Google Warning Gmail Users On Spying From China 215
Trailrunner7 writes "Google is using automated warnings to alert users of its Gmail messaging service about widespread attempts to access personal mail accounts from Internet addresses in China. The warnings may indicate wholesale spying by the Chinese government a year after the Google Aurora attacks, or simply random attacks. Victims include one leading privacy activist. Warnings appeared when users logged onto Gmail, encountering a red banner reading, 'Your account was recently accessed from China,' and providing a list of IP addresses used to access the account. Users were then encouraged to change their password immediately. Based on Twitter posts, there doesn't seem to be any pattern to the accounts that were accessed, though one target is a prominent privacy rights activist in the UK who has spoken out against the Chinese government's censorship of its citizens. A Google spokesman declined to comment on the latest warnings specifically. The company has been issuing similar warnings since March, when it introduced features to identify suspicious account activity."
I got this (Score:5, Informative)
I got the warning about being accessed from China. Unfortunately, it came 2 days after I became aware of my gmail account and World of Warcraft account both being compromised. By that time I had already changed the password, and had Blizzard restore my stuff.
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I don't know what happened, but I do remember when trying to paypal something, everything was Chinese. Luckly I was running Avast's VM service and everything reset when I closed my browser. It looks like it was redirecting my dns quirys. I also got hit with the gmail red banner too, but I suspect they were only able to access it because I was going though china using the cookie. Changed all my passwords in case though:P
I picked up a Mikrotek router for cheap and now I am blocking all of China's IP range
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Maybe some access controls would help (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's see - I have never been in China and don't plan to go in the near future - maybe if Google added a feature that allows me to CONTROL what countries I can access it from, it could alleviate a lot of this problem.
I'm sure those crafty hackers will find a way around it and divert through a US waypoint, but there's no need for my account to have broad access from countries I am never going to access it from.
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They'd just go through a US proxy... That's no help at all.
Security is a game of percentages (Score:3, Informative)
Going through a proxy (crowded, busy, high traffic, concentrated) makes hack attacks that much more difficult. From the defense standpoint, proxies may be known (lists of know proxies are widely available), detectable (reverse operations), or identifiable via patterns (large volumes of traffic or attack from a single or narrow IP band not otherwise known).
You do highlight the point, however, that patterns of behavior are what are critical. You want to see who's coming in, from what IP ranges, whether or
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They'd just go through a US proxy... That's no help at all.
Do you still lock your car doors even though a window is easy to smash?
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Funny because three weeks ago I had my GPS, not window-mounted mind you, walk away from my car. There's a pretty good possibility that I had left a door unlocked the night before. (The window was down enough to use a coat hanger to get in, so that's also a possibility.) I live in an area where this is rather unlikely to happen.. or at least you'd think so. Had my doors been locked and my windows been rolled up I wouldn't have lost it.
I hope you don't learn a lesson about it, but I think you will eventua
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Please allow me to provide an alternative summary of your statement: Though it certainly wouldn't do any good, why not respond by stripping innocent people of freedoms they now have?
What, sir, were you thinking when you wrote this?
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If I turn on the option to hide AC posters, Slashdot is stripping my freedoms? Really? Or it's stripping their freedoms to throw their comments into my brain?
I don't care if someone in China has the freedom to access my account, and I think your reading comprehension may have been on the fritz.
Re:Maybe some access controls would help (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's see - I have never been in China and don't plan to go in the near future - maybe if Google added a feature that allows me to CONTROL what countries I can access it from, it could alleviate a lot of this problem.
I'd rather have out-of-band notifications of access - kinda like the way some banks do for their credit card accounts.
For example - I'd like to get a text message everytime someone logs into my account and everytime some major change is made - like setting up an auto-forward or changing the password.
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Very interesting. Think weak backends to low cpu/backhaul rustbelt mobile tech is a leak?
If you use a strong pw, non Windows OS on a desktop with https are you safe vs some candy coloured web 2.0 mobile while on the move?
Be a fun experiment. Set up 100 random accounts, via Mac, Windows, Linux and then mobile or other non-secure clients. Wait and bring the stats back.
If the desktop ones are all
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Leveraging information (Score:2)
XKCD puts it well: http://xkcd.com/792/ [xkcd.com]
How often do you reuse passwords?
What financial or other control information transits your email account?
What blackmail or other information could be gained via your email account(s)?
I've utilized this myself in legal cases for fun and profit (lawful access to data, natch).
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Governments are virtually powerless outside their own boundaries.
I did not know that...
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I think the aim is CIA/NGO/faith backed dissidents both in China and around the world.
Any tech floating on open networks or hints to darknets, internal networks is fun too.
Just learning how google works internally, at what point https is used, how and where.
China does not want a digital version of Operation Shadow Circus that the CIA ran during the cold war.
This has my approval (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well-known privacy activist (Score:2)
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You like many are confused (Score:4, Informative)
Specifically you are confusing privacy and anonymity. Many geeks seem to think the right to privacy is the same as the right to remain anonymous and they aren't at all. The government has rules that there is a right to privacy implied in the Constitution, but they have never ruled there is a right to anonymity best that I know.
So what's the difference? Privacy means being able to shield what you are doing from others, if you choose. I currently have complete privacy. I am alone, in my home. That means what I am doing is not something anyone can find out, unless I let them. My actions and thoughts are as private as I wish them to be. However I'm not anonymous. Anyone who did even cursory (and fully legal) surveillance could determine what house is mine and that I am presently at home. I am in no way anonymous in my actions, just private.
The flipside of that would be a couple having sex in a park, wearing full face masks. They would have no privacy, but would have anonymity. There would be no doubt in anyone's mind what was going on if they looked over. However as to who was doing it, well that would be a mystery. The people doing it would be anonymous, but not private.
Of course you can easily find other situations that you have both or neither.
So as it applies to these activists that they are known doesn't mean they aren't successful at being private. They aren't anonymity activists, they are privacy activists. They advocate that you should be able to do things and not have the government (or others) spy on you. they are not advocating you should be unknown, a cipher to all.
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Happened to me... (Score:2)
Insensitive Clods (Score:5, Funny)
Solved problem? (Score:2)
Another statistic here.... (Score:2)
I was one such victim, but for me the hijacking occurred about two months ago. Lucky for me it wasn't used to send millions of malware-laden spam messages; only several dozen messages were sent (all in Chinese), and it didn't look like any attempt was made to filch information from my archives. Google did warn me at the time, and there have been no obvious consequences since I regained control of the account.
Hypocrites (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not worried about China, I'm worried about my own government spying on me with Google's cooperation.
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Oh don't point out that that could happen, otherwise you get modded as a troll.
Wrong. On the contrary, anti-U.S. government comments usually get some level of Insightful, and this time is no exception.
People in glass houses (Score:3, Insightful)
Or is that okay in free market halfassery?
No apparent pattern. (Score:2)
G should support FireGPG-like product (Score:2)
There's a really easy way google can mitigate a lot of these problems. They could cooperate a little bit with someone who wants to make a firefox plugin that would encrypt people's email.
I know that goes against their business model, which lets them use people's emails to tailor search results and target ads. And it would probably piss off a number of governments. But in reality, almost no one would actually take the trouble to encrypt their mail, and it would allow people who really needed the privacy t
Re:G should support FireGPG-like product (Score:5, Insightful)
How many non-CN gmail users ever use Gmail in CN? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't ever expect to use my Gmail from China.
I very rarely use my Gmail from anywhere outside the US.
I'd like to block ALL COUNTRIES from my Gmail, except the US. Then when I travel, I can add the country I am going to visit - for as long as I'm there.
Ideally, this function could tie in to my World Mate app on the BlackBerry - it knows when I am out of the country or not.
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not only all countries but my own, I would like to be able to whitelist to
- my work IP
- my home internet provider
and that's it, if I travel I can always stop restrictions temporarily, but there should be no reason why any location but the two above should be able to access my email account on a regular basis.
If Google wanted to make things simpler for users, you could also have the option to restrict by geolocation, given how good it is nowadays it should be trivial to say 'allow connections only from this
It's their own fault (Score:2)
When those anti-government activists use easy-to-guess passwords like "FreeTibet" and "FalunGong4evah", of course their Google accounts are going to get hacked...
Pretty Good Privacy? (Score:3, Informative)
There are GPG plugins for most e-mail clients. E.g. there's Enigmail for Thunderbird. People just need to use them.
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Yeah. Let me know when their use is simple enough for 95% of the populace to handle, and when Webmail access that is independent of the browser/computer they are using and isn't implemented at the ISP level is possible.
It's not so simple and clean-cut as you make it sound. If it's an extreme hassle to remain secure and/or private then most people won't bother until it becomes easier. And even then you have to get them to care without sounding paranoid.
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Yeah, China has human rights abuses and so does the US. There are people detained by US authorities who don't even have a fucking clue why they are detained because the US won't tell
What reality do you live in? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yea, except when China detains you they throw you in the Laogai (Chinese gulag - forced labor prison) and harvests your organs to sell to rich westerners whose children are dying of non-functioning organs for which there is normally a giant waiting list.
And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."
When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.
I hate to admit it, but I still love buying cheap crap from them, though.
I'm sort of afraid to post this comment now. *breathes deeply and pressing the submit button*
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Plus, we've got military instillation all over the world also operating with virtually zero oversight.
We've given money to support various military dictatorships, tried taking over numerous sovereign countries, etc. While we don't do many atrocities to people here at home, the "third world" is open game.
When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.
Only because there was a lot of press about it. Had this person
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debased our currency to worthlessness,
No, you did that to the whole world. Somehow, I don't think Nixon [wikipedia.org] will be remembered for Watergate in 50 years.
Re:What reality do you live in? (Score:4, Interesting)
China does atrocities from within their borders and doesn't maintain an illusion of freedom.
It depends on what kind of atrocities and freedom. If you are talking about violent crimes, living in China is generally much safer than in US. And Chinese law is sometimes intentionally ambiguous and if you are clever enough you'll have more freedom than you want.
The actual significant difference between China and the US, is Chinese officials are not elected. So the whole political games change.
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And Chinese law is sometimes intentionally ambiguous and if you are clever enough you'll have more freedom than you want.
Just so long as you don't criticize anyone in power.
And US elections using "voting machines" (Score:2)
So while there is a mock election, there is no way to know who really won. Probably the winner is whichever side has the best hackers. How is that any better or worse than China?
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What the hell? Those aren't American citizens who were being politically dissident. We're not executing them and selling their organs. Give me a break. You put the word terrorist in quotation marks as if the people there weren't captured in battle over in the Middle East. Because of our free press and critical watchdog groups, our prisons are probably the most monitored in th
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Sure would like to know about these students we've shot with rifles.
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I believe that's what the poster is referring to....
Re:What reality do you live in? (Score:5, Insightful)
The US might have not ran over any of its own college students with a tank, but in the third world during the cold war it funded dictatorships that suppressed dissent and killed dissenters.
Why is it that it is considered terrible that China would kill its own citizens but yet it apparently is a "troll" to point out that the US does it to citizens of other countries?
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Why is it that it is considered terrible that China would kill its own citizens but yet it apparently is a "troll" to point out that the US does it to citizens of other countries?
Its because people don't care about people in other countries, they think of themselves. And they hate to admit the wrong in their own conduct.
Ironically, the many chinese people I've known, while good intelligent people in other regards, seem to be remarkably bad at accepting criticism of Chinese actions, such as in relation to Tibet or the south china sea. I think that a significant reason China has been relatively benign internationally is they are cognizant of their internal challenges and weaknesses.
Re:What reality do you live in? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's a stupid point. Nobody in America is going to be driving over college students with tanks. You're taking the extreme, anti-American position because you think it makes you more insightful and intellectual while ignoring the fact that your ability to even post criticism of your country in the first place is proof that America is completely different from China.
Because you claimed America is putting people into forced labor prisons and selling their organs, and you didn't cite a single example for any of your claims. You also completely gloss over the actions and motivations during the Cold War. It's just the same, generic anti-American drivel you can find on someone's LiveJournal above anarchist gifs and Hugo Chavez quotes.
Um: “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming,& (Score:2)
Re:Um: “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s comin (Score:2)
See how you're able to talk about those events, write books and songs about them, and view photographs? Those isolated incidents are views as public black marks on American history and are not standard operating policy, nor are they hidden by the government. In fact, many politicians have ridden to office on their outspoken criticisms of America's past.
Thats because hes under surveillance most likely. (Score:2)
See how you're able to talk about those events, write books and songs about them, and view photographs? Those isolated incidents are views as public black marks on American history and are not standard operating policy, nor are they hidden by the government. In fact, many politicians have ridden to office on their outspoken criticisms of America's past.
The only reason the US government allows him to talk about it is because the FBI is probably tapping his phone and watching his every move. China might not be as efficient at spying on it's citizens but the USA is efficient enough to do it and if people speak out then they just watch you even more closely.
Re:What reality do you live in? (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy who was hit by the tank chose to stand in front of it. The students who were shot were unarmed protesters and bystanders.
Tank Man was not run over. He stopped a column of tanks. The soldier in that tank did not want to run over a civilian in cold blood.
The difference between China and the United States is that in China you can't search for Tiananmen Square and find out about the 1989 protest. You won't find a popular song about it. The Kent State shootings are an acknowledged black mark in United States history.
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There are people who have legitimate criticisms of America and people who are critical of America in order to feel smart. The latter will completely ignore your point. The very fact that they're even able to voice criticism of America, in contrast
The USA lets you speak and then arrests you later. (Score:2)
China won't let you speak at all. Honestly what difference does it make? Or did you not hear about the raids on anti war protesters around the country? Or have you not heard about Cointel Pro?
The USA has no moral high ground over any other developed nation. The moral high ground was lost when the USA started torturing people.
The USA will ban Alex Jones soon. (Score:2)
And then you won't be able to search for conspiracy theories in the USA. It's really no different from China in terms of how government acts. All modern governments generally act the same. Yes North Korea may be the exception, but capitalist governments generally are similar.
Individuals don't matter anymore in any government that I know of. You are either a tax payer or a consumer.
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1.) That was an isolated incident 40 fucking years ago. America isn't routinely silencing dissenters. We have the biggest number of whining, complaining people in the world.
2.) The media covered the incident and provided photographs, and protests occurred around the country. There was no coverup.
3.) The national guardsman were indicted by a grand jury. America punished them for their actions and made sure it wouldn't happen again..
All of these things are completely different from China. Your comment about m
Here is proof that you are wrong or stupid. (Score:2)
While you are hyping the "freedoms" of the USA, the FBI is busy raiding US citizens.
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/feds-raid-homes-in-chicago-minnesota-in-terror-probe-20100924 [myfoxchicago.com]
Theres a time to defend the US government, this isn't the time. Morally the US government cannot be defended. In fact morality and government don't even belong in the same sentence. Governments fight and win wars, if you want morality go to church.
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It is a state militia. In that case called in by the governor, not the president. The feds "endorsed" it by not pressing charges
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Your entire argument is based on an isolated incident 40 years ago that the media covered extensively, people protested across the nation, and you're still able to discuss to this day. How is it like China again?
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And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."
You have exactly the same mentality as the western media, that is to over simplifiy things in China and portray them in a stereotype as irrational lunatic. Believe it or not, some people do the same to the west.
Take the latest political opponent, Liu Xiaobo, as an example. From western media it looked like he was sent to jail for nothing serious. It turned out he was circulating a letter for signatures, calling for the establishment of a new country with a new name. That is a crime by Chinese law. Now I am
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Link for further info?
Even if EXACTLY what you claim is true and even if it's not just propaganda created by the Chinese Government, you think a decade of imprisonment is fair punishment?
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I found that info in Chinese. He wanted to create some kind of federation between mainland China and Taiwan. This view is actually quite popular among some circles but the people in power definitely would want none of that. And personally I do think a revolution might make thing worse and reform is preferred.
As to a fair punishment, I'd think people should have freedom of speech without punishment. But I am not an expert in law. I do remember in the movie Red, someone was asking something like "Are you agre
Re:What reality do you live in? (Score:4, Informative)
In the United States it is illegal to plan to (or attempt to) overthrow the government by force or with violence.
Passing around a petition saying "I support breaking up the United States" is not a crime. Running for congress and saying "I would vote to breakup the United States" is not a crime. Attacking with force Fort Sumter -- crime! It's not perfect, I'd probably like more anti-government actions to be completely protected, but it is what it is.
Bottom line is the the Chinese party line on basic freedoms (like freedom of speech) and the typical American or European view on such things are worlds apart different. Some people like to put these down to thousands of years of history with such theories as Wittfogel's hydrolic Empires -- "Orientals like rules because they are used to them from thousands of years of absolute rule from above." I don't buy that. American and European views on freedom of speech are very different too. Witness the Brits who are in trouble for burning Qur'ans, the illegality of certain types of clothing in France and Germany, religious freedom differences, great differences on offensive speech, etc.
One thing that North American and Europeans are almost united on though is that political dissenters should be allowed and protected. Doesn't mean dissenters always get an easy or free ride, but the Chinese model is very abhorrent to many.
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Passing around a petition saying "I support breaking up the United States"
No, he appeared to the organizer and it seems from Wikipedia they were also writing Charters and compared themselves to other movements in Chinese history.
I think I know the difference you are talking about, but I also know the political reality of China, especially from a historical perspective. China didn't have a good model of its own, that why it adopted communism. And that didn't work out well. So it quickly switch to capitalism. Do you know who seemed to admire the founding fathers of the USA the most
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No, he appeared to the organizer and it seems from Wikipedia they were also writing Charters and compared themselves to other movements in Chinese history.
But the point is, the very worst thing you've accused this man of doing is passing around some letters, suggesting the government of China should change/enter a federation with Taiwan, and "being an organizer." No mention of violence. No mention of force. No mention of civil disobedience. Etc.
To your average European or North American, being jailed for over a decade for such things is really quite shocking!
Now the communists are in power and they are extremely wary about anybody else play the same game against them. The communist party itself actually wanted to introduce more liberal values, but they are afraid of their opponents taking advantage of it and losing their power.
Agreed. This is very much the problem with such systems of government. This is EXACTLY what F.A. Hayek
What happened to the black panthers? (Score:2)
They got jailed for doing something similar. In fact it was exactly the same kind of thing, only slightly more organized and a bit more vocal.
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You have exactly the same mentality as the western media, that is to over simplifiy things in China and portray them in a stereotype as irrational lunatic. Believe it or not, some people do the same to the west.
Irrational lunatic? Not really. Power-hungry authoritarianism? Possibly...
Take the latest political opponent, Liu Xiaobo, as an example. From western media it looked like he was sent to jail for nothing serious. It turned out he was circulating a letter for signatures, calling for the establishment of a new country with a new name. That is a crime by Chinese law. Now I am not defending Chinese law here but I just wanted to point out things are more complicated than you think, including the "cheap crap" you love to hate.
If you mean the Charter 08 [wikipedia.org], it may be a "crime" by Chinese law, but that's the whole point: Is the Chinese government stable enough to allow its own citizens to debate and discuss the state of their country openly? Is it mature enough to allow criticism of itself and its activities? To allow public consultations of its policies? In a nutshell, will they allow the people whom they claim to represent, discuss their own performance?
Say w
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If you mean the Charter 08 [wikipedia.org]
I don't understand why they wrote these to call out the government. As I said in other threads, the Chinese government has actually considered introducing more liberal values but this kind of dramatic moves actually makes it look like they might be doing it because they were told to do so.
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Oh, so he did do something serious? I can't wait for you to tell me!
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Back to the article, there isn't any pattern, my account got hacked too (my facebook account got hacked at the same time, but that was from an IP in South Korea).
Google (and others) should add a feature to allow me to restrict the IPs that can access my account. I'm nev
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Same story in the US. No "enemy combatants" are given a fair trial. They're also tortured, or thrown into a prison and humiliated sexually. (i.e. abu ghraib)
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Yea, except when China detains you they throw you in the Laogai (Chinese gulag - forced labor prison) and harvests your organs to sell to rich westerners whose children are dying of non-functioning organs for which there is normally a giant waiting list.
And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."
When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.
I hate to admit it, but I still love buying cheap crap from them, though.
I'm sort of afraid to post this comment now. *breathes deeply and pressing the submit button*
Your country has been kidnapping people around the world, and organized torture (and since it didn't happen in the US, it's okay, right)?
You're no different than China. I don't like either of you.
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Your country has been kidnapping people around the world, and organized torture (and since it didn't happen in the US, it's okay, right)?
You're no different than China. I don't like either of you.
Except, that with the US, the vast majority of trials have been open, and relatively free and fair. You don't have people held incommunicado for trying to exercise their right to free speech.
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Yeah, China has human rights abuses and so does the US. There are people detained by US authorities who don't even have a fucking clue why they are detained because the US won't tell them!
Please point to a case where this has happened in modern US history, as this is a very clear violation of our sixth amendment in the Bill of Rights.
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Wait, is that the Supreme Court of the United States?
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They're just being modest. Obviously, it's really the Supreme Court of the World, and if you don't acknowledge that, well, you're either with Us or with The Terrorists.
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This idea that China is a super-villain and the US is a superhero is based off of myth, nationalism and ignorance, we are no better than the Chinese.
May I suggest that this belief that there are significant people who believe in your hyperbolized dichotomy is also a myth. I'm confident the majority of people in the US see it as a flawed country but on the who
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Why is it when the US is criticized, responses in the vein of "other countries do it too" is unacceptable and often labeled troll, yet when a different country is under the radar, responses in the vein of "the US does it too" is the first and greatest comeback, and in this case labeled "Insightful"?
Because the US has presented itself as a moral high ground and example for the rest of the world, or tried to. When the role model does wrong excuses don't fly.
Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not American or even European btw.
Given the recent situation with Japan, I don't know how else to see China.
Vietnam have been complaining about China's bully tactics for a while now, it's just that no one paid attention.
China has been gaining a lot of power, the US might not even be able to restraint them any more.
Frankly it scares me.
I hate to say this but the moron Bush might actually be right, China has to be contained.
If I could turn back time and somehow stop China from joining the WTO I would.
As for the US, the things you guys do in the middle east is one hell of a clusterfuck.
But I don't know.
I think would rather live under the thumb of the US government than the PRC.
From my point of view, maybe it's because I'm from a country friendly towards the US, US in general have been relatively benevolent "rulers" in comparison to what China could be capable of.
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And the subjects that are not good? Well, just wait till father gets home.
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And guess what forced Japan to release the the captain? Obama told Japan to stop playing game, not China.
I think it was because China detained four Japanese. In the 1930s, that's give Japan the excuse to invade China. Not any more.
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It does. That's how the people found out in the first place.
http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?ctx=gmail&answer=45938 [google.com]
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It looks for abnormal activity. If you register in China and use it from China, the warning probably reads 'Your account was recently accessed from the USA'
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They may not be doing, this could be a simple Joe Job [wikipedia.org] case. They scrape your email address from somewhere, then send out a ton of mail using your address as the Reply To. They don't need any password to do this - check your 'sent' folder, did you really send those messages or is it just claiming you did in the Reply To?
There's very little you can do about this. Personally I set up SPF [wikipedia.org] to specify that only certain domains were allowed to send ma