Ask Slashdot: Which Multiple Desktop Tool For Windows 7? 359
First time accepted submitter asadsalm writes "MacOS has spaces. Windows had no out-of-the-box utility for multiple virtual desktops. Which Multiple Desktop Tool should one use on Windows 7? Sysinternals Desktops, mdesktop, Dexpot, Virtual Dimension, VirtuaWin, Finestra are the few options that I have shortlisted." So, if you use both Windows and multiple desktops, what's your favorite method?
Bigdesk & Backmenu (Score:3)
Desktops from SysInternals (Score:5, Informative)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881 [microsoft.com]
Seems to work pretty well and fast in my limited use.
Re:Desktops from SysInternals (Score:5, Informative)
Plus MS owns Sysinternals so that's the closest thing to an "official" solution you're going to get.
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Re:There are no "GODS" in coding gents... apk (Score:5, Interesting)
No more than there is, say, the best musician or athlete - everyone has strengths, weaknesses & what-not...
Say what you will, but Russinovich is is my ultimate nerd idol. Listening to that man talk about Windows, and go into such amazing detail about how it works, all the way down to the bare metal and then back up through the processor, into the kernel, back out into user mode... it's positively fascinating.
:P
Honest to goodness, the one thing that, not only career-wise but even down on a fundamental level of sheer personal enrichment for the thing I love most, would seemingly allow a quantum leap in what I want to learn would be an apprenticeship under him and the other technical fellows at Microsoft. Just as many here would probably say the same of themselves and Torvalds, I suspect!
Now I'm getting impatient, waiting for the next iteration of Windows Internals to show up at my door. Get moving, Microsoft!
I'm happy with VirtuaWin + two extensions (Score:5, Insightful)
Sysinternals Desktops mentions some limitations up front. I don't remember whether I've tried any of the others.
Re:I'm happy with VirtuaWin + two extensions (Score:5, Informative)
I'll second the recommendation for VirtuaWin. I have a Linux background, and VirtualWin lets me set things up just as well as desktops under Fedora/KDE. Features that I like include:
- ability to define your own hotkeys to swap between desktops (I like ctrl+left/right arrow)
- ability to move windows between desktops
- ability to control window behaviour (e.g. make calendar pop-ups appear on all screens and on top)
- a nice minimalist indicator in the taskbar showing which desktop is active
Windows tends to only "see" the applications on the active desktop which is sometimes good and sometimes not. Occasionally certain applications won't recognise keyboard input when you switch to another desktop, but you can click on another application and then back to make it work. Maybe this bug has been fixed n a newer version.
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I love VirtuaWin. It's unobtrusive, and lets me use keyboard shortcuts to easily swap around. I haven't compared it with others, but I really like the same stuff you do: minimalist interface, ability to move/pin things to other (or all) desktops. I use focus-follows-mouse settings, though, so focus issues have never been a problem for me.
Thanks for the SwitchDesk suggestion, though.
Re:I'm happy with VirtuaWin + two extensions (Score:5, Insightful)
Finestra is my preferred option - it has most of the features you mention (not sure about #3), plus a few:
* Sticky windows
* The ability to automatically put spawned windows onto a specific desktop
* A "switcher" view that shows all virtual desktops by shrinking them to fit on one desktop, and allows you to reorganize windows there
* Numerous ways to represent (and switch) virtual desktops from he taskbar
Additionally, it's free/open source (not sure how many of the others are too; I haven't used VirtuaWin for example): http://vdm.codeplex.com/ [codeplex.com]
GoScreen FTW (Score:3, Informative)
I've been using GoScreen for years and years. It is perfect.
http://www.goscreen.info/
VirtuaWin over Sysinternals, Dexpot, & Virt Di (Score:5, Interesting)
I have tried Sysinternals, Dexpot, and Virtual Dimension. But I am a pretty die-hard fan of VirtuaWin at this point. All other multiple desktop managers have been too slow, bloaty, cause problems with some windows, or just don't have the right features, (which for me is keyboard control and simple ways to move windows from one desktop to another). VirtuaWin wins on speed and stability alone.
Dexpot does everything I want out of the box. (Score:5, Informative)
For a simple system that's pretty much completely hidden from users who don't know about it, Dexpot is hard to beat. Fully configurable keyboard shortcuts for fast switching, moving and copying windows, permanent assigning of windows/programs to certain desktops, and a bunch of plugins (I don't use any of 'em, but they're there if you need/want them) for visual effects and Win7 taskbar integration and such... It's pretty slick.
And most importantly - it's blazing fast.
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Also the window rules. You can setup rules so that certain windows go to a certain desktop or are even copied to them and all kinds of fun stuff like that. I would, for example, have a virtual desktop for work and another for playing around but I'd copy all my IM windows to both desktops automatically.
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I tried Dexpot, but for some reason, it really conflicted with the screen saver required by my company's group policy. Sometimes, the windows would come back all borked, and I'd have to reboot to clear things up.
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I settled on Dexpot when I first set this machine up and have been happy with it. It *does* feel a little bloaty to me, though. I might have to check out VirtuaWin, since it's been getting so many good comments here. As long as I can set hotkeys to what I want and it's reasonably fast, I'll be happy.
Nvidia Drivers (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Nvidia Drivers (Score:5, Informative)
Mac OS X *did* have Spaces before Lion (Score:5, Funny)
But it got nerfed into Mission Control in Lion 10.7 and is half-functional. You can't rename, reorder, arrange, or configure your "spaces" anymore. Shortcut keys still work for now...
They'll probably finish it off in Mountain Goat (10.8) since iOS is perfect and has no desktops so surely Mac OS X doesn't need them either.
*snarl*
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Virtual Desktops don't really need names, "Desktop n" is quite good enough. You can reorder/arrange your spaces by dragging them, the only thing that lion really changed was that all desktops are in a single row now, which makes sense considering the swipe gesture to move between spaces. The addition of full screen applications as their own space more than makes up for the loss of vertically aligned spaces. You can still configure programs to open directly to a certain space so I'm not sure what
Re:Mac OS X *did* have Spaces before Lion (Score:5, Informative)
You can still reorder, arrange, and configure your virtual desktops in Mission Control. Just drag and drop them into the order or arrangement you want while in Mission Control, and if you want to configure which apps appear in which desktops, just drag them onto that desktop while in Mission Control, or else go to that desktop then right-click on the icon in the Dock and set it to appear on that desktop. The only major Spaces feature I'm aware of that was dropped was the ability to arrange your desktops in a two-dimensional fashion. Mission Control only supports a line of desktops.
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Don't forget that they've gimped the ability to drag windows between desktops (now it's limited to windows in the currently active desktop).
Oh, and you can't use the arrow keys to switch between windows in Mission Control (Exposé let you do this).
And you can't arrange your desktops in a grid anymore, only a straight line.
And you can't have keyboard shortcuts to "fullscreen app" desktops (that's what they are after all, just another desktop with the app maximized) which means the fullscreen "feature" of
My preference and a follow-on question (Score:5, Interesting)
As an answer, I've used Virtual Dimensions and Dexpot a lot. Last I used one, I preferred Dexpot.
Now, a slight variant of the question. Are there any truly multi-monitor aware virtual desktops. I mainly am looking for the ability to run the two screens as independent virtual desktops and change them independently.
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GNOME 3...
And that applies to a discussion about Windows how, precisely?
Re:My preference and a follow-on question (Score:4, Insightful)
care to show me how to run solidworks and Inventor on linux without a VM or wine? (sorry a need to do real work with it, and I need real access to the workstation video card).
I might be able to still get ProE, but thats a fair chunk of change extra over Inventor. Sorry but until Linux has a real cad program (with medium pricing), revit, and excel with VBA it is not going to be used at work no matter how good of a desktop it makes.
VirtuaWin (Score:2, Insightful)
ATI might have an answer. (Score:4, Informative)
I was looking around the Catalyst Control Center and found something called HydraVision, which to my knowledge, allows multiple desktops.
Someone who's actually used this will have to confirm though.
multiple machines (Score:2)
On Unix the solution is trivial. On Windows the most convenient solution I have found is to have multiple machines. With the current economy that isn't difficult to accomplish if you're ok with using hardware previously owned by riffed or outsourced employees. This also makes sense from the standpoint that we are fewer people with more responsibilities, so it takes more desktop to do the work and more resources to drive it.
I currently have two desktop machines and two laptops on my desk. One is dedicate
Is there anything resembling the fvwm2 pager? (Score:3)
Despite its age, it solves the problem beautifully and efficiently. If there is anything with the same flexibility and functionality (including edge-scroll, please) for Win 7, I definitely want to know. While I work mostly under Linux, sometimes it has to be Windows, and screen-clutter is a real issue there. I should also say that with less than 3x2 (better 3x3) desktops, I am not really happy.
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Yes. What's usually missing in alternatives on other operating systems is a pager. That's a simple straightforward way of managing windows and workspaces without needing to memorize any new key codes or break your working rhythm with a visual context switch.
mDesktop works great... (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been using it for several months now under pretty heavy load. I use 4 desktops with 3 applications that are persistent across all 4 desktops, as well as a unique application on each desktop. I switch across desktops constantly (see every couple of minutes or less) throughout the day. It is lightweight, efficient, and has never caused me a problem/crashed/etc, even though it is still technically a beta (I think). It works just like a virtual desktop should, as far as I'm concerned.
Why am I not just doin
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I forgot to mention that this handles dual monitors without issue, and goes from docked w/two monitors to undocked with one monitor seamlessly. If you decide to exit it, all applications collapse to your single desktop.
The one issue I have noticed is that if you have an open dialogue box it will likely die on desktop switching. This is a minor annoyance, but not one that has caused me much heartburn (and believe me, I have lots open, two and three copies of visual studio, and similar instances of SSMS run
Why has this not become standard yet? (Score:2)
I'm very surprised that this hasn't become standard. Even if not from the OS, but at least in video drivers. I recall a very nice multiple desktop tool was available with my video drivers on an old 4MB video card I was using with Windows 95. IIRC, it was an S3 Virge.
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Both ati and nvidia have virtual desktop apps for their cards, nview and i think hydravision
VirtuaWin (Score:2)
Windows Pager (Score:5, Informative)
http://windowspager.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
Its a lightweight free one that stays on your taskbar, like the linux ones I am used to. You can move windows either by dragging or right-clicking on the title bar. My favourite feature is "keep on top" that I have become dependent on with my linux desktop. :)
PS to run it, just run it. To make it run every time, put a shortcut in the "startup" folder.
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Hmm, thanks for the recommendation...
WindowsPager still seems to suffer from one of the main drawbacks with VirtualWin... it doesn't work on windows owned by another user. Unfortunately, my current work environment has to have a lot of stuff running as Admin :-/ But now that I know what the problem is, I'll try to do more to rectify that...
I have to agree with the first poster, though, to just use Linux. Compiz Fusion, WindowMaker, Enlightenment, even Metacity offer a lot more control over the windowing
KVM (Score:3)
Get a video card that supports multiple monitors and hook them to a KVM switch. All the software implementations I have used have been so buggy that I stopped using them after a few weeks.
Mostly unrelated: Command Tab in OS X (Score:2)
I am a recent convert to a MacbookPro. Coming from a Windows->OS/2->Linux->XP->OS X history, I am a big fan of Spaces. Unfortunately I'm not a big fan of OS X's handling of Command Tab.
I want to Command Tab between all open windows, not just open applications and then have to do the CMD+~ to get to the next. I want it to work like Windows.
Now, I have been using Witch to do this and it works--most of the time--with Spaces. They have a known issue where sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, this is fine now
goScreen (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been using goScreen (http://www.goscreen.info/) for this purpose for years. I'm not sure how it stacks up to the other utilities you mentioned, but it is highly customizable. My current configuration allows me to use the window map to switch desktops by holding control and dragging my mouse to the right edge of the screen, and I can also switch to any application currently running on any desktop by right clicking on the right edge of the screen. There are of course, tons of other ways you can configure and use the program. I'd wager it can be set up to match almost any desktop switching environment you are currently accustomed to.
There are however a few downsides. For one it's not free, in either sense of the word. For another, it breaks Windows 7's desktop slideshow feature, switching you to an unsaved theme with only one wallpaper in the rotation every time a program changes your desktop resolution. Last but not least, every time you switch desktops, it changes the order of the windows in the taskbar. None of these are major issues for me, although I do really wish they'd get fixed at some point.
Not just desktops (Score:5, Interesting)
Mission Control, née Spaces / Expose, is not just about desktops. Multiple desktops are cool and all, but the better part is what used to be called Expose. Hit F9, and you get a choice of all apps running; select the window you want. Hit F10, and you get a choice of all windows from the current app. To me, that's way more useful than multiple desktops. I don't even bother keeping my desktop neat, anymore. I get the screen I want with one key, one click.
Dexpot kind-of works like that on Windows, but not as smooth. It also had issues with screen locking, but that might be just my machine.
VirtuaWin works for me (Score:5, Informative)
I couple of years ago I was in your position. I went looking for the best Windows desktop manager. I was coming from a Linux / X world and was spoiled with my rich desktop environment, but I am stuck with my corporate laptop with Windows XP. I looked at a few multiple desktop tools and VirtuaWin was the best and most stable for me. The other tool I tried for a while was the tool from Microsoft, but it was worthless.
The features I use most are
- Switch desktop (dah!!) (using Windows Key + Left/Right)
- Move Window to another desktop (via mouse clicks on desktop tray)
- Keep window on top (via mouse clicks on title bar... very handy)
- Always show Window (via mouse click on title bar)
I don't expect much of my desktop switching tool, just that it has the above functionality. It does have one bug that crops up 2 or 3 times a year, and that's that all the windows will appear on one desktop, even hidden windows that should never be seen as a window, like desktop tray items. I am just presuming this is a VirtuaWin bug, but I can live with it.
Sometimes when a process that is linked to a window is under heavy CPU load (like Excel sometimes) VirtuaWin won't be able to handle the Window very well. I think this is more of a MS Windows problem than a VirtuaWin problem, and this issue was extremely bad with the MS Multi Desktop tool.
The developer does not seem to be making updates very frequently, but there are no features or bugs I need fixed.
LiteStep (Score:5, Informative)
I am primarily a Linux user and rarely boot into Windows but when I do, I use LiteStep. Well, I used to. I only recently converted my Windows install from Windows XP to Windows 7 and haven't tried it on Windows 7 yet.
http://litestep.info/ [litestep.info]
It may not be exactly what you're looking for. It gives you an entirely different desktop look and feel. It's modeled after the NeXTSTEP desktop so if you're an AfterStep user in the Unix world, LiteStep would be the Windows equivalent. It does offer multiple desktops which was one of its primary attractions for me. It crashed like mad on Windows 98 but was rock solid for me on Windows 95 and Windows XP. The only current support for Windows 7 is in an experimental build you may want to try out. It looks like the project may have stalled but it might still be worth looking into.
FFS, Bloody Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok, most Linux WMs have a virtual desktop manager built in, the Gnome one (or even the CDE one going back to HPUX or Solaris) are perfectly adequate, but for a Windows user you might as well suggest kicking themselves repeatedly in the nuts if that's the only advice you have to offer. Windows doesn't have a virtual desktop option built in, but Linux does, awesome, that's 1:0 to Linux but still totally fucking useless.
For my part, I've been looking for a similar solution. I've played with one or two but not found anything particularly useful. The OP's post was useful in itself in that he posted links to the ones he's checked out himself. A quick look suggests that Virtual Dimension looks good - I'll be checking this out myself. I have 3 monitors, two of which are generally dedicated to email and my knowledge base. PuTTY sessions generally sprinkled across the three. Being able to switch my entire screen environment for particular tasks would be useful.
Extra info for Linux fucktards: I'm a 20-year Linux admin and systems programmer who pretty much HATES Unix window managers and prefers Windows as my main desktop platform. I've used lots of Unix desktops and frankly they're mostly a disaster in my opinion.
And those of you who have posted useful info in response to the OP's question: thanks, very useful.
Blackbox for windows (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally I use blackbox for windows, although you need to spend a lot of time configuring your UI the way you want it. The default is abysmal for anyone who is used to the traditional windows UI, it's possible to get it to be pretty close to the traditional windows UI (except better).
There are many versions of blackbox for windows. The one I use is bb4win:
http://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/
Try AltDesk from Aston (Score:2)
I have used AltDesk [astonshell.com] since around 2001. It was the closest I could find to the old FVWM pager and easily allows apps to be moved from one desktop to the other.
Dexpot looks good, wish I could have used sdesk (Score:2)
In Windows Seven, I've been using Dexpot, and it does almost everything I want.
However, It's unfortunate that Jan Tomasek's "sdesk" application no longer works. He stopped working on it a little more than a decade ago, and it continued to work all the way through WinXP, but now it just fails to work in Win7. For desktop managers on Windows, that was my favorite. Dexpot works pretty well, but it still is missing a couple of features that worked well in sdesk.
bblean (Score:4, Interesting)
VirtualDimension (Score:3)
Back when I was still using XP (I've since switched to Linux and am getting by without multiple desktops on my home Windows 7 machine), VirtualDimension worked pretty well for me. You can give shortcut keys (I used Win+1-0) to switch between them, and it works by hiding all windows except those on the 'current desktop'. Some applications (most notably web browsers) would get sometimes get stuck on all the desktops if they were summoned to appear by another program while you were looking at a different desktop than the one you had put them on. Reason would seem to hang if I switched desktops while its file open dialog was open. But once I learned to avoid these situations it was perfectly useable.
I also used SlickRun and had each virtual desktop span 2 monitors and didn't run into any conflicts.
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Then why answer the question? To hear yourself speak?
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And that's why Linux users still have such a reputation for being such insufferable sanctimonious assholes.
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In government service, OP makes sense. I served in the Air Force through the transition from various Unix terminals to Windows and it's really quite simple.
You give people orders and they obey them because they have no choice. There is no obligation to heed any whining.
There is a place for heeding users, and there is a place for giving orders and expecting them to be obeyed.
Re:Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, people like that make the rest of us look bad. I'm a Linux user and if Windows works well for you, I wish you the best.
The problem with assholes is that they're fucking loud, and they drown out the rest of us. I simply use Linux most of the time and thus don't really know the best answer to this question, so I keep my mouth shut.
Always remember that there's usually a silent majority that just doesn't have time for the bullshit.
Because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because there is no company "behind linux" pushing it into "marketing". This creates a catch-22 where people don't develop the "popularist crap" for linux because there is no market share, and "average" people don't buy the linux systems because there is no "crapware" for it.
Also, of course, since the big makers (Dell, Gateway, etc) are enjoined from selling linux-equipped desktop machines under penalty of losing their Microsoft OEM licenses, there are no "sales figures" for Linux Desktop Systems period. Microsoft "owns" the channels from which Linux Desktop Systems would emerge into actual conciousness.
Finally, -every- topic, user community, position, and theory has its share of insufferable sanctimonious assholes. Your use of the "Or" in your missive established a false dichotomy. You don't have to be -wrong- to be an I.S.A. 8-)
Re:Because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, of course, since the big makers (Dell, Gateway, etc) are enjoined from selling linux-equipped desktop machines under penalty of losing their Microsoft OEM licenses, there are no "sales figures" for Linux Desktop Systems period. Microsoft "owns" the channels from which Linux Desktop Systems would emerge into actual conciousness.
You may wanna back up a bit and do your research there, friend... I'm typing this on a Dell laptop that's about 6 months old, and which came with Ubuntu LTS preinstalled (Vostro V130n). They don't actively market it, because they don't want customers calling them to complain that their Windows-only software doesn't work on it, but they do sell it on consumer-class devices, on both desktop and laptop form factors, and they go out of their way to make sure that as much of their hardware as possible is supported by Linux, even if they don't provide the OS with it.
Marketing is a large part of why Linux isn't taking off as much as people may like. But it's not the only reason... I know several people who have switched back to Windows, because application X doesn't work right in Linux. Application support is the reason Linux isn't winning on the market, not pure sales figures. Hence why Linux is winning in server space: it has the application support.
Re:Because... (Score:5, Insightful)
What I've come to realize (speaking as a Linux fan but not a full-time user) is that a lot of Linux supporters like to blame everyone else for the lack of Linux's success on the desktop, EXCEPT Linux itself. They don't seem to acknowledge the fact that perhaps, just perhaps, it's the kernel developer's insistence on the lack of a stable ABI/API, the lack of support for commercial developers and the often hostile attitude of the community to said developers who write proprietary software, that might make Linux distros undesirable for the developers, and so the lack of software/hardware support and indeed, polish, ends up pushing people away.
But no, it's everyone else's fault. The Linux ecosystem is surely not at fault right? As long as people keep believing this, nothing will get better (and since it's such a pervasive idea that it's everyone ELSE who's at fault, no wonder uptake of Linux desktops is not only at a standstill, but in some reports is regressing.) It's fucking disturbing how many people think Linux is good enough for mainstream users, and ignore the legitimate complains people have about it. Personally I'm prepared to work with its deficiencies but at least I'm not blind to them!
Re:Because... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, people who try Linux usually quite like it (my retired mother does). What makes the difference (why she can successfully use Linux better than Windows) is that I can support her when things go wrong. That makes all the difference in the world. When someone uses Linux, and even if they like it, they are generally stuck at the first hurdle they encounter since they don't know anyone who can help them out. It turns out that the same is true in the Windows world too. Most ordinary people simply can't maintain their computers no matter what operating system is running. Luckily for them there are enough semi-clued Windows users that can usually help out. Without these kind people helping each other then Windows usage would also be dead in the water too (people would dabble with Windows and then eventually find something that worked pretty much trouble-free - like Macs).
That's the reality, most people don't know how to maintain their computers if anything remotely challenging arises. It is a problem of the network effect not yet kicking in for Linux, and possibly never will. Of course, I'm only considering desktop Linux usage here - on servers and handheld devices (for Android is just a customized Java on Linux) Linux is a raging success (even thrashing Windows in the handheld department). The Linux users may be arrogant, but that is not the reason why ordinary users don't stick with Linux (if they have even heard about it - that's that marketing thing again).
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Seconded, partly.
I'm quite good with Windows systems, through years of working with them but, even having dabbled in various flavors of Linux, I still go back to Windows because it's what I know and does what I want it to, mostly. (I fall more towards the consumer end of the spectrum, which also makes a considerable difference.)
The times I've been working with Linux and needed help, it generally came from people with a vastly superior impatient attitude (understandable; I am wasting their time on what, for
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No, it's because the 'buy an application' model is completely broken. It barely works for walled gardens like Apple's app store. The idea that software is a 'product' you can put in a box and sell is the wrong way to be thinking about the world and creates an incentive system for thousands of scammers.
Joke or troll?
I yearn for the days where I could go and buy a box with a disc (or disk!) and manual.
They got money. I got software that worked. I got documentation! I could even install it multiple places, resell it, whatever.
Feels like hearing my grandpa talk about how at the age of 12 he would just run across town barefoot, with his friends, and their rifles, to go shoot at cans by the creek.
Re:Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
How is it the right answer to tell someone who develops and maintains C#.net applications built for Windows and compiled with VS2010 to use Linux?
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Maybe you should grow up a bit and quit treating computers as a sodding religion.
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I liken people who take this subject as seriously as you to people who should find more meaningful causes to pursue. Seriously, Microsoft have acted like an unpleasant multinational - because they are - and Apple have acted like an unpleasant multinational - because they are - and if Ubuntu or Red Hat became big enough they'd act like unpleasant multinationals. And in the meantime, life goes on and we use whichever OS suits us at that moment without getting into flamewars online...
No offense meant, not real
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Either way, it's fitting that you used a toy analogy. After all; Linux is, if anything, a tinker-toy desktop OS.
...which is presumably why over 90% of the top 500 supercomputers in the world run Linux, and all but one run something from the *NIX/BSD family.
But yeah, Windows is srs bzns.
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Or maybe you shouldn't assume that everyone's needs are the same as yours.
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BTW, Unix variants have had multiple desktops since long before Mac OS, OS X, or any Windows variant had them.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Windows has it built in... (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows has it built in. Go to the start menu, do "switch user", and, bingo! A whole new desktop...
Re:Windows has it built in... (Score:4, Funny)
Windows has it built in. Go to the start menu, do "switch user",
Or just switch on RDP.
Then you'll soon find plenty of other users enjoying your desktop.
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They (Macs) still don't have a very good implementation either.
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Apple still commits some changes in OSX back into FreeBSD. It is still Unix at its heart.
Re:Linux (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Linux (Score:4, Informative)
Eh? Do you actually know the slightest thing you're talking about?
The kernel is a modified Mach kernel, a descendent of BSD Unix - unlike Linux, which has no code inherited from Unix at all. The userspace is almost entirely the FreeBSD userspace, with plenty of GNU tools thrown on top. The only thing that remins from the proprietary OS released in 1984 is the overall look of it. Other than the graphics layers, OSX is very much an updated version of Next. OS1-9 were very definitely nothing to do with Unix. OSX is Unix, unlike Linux which is merely Unix-like. Sure, it doesn't use X, but X doesn't make something Unix.
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I know this might come as a huge shock, but linux does not suit everyone's needs.
If you have something useful to say, say it. But don't waste the poster's time with such a useless answer.
Yep... (Score:2)
Windows: for those who just don't know when quitting is the better option... (I think this is the new Microsoft slogan for Windows 8... 8-)
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The asker specified WINDOWS 7.
For that matter, you didn't even state a method of doing that in ANY operating system, you just said don't use windows.
If you want to know why I'm pointing this out, it's so hopefully others (maybe even you) will realize what's wrong with your post and avoid doing such again. I know, I'm being overly optimistic, but if someone doesn't at least try once in a while, they might as well just bu
Re:Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Will someone please tell me that using Linux doesn't necessarily mean you have to act like an asshole? Or maybe there something about gnome or kde that requires it or something?
It's like the 15 year old boy who is getting ready to go to his first prom and pick up his date and asks his mom if he looks OK and his mom says, "You should have gotten a haircut. I know that's not the answer you likely wanted to hear, but unfortunately, I don't have any answers you want to hear. Plus, you're too young to be dating."
He learns very quickly never to ask his mom anything serious again.
I really don't want people to learn that you really shouldn't ask Linux users for any computer advice because it's more likely you're going to hear about their ideological stance than anything actually useful. Not that changing from Windows to Linux couldn't be useful, but maybe we shouldn't assume that the person asking the question is completely clueless about the relative merits of Linux vs Windows and has other reasons that he needs to use Windows and if he is completely clueless about the relative merits of Linux vs Windows than maybe it means the Linux community has work to do besides belittling someone who comes to you with an honest question.
"I'm having trouble playing this Black Keys CD on my new Linux system, do you think you could help me set up audio on this system? I think I may have done something wrong."
"No, I won't help you, because you shouldn't listen to retro, derivative crap like the Black Keys, you should be listening to Zed Bias or Datsik. If you want my help, first get a clue about good music."
"Gee, what an asshole. I might as well go back to Windows Vista so I don't have to deal with jackoffs like him."
Re:Not a troll, IMHO, just "outside th box" thinki (Score:4, Insightful)
No the guy is a roll. The person didn't want to go away from Windows. He was asking which of the options he.listed was better. Captain Aspergers was just bring an asshole.
The best answers to questions (Score:5, Informative)
The best answer to questions often invalidate the question's assumptions. For instance (while daring hyperbole) "How can I cut down on beating my wife?" is a flawed question because it presumes that a "lesser" quantity of wife beating will make it okay.
In applicaiton to current circumstances, trying to patch a "multiple desktop" abstraction onto Windows is tehcnically probelematic because the underlying OS is -not- intended to support that modality. It can be done, but it has some very negative corner cases and it consists of making the display "lie about" the underlying condition of the system.
To compare and contrast:
Since the various windows in a X-server implementation are -factually- distinct all the way back to the OS-level process abstraction, the practical mechanics of de-realizing the window (withdrawing it from the display without destroying it) is a real, first-class operation. This is true even before considering things like staring multiple X-servers on different virtual terminals etc. That is, under linux you can make semantic -or- programatic desktops, or both, to acheive the "multiple desktop" effect.
Since Windows uses a common event queue to post information to all windows, and that event queue goes all the way to the bone in the OS (it is the same event queue that, say, asynchronous IO events are returned with), the windows cannot be de-realized, they can only be hidden. So in this case the "multiple desktops" are illusory. This may be good enough for casual work, but it is terrible if you need to actually isolate actions between the actual "desktops". One of the primary symptoms of this is that in the Windows virtual desktops, windows "on desktop X" can spontaniously reassert themselves onto whatever desktop (e.g. desktop Y) you are seeming to view. Hidden modal windows can seize things up oddly and so forth.
So while the original poster, it may safely be assumed, was being troll-like in tone, he wasn't particularly incorrect.
(Of course the identical troll, with no explination, occured to me when I read the main article... I just held it in... because someone already had it covered... 8-)
Re:The best answers to questions (Score:4, Informative)
MSDN disagrees with you. [microsoft.com]
While Microsoft's implementation of multiple desktops is far from perfect it's incorrect to say they didn't intend to support it when the API is both present and clearly documented.
Furthermore, every window on Windows is associated with a desktop. I've yet to see a case where a window appeared on the wrong desktop or the input was handled incorrectly between desktops.
Questionable (e.g. incorrect) Citation... (Score:4, Interesting)
If they really agreed a desktop pager would be in the OS.
The call you cite goes back to Win 2k, but 11 years later we still have no official Microsoft support. If you follow your own citation and become "historically aware" -and- read the call description, you will realize that this call -does- create a desktop, but its intended use is to create the desktop you get when you have logged in using control-alt-delete etc.
That is, it doesn't create a "virtual desktop" within the existing framework of display objects for an active user with an active desktop, it creates "a new desktop" as the instance of the regular old desktop that the user gets when he logs in.
You will also notice that it allocates "the desktop" from "the shared heap common to all desktops". This is an example of how the Window archetecture useses common intermingled resources all the way to the bone, as I stated. One of hte reasons that Wndows is so poor at security is that these common resource pools let programs "peek over the fence" or "toss data over the fence" at each other.
So contemplate how "CreateDesktop" and "CreateVirtualDesktop" would be different calls... Blindly providing citations to similar seeming API entry points does not a platfrom technology prove.
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If they really agreed a desktop pager would be in the OS.
Why? Almost no one would use the feature so there's no point to build it in.
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Why? Almost no one would use the feature so there's no point to build it in.
If there was such an utter lack of demand, then nobody would have asked which one of the third party virtual desktop solutions is the best.
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So Windows can't do it as well as *nix. Explain that and why if you want to.
But if you want to emulate it on Windows 7 here are several products.... x,y,z... which is best at it? Is still a perfectly valid question, and the answer is x y or z. Not ... use linux.
To turn the tables: we often see people ask "what is the best way to run Windows App X on Linux"
And then we get people suggesting Vmware, VirtualBox, WINE, Cedega, and whatever else ... oh is it a .dotnet command line utility.. actually mono can run
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The best answer to questions often invalidate the question's assumptions. For instance (while daring hyperbole) "How can I cut down on beating my wife?" is a flawed question because it presumes that a "lesser" quantity of wife beating will make it okay.
Except his question was nothing like your strawman. And the guy was being a straight up asshole.
Re:The best answers to questions (Score:4, Interesting)
I haven't written any code using these functions (I doubt many people have) but they are there.
Correct. It is used by Windows itself for the logon/lock screen, for the "switch user" (since XP) feature and since Vista for the elevation prompt. The latter is a security feature designed to isolate the prompt so that processes cannot trick the user into clicking the "ok" button.
I've actually used that API to create a program which could restrict my sons computer usage. When 3hrs had passed the desktop would switch to a "warning desktop" telling him his time was up. It could then switch back to his game with only minimal interruption, allowing him to conclude before the "block" desktop turned up and/or the computer shut down. (As it turns out I never actually deployed it as I believe more in offering alternative quality time and brokering agreements. It worked much better. But the geek in me needed to explore it).
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That my friend, is the sign of either a troll, or an incompetent debater.
It is true that his sig mentions where to go to get a developer for several things, one of which is Linux, but that means nothing, it's just a sig.
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You have as many as you like! They are dynamically spawned - the number in use, plus 1.
Now, if you like the fixed number of namable workspaces, with cyclical arangement? There are trivial shell extensions that provide this behavoir.
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Thanks. But how do you change desktops? How do you move applications to a new desktop?
On Gnome 2 the bottom right corner of the screen lets me change to another desktop ("workspace", in Gnome-speak). And I can move an application to a different workspace by right-clicking on the title bar. But Gnome 3 doesn't seem to have these features. No doubt there is an easy answer...?
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Sure. Don't use GNOME 3 ;)
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Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Up/Down arrow - Move the current window to a different workspace
source [multimediaboom.com]
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Multiple desktops are sometimes useful, but what I would really like on Windows is the ability to pin applications so they are "always on top". If anyone has any suggestions for that, I'd be very pleased to know about them.
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Dunno about always on top (I'm sure there's a solution), but last time I used VirtualWin it did let you put a window on all workspaces (aka sticky or pin'd depending on the app). It may have always on top as well.
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of any modern desktop OS.
Choice between WIndows, Mac and a Linux distro... not really such a brilliant assertion.
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640k monitors should be enough for anyone.