Philly Answers Youth Flash Mobs With Curfew Enforcement 377
Not that it's the first city to enforce a youth curfew, and not that kids on a crime-spree is the only variety of moral panic offered as a rationale, but Philadelphia is cracking down through increased enforcement of a youth curfew law after children and teenagers attacked two people in the Center City district — attacks which, according to police, were coordinated via text messaging.
Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (Score:5, Insightful)
And in this case, it wasn't really a flash mob at all, it was just a gang of hoodlums.
This story doesn't seem relevant to this site at all to me.
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Yes, a gang of *black* hoodlums, attacking innocent whites in race-hatred motivated motivated attacks.
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Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (Score:5, Insightful)
But its time to call it like it is folks, and admit there is a reason why even though blacks have only 10% of the population they are more than 30% of the jail pop and it AIN'T racism. it is because you have this huge "thug life baby, thug life 4ever!" culture coupled with ZERO shame for having a half a dozen kids and not even knowing who the father is or having a male even involved in the child's life.
I'm not going to "call it" like any of this.
For one thing, who are the biggest consumers of rap music? White kids. That is a fact: Whites buy more rap music than anybody else, including the "thug life 4ever" music you describe. It only makes sense, because whites are the majority.
But white appetite for gangsta rap music is significant, because various black leaders over the years, including (just for example) Chuck D of the rap group Public Enemy, have criticized gangsta rap as a fabrication created by the (white-owned) record labels to pander to white prejudices and bigotry. Gangsta rap music perpetuates the same kind of stereotypes first put forth by the "blacksploitation" movies of the 1970s: Black man as thug, black man as criminal, black man as sexual predator. Those movies were made by whites and white audiences ate them up.
And those stereotypes didn't come out of nowhere. They are essentially the same stereotypes that were created as a way to reinforce the institution of slavery: Don't trust the Negro. He has no intelligence, only criminality. His only interest is to steal whatever he can (which is hilarious, considering black slaves were systematically deprived every possible material possession, up to and including their own bodies). He covets white women, don't let your women near him. If you see a Negro walking unaccompanied, call the police. And so on.
To your second point, about black families not having father figures, guess what? This is America. I grew up in the white suburbs in California, and from the 1970s onward, divorce was positively endemic in that community. I barely knew anybody who grew up in a two-parent household. Judges tended to award custody to mothers, and many fathers (mine, for example) were more than happy with that situation. Most white kids tended to see their fathers on weekends, or at least a couple times a month. But that might be true of "fatherless" black kids, too -- that doesn't make their fathers into "father figures." And as for abandoning their kids? My dad was a doctor, making a six-figure salary, and my mom eventually gave up trying to collect child support for her two kids.
So what's the difference? The difference is that when compared to blacks, whites are disproportionately born into the middle class or higher. They live in communities with better schools and better access to opportunities. They live in communities that don't foster an atmosphere of criminality, hostility, and disrespect -- but that's largely because even the most disadvantaged of their peers is probably doing pretty OK, while kids who grow up in poor neighborhoods are likely to have friends who are literally living on the streets by the time they are teenagers.
The difference is that, however much you might want to wave your hand and vanish it all into the cornfield, blacks still must contend with the legacy institutionalized racism. They are still born into communities that inherit the poverty that came from discrimination, segregation, intimidation, marginalization, disenfranchisement, and all the inequalities to which blacks were subjected just 50 years ago.
Seriously, you do realize that there are probably people reading /. who were born in an era where it was actually legal to deny someone a job because they were black, right? Or for that matter, to deny them the use of a public toilet for the same reason? That doesn't just disappear overnight.
A lot of the change has to come from within the black community, true. But what
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1.) How come neighborhoods blacks live in become run down, crime ridden, & drug infested hell holes most every time (from what I have seen around here that is certain)?
They become run down because black neighborhoods are marginalized by the political process (think gerrymandering). They also become run down because they are poor (think property taxes). They become crime ridden and drug infested because the people who live there are poor, have few opportunities, and can find no way to escape (think Detroit).
2.) How come whites came to this nation & fluorished by comparison largely (creating the nation of the USA in all its greatness, yes, even now)??
Are you out of your mind? Whites "fluorished" because they built this nation on free slave labor. Blacks came to this nation in chains. You see the difference, yes?
3.) Explain what is here then:
Real
Re:You're trying to blame others (poor tactic) (Score:4, Interesting)
Dude, you're arguing with the most trollingest troll ever. This guy is a dyed in the wool moron who will respond to your ever post with an incoherent mixture of words and meaningless punctuation. Sorry man but YHBT.
I know it, and I'm pretty much stopping now, but you know... there's just certain things that I don't feel you should let slide. I'm not trying to convince this guy of anything. I'm trying to let him make a fool of himself. Whether he's a troll or not, his bullshit stays on /. forever. I'd rather his legacy be looking like a clown than helping make /. the kind of place where racists can come to get their rocks off. There are plenty of sites for that.
(And troll-dude, FWIW, I've posted a couple GNAA trolls myself in my time -- funny ones, too -- but this kind of racist horseshit crosses a line. It's not funny, it's just dumb.)
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It's one thing to point out the inherent discrimination in the system, and another thing entirely to excuse criminal behavior as a result
Who's excusing it? Sounds like the GP is the one who is excusing it, because he writes it off as a result of the perpetrators being black. It's not gangs that are behind crimes, it's black gangs. It's not that criminals are in the wrong side of right and wrong it's that blacks consistently choose the wrong side. "They" are all criminals because it's part of "their" culture. It's the same age-old apology for racism that's been floated since this country existed.
You don't need to be a middle class white kid to know that assaulting someone is wrong, and when you get arrested for doing so you can't blame the fact that your skin is a different color.
No, but if a vastly higher percentage of black
I am forced to agree (Score:3, Informative)
I live in a neighborhood that's going through that kind of thing & I am also in process evicting some blacks from properties I own for being late on payments and destroying my property piece by piece, as well as trespassing & attempted robberies of my neighbors' homes too in this particular property.
They called me a "cracker m'f'er" when I told them to move their things from that home's basement (not in rental agreement, was just a nicety I offered), & EVEN threatened me while I was on the phone
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Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think this is more about "your rights." Lest we forget, we were all young once too, and not all of us were idiots. They're taking rights away. I mean, just look at this quote:
“No good things can happen to young people at that hour.”
Seems like a slippery slope to "No good things can happen to people at that hour.", no? Rights are rights, /. fights so hard for children's rights in schools, and there have been many postings about how so and so's son was expelled for "hacking." Why not out-cry ove
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One fine summer day... (Score:2)
I remember back when I was 17. I would think to myself, "If only there was a time of year where there was no school and I could get a job to earn some extra cash."
I hope one day future generations could have some kind of vacation in the summer where they could work to earn extra money, even if it involves the occasional late shift.
Year-round school (Score:2)
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There is absolutely no good reason to pass a law forcing good people, even young ones, to stay home after a certain hour in a free country. AND this law only applies to kid under 13! Does Philly actually have troubles with kids that young committing violent crimes?
Curfews are an infringement of citizens rights. Young people are citizens. I'm a father of three grown kids, and had my share of trouble with my boys in their teenage years, but it is up to me, not the government to set my kids curfew.
I think
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Amateur astronomy?
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I used to get up at two or three in the morning and go fishing before school.
Seems like a perfectly valid reason to be out of the house after midnight to me.
Just because YOUR teen-hood was so dull you didn't have a reason to be out late doesn't mean there aren't reasons. Hell, I had a couple of friends who would take late-night walks in the cemetery and write angsty bad poetry. Weird? Maybe. Worth arresting them over? No.
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Let's just ban everything and punish everyone, then. It's easier that way.
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Excellent! House arrest for everyone! It's much easier than trying to nondeterministically guess which citizens are going to commit a crime and which ones aren't.
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How about: That's what parents are for. If kids are out at night up to no good someone needs to take a look at their parents. Mine didn't roam around after midnight...or go anywhere much at all on school nights. They bitched like hell when they were teenagers, told me they hated me, and now that they have kids of their own suddenly they get it. Amazing.
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Midnight premiere of Latest Over-Hyped Movie?
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There is no good reason
According to you. However, "good" is subjective. Some people might find "good" reasons to be out at that time period.
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This isn't a suburb, it's Philadelphia, it has one of the highest murder rates in the country.If a parent thinks it's okay for their child to be wondering around Philadelphia at night, they obviously don't care if that child makes it back home.
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Therefore, they do not exist.
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And that is why we can't have nice things.
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You keep implying that every single teen in Philly is a violent gang member who has personally taken part in these mobs.
We actually ALREADY DO take away their freedoms when they violate societal standards. When teends DO IN FACT go mobbing and attacking people, we DO IN FACT take away their right to be out, at night OR day.
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I have a radical idea: hold both them AND their parents responsible for all of their criminal acts.
It's an interesting idea, but it won't work, and it may increase the amount of abuse among poor families. (Where abuse is already a massive problem.)
Learning is environmental. Parents CAN make a huge difference, but sometimes the best parents in the world will have kids who learn the wrong things because of friends or environment, and sometimes there really isn't anything they can do. The entire notion of blaming parents for the wrongs of their children is relatively new in our culture--forty or fifty ye
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You might want to look up anarchist again.
Re:Flash Mobs Are Nerd News Now???? (Score:4, Interesting)
I was a teenager in Philly and there was a curfew. These curfews make sense, I really don't think you are from there if you don't understand why. Currently, these "flash mobs" are sporadic riots involving violence. Imagine living there. Does some kid being out at 12 at night seem more important than not getting mugged and assaulted out of the blue in what you would think is a nice area because there are literally people around everywhere?
The curfew is not enforced racially, for the record. Under 18, you go in. My friend was telling me about how a while back (7 years maybe) he was out at 4am in Philly when he was like 15 and the police cited him and called his parents and he got in a lot of trouble. He's white. These curfews are because a lot of kids do cause problems that late. Right now, yes, there is the disenfranchised black youth, but let's not act like we can't be against violence in the streets if it means we have to acknowledge instances of violence that generally center around a specific population. All it means is we should probably figure out what is making Philadelphia's black youth so mad (there are a lot of obvious things that come to mind) and at the same time don't let them act out in the interim as we try and fix it because no matter what the reasoning, innocent people shouldn't be hospitalized and stores and delis shouldn't be destroyed. No one has the right to do these things to people.
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And precisely when are teens supposed to learn how to make their own decisions? I don't think that there's any good reason for 14 year olds to be out that late by themselves, but at some point, kids do need the chance to start growing up before they turn 18.
Sort of reminds me a bit about a kid I knew in high school. His parents were extremely protective and while typically a very responsible person, he'd more or less go nuts on the weekends that they weren't around. I'd be surprised if he'd do that if he ha
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Does some kid being out at 12 at night seem more important than not getting mugged and assaulted out of the blue in what you would think is a nice area because there are literally people around everywhere?
Yes. I'd rather not put a ban on something just because some people may or may not abuse it.
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So why the hell are you out at an hour where you could get mugged? Why do the kids get a curfew and the adults run around stupidly begging to get mugged?
Perhaps you believe some citizens are lesser beings than others? Perhaps that's one of the things making them so mad?
I fully agree that innocent people shouldn't be hospitalized and stores and delis shouldn't be destroyed and fully support the police finding and stopping the people doing that.
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Perhaps you believe some citizens are lesser beings than others? Perhaps that's one of the things making them so mad?
Yes. They're called minors for a reason. They've been pissy whiny hormonally emotional about it since, well, forever.
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The curfew is a symptom of the problem of a incompetent government. It is NOT a good way to curb violence in a free democracy.
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These curfews are because a lot of kids do cause problems that late.
No matter what you do like this you're going to see more and more of these problems. The only way to fix it is to eliminate basic inequalities in our society. Since our society is generally designed to create inequality, that's not going to happen until it falls. Our culture is therefore designed to fall.
The curfew is not enforced racially, for the record.
As long as the police have the right of selective enforcement, and they very much do, I cannot believe in equality. There WILL always be bias.
no matter what the reasoning, innocent people shouldn't be hospitalized and stores and delis shouldn't be destroyed.
...and innocent people should not be incarcerated, even in their
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Personally, I spent many happy weekends at a certain movie that started at midnight on Saturdays. I met friends who I am, decades later, friends with, and we've been in each other's wedding parties, lost in wars, and otherwise followed the lives of.
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"First, they came for the Niemollers..."
So wouldn't that be called... (Score:2)
Uh... (Score:3)
...everyone is aware that's not what a 'flash mob' is, right?
There are law enforcement issues issues with 'flash mobs', specifically, they work very well as a pre-scheduled distraction for the police, and can even be used for help with escape.
At some point, I suspect that will happen, that some bank robber wearing a clown outfit will actually escape into a flash mob of clowns, and everyone participating in the flash mob will be charged as an 'attractive nuisance', which is legal speak for 'behaving so stupidly that you make the job of criminals easier', and this whole 'flash mob' thing will die out, or at least the anonymous ones.
However, thugs that know each other, coordinating an attack via text messages, is not a 'flash mob'.
Re:Uh... (Score:5, Informative)
In Philadelphia, a flash mob is literally a mob of disenfranchised, angry youth rioting violently for a short amount of time. They run through stores destroying things, they beat people up, they carjack people for a block, hundreds of these kids (if not pushing 1000 sometimes). They are quite literally flash riots.
Re:Uh... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/171638/20110629/philadelphia-flash-mob-2011.htm [ibtimes.com] As a source (but I'm from there and know this personally to be true as well)
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If they're disenfranchised, then this society has become their enemy. You can't blame someone for fighting against an enemy can you?
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you don't seem to know what that word means, you are either clueless or just making shit up
an attractive nuisance is something that is dangerous and may be inviting for a potential victim to go check out, like a large pile of loose gravel at a construction site near a school
Local source (Score:3)
Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (Score:5, Informative)
I am sorry if that comes off as bitter and slightly racist. I was involved in one of these on South Street a few months ago...the fear you feel is absolutely indescribable when you realize that kids as young as 10 were raised in a way where they feel assaulting and robbing people at random is an acceptable Saturday night activity.
Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think it comes off as racist. Only on the internet, where racism has taken a meaning of pointing out problems within a certain community, would it be considered racism. Back in the real world, you pretty much described what a Philly flash mob is and likely what a good part of the reason is that they occur, specifically with poor black youth. It's not racist, it's a depressing reality: the majority of a flash mob (if not the entirety) is poor and black for a reason and not by chance. It's because of these issues that the black community in Philadelphia is dealing with: being raised by no one except some sociopath who was also raised by no one, to bash heads and snatch wallets.
The school system is falling apart meanwhile, we've got a string of terrible superintendents, teachers laid off, when I was in high school 5-9 years ago, there were schools known to be absolute hell holes (I went magnet, my neighborhood school would have probably led to my death) and even now some of these kids apparently were on their way to college but they decide to just participate in this violence? There is clearly something at work here, but that being said there is also no excuse for violence, none of the "white people deserve to get bashed" internet rage is appropriate, especially when most people posting it are white but super far removed from anything close to this because they live in some rich suburb in their parent's house and then act like white people in an urban environment are spoiled children for complaining about these sorts of things.
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Well, no.
Actually, in many parts of the country this would be considered racist. It's not just an internet thing.
Though the tendency to see this sort of comment as intrinsically racist has gone down since Jesse Jackson made the comment about seeing a young mand approaching him at night, and being relieved when he realized the young man was white....
Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (Score:4, Informative)
...and even now some of these kids apparently were on their way to college but they decide to just participate in this violence?
Its part of growing up in the hood. You either fit in with the wolf pack or become prey. Many of those kids do want to get the fuck out of their situation but they have choice but to live with the rest of the dreck. So when a kid trying to be good is asked by his thug friend to go out, he goes and does whatever he can to fit in. Otherwise he will be called a pussy and get his ass beaten (or even killed) on a daily basis.
I remember a mini spurt of wilding one day after school while walking to the bus station. I was walking down when one kid comes running across the street with a big chunk of concrete. I thought I was a goner but it turns out he hurled it through the back window of a parked mini van right in front of me. The group of youths he was with proceeded to cheer and smash a few other car windows on the block. Then they all took off running. This was in broad daylight in front of dozens of other school kids.
I always find that the first whites to call someone a racist are (as you said) far removed from inner city life. They never went to a high school (that was in a bad neighborhood) where they were the only white person in class. They never walked through a bad neighborhood to a friends house and get mugged at gun point by four black youths. They never witnessed a gang of eight youths beating one helpless kid to the point that he had to go to the hospital. Fuck those people.
I am white and I went through this kind of crap. I was mugged a few times on my way to school during my freshman year (all of the muggers were black teens). After that year, the muggings stopped only because I think the police presence was jacked up in that area. I reported every incident to the school, they work with the police on the report.
Growing up with no money and considered a boat anchor sized nuisance by your own parents (usually a single mother with 3+ kids) who turns you loose to get their fuck/crack/drink/whatever on does not produce well behaved members of society. They are literally wild animals. Never loved or taught right from wrong and never learned about consequences. They fear nothing. Some make it through that mess but they are few and far between.
If you want an idea of how bad it gets for poor minority youths, watch the TV show called "The First 48" (Its on A&E). Its a reality cop show based on a few homicide units in various cities. Most of the cases involve black youths and adults senselessly murdering one another over NOTHING. You see the shit conditions they live in and how their parents or lack thereof shaped their short and hellish lives. Its terrible.
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it's about class, not race (Score:4, Insightful)
the same things happen in other parts to the world, and it's not black kids doing it, it's poor kids doing it
the POVERTY is the issue, not the race
it's just revealing to me to see the right constantly falling into race based thinking, rather than class based thinking
it reveals the right doesn't understand the problems you create when you push social policies that create a large poor under class, rather than policies that support the growth of the middle class
the right pushes policies that makes people poor, and then they see poor people doing things because of their lame policies
and yet, they don't think "poor kids did this and that", they think "black kids did this and that"
very revealing
Re:it's about class, not race (Score:5, Interesting)
if i recall correctly, african americans were brought here as slaves, and have been excluded from fair economic participation, on a horrible scale, just up to 50 years ago, not to mention lingering prejudice, like yours. and i think you want to deny that history leaves lasting effects
you want to see race as the cause, when history, economics and class are clearly the cause. if you were intelligent, you would see this
it is always the dumbest losers who are racists. so, in one regard, i kind of agree with racist eugenics principles: improve the gene pool, but not by killing people based on skin color or religion, but instead kill people based on their support for racist policies. because there is no better way to identify a low iq person than to hear someone say something racist
in other words: if you kill all the racists, in any society in the world, the iq of society jumps massively
so what do you think about that modest proposal to improve the gene pool, scumbag?
(snicker)
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you know, you are probably an intelligent person in the traditional iq sense, but you are also obviously socially autistic, socially low iq
the history of the world is not written by the autistic savants like you playing with beakers in the store room. it is written by the socially high iq: the demagogues and pedagogues, those who can move large masses of people with a word. THAT'S the intelligence that really matters in this world
the intelligence that moves atoms is impressive. the intelligence that moves p
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oh what programming is that? behave morally and decently to your fellow human beings?
then you quote Nietzsche! LOL. classic
i got you pegged
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You think so? In the U.K. they're pretty sure it's Chavs wearing hoodies. The one thing Chavs and black kids in Philly have in common is being firmly in the lower class.
Perhaps you meant the Juden?
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the fact is that what you see is because of class. the lie is that it is because of race
proof: you can see the same phenomenon in any other city in the world. and it's always the poor people doing this. the constant is poverty, not race
of course, race and class often overlap. mainly because of the prejudiced policies of racists, and the historical lingering effects of the overt racist policies of the grandfathers of the racists
people on the right push social policies that mean a larger underclass of poor pe
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This is not a Philly problem, this is a global problem. The UK has had feral humans like this for many years, we called them Chavs.
Society is failing to teach parents to be responsible, which is letting feral kids into the systems which disrupts educating everyone else. Until society steps up and starts taking care of the poor and helping them out of their situations, we're going to see increasing numbers of these type of people. There will always be terrible parents who let their kids run wild, but those k
Re:Philly Flash Mob != Flash Mob (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a reason that doesn't happen much in States where it is a reasonable presumption that many potential targets are armed.
The LA riots happened in LA because there was no serious armed opposition except for a very few armed citizens. The reason they didn't spread to the South (excepting a few minor incidents) is that citizens are ready and eager to waste anyone threatening their safety.
"when you realize that kids as young as 10 were raised in a way where they feel assaulting and robbing people at random is an acceptable Saturday night activity."
I wasn't raised to think that gunning them down is an inappropriate response. A child soldier in Africa can kill you as dead as an adult militiaman/woman.
None of this is new. This guy fought back and survived:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz [wikipedia.org]
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That is stupid (Score:2)
They should be banning private ownership of cellphones, which are obviously highly effective as terrorist weapons.
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They should be banning private ownership of cellphones, which are obviously highly effective as terrorist weapons.
How are cellphones effective as terrorist weapons? Terrorists kill 10's 100's or 1000's of people but as far as I can tell here only one guy got critically injured and a few people were assulted. Hardly a terrorist action.
Problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
We can talk about rights all we want, but the fact here is that what we're experiencing here is the criminal element stripping our rights away. Being unable to safely walk somewhere late at night constitutes a loss of freedom. The problem is that Americans are so used to this sort of garbage that they don't even see the problem. But I lived overseas where I could walk the streets at 3am without a care in the world. It wasn't that crime was non-existent but it didn't factor into normal routine. Sketchy neighborhoods were rare.
But the problem here is that American law enforcement is reactive, not proactive. The approach taken to crime is similar to how oppressive regimes keep sectarian conflict in check: oppression. I don't mean that Americans practice anything nearly that severe. What I mean is that they address problems with aggressive tactics; increased police presence, more arrests, etc. That only addresses the symptoms and once they're gone the problems return. And making matters worse is that this approach dehumanizes police offices, it turns them into this faceless force. They don't interact nearly enough with communities. They should patrol on foot, not in police cars.
However, the real problem are parents. Too many parents have abrogated their responsibilities. They don't care what their kids are doing, because if they did that kid wouldn't be out on the streets in the middle of the night. So, the responsibility ends up being foisted on the government. And what the government decides isn't always in the best interests of the citizens, especially when they're looking for quick results. Those quick results are effective over the current election cycle, but they never address the long term problems.
But the fact is the United States is suffering from serious cultural issues that perpetuates things like crime. Those need to be addressed properly, but honestly, I don't know see who could disagree with the benefits of enjoying safer streets, less vandalism, etc. But I suppose it's the tendency for Americans to want to stick it to the man, to the point of being irrational about it.
it's not an american problem (Score:3)
it's a problem with poverty
the overseas places you are talking about are rich places. there are also rich places you can walk around at 3 am in the usa
go to the favelas in rio, the slums outside mumbai or manila or cairo or nairobi, and you tell me again criminals running roughshod over your rights is some sort of american phenomenon
ridiculous
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it's a class problem
the same problems you complain about happen in poor areas outside moscow too. there, right wing russian douchebags who think like yourself, also say it is a problem with minorities from the caucasus, etc
but there, as here, the people doing the complaining are the same people pushing policies that create large poor underclasses. that then do what the poor since the dawn of time have always done: lash out against the unfairness of their lot in life
and then the right wing, in any country, i
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well, we have real nazis commenting in this thread so sure, why not grammar nazis?
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well, not only was it plainly obvious a few decades ago, it was also a worse contrast in poverty between the whites and minorities. because as you go back further in time, more white people were openly racist like you, and openly supported policies that excluded people from economic equality based on the color of their skin
you might have noticed the last time anyone thought like you were in the majority was world war ii, where the germans, with their open racist policies, and the japanese, with their open r
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Too true. If we'd stop electing people who ignored our civil liberties, we'd have fewer criminals in office stripping our rights away.
Would you care to back that up with some facts? (Score:2)
Could you please back these statements up with some facts? The truth is that our cities are not in general more dangerous than they were before, nor was there some kind of golden age when everyone was safer than we were now. Certainly I can point to times when things were much much worse.
While there are always hotspots of crime and danger, and you can always point at anecdotes of problems, I don't think you can support your assertions, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
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We can talk about rights all we want, but the fact here is that what we're experiencing here is the criminal element stripping our rights away.
Sorry, but I disagree. Both scenarios technically take your rights away. And I'd rather the criminals do it to me than have the rights taken away from innocent people who never did anything "wrong" to begin with.
to the point of being irrational about it.
"irrational"? No, it is a preference. There's nothing inherently illogical about emotions or preferences.
Re:Problems... (Score:5, Informative)
I think it depends on where you are. As a tourist, you're probably travelling in safe places - in part because dangerous places aren't the places that get a lot of tourist traffic. (I know, for example, that the tourist areas of Mexico are generally safe, but Mexico has a lot more problems with crime, drug cartels, and 3-4x the homicide rate than the US.) Also, you might be perceiving the US as very dangerous thanks to news reports, while you're judging other countries based on personal experience.
Assaults (per capita) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
# 1 South Africa: 12.0752 per 1,000 people
# 6 United States: 7.56923 per 1,000 people
# 7 New Zealand: 7.47881 per 1,000 people
# 8 United Kingdom: 7.45959 per 1,000 people
# 9 Canada: 7.11834 per 1,000 people
# 10 Australia: 7.02459 per 1,000 people
So, you're only 1%-8% more likely to be assaulted in the US than you are in New Zealand, the UK, Canada, and Australia.
Burglaries (per capita) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
# 1 Australia: 21.7454 per 1,000 people
# 3 Denmark: 18.3299 per 1,000 people
# 4 Estonia: 17.4576 per 1,000 people
# 5 Finland: 16.7697 per 1,000 people
# 6 New Zealand: 16.2763 per 1,000 people
# 7 United Kingdom: 13.8321 per 1,000 people
# 8 Poland: 9.46071 per 1,000 people
# 9 Canada: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
# 17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people
You're quite a bit less likely to have a burglary in the US than you are in Australia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, New Zealand, the UK, Poland, or Canada.
Total crimes (per capita) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
# 2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
# 3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
# 6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
# 8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
# 9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
# 11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people
# 12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people
# 13 Norway: 71.8639 per 1,000 people
The US ranks in the same ballpark as these other countries when it comes to total crimes per capita.
Car thefts (per capita) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_car_the_percap-crime-car-thefts-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
# 1 Australia: 6.92354 per 1,000 people
# 2 Denmark: 5.92839 per 1,000 people
# 3 United Kingdom: 5.6054 per 1,000 people
# 4 New Zealand: 5.45031 per 1,000 people
# 5 Norway: 5.08143 per 1,000 people
# 6 France: 4.9713 per 1,000 people
# 7 Canada: 4.88547 per 1,000 people
# 8 Italy: 4.19755 per 1,000 people
# 9 United States: 3.8795 per 1,000 people
Car theft is quite a bit less common in the US than these other developed countries.
Rapes (per capita) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
# 10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people
# 12 New
Re: (Score:2)
I've some problems with details in your post:
1. The "criminal element" isn't stripping any rights away. (Rights can't be taken away, either, only infringed upon; if they can be taken away, they're called privileges.) If anyone, it's law enforcement that is infringing upon rights. Now, if you were referring to law enforcement agents as criminals, then I stand corrected. :)
2. The crime problem in America is not due to a flaw in law enforcement, but due to the ignorance and laxness of the population in general
Unnecessary cost (Score:2)
Regardless of whether it would be effective at stopping crime, curfews are routinely struck down as unconstitutional. All this will do is cost the city of Philadelphia money in legal fees when it is inevitably challenged in court and struck down.
Local politicians rarely learn though.
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The reason is that Junior has a problem with backwoods drug manufacturing and dealing. Like, massive, to the point that regular night time trafficking and drug use were becoming a safety issue for the entirety
Curfew? Don't be daft. (Score:2)
The world runs 24/7 these days.
I work night shift
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If you're under 18 in the US, that's illegal in pretty much every state, unless you're in some exception, like working for your parents or yourself...
The forgotten generation. (Score:3)
It bugs me the way older generations seem to expect young people to stay at home all day, and then think it strange when the go out and do these sort of things. This is a time when people are trying to make a name for themselves and decide who whey will become, people who want to be spineless, worthless stackers will sit at home and watch TV, but there are a lot of people who want more than that for themselves, and when this is the only real option they have, it's what they turn to.
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"There is no excuse for young people to be able to participate in coordinated, violent behavior if parents are doing their job. It is your responsibility, not the government's, to watch your kids."
There is no excuse for Philly police to be unable to catch coordinated, violent criminals, no matter what size the criminals are.
What if the parents are responsible and little Johnny has shown enough maturity to stay out late without a helicopter mom hovering nearby?
In the land of the free, I guess it's a crime to be out after 10 PM.
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So, on one hand you want to be free, complain about the curfew as well as police having ability to enforce it.
On the other hand, you want police to take care of child criminals, absolving parents from responsibility.
Have you ever heard a saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too"?
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Except that those are two different scenarios. On one hand, they don't want police enforcing a curfew. On the other hand, they want police to take care of the few people that actually commit crimes. The latter has little to do with the former.
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See folks, as our economy declines into a Third World one - no thanks to the Republicans and the TEA Party - we're going to see more civil unrest. Of course, the rich and powerful are scared shitless of this and they're going to have more and more of these rules put into place until we have a police state. Of course, there will be plenty of backing from our fellow peons - you know the "law and order" and "if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" Republicans.
I'd rather give away half then having it all taken away. -Joseph P. Kennedy when asked why a super rich guy like him backed the Democrats
I agree with you except for the part where you don't perceive the Democrats as also being a coequal part of the problem.
The damage they do could not be done without you. Just like the damage the Republicans do couldn't be done without their own apologists.
It's time to recognize that they are two branches of a single party, the purpose of which is to monopolize political power and lock out all competitors who are not vetted by one of the two branches. It is very much like the trade guilds of old. Ne
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We need leadership and great dreams.
We need to build the country back to it's greatness, not as a military power, nor as some corporate imperialist pawn, but as a strong vibrant nation with brilliant ideas, the highest of quality of workmanship, topped with our amazing style and innovation. Face it, nobody wants to see us turn into slobs, and that is what the nation has collectively done. It reflects from sea to shining sea.
We need a medical system that is cost effective. We need a safety net system that bo
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It's not the Tea Party's fault, it's the deteriorating economies fault ... the Tea Party just isn't very helpful in that regard (although ultimately it's the oil dependency and lack of commitment in fixing it which is the true problem). As wealth inequality increases while median income decreases the only way to preserve peace and order will have to be to increase policing.
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Which would, presumably, explain why the Democrat government of Philadelphia decided to impose a curfew and then to enforce it?
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Hoodlums /= "civil unrest", and the baseline violence level in the US is trivial compared to the Bad Old Days.
For example, walking in Central Park is no longer considered attempted suicide. Have some stats:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm [disastercenter.com]
Want "civil unrest"? Have some "1967 riots". THAT was civil unrest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBhaiJ5YNiM [youtube.com]
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This is what a flash mob is in Philly. They are not flash mobs as they are in the rest of the world; it's a slang term for quick, violent riots generally involving minors
Who just happen to be black (Score:4, Informative)
Google black flash mob and you'll see this is becoming a more frequent and frightening phenomenon. The one previous to this was at the Wisconsin State Fair. Here's the link if you think I'm lying http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126828998.html [jsonline.com]
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You're wrong about one thing. It isn't their fault people have been giving them shit for free their whole lives. And when someone gets something for free, they naturally learn to expect it. Their expectations are completely rational and warranted as a result. The social programs are at fault, and the recipients of the social services are as much victims of system as anybody. We never should have expected a different result form the individuals involved.
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They work because 100 kids converging from different parts of the city are easy to individually pick-off.
Once in a mob, they're all but unstoppable. Also you can't arrest a group of 3-4 kids walking down the street just because they're walking down the street so you have to wait until they start breaking the law *within sight*.
Curfews are effective because the *only* people out on the street are people that are breaking the law and they're by definition breaking the law as soon as you see them.
If there i