relationships across the world are the product of chance, just like the 'engineered' ones. You meet someone on the metro, or at school or at work or in the street. You think it will make a difference if you sleep with them first, or if you date for years, or you marry just 2 weeks later.. life experiences will show you it rarely matters. The 'primiti
Things I have found helpful (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That is something I've done, and to be honest, while the LUGs that I've attended (Simi/Conejo is the one I've attended on and off for the past few years) are great and I like the guys there a lot, there is not one female in the bunch. It's certainly a great launching ground and since I've moved to OC I need to find one here, but it's certainly not going to improve my chances of dating very much.
That said, it is certainly a good way to improve one's social life and I should probably get cracking on finding
meetup.com (Score:3, Informative)
Great way to connect with local people of like minds.
Get online! (Score:3, Funny)
The only place I actually enjoy shopping. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Relax (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Relax (Score:4, Insightful)
I see your point, but it's just how I talk. I did not spend any particular time or effort making that up. At one point I tried to simplify my talking and it just ended up being condescending.
Some things you have to change, they're not important to who you are, other things are important and you should keep.
Classic geek example, geeks can sometimes ignore personal hygiene as unimportant or at least unimportant compared to the obsession of the moment. Being filthy hopefully isn't a core interest. That's the sort of thing you do something about. If you are intellectual, you may hold back on the geekiness when interacting with people at work, you don't strike up a conversation about the latest Linux distro, you don't insult people for liking pop television. But if you're interested in someone, feigning stupidity or feigning interest in things you cannot stand is lying to her and lying to yourself. That's not something to compromise on.
You said you're looking for a geek girl so at least you're not making the mistake of wanting the cheerleader when you have nothing in common with the cheerleader.
You have the right idea that you need to increase social interactions and increase contact in the right circles. The question is where and how. Some people live in good cities for this kind of thing, others don't. If you can surround yourself with like-minded people or simply compatible people, the law of averages says you should meet someone.
The thing to remember is you can't win them all. Not everyone will like you. But it's good to develop faking skills as a social lubrication. The jerk you have to work with on a project, learn to fake enjoyment or at least suppress your disgust, it'll make life easier, not rocking the boat. It only makes you a jerk if you do this sort of thing to ingratiate yourself to someone to get something out of them.
outdoors (Score:4, Insightful)
Take up an outdoor sport.
If you can find something that you like to do you will meet other people who like the same thing and friendships will develop. I met a future girlfriend while mountain biking...
Re:outdoors (Score:5, Funny)
I met a future girlfriend while mountain biking...
I think I know what you were trying to say (you met a girl while mountain biking who then later became your girlfriend) but the way you said it makes it sound like it was a time traveling bicycle or you're some creepy guy stalking her trying to make her love you.
You could also start by... (Score:5, Funny)
Fellow geeks? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why limit yourself to geeks? I spent years at various Universities trying and failing to meet women and it wasn't until I started doing stuff outside of my normal group that I did. I took up figure skating of all things and met my future wife. Now you may ask why a red blooded male would take up figure skating. Same reason I did cookery at school. No red blooded male would do them so there were loads of females and no competition.
Get out, take up a social activity. A friend of mine in a similar situation took up dancing and ended up meeting lots of girls too.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I like how you think. There's something to be said for finding a niche.
Re:Fellow geeks? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've met quite a few gorgeous women in "non-geek" settings. They love that I'm smart and quirky, and I make a great living. It sells itself. Just be confident and find things you like to do socially, and the rest will work itself out.
I think the most important tip everyone seems to give here is to get out and about. No women likes a couch potato, even geek girls like to go out and show off their tail feathers. Besides, they gotta show you off and impress other women. Think of yourself like a Gucci bag. A cock shaped Gucci bag that knows complex mathematics and earns a paycheck.
What do you like to do? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some ideas:
If you're unafraid of your klutziness, join a dance troupe. Or a theatre group. You'd be surprised; most such organizations desperately need someone to do lighting and such, and are woefully ignorant of basics. So if you can wire a lightswitch, can follow a script, you can be a stagehand or a technical director.
Volunteer for trail building. OK, this only works if you're an outdoor person, but that's where the sort of women I like hang out. You can build a trail in a local park, get to work next to some really good looking women, and perhaps have something to talk about - especially if you can keep your mouth shut and listen to eco babble about salmon runs and invasive species.
Or....
Anyway, find an activity that's not a dating meatmarket. Someplace where your social awkwardness (if such exists) is irrelevant, where you're working toward a common goal, and pretty soon you'll find some fellow tree planter or trail builder or invasive-species puller is asking you to come out next weekend to do something else.
The whole idea is that if you set out to find "fellow geeks" you'll end up in a room full of guys with stilted conversations about geek stuff. If you set out to do something different, and are honest and accepting and funny about your ineptitude, you will meet some really cool people.
When in doubt, volunteer (Score:5, Insightful)
The need is huge, the hands very limited, and the job has awesome fringe benefits: you like the person in the mirror and you work with some people who are willing to stop yakking long enough to actually help people.
Re:When in doubt, volunteer (Score:5, Funny)
Relationships for Geeks (Score:4, Informative)
I met my first serious girlfriend of 5 years on what used to be Yahoo Personals (I think it's still around or it's probably Match.com powered now).
My most recent (going on 3 years) girlfriend who I would consider my long term partner I met on Craigslist.org. I know it sounds lame but finding someone who was smart and shared at least a few similar interests is a challenge especially when your passion is technology.
Might be worth a try?
It takes time to get your posts right before you get responses. The best advice I can give if you try your hand at online dating is share a picture within an email or two, and make sure to meet up in person as opposed to developing a relationship via email first. People tend to be different when you meet them in person. Get out there and go on as many dates as you can. You'll find someone for you.
And people who make fun of you for trying are lonely and miserable and they are just projecting onto you because you're trying to correct your situation!
Good for you!
The Sims (Score:5, Funny)
If you try something and it fails, you can always reload from a previous saved game. If only real life were like that... "Wow, that didn't go over well. ctrl-z! ctrl-z!"
Just Give Up (Score:3, Informative)
What do you mean the situation is not tenable (i.e. maintainable). If you don't do anything, or if you do the wrong things, the situation will stay as it is---maintaining the status quo is easy as pie.
As to why you should give up, the answer is roughly that you probably don't have anything to offer to women. Firstly, note that only about 40% of men reproduced [fsu.edu] compared to twice that percentage for women (as inferred from mitochondrial DNA), so you're in a man's normal condition.
For some contemporary evidence that women don't need most men, just look around to notice that in general women don't hit on men sexually. Often women will only have sex with men for the first time after large amounts of alchohol. There's no culture where women pursue men instead of vice versa, so this is not merely a fact about western culture. There's also plenty of chemical evidence (e.g. women get testosterone treatment to increase their sex drive).
In fact, scientific studies (tracking eye movements) show that both straight women and straight men are more turned on by a naked women than naked men (see Matt Ridley's The Red Queen [amazon.com] for a discussion).
Finally, studies usually find that married men are much happier than unmarried men, but married women are usually no happier once the financial contribution of the man is deducted (here [nytimes.com] for example). Furthermore, married men but not women live longer and are healthier.
So anyway, I can see why you want a woman, but in general that's usually a selfish decision for a guy. Why not come to terms with your condition and lead a meaningful life in another way?
God (Score:3, Funny)
Re:God (Score:5, Funny)
I find rum gives me the same ability :)
Join a sports club (Score:3, Insightful)
Join a (sports) club - the most common way to meet people. Real people. And don't worry if you're not that physically strong; join a cards or chess club or so: mind sports are also sports. As geek you probably have the brains for it. And especially when joining a mind sport club you have a good chance there are males and females playing together.
Meatspace? (Score:3, Funny)
Firstly, don't use terms like "meatspace" in, er, meatspace.
You want a friend? (Score:5, Funny)
Screw Up. A lot. (Score:5, Insightful)
Do stuff. (Score:3, Funny)
Flip on a TV. Watch some touchy-feely story and you'll inevitably see women doing all kinds of crap. Now, this is partly because the camera crew knows that they are easy on the eyes, but they're there.
If you're religious, even mildly, or even somewhat anti-religious, church is outstanding. Think about it from their point of view: making babies is the #1 means of recruitment.
If you like animals, you are set. Just go to your local animal shelter. If you're a little loopy, try PETA. Likewise, environmentalist groups are a dime a dozen and the less you know about the environment, the better.
If you're political, there are plenty of girls on both the right and left. I'd recommend sticking with campaigns for major candidates to avoid nutters, but if you're a nutter, go for it.
If you can teach _anything_ do that. People need job skills and fscking around with Office is a job skill. Volunteering at a local school is great; so many teachers are women that men actually benefit from affirmative action in the public school system.
If you can play an instrument, join a band. Avoid the drugs.
And even if you have absolutely no talent, you can always volunteer at a homeless shelter.
One caveat: go in with a plan. Say you'll stick with whatever you choose for a few months. If you don't meet anyone, try something else. Don't feel obligated to whoever you're volunteering with, and most of all, realize that wanting a relationship is a perfectly good reason to do this stuff.
Posting anon since my wife is a geek (Score:3, Interesting)
Wife #1: Took community college courses in tennis and volleyball when recovering from a motorcycle accident. Lots of single women there.
Wife #2: IRC
Another suggestion: volunteer for your favorite flavor of politics. And if not into politics, some other form of volunteering.
Patience.... (Score:4, Informative)
Umm, you don't perhaps want to give up now do you?
Still listening? Sigh! Biology has you by the balls, eh?
Ok. First off. Wash. Squeaky clean, shaved and no smells.
Next, practice. Practice on a captive chained wage slave.... I mean till operator.
Practice, being polite, nice, more interested in what they are interested in than in yourself, complimentary. You know that incredibly boring weather and hair stuff smalltalk (not the OOP language) you hate? Get over that and practice anyway. Not about tech, not about what's wrong with your life, but what the girl is saying, doing, thinking.
Be always squeaky clean and nice. The next step is tricky... you see, men deceive themselves that they can get the girls. It's the other way round. Human biology works the other way.
Men merely demonstrate that they at least have some capability of being molded into a domesticated breeding partner.... and then the girls take their pick.
Thereafter make yourself available. Place yourself in contexts where the opposite gender exist. Going to Linux meetings or motorbike meets is not what I mean. Church socials are an excellent place, visit married friends (with eligible friends and sisters), ...
Umm, let be a bit clearer.. Nature's course is some girl will attempt to mold you like putty. Change what you wear and how, what you eat, how you live, what you do etc. If you show you are (to the appropriate degree) pliable...AND more interested in what she is doing and saying than your tech.
She may decide you are marriagable material.
Still here? Sure you don't want a new netbook instead? Or perhaps an inflatable friend?
Sigh! Girls, they're the ultimate bait and switch.
And NO, you not having my wife, get your own. I may grumble, but I wouldn't swop her for anything. Not even a new motorbike.
Volunteer to be an IT geek at an elementary school (Score:5, Interesting)
My girlfriend is a 2nd grade teacher. She and all her co-workers are single, female, very intellectual, super educated (masters degree is required), and very hot. Can't meet anyone of the opposite sex at work? They can't either!
My solution (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.meetup.com/ [meetup.com]
I had the same problem as you, when my ex-girlfriend moved out; she'd managed to alienate literally everyone I'd previously ever known, including family members.
I joined a Meetup group about 18 months ago, and was eventually made Organizer. I host monthly groups, and out of a resident membership of around 100 people, I get regular attendance of close to a dozen people now. There are also Meetups for just about every possible kind of general interest you can think of, including some which are purely for random socialising.
Don't forget to pull the trigger. (Score:5, Informative)
There's lots of great advice in this thread about location, and tips on how not to freak someone else out.
But one thing to keep in mind, probably tip number 1 in my mind anyways, is once you've met someone interesting, don't forget to pull the trigger.
By this, I mean you have to act if you want to get anywhere. Don't worry too much about the consequences of said actions, and play it relaxed. So, if you see a lady you might be interested in, strike up a conversation. See if you can get 5 minutes of not-uncomfortable small talk. If you can get that far, maybe ask if she'd like to continue the conversation over coffee. Don't suggest coffee at a later date (but don't argue if that's what she counters with) -- just do it.
Commit yourself to coffee and nothing more. Do your best to convince yourself that the entire meeting ends once the cup is empty, and just focus on having a meaningful encounter for 20 or 30 minutes.
If things are going well, hint that it would be fun to meet up again sometime. If she agrees, ask for her number.
When you call her back, have something interesting that you'd like to suggest doing. Dinner is always safe, but make sure the restaurant matches the girl (eg. if during coffee she mentioned that she moved from the coast to Wisconsin, and misses Indian food, see if you can find somewhere with a wicked curry - don't, however, just book a dinner at a nice restaurant and assume that's OK). Better than dinner, try finding an activity, with a fixed start and stop time, that could be fun for both of you. Maybe there's a con or a concert in the park, or you and some friends are heading to the beach for an afternoon with a bar-b-q (note: this is only a good idea if there are other ladies coming, four dudes on an empty beach will be creepy).
If you think things are going well, and you feel a spark, initiate some kind of physical encounter. Start with casual touch (putting your hand on her shoulder, or on the small of her back), then move up to less casual from there. The more basic contact there is, the less creepy non-standard contact will seem. That is, if you kiss someone out of nowhere it will feel strange. If you have already been in physical contact, it's the next logical step. Also, this gives you a good way to assess how she's feeling. If she recoils in terror, you're probably not getting lucky tonight. If she's fine with it, or if she seems into it, awesome. Then, by all means, man up and kiss her when the time seems good. (But don't' wait too long or she'll get confused and think that you're her new gay knitting friend. You have intentions, let her know them.) A lot of geeks fool themselves into not acting on the physical side, by saying things like 'I'm respecting her boundaries by letting her pick the level of physicality...' Blah blah blah, most (not all) women are taught to not initiate things like a first kiss - they are supposed to flirt and encourage you to act, but not to actually do it. If you don't, you'll both end up waiting.
At this point, I leave the rest up to you.
OK, so this seems like pretty basic advice, but all of this is a specific counter to something that would block your standard socially awkward introvert:
- Not starting a conversation. (Just talk to her!)
- Not asking for a date. (Coffee is a date, but isn't scary.)
- Putting too much pressure on the first date. (You're just meeting someone, not assessing their potential as a life partner)
- Not calling her back. (Why do people ask for numbers they won't use?)
- Being over the top, or too generic in the second date. (Pick specific, interesting, encounters. And yes, your selection is a test.)
- Scared of physical encounter. (Touching is good.)
- Not getting past the friend barrier. (Once you are kissing someone, they have a good idea of where the relationship is going.)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
OK. It's a fair question. I intentionally left those details out because this is not a geek dating site (and it was not a geek dating question) and I really did want to dig up some generic answers to the question. But I'll answer it on this thread.
I'm 33, male, live in Orange County, CA. I'm a Linux systems engineer/administrator by trade, but I'm also a fairly good pianist/keyboardist, like making and hacking on electronic stuff, and have a rather odd interest in jets, trains, and abnormal weather. :-)
Re:Go and do what you love doing... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not a matter of where (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a world of socially awkward women desperate for someone to show some interest in them. Be confident, don't fear rejection, and make the women that show interest in you feel desirable and attractive.
Re:Be yourself ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how much of this thread is about action, and how little about traction. The Seligman video I watching this morning on TED discusses how psychiatry is devoted to getting people from -infinity (suicidal) to zero (empty, but not distressed); there hasn't been much study about how to get people from zero to something better.
A lot of the advice here is from the -infinity to zero camp: having none to having some. You could end up with someone you're not very well suited to, who doesn't really see you for who you are (see the "mold like putty" post), and with few emotional skills to make a relationship last more than three months.
Women have finely tuned sensors about men who are posing for effect. If a woman doesn't have this skill, she's nothing but trouble herself.
90% of success in relationships comes from listening skills, mostly of the non-verbal variety. The safest place to start an intimate conversation with a women you don't know very well is about her relationships: family members or close friends. If you have the knack of non-verbal communication, you'll pick up many small clues from body language during the rambling chit-chat. Note that most women tend to be peace-makers at heart, so if a chick is rambling endlessly about a relationship and your head is starting to spin from all the mindless detail (e.g. dress colour selection as a bridesmaid) there is usually some relationship tension hiding in there.
The next step is to engage the emotional clues you're getting with your own emotional content. It's hard to ask sensitive questions if you sound like you're filling out an insurance claim form. It works better to go "I was listening to you the other day and I started to get this feeling, so I started to wonder if there was more to your story." The first five words will catch most women off guard, the rest of it is fairly non-directive, and the woman will regard it as a small trophy that you, as a man, admit to having emotional responses. She'll want to affirm your bravery by telling more of the story.
Even if I pose this as a bit of gambit, you're best off being completely authentic. Note that this is hard, delicate work. Inauthenticity is a kind of lie, and lies become hard to remember.
If you're not insulting with your content, don't be too afraid of occasional conflict. Women tend to seek resolution, so you're almost certain to be given a chance to redeem yourself. At this point, be gentle, but act like you have a backbone. As much as women will try to mold you, they get cranky if they have too much success at this. At the end of the day, you can't rely on putty.
Women tend to be more straightforward about their emotions with their close friends than their romantic partners. Another detail it is important to bear in mind is that women experience the same range of emotions as men, including dark emotions of anger and hostility, but they tend to dress it up differently, and the rules are complicated about when this can be openly discussed (with some women, never, but these are not choice companions).
No matter how good you become with your communication skills, your biology is down there shuffling the deck, making things at the surface confusing as hell. Women tend to assume that if you're not confused by your emotions at some point, you aren't fully invested. A little bit of volatility proves you're alive. So don't be afraid once in a while to venture off script.
In the long run your sanity will be much improved if you reach the state of being where you can say "vive la différence" about all this heartache and really mean it.
The number one predictor of a successful romance is shared value systems, and the number one predictor of a successful long term relationship is emotional engagement. Eventually, even great sex becomes a matter of psychology and emotion, and for that, you need to find something in yourself worth sharing.