Workers Poisoned Making Touchscreen Hardware 260
SocResp writes "A chemical called n-hexane has been poisoning the nervous systems of Chinese workers who assemble touchscreen devices for Apple and other companies, an investigative journalist from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation reports. It's scary to think that people are being damaged to pursue high production rates. For companies with soaring profits and share prices, and elaborate product development and marketing, it seems they should be all the more culpable if they fail to take care of the production workers."
This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Insightful)
Production lines in other countries don't incur the cost of US worker-safety regulations.
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People always whine about poor working conditions in 3rd world countries, but then end up buying their products anyway because they're cheaper. I do that too, but I'm not being dishonest about it. Frankly, I don't give a damn if some chinese people die to bring be cheaper iPhones and other goodies. The fact that jobs are being transferred to countries with non-existent worker-safety regulations tells me that most people also don't give a damn.
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You may not give a damn but I'm willing to bet the workers do. The problem is they're either not aware (very likely) or they're forced to choose between that and eating.
The fact that you're too much of a chicken shit to post your opinion with a name suggests that you do in fact give a damn, enough at least to not associate your own handle with your own oxygen wasting stupidity.
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Insightful)
You may not give a damn but I'm willing to bet the workers do. The problem is they're either not aware (very likely) or they're forced to choose between that and eating.
The fact that you're too much of a chicken shit to post your opinion with a name suggests that you do in fact give a damn, enough at least to not associate your own handle with your own oxygen wasting stupidity.
The root of the problem is the same blissful, ignorant indifference that is causing the USA to become a soft-tyranny style police state. The products' marketing don't mention the working conditions that made it available at that price, just like the politicians' campaigns don't mention that the removal of freedom is how many of their goals are accomplished. No one really wants to take a look beneath the surface. It's out of sight, out of mind as though there are no externalities, as though there are no secondary and tertiary effects.
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The root of the problem is the same blissful, ignorant indifference that is causing the USA to become a soft-tyranny style police state. The products' marketing don't mention the working conditions that made it available at that price....
Our government takes steps to protect our workers and we expect the Chinese gov't to do the same. Of course we're apathetic, it's not our problem.
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're a member of the human race, it's your problem. If you have a conscience, it's your problem.
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:4, Insightful)
So is it their problem then that there are homeless people near where I live?
Seriously, the US is supposed to keep its nose out of everybody's business... but now we're supposed to set the example. So which is it? Do we starve them by not buying their products or do we exploit them by buying them?
Either is fine, but what are THEY doing to solve their OWN problems? Call that apathy if you like, but the critical factor that is being glossed over in order to criticize the US here is that they are allowing this to happen. It doesn't matter how many insightful-mod-bait rhetoric you spew, they still need to stand up and defend themselves.
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The third choice is that we specify in our contracts with foreign manufacturers that they are to use type X methods (safe but more expensive) than type Y methods (cheaper but poisonous to the workers) and that we are willing to pay the premium involved.
Yes, some of them could still lie
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:4, Insightful)
Governments are artificial; man-made. Pain, suffering, poverty, these are realities. One-sixth of the world's population is suffering from malnutrition.
When one of us suffers, we all suffer. Yeah, it begs for birth control but we haven't figured out how to get over the religious bias that for millennia, has said: make more babies for armies and to plow fields.
The single global government idea, while with merit, goes against the grain of the fact that we all consider ourselves tribes, a heritage of our nature as animals. If you don't believe we're tribes, look at the denominational list for churches, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship in your town/city.
There is such a thing as social justice, and we're all responsible for it, ultimately.
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The real problem with global government is that it's being forced upon us little bit by little bit, gradually, over years and years, by deception and propaganda. It is not going to be the result of
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There's much truth to what you say. Yet talk of populist uprisings are met with sounds of derision by the Birchers (the Glenn Beck set) as well as the religiousiters. Phrases like "workers of the world unite" are viewed dimly by most governments.
So what does one do? I'm asking this question in all earnestness.
The sheep need shepherds, but egads, what shepherds?
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:4, Interesting)
There's much truth to what you say. Yet talk of populist uprisings are met with sounds of derision by the Birchers (the Glenn Beck set) as well as the religiousiters. Phrases like "workers of the world unite" are viewed dimly by most governments.
So what does one do? I'm asking this question in all earnestness.
The sheep need shepherds, but egads, what shepherds?
Without secondary shepherds the choice is very simple: become your own shepherd or fail to prosper. It so happens that being your own shepherd is the very best way to influence others by your example, while trying to coerce them only encourages defiance. The best implementation of this known to me is the minimal government that can protect civil rights but does not ever isolate anyone from the results of their decisions. It's fertile ground for what could be called enlightened self-interest.
Properly understood, it's an attempt to benefit the whole by doing what is best for the individual. The real problem with even the well-meaning political ideologies of today is that they put the cart before the horse. They amount to a variety of spectrums and schemes that try to benefit the individual by doing what is best for the collective. What are called Liberalism and Conservatism share this flaw. Though it isn't called that, any such collective or group identity is like a corporation in that it takes on a life of its own and seeks to justify and perpetuate its existence. That life it takes on is larger-than-life and tends to overshadow any individual voice.
Improperly understood, it's every-man-for-himself manifested by ruthless competition. This caused the terrible working conditions, exploitation, child labor, etc. of the early Industrial Revolution and causes the same in sweatshops today. It's all about the bottom line because that competition is first and foremost.
All the debates about "regulations vs. free-market" are tainted by the many who incorrectly view that as two opposing sides seeking to settle this question. There is no opposition or contradiction and the reason is simple. Any regulation or lack of regulation comes from an understanding of how it really should be. The concept of how it should be is not derived from the regulations, what the letter of them states and what loopholes one can get away with. Rather, any regulations are kept as simple as possible and come from an enlightened self-interest view of how things should be.
An understanding of this would reveal that the sheep should transcend the need to remain sheep instead of trying to find the ideal shepherd. Without that understanding, the whole world is divided into two opposing factions. It's Left vs. Right, Democrat vs. Republican, Regulation vs. Free-market, etc. None of them ever have a complete and completely sustainable solution. That's how you recognize a flawed understanding.
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So, what is the solution? What should I do in order to improve the lives of factory workers in China? Please be specific.
"Stop buying Chinese consumer products" might sound good, but I'd make two points: I buy relatively few consumer products that are made in China, and if we (the West) stop buying their products it will cause their labor conditions to *decline* not *improve*.
When I got on this anti-China high horse a while back I did some investigation. I ended up with a shirt made in Thailand, an oil
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The "think globally, act locally" aphorism might apply here. I try to by locally first, nationally second. Domestic stuff gets harder to find. From that point, I try to spread my money, not favoring one particular country or another. Still, I avoid Chinese products where possible because of the debt that the Chinese government owns of the US government paper.
Can it be avoided? So far, I have an HDTV, but it's an LCD and doesn't use the manufacturing processes involved in touch screens. Indeed almost everyth
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. I buy products made on assembly lines with nonzero accident rates, made from metals mined under dangerous conditions (ALL of them are), made from oil drilled and refined under dangerous conditions, processed using energy from coal mined under dangerous conditions, transported over dangerous roads, etc.
Fact is, every product -- even those made entirely in 1st world Western countries -- required some danger somewhere in its manufacturing process. You can fairly claim that Chinese manufacturing is unnecessarily dangerous, but you can't set the bar at zero.
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Yes. I buy products made on assembly lines with nonzero accident rates, made from metals mined under dangerous conditions (ALL of them are), made from oil drilled and refined under dangerous conditions, processed using energy from coal mined under dangerous conditions, transported over dangerous roads, etc.
Fact is, every product -- even those made entirely in 1st world Western countries -- required some danger somewhere in its manufacturing process. You can fairly claim that Chinese manufacturing is unnecessarily dangerous, but you can't set the bar at zero.
Accidents happen.
Unsafe working conditions aren't accidents, they are purposely bad conditions set to produce cheaper items at the cost of the health or lives of it's workers.
You can spin it how you want, but we are abusing the people of 3rd world companies by allowing our companies to manufacture items there.
We, as humans on earth, should be treating our fellow humans better.
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Wow this is just silly. How narcissistic can one be? This problem has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with China. If a US company did offer to pay more do you think that they would use that money for safe working conditions or do you think they would just take more profit?
I am all for buying from free nations but that alone will not do much to solve the problem. Until China cares about the Chinese nothing will change.
The rest is just unrelated.
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately the situation in China is the same as the situation everywhere. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. The problem the Chinese have is that they fear their government, and with very good reason. So long as their political elites are an "untouchable" group who can stomp on their own citizens with no fear for their own personal safety, that will remain the case. It's sad that it comes down to that. What you'd like to believe is that human beings with political power would help other human beings to prosper, that government can be your friend and your buddy who looks out for you. This is absolutely not the reality and never has been.
Right now Chinese people fear their government and justifiably so. Until and unless this changes, the government of China cares only for the numbers such as its GDP and does not care about the human cost necessary to achieve it. It has no incentive to sacrifice economic gain in order to safeguard things like good working conditions and basic human rights. If it did that, the numbers would not look as good to it.
The problem everywhere is that people don't understand a basic fact: government represents force and "might makes right" and seeks to maintain a monopoly on the use of force. That is the ONLY THING that makes government different from any other entity. You can dress it up in terms of polls and party affiliation and such, but ultimately government derives its existence from the point of a gun, from superior brute force or threat of force and not from superior wisdom or reason. It is therefore fundamentally untrustworthy and thuggish. More government equals more force and thus, more care that must be taken to ensure that such force is used within strict boundaries. Advocating more government to solve problems that don't require force to solve leads to more subjugation and less freedom.
The USA's Founding Fathers understood this reality. They knew that the only difference between a tyrannical government and a "good" government was size, managebility, and accountability. These three things are one as they are all related. As size of government goes up, managebility and accountability of government goes down. Eventually it has no purpose other than to perpetuate its own existence. The Chinese are finding this out the hard way, in the form of a government that will happily let them ingest poison so long as the money keeps flowing.
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Unfortunately the situation in China is the same as the situation everywhere. When the government fears the people, there is liberty
It's become more and more difficult over time to get together and throw a revolution. This is what worries me...
The Chinese are finding this out the hard way, in the form of a government that will happily let them ingest poison so long as the money keeps flowing.
We find excessive emissions from power plants and other places with smokestacks as rapidly as we can send people up them to inspect them in THIS country. The FDA has become a vehicle for green-lighting harmful products in THIS country. The auto companies keep selling us bigger and bigger vehicles which consume more and more resources keeping the refineries going 24x7x365 in THIS country. It's time
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The fact that you're too much of a chicken shit to post your opinion with a name suggests that you do in fact give a damn, enough at least to not associate your own handle with your own oxygen wasting stupidity.
*clap clap clap*
Even I caught a little heat off that one.
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mod parent insightful
As for all AC's, F.O.!
The true reason for offshoring has nothing to do with cheap products. It does have to do with greater profit margins. Most people pay what the sellers ask for, if this is not true then why does the price of consumables remain constant yet the cost of production drops. If the cost of production drops then the price of the product should drop as well. But it does not. The use of import tariffs artificially raise the price of imports comparable with American made products. To not use tari
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Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is larger than that. In economics, there's the phenomenon of "externalities" -- basically, costs incurred by business operations that aren't paid for by the business itself.
In the United States, for example, companies are generally expected to provide health insurance coverage for their workers. If a lot of workers get sick and file health claims, the employer's insurance rates go up -- so it's in the employer's interests to maintain a healthful work environment. But if the company doesn't provide health coverage, the costs are still caused by the business, but the expenses are picked up by someone else -- either the employees themselves or the taxpayers (because the employees end up getting many of their medical expenses waived, either intentionally or through bankruptcy). That's an externality.
The same is true of many of the environmental factors discussed in TFA. If I run a factory that dumps chemicals into a river, and there's no law that says I have to clean up that waste, then that's an externality -- someone is eventually going to have to do something about it, just not me.
The same with air pollution. If someone notices that the air is getting smoggier, but there's no regulation that says how much particulate matter I'm allowed to release into the atmosphere, then obviously nobody is going to be measuring my emissions and there will be no way to know how much of the smog I'm responsible for. Obviously I won't be factoring that into my balance sheet.
I'm further willing to venture that in a tightly-controlled authoritarian economy, such as China's, government and party officials are likely to have significant stakes in the businesses that are causing the pollution and health problems, and therefore the incentive to legislate those businesses will be low. Maybe it's worth considering how American businesses can be regulated such that they will be required to pick up costs incurred by their suppliers overseas. If those costs can't be properly accounted for, maybe the American companies should be required to take their business elsewhere.
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The powers that be in China basically view the working class as economic cannon fodder. They couldn't care less what happens to those people because they don't think their lives are important. In other countries, someone is expected to provide health care to people as a consequence of this, but in China it is OK if they die because the only externality they have to consider is a loss of productive capacity (and they don't presently have a shortage of that).
The solution is not that US companies should ta
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The solution is we should take our business elsewhere, because we are the ones who care about the human cost.
Define "we". Most people care more about the price of the phone they want to buy than the lives of some random Chinese workers. Including the Chinese.
Re:This is part of why offshoring is cheaper: (Score:4, Interesting)
The powers that be in China basically view the working class as economic cannon fodder.
What exactly is it that makes you think that the powers that be in the USA are any different? Did you forget about shooting veterans on the white house lawn? Did you forget about the mass graves of Panamanians on the military base in Panama, people killed in our name? Have you forgotten that only a few of us have strong labor laws (union members) while the rest of us are being pushed further towards poverty by an economy which includes ever more part-time and ever fewer full-time jobs? Did you notice that the banks received bailouts instead of the creation of public works projects which would actually have produced genuine benefit instead of simply permitting execs to take home huge bonuses, bonuses which will be converted to foreign currencies as rapidly as possible?
We can't afford to be so complacent. There will come a day (or perhaps it is already here) when our "leaders" will view us the same way. This is a situation that can not be tolerated.
You're tolerating it right now.
Giving bailouts to the bankers is WAR
Dumping currency to produce inflation is an act of WAR
Putting you on the watch list for your political views that's WAR
Exporting our pollution to China is a strategy of WAR
You don't even fucking know that you're losing the WAR.
It's lonely out here in the left-of-left position, but at least I can't be conflated with half-asses.
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You forgot the <sarcasm> tags or should it be <stupidity> tags.
Apple.... and those others. (Score:4, Insightful)
You know...when ever there's a news story about a portable music device they automatically refer to the Apple iPod, which is irritating as hell.
The same thing happens with tablets now.
It's nice that they still drag Apple into a conversation like this...but it's still bullshit.
Quit saying Apple, ipod, ipad, etc unless it is a story actually about just them.
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Yeah! It should be about how Steve Jobs hates Chinese people, and forces them to commit suicide and pollute their bodies with horrifying chemicals.
Re:Apple.... and those others. (Score:4, Interesting)
You know...when ever there's a news story about a portable music device they automatically refer to the Apple iPod, which is irritating as hell.
The same thing happens with tablets now.
It's nice that they still drag Apple into a conversation like this...but it's still bullshit.
Quit saying Apple, ipod, ipad, etc unless it is a story actually about just them.
Whenever I mention something about Apple being subject to the laws of business like any other company, people often come out of the woodwork to say something like, "Oh no you dint! Apple is the largest purchaser of in the WORLD, and they can do it faster, cheaper, prettier... etc. etc."
So, since Apple be the largest X of Y in the WORLD, and first in market share and mind share, I find it entirely appropriate to drag Apple's name into the negative aspects of consumer electronics, including suicides among poorly treated workers, and outright poisoning of them. After all, with the Zune's laughable market share, how many workers could be dying assembling them?
Re:Apple.... and those others. (Score:4, Funny)
And killing Chinese workers!
God bless America
Re:Give me a break. (Score:4, Funny)
Okay, props for correct use of the term "twat waffle".
Re:Give me a break. (Score:4, Funny)
I've yet to meet anyone with a Zune or a creative player who is as large a twat waffle as Apple fanboys.
I've yet to meet anyone with a Zune or a creative player, period. Which I think disproves the GPs point more immediately.
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I've yet to meet anyone with a Zune or a creative player who is as large a twat waffle as Apple fanboys.
I've yet to meet anyone with a Zune or a creative player, period. Which I think disproves the GPs point more immediately.
Motorola Droids have touch screens.
McDonald's ordering computers have touch screens.
Why not say "Chinese manufacturers of Motorola's Droid..."
or "Chinese manufacturers of McDonald's Touch screens"?
GP is 100% valid. It was the *exact* same deal with the "horrible suicide rates at 'Apple's manufacturing plant".
Does anybody know that the suicide rate there is less than the national average in China? Does anybody know that Apple accounts for about 3% of the business at the plant? No. But Slashdot, CN
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I've met someone with a Zune... it looked pretty fucking sweet compared to an iPod.
And the damages from waste? (Score:2)
And is anyone asking companies to pay for the costs/injuries from reclaiming materials from the waste stream?
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In addition, that China puts pollution controls on their power plants.
And that China will allow their Yuan to Float.
And that China will quit dumping on export markets.
And that China will quit subsidizing.
And that China will simply live up to the MANY treaties/agreements that they have and ignore.
The problem is that the CHinese gov. does not honor their word and Western Businesses are taking advantage
It's a WalMart world after all (Score:4, Interesting)
That's what happens when you have a population feeling that they need 54 inch TVs, enough food to kill themselves with, clothes they wear twice before they pitch them in the trash or out grow them, every Pixar film in their home library and two of the biggest three video game consoles for each child.
People have made a choice between quantity and quality and China is taking the brunt of this along with the spoils.
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Bah, 54" is for people with normal dicks. Mine's extremely small, and 54" wouldn't even begin to compensate.
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Or, put another way, China is benefiting enormously from the economic opportunities the market for 54 inch TV's and DVD's has created, and the fact that their labour laws and practices haven't caught up is both a matter of time and necessity. You can't seriously have expected a country that 30 years ago had virtually no trade to suddenly know what of our laws to copy or not. Your supposition of 'need' doesn't make sense. If people needed those goods they would pay higher prices, the fact is they don't n
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You don't actually believe that given higher prices and less consumption that corporations will stop manufacturing their products under the most environmentally unfriendly and humanly detrimental conditions in order to maximize a profit, do you?
The driving factor for many of the ills today is one thing and one thing only, an insatiable greed of a tiny portion of the population who are not satisfied with a comfortable life, an elite life, not even an opulent life, nope, the objective is nothing less than tot
Re:It's a WalMart world after all (Score:4, Insightful)
wrong. Even if we cut it in half. They would still be made in China, Chinese companies would still have horrid working conditions. The only change would be that there is even MORE demand for those jobs, and less of an incentive to treat the workers like human beings.
The only fix is to get China to have some decent labor laws. The best way to do that is add a large tarif for any goods coming into the US from a country that doesn't meet our basic federal laws.
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Re:It's a WalMart world after all (Score:5, Informative)
Again, you missed his point. His point is we should consume less. Not that we shouldn't buy anything from China at all.
I disagree with his premise, but at least I understand it. You are just being intentional obtuse.
Nothing he posted way a hypocrisy in any way.
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I'm pretty sure that a guy using a 7-year-old laptop is not the kind of hyper-consumer who tries to e.g. eat enough food to kill himself. But don't let me get in the way of your hyperbole...I know you're just dying to hate some stranger on the Internet.
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n-hexane, that n is actually a Greek character...
No, that n is just an n. It stands for normal. It means it is a straight chain, not branched like isohexane or neohexane would be.
H H H H H H
| | | | | |
H--C--C--C--C--C--C--H is n-hexane.
| | | | | |
H H H H H H
AC because I don't want to undo my mods.
Also can't use monospace font without logging in and can't use enough spaces to align it without triggering the junk character filter, so my diagram is
Ah, communist China! (Score:2)
The workers' paradise!
No such thing as free trade.... (Score:3, Insightful)
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No there's plenty of free trade. You know all that stuff that goes intercontinental in the US state by state? Free trade. The stuff that goes in Canada province, by province? Yeah free trade. The reality is most agreements at a federal level are some type of fair trade(that includes nafta).
Free trade drives markets, especially when you're not being penalized. In turn as it furthers more open markets, people get a better standard of living. You're being obtuse, or perhaps ignorant in thinking that fre
Worker safety in China (Score:2, Interesting)
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British Petroleum has been poor in enforcing some basic safety requirements. China doesn't give a shit about basic safety requirements. Providing major ports like Shanghai are heading to North America and Europe a bazillion pairs of Nike Asskickers, iTubePhone and lead-based children's wear, China and the Chinese manufacturers could care less about safety. In China, whether you died to make the Kuomintang great, or died to make Mao's
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Chinese manufacturers could care less about safety.
How much less?
Capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)
The market will fix this. Nobody will buy iPhones when they hear about this. And all iPhone consumers in the market will hear about it.
Right?
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"Whatever. Does it come in white?"
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The market will fix this.
Huh? I know you're trying to be clever and sarcastic, here, and normally I'm the first to attack free market purists, but I don't see anyone claiming that this kind of thing will be solved by the invisible hand.
This is, put simply, a classic example of a negative externality. The only solution is government regulation or taxation.
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You're both right. This is a classic negative externality. People who know about economics recognize the importance of regulation (and taxation!) in correcting such "flaws" in the market. But people in politics who shout about "the free market" either don't understand externalities or (far more likely) have a vested interest in protecting the beneficiaries of those externalities. So you've got Rand Paul out there shouting about how it's just totally wrong for the government to ever regulate mountaintop mini
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These people are all now poisoned in their nervous systems. How is the market fixing that?
You libertarians all think you're talking about Sim City. You're not. These people are poisoned. It's too late. That's what capitalism does when unchecked by protecting people's rights: it makes a clean getaway.
chemistry of n-hexane (Score:5, Interesting)
It's pretty common in production facilities, particularly manufacturing lines, to start out with good chemical control: a fireproof safe from which people have to check out material, and over time, as the manufacturing process evolves, people keep finding they need to wash stuff up at one step and pretty soon a jug of solvent just gets left there and people start splashing it around. Gloves get in the way, or get caught in machinery, so people stop using those, too. Then, in the US, OSHA makes more and more drastic rules about allowing solvents of any sort, to try to prevent this happening, and manufacturers have to find another solvent, which then gets used in the same way with the same results.
Point being, it's not particularly OSHA that's the problem: they're trying to stop people poisoning themselves. The issue is manufacturing processes with unanticipated problems, and production workers who find ways to overcome the problems without realizing that they're endangering themselves. In China there's less concern over workers endangering themselves than in the US, although the difference is primarily in degree, but the same general problem is seen in most manufacturing environments.
OSHA's a problem (Score:2)
Point being, it's not particularly OSHA that's the problem: they're trying to stop people poisoning themselves. The issue is manufacturing processes with unanticipated problems, and production workers who find ways to overcome the problems without realizing that they're endangering themselves.
You know this and I know this, so isn't it safe to say that OSHA knows this? And that they're spending effort not really solving any problems?
I know, how many bureaucrats does it take to say, "pfft, there's nothing we can really do that will help here."
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Further, N-hexane use is already banned in China for use as a solvent when cleaning LCD panels. Also, Wintek (the screen supplier for Apple, Nokia, and several other companies) claims that they have not used it since August of 2009. (Source: Engadget [engadget.com]) In other words, this story seems to be more than a year behind. Sure, the effects can still be seen in much the same way that the effects of Chernobyl can still be seen, but that doesn't mean people are still actively being harmed as this story seems to im
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The issue is manufacturing processes with unanticipated problems, and production workers who find ways to overcome the problems without realizing that they're endangering themselves.
No, the issue is that companies put profits above safety.
If workers remove their gloves, they should be fired. If an inspector finds a worker not wearing gloves, the company should be fined big-time. The employer is in charge of the workplace, and so they are responsible for what happens, period.
If you set your policy any oth
modern china is slavery (Score:2, Interesting)
the citizens have no right to elect their own government, and so they are basically slaves to a few grumpy technocrats in beijing
and the shame is, americans are happy to support this human rights quagmire, because they get cheap plastic crap in the bargain. all the while, they let their own manufacturing sector rot and their economy go to hell, because slave labor is obviously cheaper
who cares about human rights, who cares about my own country's economy, as long as i get my fucking shiny smartphone
blame cor
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its true
we waste our young folk's lives and trillions of our dollars to ensure the stability of the oil supply... for the growth of china
the usa has become nothing but the thug enforcer for china
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yes, only american buy goods from China~
It's a limited time offer (Score:4, Insightful)
The only comfort I take in the Global Economy is that eventually every part of the world will be industrialized and we'll run out of cheap labor hellholes to have our gadgets made in. I still remember in the 60s when Made in Japan was synonymous with cheap plastic crap. The process that has taken place in Japan since WWII is repeating at a faster pace in places like China and Mexico. Now those countries have a growing consumer class that is looking for cheap labor in other places. After the cycle happens across South America and Africa, the party will be over and so will the culture of endless business growth based on cheap labor.
Re:It's a limited time offer (Score:4, Insightful)
wrong, the U.S.A. is being transformed into a cheap labor hellhole right before your eyes.
Odd choice of words (Score:2)
"It's scary to think that people are being damaged to pursue high production rates."
Damaged? What a peculiar choice of words. People get harmed or injured; machines and tools get damaged and malfunction.
Hey China - here's a message from god (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear China,
You have a unique and valuable natural resource. You have been selling it at a deep discount so you could get a firm grasp on the balls of every modern nation on earth. Let's call that mission accomplished. You can now start raising the price, and using the increased profits to clean up your country before you kill off the very resource that has created all this wealth. Sure, some bottom-feeders will go elsewhere, but those who stick with you will pay more, and allow you to actually improve your country.
Don't do it all at once - just practice boiling a frog by slowly warming the water. A small increase every quarter will do. However, don't let me catch you pocketing the profits. If you don't start buying scrubbers for your smokestacks, and water treatment plants, I might have to come down and smite your ass.
With Love
God, Buddha, or whatever higher power is in style this week
Re:Hey China - here's a message from god (Score:4, Informative)
First, people concern themselves with just getting food and water and shelter. Once they have that, they start worrying about the quality of those things. China's making huge strides towards those basics, and much of the population is now starting to look for quality, to the point that organic foods are becoming available in better supermarkets.
It's heading in the right direction... Hopefully they'll tighten things up without going to the extreme we see in the US and the EU, in terms of every little safety requirement and regulation.
Poisoned? (Score:2)
So what? Isn't this why American companies make their products there? So you can poison your workers and not have to pay squat?
Well it's is many American foods (Score:4, Informative)
Hexane is derived from petroleum. It is a colorless, volatile liquid with a mild, gasoline-like odor.
It's used in Electrical contact cleaner, and Computer monitor screen cleaners.
Hexane is the dominate extraction solvent for oil seeds throughout the world, including soybean and other high volume oils used for human and animal consumption. 95% of the world's corn oil is produced from corn germ obtained by wet-milling.
The corn germ is dried, then shipped to hexane extraction facilities to obtain the oil.
Basically corn oil and high fructose corn syrup are contaminated with the stuff in small amounts.
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5118098_corn-oil-processing.html [ehow.com]
Re:Well it's is many American foods (Score:5, Informative)
Be careful with hexane nomenclature. n-hexane is one of the isomers of hexane (there are 5), and by far the most toxic. Claims that hexane is a neurotoxin are misleading - the only hexane isomer that is a neurotoxin is n-hexane as the other hexanes don't produce the nerve damaging metabolite of n-hexane.
Don't forget (Score:2)
Here AS Well (Score:2)
American workers often lose their health and their lives as companies that have big money have influenced our law makers. Getting sued for wrongful death of a worker is far better money wise than creating a safe work place. Workman's Compensation is so pitiful with the stingy sums payed out for injured workers and they often are not allowed access to the courts as Workman's Comp laws block that right.
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Re:Someone mod down this jerk (Score:5, Insightful)
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Ok, I can see that. I was taking the post at face value, and didn't see the possibility of irony/sarcasm. The poster could have been a bit more clear, but that's more minor.
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And the companies that do the manufacturing are owned, or strongly tied to the government, meaning they have implicit, if not explicit permission to do these things.
Besides, when you do business in france, you follow french labour laws, in the US you follow US ones, in communist china you follow theirs. That communist china's laws (and practices, since in many cases their laws are up to date but not their desire to enforce the laws) are dangerously inadequate, and france's are generally too far the other w
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Maybe instead of the straw man about how we shouldn't be dictating other countries' policies, we should think about our own moral obligations. I may not have a moral obligation to change China's policies—in fact, I have a moral obligation not to—but I certainly have a moral obligation not to enjoy the fruits of their ill-gotten labor, and not to enrich and empower them for the privilege.
Discretion in one's own behaviors is far from revolutionary, and it's also far from hegemonic. It's frankly a
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There's over 7 billion people on Earth. I've been contemplating this:
If you had a company with a concentration camp business model and assuming word never got out, I think you could literally work people to death an never run out of workers - ever. And I would expand that further. If every manufacturing company did that, I think the population of the World would stabilize.
It's just a game I play to try to fathom how many people there are on this Earth -
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Unless your in the business of digging ditches, your worker efficiency will be incredibly low with such a high turnover rate. If you have ANY competition they will destroy you easily.
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The problem is that there are enough actual proponents of this mindset out there that it isn't necessarily taken as over-the-top.
He didn't say it should be that way (Score:5, Insightful)
Just that it is that way. And I agree, I've been there.
When you have a lot of labor to throw at a problem, the relative value of that labor becomes less. If you can get more workers for cheap, you'll use more of them and less expensive equipment and you'll use less expensive safety equipment too.
And I've seen this in China myself. Even if the process is supposed to be safe, the line managers are rewarded for running the lines fast and at low cost, so shortcuts that don't seem to hurt anyone lead to bonuses at the end of the quarter.
And yes, some of these shortcuts do hurt people long term, but its not obvious. That's why we have safety rules in the US. It's why China has them too, but never enforces them.
Let me give you just one example. In China I saw a guy welding stuff using an arc welder and no mask. He had a piece of cardboard to shield his eyes and he'd move it aside and squint when he needed to see what was going on. Yes, he was destroying his eyes. And complaining about what people post on slashdot isn't fixing the problem.
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How incredibly insensitve, to say that an entire race is expendable. Shame on you.
Apparently, YOU are not of the ruling elite, which means you ARE cannon fodder, or soon will be.
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And if he'd said "They're Earthers. They have extras." would it be the same?
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The truth is that it is not really any different. The Han race managed to genocide most of the other native Chinese people off the planet.
The Han race is the communist party is China. It is an incredibly racist regime that suppresses any other ethnic minorities into oblivion.
Re:Someone mod down this jerk (Score:5, Funny)
Are you trying to tell us that Han shot first?!
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Except California.
Re:WHAT?! (Score:4, Funny)
Until someone discovers that smug causes cancer.
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If that's not a typo I wish I had mod points.
It's scary to think you're so misinformed. (Score:5, Informative)
Why the fuck do you think things are made in China?
Actually, it has a lot to do with convergence, and quality/adaptability of the workforce. You can get cheaper labour elsewhere.
What do I mean about convergence? Well, because all the other tech shit is made in Shenzen, you make your tech shit in Shenzen to reduce shipping cost and time. It's easier to go from prototype to assembly in a city that has all it's factories ready to easily adapt to various different hardware requirements.
The average Chinese high-tech factory worker is a female wanting to save up some money to start a family, she is highly motivated to do a good job. She is very adaptable to the ever changing needs of high tech manufacturing (you can get robots to do the same shit she does... but you have to program the robots a lot due to the constant changing of high-tech).
It's not simply cheap to manufacture high-tech in Shenzen simply because the workers sell themselves cheap, it's cheap in Shenzen because the city is incredibly good at using all of it's varied economies of scale (not just human).
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Many companies in the US regularly work their salaried employees at rates which hard the health and result in accidental deaths of their employees.
Human life won't always be cheap there. Things are evening out between the nations. We'll stagnate or even drift down in the west until things are equal. Since we don't have true freedom in the west any more, our competitive advantages have been lost.
The corporations are mostly in control but even there at any point the laws could turn against them. As we los
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Mod parent up. Arguably, we're re-living 1900 here in some ways too; but it's much more apparent in China.
Under the Chinese system, how can there be an Upton Sinclair though? They'll just squash him.
I don't think things like this can go on forever though. I've said it a number of times: "If the Chinese aren't careful, they're going to have a communist revolution on their hands".
Followed by, "how long before China sets a river on fire?".
I remember just after Tienanmen, when it was readily apparent that th
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...Profit!