Mozilla Thunderbird 3 Released 272
supersloshy writes Today Mozilla released Thunderbird 3.
Many new features are available, including Tabs and enhanced search features, a message archive for emails you don't want to delete but still want to keep, Firefox 3's improved Add-ons Manager, Personas support, and many other improvements. Download here."
Tabs (Score:5, Insightful)
a message archive for emails you don't want to delete but still want to keep
Well that was cleverly written :)
But tabbed email sounds interesting. It makes text editors, web browsers and many other apps so much better and makes so much sense for email application that I'm thinking why didn't Thunderbird have it before.
One thing I would surely like to see in email clients however - the gmail like threaded conversation view. It's just so much better and nicer to use, but still many email applications tend to have the plain-list-of-messages view.
Re:Tabs (Score:5, Informative)
It's had that for ages
To view emails as conversation threads, go to View, Sort By, and choose Threaded, (Unthreaded to stop showing threads.)
Re:Tabs (Score:4, Informative)
yes, the only problem is that your replies do not show that way (unless it is a mailing list where you receive a copy of your own message). If there is some way to merge the Sent Folder with the threaded view using a search or some kind of virtual folder, please help us
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To solve the problem, I always BCC myself. Since my address goes to several destinations it's especially useful.
Re:Tabs (Score:4, Informative)
A similar but not quite the same choice is available.
When viewing a message, click "other actions" then "show in conversation"
Your replies are threaded in when viewing a message this way, but it opens in a new tab.
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If there is some way to merge the Sent Folder with the threaded view using a search or some kind of virtual folder, please help us
Simple: when you're finished reading emails, drag them to a new folder. Call it "All_Emails". Then, have all your sent emails stored in All_Emails. Viola! Instant message threads.
Heck, you can even have built-in message filter drop Inbox messages into All_Emails.
Conversation view != threads (Score:5, Informative)
Every single time I see this discussion, someone pipes up to say "but thunderbird DOES do threads!".
That it does. And that has absolutely no bearing on the discussion at hand.
Conversation view as provided by gmail gives you a single page for each entire conversation AND it inserts your replies online as appropriate.
There's several other features that make conversation view work so well, but you'll have to actually try gmail to understand what we are talking about.
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All that does is make your inbox a mess.
This thread reminds me of the instant-message type SMS text view on Palm Treo phones. No other phone that I have found does it the same way.
I've been using Thunderbird 3 pre-release for quite a while now and even 3.0 doesn't do it quite right. But, it is what it is. It beats the pants off Thunderbird 2. Now if only enigmail worked on Windows as well as it does in Linux....
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Does ANY client do gmail like conversation views? Zimbra didn't have it as of mid 2009. Does Horde have it? Anything?!
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That would have made more sense.
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In the spirit of slashdot, we present a car analogy.
This is like taking things out of the glove box and putting them in the trunk because you don't want to throw them away yet.
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So Actually it's like storing a pizza in the fridge rather than the bin.
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One thing I would surely like to see in email clients however - the gmail like threaded conversation view. It's just so much better and nicer to use, but still many email applications tend to have the plain-list-of-messages view.
I've been using Thunderbird 3 beta for a while, so I'm not sure if this feature is new to Thunderbird 3 or not (I suspect that it was in 2, not sure though), but you can read your email in a threaded view. In Thunderbird 3, on the column headers, there is a Thread View column to the
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Threaded view was available in 2.x, at least for Usenet. I suspect it was there for email as well.
Re:Tabs (Score:5, Informative)
Threaded view is not conversation view.
Re:Tabs (Score:4, Interesting)
Outlook 2010 has something pretty close to that, including reading in from multiple folders. It's not perfect, but it's miles ahead of what previous versions of Outlook and just about every other standalone client have (at least in Windows).
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Actually, I hate this particular "feature" of Outlook 2010 with a passion. The old-style representation of conversation thread as a tree rather than flat list is much easier to follow once you have more than two people in it (which is typical in a mailing list).
Re:Tabs (Score:5, Funny)
a message archive for emails you don't want to delete but still want to keep
What about for messages I don't want to keep but still want to delete? Does it handle those?
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I suppose so... but beware: it also adds every folder you have to the search index. Not a bad idea, except that it also adds the junk folder, in which I've been keeping an archive in order to train/retrain SpamAssassin... any idea how long it takes for the frigging index to scan through 50,000+ spam messages over IMAP?
Lost mail? (Score:2)
I'm more worried about the messages I want to keep but that it decides to blindly delete anyway when a folder goes over 2GB in size. Did they fix that bug yet? IMO any product that knows it has that serious a bug - for years - and does nothing is not trustworthy enough to use.
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To bad they still can't render pages correctly. I guess they do way better than IE though. I keep waiting for their long promised new rendering engine.
Re:Tabs (Score:4, Interesting)
Gmail "conversations" don't sound like they scale. (Score:2)
From another poster in this discussion [slashdot.org], it sounds like Gmail's conversation view is not threaded. One can mail a response with a different subject header and that email is still in the same thread (because threads are tracked by ordered lists of message-IDs, not the subject header). From what it sounds like, Gmail, sorts emails into "conversations" by subjects and date/timestamps.
So asking for Gmail-style conversations means giving up something quite valuable Thunderbird has provided for a long time (pos
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Seems threaded to me. Any of my mailing list e-mail is threaded by subject. Very useful. How else is it supposed to thread? It breaks down if the subject changes, but even in a group e-mail, the listing in my inbox is still one continuous thread. Having them all in chronological order (flat as you say) makes good sense to me. Actually g-mail has such a great interface (especially for a web application), that even using thunderbird 2 (which I used to love, along with eudora back in the day) seems like going
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Sometimes there are ... (Score:3, Funny)
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... slashdot story summaries i don't want to delete but still want to keep
Haha, yeah, I noticed that too. I'm pretty sure thunderbird has *always* had a solution for keeping things you don't want to delete!
-Taylor
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Haha, I had an idiocracy monent there
I hope they fixed searc in Win7... (Score:2)
I know it had a feature to integrate itself with search in Windows 7, but it was pretty broken in the beta. I hope it's fixed now.
I blame the cold weather (Score:5, Funny)
because hell just froze over. First we get Chrome for Linux, then Thunderbird 3. What next, Duke Nukem Forever?
Re:I blame the cold weather (Score:5, Funny)
Side note: does anyone else think it's suspicious that both Chrome for Linux and Thunderbird 3 just happen to have been released on the same day that Wired started taking submissions for their vaporware of the year article?
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Rest assured we are still waiting for Black Mesa [blackmesasource.com]. The vaporware list will be long and healthy this year.
Re:I blame the cold weather (Score:4, Interesting)
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A big step up from TB 2 for linux (Score:5, Informative)
I've been using Thunderbird 3 in beta for the last few months on an ubuntu system. TB 3 doesn't look dramatically different than TB 2, but the performance difference is *enormous*. TB 2 would crash frequently, it would periodically use all resources while it did heaven knows what, and Gmail IMAP was a disaster.
TB 3 is responsive, hardly ever crashes (perhaps twice in 3 months), search is *way* improved, and it finally feels like first-rate software. My hat is off to the Thunderbird team.
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TB2 never crashed on me. not once. I've got 10 account, gigs of mail, calender extension being populated from web services and lots of rules.
What were you doing to make it crash all the time!
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You running on Ubuntu? It was fine for me under XP, but the linux version was terrible. That's why I emphasized Linux in my subject.
If you are running Linux, I'm impressed :-)
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I've been running TB 2 for linux for years with no crashing, resource hog problems, etc. as you say you had... there must have been something strange with your setup. In fact, I'm at 108 days of uptime on this computer - a Thinkpad running opensuse - and Thunderbird has been open, sitting on desktop 2, for that entire time (that is, until I just upgraded to TB 3) with no problem, and like the other guy, I've got 6 accounts running with huge amounts of mail in each.
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Glad to hear it, as my problems were pretty extreme with a pretty vanilla setup. At the same time, it was definitely the TB3 upgrade that fixed the problem. Must have been some weird combination of software.
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yes, ubuntu 8.04 but only using POP not imap and not with exchange. Maybe that is the difference.
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I'll second that TB2 has some problems, actually. I've used it for about three years now with an Exchange and gmail account, both IMAP, and Lightning for calendaring. By and large it does just fine, but every once in a while it just chokes and becomes unresponsive. It doesn't always recover very gracefully from connection problems, either. I really do like Thunderbird, and I haven't given much thought to using anything else, but even I wouldn't say it's problem-free. If the new release cleans up some o
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GMail IMAP still has problems though. I've been tracking it since the betas, and they haven't fixed the issues with checking folders for new mail. So, if you subscribe to the "All Mail" folder, you get a notification in your inbox and "All Mail." It basically ignores the checkbox right now for "check this folder for new mail" in the properties.
You could always unsubscribe to "all mail" but that kind of defeats the purpose of the new search and archive features.
I still like it overall, but the multiple no
Checking all folders for new mail with TB IMAP (Score:3, Informative)
Did you try setting mail.check_all_imap_folders_for_new to true?
For as long as I can remember I've read on people's blogs (Tinymail's initial implementor's blog [pvanhoof.be], for example) that GMail's IMAP has always been poor and that this is the fault of the implementor (Google), not the client. Van Hoof recommends Dovecot and Cyrus for IMAP service instead [pvanhoof.be], but to be sure, people are probably more attracted to Google's gratis service and large mail quota even if it means allowing Google to index all of your mail.
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Yeah, I dug around online for solutions and had this working in 2.0 reasonably well using mail.check_all_imap_folders_for_new.
I posted this question on mozillazine a few weeks ago and got some more information, including the bugs listed in bugzilla which are still unresolved. I probably should have included those before.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1615305 [mozillazine.org]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=496119 [mozilla.org]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=528009 [mozilla.org]
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It is definitely much better than TB2 on Windows and OSX too. Strangely, I still kind of prefer Postbox [postbox-inc.com] to Thunderbird even though it doesn't really add any features that I use, and I don't find it to be worth the purchase price. I guess it's a look and feel thing.
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That's good. But have they fixed the bug where TB would mysteriously swallow your address book? Last time I checked, the bug was already 3 years old, and no sign of the developers.
I mean. Is there a feature more important than not losing data?
Re:Low standards (Score:4, Insightful)
"hardly ever crashes (perhaps twice in 3 months), search is *way* improved, and it finally feels like first-rate software.".
The specific releases he is mentioning are beta. Standards for 'numbers of times crashing' are different. I am guessing, but the 'first rate software' quote may also be speaking of look and feel. Thunderbird was good, but lacked polish. I have not tried any of the 3 series, but I will now that it's golden
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In my opinion the general problems with the UI are not fixed. There may be improvements I'm not aware of.
RFC-822 compatible format message (Score:2)
Does this version get rid of or offer a way to disable the message that says: "The current command did not succeed. The mail server responded: The requested message could not be converted to RFC-822 compatible formate.." Thunderbird 2.0 seems like a bad choice for accessing Exchange (via IMAP) - is 3.0 any better?
Hopefully improved. (Score:5, Informative)
One of the early releases I downloaded had the amusing "feature" of downloading every message in the background - not just headers, full messages, with attachments. According to the bug report, this was intentional, so that your folders would be accessible without being connected to the network, but it never seemed to know where to stop. It was *constantly* and repeatedly downloading messages, and ate 40 some-odd gigs before I noticed it and went back to 2.
--riney
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Why the uber downloads (Score:3, Interesting)
(Note for those backwards people who still use POP: IMAP users normally download their message bodies on the fly.)
Sigh. Been using the beta for a couple of weeks, so I'm familiar with this download-everything behavior. This is not actually a new feature. What's changed is that it's enabled by default. Which is, I agree, pretty dumb.
Here's why they did this. This version has vastly improved searching (far and away, my favorite new feature) which doesn't work unless you have a local copy of the mailbox for in
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Account Settings/Offline & Disk Space controls this feature now. "Available for offline use" defaults to off, you have to toggle it on for all folders you want that behavior for.
vCard support yet? (Score:2)
Anyone check if it supports address cards yet?
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Not sure, but More Functions For Address Book [nic-nac-project.org] fixed that for me on TB 2.
Message Archive. (Score:2, Informative)
a message archive for emails you don’t want to delete but still want to keep
To be more specific, the message archive is for emails that you want to get rid of, but don't exactly want to delete. Like if you're in a mailing list and want to clean out your inbox, but you don't want to delete all of (or at least some of) your messages in that mailing list. It's basically just another way of organizing things. Sorry if I didn't make any sense before :\.
Tabs (Score:3, Interesting)
Ok, does anyone know how to turn off the tabs bar, or at least hide it when there is only one tab, like firefox does?
99% of the time I read my mail in the reading pane instead of popping open a new window, so the tabs bar is just sitting there with only one tab showing.
Plus pressing the write button opens a new window instead of a tab anyway...
Re:Tabs (Score:5, Informative)
Go to Options > Advanced, and click the Config Editor button.
Type hide in the Filter box to find the mail.tabs.autoHide preference.
Double-click on mail.tabs.autoHide to toggle the preference.
Cheers!
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Ok, does anyone know how to turn off the tabs bar, or at least hide it when there is only one tab, like firefox does?
In about:config, change mail.tabs.autoHide to true.
(Tools->Options...->Advanced->Config Editor...)
I personally wish you could disable tabs completely.
Great (Score:3, Informative)
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I had the same problem when installing the RC version. This add-on [mozilla.org] turns out to be very helpful while they don't manage to update lightning.
The problem I have now is with the update feature. Having installed RC2, do I need to download de full version? It doesn't seem to be able to update itself.
Re:Great (Score:5, Informative)
You should try one of these:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/nightly/latest-comm-1.9.1/ [mozilla.org]
I've found Lightning betas to be solid and have been using them for several months (I use GCalDaemon to sync with Google Calendar). I'd back up first just to be safe.
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You should try one of these:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/nightly/latest-comm-1.9.1/ [mozilla.org]
I've found Lightning betas to be solid and have been using them for several months (I use GCalDaemon to sync with Google Calendar). I'd back up first just to be safe.
Mod parent up. The Lightning calendar plugin team has been craking out bug fixes and is well on its way to releasing.
How Thunderbird has gotten this far without integrated calendaring (not just via plugin) I have no idea.
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The nightly for Lightning seems to work pretty good, though I've run into a couple of bugs. (ate one my calendars - fortunately I backup often!)
I've been using the beta for 3.0 for a while now, and one feature of 2.x that I liked that does not seem to be present is the ability to display a single message as HTML. I generally do email as plain text, but occasionally I will want to see the html version of a message. Having a single button to allow for that (and the associated pulling of remote images and su
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What has been working for me (no guarantees about the future!) is to use this exact path (for win32):
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/nightly/latest-comm-1.9.1/win32-xpi/ [mozilla.org]
Note the "latest-comm-1.9.1". If I use nightly/win32-xpi/ instead --- that's what seem like it *should* work --- the extension doesn't work. Go figure. All of this may change, I am not sure what the differences are in the different locations.
I know that this works because I just installed the release version of 3.0
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Thank you!
Does it matter all that much? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been a Thunderbird user for as long as it's been around (and before it was "Thunderbird"), and I thought I would be one forever. Even once I started using Gmail for my personal email, I thought I'd need Thunderbird for my work stuff. But, you know, the university started offering hosted Gmail, and I decided to try it... and, months later, I don't miss T-bird at all.
Thing is, I was one of the hold-outs. While quite a few staff and faculty here are still on desktop email, almost all of our students have preferred web mail for quite a few years now - even when the only web-based option was that gosh-awful "Webpine" (Hey! Here's a great idea! Let's use our awful, counter-intuitive, ugly Pine command line program as a design template for a new web-based email client!). So I wonder for how much longer any desktop email programs will even be considered relevant.
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Well, to be fair, pine was the best thing around for a long time. I used to like eudora on my mac back in the day, but pine was pretty great too. I pretty much used pine and mutt for years until I started using gmail. Web mail used to suck in a lot of ways until gmail came out. I think a yahoo account only had a 5 megabyte limit or so at the time. 1gig was incredibly large and the interface is still better than anything else. Even the classic html only version is decent and certainly lightweight. Gmail is e
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I personally prefer to know that I have a copy of my own emails stored on a computer that I control. Sure google is good at what they do and all and they are not evil, but server foul ups happen. It is also nice for when my laptop is not connected to the internet.
Web apps also have some usability issues: no right click, usually less good keyboard shortcuts and/or clashes with browser. They loose screen real estate that the browser takes up. A tab within can't be easily alt tabbed to. There are not as
Re:Does it matter all that much? (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny, I switched *away* from in the web-based GMail client, opting for Evolution (mainly because of it's calendar integration). Why? Well, I wanted to access my personal and work email through the same client. But, of course, I'm not gonna forward my work email to GMail. So the only solution available was to use an IMAP client, through which I now access both my work and gmail accounts.
So, no, desktop clients are alive and well, and probably always will be, thanks to corporations and individuals who choose to run their own email services (Microsoft Exchange in particular).
Lightning.... (Score:5, Interesting)
That seems quite an important extension - any idea when (or if) it will be supported by TB3?
To me, it seems like an error of judgement to mainstream release a new version when key addons have not been satisfactorily updated. For the likes of Lightening, it isn't just eye-candy... and, for many, I suspect, breaking existing (addon) functionality will be unacceptable.
That said, I'm looking forward to 'conversation' view - and I've craved an improved address book for years... though what I saw when I last took a peek at the Beta wasn't much better than in TB2.
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That seems quite an important extension - any idea when (or if) it will be supported by TB3?
Try the lightning nightly builds. It worked with TB3 beta.
Lightning (and Sunbird) status... (Score:5, Informative)
Lightning isn't ready yet, it's 1.0 release is lagging behind TB 3.0. You can use the current nightly builds and they should work with Thunderbird 3. They're marked as Lightning 1.0B1pre. You can grab a nightly here:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning/download.html#nightly [mozilla.org]
They said they're basically at 1.0 Beta 1 Release Candidate status and hope to have the official 1.0 Beta 1 release out within a couple weeks, at least according to the Mozilla Calendar blog. Details are in the Mozilla Calendar Blog (currently offline):
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/ [mozillazine.org]
We're going to stick with recommending Thunderbird 2.0 for a little bit on PortableApps.com because Lightning isn't ready, and it is (arguably) the most important Thunderbird extension. And recommending nightlies to regular users is a bad idea.
Re:Lightning (and Sunbird) status... (Score:5, Funny)
That's life doing the bleeding edge fandango - Thunderbird and Lightning - very very frightening.
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I can't find any info on recent Lightning work (aside from the fact that the nightlies [mozilla.org] are still being pumped out) ... the developer blog [mozillazine.org] is offline (is mozillazine dead? their front page [mozillazine.org] last speaks from June 2009...), and the Mozilla Calendar development roadmap [mozilla.org] was last updated about year ago.
Nevertheless, the roadmap's stated plan is to release Lightning 1.0 shortly after Thunderbird 3.0 ... no idea if that's still on track. If I recall correctly, the calendaring portion was so side-tracked that the
Have they fixed the data loss bugs? (Score:2)
The first thing I want from a new version of Thunderbird is fixing the data loss bugs, because right now I'm on the point of moving to another e-mail client.
(For the uninitiated, Thunderbird can literally nuke your e-mails without trace under some circumstances, such as if you move it from one folder to another. This is not just the old problems with the silly approach to indexing and "compacting", this is an actual, irretrievable, without-warning, 100% data loss. That's just not acceptable in this kind of
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Thunderbird can literally nuke your e-mails
Great, so Thunderbird has WMDs. Okay... so when are we invading Mozilla headquarters?
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Sorry, I realised the "literally" abuse just about two seconds after I posted the comment. Mea culpa.
Obviously the "literally" was intended to apply to the "without trace", not to the use of strategic weapons of any kind.
And what's with the weird interface changes going on today? Is it really too hard to test obviously broken things not on the live server? :-(
4GB limit and attachment handling? (Score:2)
Have they done something about the 4GB mailbox limit? Are they still living in the FAT32 world or whats the deal with that anyways?
What about automatically moving attachments out of the bloated mbox file and into their own directory? I know they have extensions to do this manually, but tedious tasks such as these are what computers are good at, it should be automatic, especially if they limit the size of a mailbox to something archaic like 4gb.
As much as I would like to use Thunderbird, these two things are
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I'm not sure how, since the FAQ for thunderbird clearly states 4GB is the limit [mozillazine.org] unless the file system limits it to something LOWER.
Its actually not a limit on a individual mailbox, its the limit on an entire mailbox folder!
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4GB is not huge at all, especially when you consider that it includes all the attachments too.
I currently have about 15GB of mail that I use with Claws Mail, which is nice but also lacking in many areas.
No .deb? (Score:2)
Why are none of the mozilla programs ever packaged for download?
Account Creator is a Pain (Score:2)
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You can just click Manual as you go through it. I found the automatic mode worked well in the different servers I set it up with. And it checks IMAP before POP for them (as most folks should be using IMAP these days anyway).
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Yeah, it looks like a race-condition. There's some sort of background task that tries to verify that the settings will work, but it doesn't grey out the UI boxes while it does that.
It works well enough if:
- You prefer IMAP
- Your account domain matches up with the mail server domain
But I could regularly get it confused.
They're already working on 3.0.
OSX: Some good, some bad (Score:2)
Good: Thunderbird 3 allows you to scroll widgets even when it doesn't have focus. This was something that always annoyed me with TB2. Also, TB3 says it has Spotlight integration although it seems that Spotlight hasn't yet deemed my mail boxes index-worthy. Maybe it only works for new mails.
Bad: Thunderbird 3 covers the entire screen when it starts up. There doesn't seem to be a way to get it to stop doing that.
Worth noting: If you use the "TB Chan
Download is a 404 Thunderbird (3.0) in US-English (Score:2)
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/download/?product=thunderbird-3.0&os=linux&lang=en-US [mozillamessaging.com]
is a beauty. Then clicking Linux or - cough-cough - Windows, results in
Hmmm, we're having trouble finding that one.
No cigar. More of a brown bag.
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New quick search sucks big time (Score:3, Interesting)
Thunderbird 3 still has the search bar but results appear in a new tab. This tab does not show results as a list but in a fancy HTML based summary view. That's great if you were searching for a particular message but utterly useless for bulk operations. What if I want to drag and drop a few files around, or delete them or flag them as junk? Even as a summary view it is stupid since it only shows 10 results at a time with a More button at the bottom. FFS, stop mimicking an AJAX web application - the results are RIGHT THERE on the disk and you can certainly show more than 10 results at a time.
The workaround is to create a saved search but that's even more hassle for something that could be achieved in seconds in v2.0. So much for progress. I suggest if Thunderbird 3.1 turns up, they put an option or two in to control this behaviour and remember what the user has chosen. There is even a "save search as virtual folder" option in the quick search menu suggesting someone was thinking of doing something like this, it just appears to be inexplicably greyed out.
Thunderbird 3 has potential but it really feels like a regression in several important respects. It also inexplicably lacks things I would have expected to be improved. For example, you still can't select an email, and right mouse and create a filter from it. This is something that Outlook has had for donkey's years.
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Yea, who ever came up with that search "feature" seriously needs to be kicked in the head.
On the left hand side, when I see for example an email address similar to my search parameter my inclination is to click on that and expect on the right a complete list of of all similar email. Instead I get some limited half ass list, that might (might) be related to my search.
THE SEARCH SUCKS.
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bad for security, but agreed it would be ideal as a hard to find option.
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I personally monitor about a dozen mailboxes at work (IMAP shared mailboxes, project specific mailboxes, sysadmin type mailboxes that are shared via IMAP)...
It took me about a month to finally get comfortable with "smart folders". It was there in TB v2, but wasn't as prominent. Once I rearranged my folder structure a bit in the individual accounts, I'm actually quite happy with Smart Folders. I'm happy with all the inboxes clumped together at the top of the window.