HP's Core WebOS Enyo Team Going To Google 106
benfrog writes "The core of HP's Enyo team (responsible for webOS's HTML5-based app framework) is heading to Google. What they will be doing at Google is unclear right now, but everyone is speculating that they might be active in developing something webOS-based for Android."
Hopefully with UI improvements to come (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hopefully with UI improvements to come (Score:5, Interesting)
dear god, the ADS, the ADS! (Score:2)
It's a real eye-opening nightmare when I have to resort to using a browser with no ad blocking. Probably why my parents don't use the web as much as we do.
This is not acceptable.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:dear god, the ADS, the ADS! (Score:5, Insightful)
Blocking Ads is a result of too many sites trying too hard to "monetize" a site. It is what I call the "rule of assholes". The Rule of Assholes goes like this: Any thing that is legitimate and good can be ruined by assholes. In fact, that is my definition of what an Asshole is; they ruin it (for normal values of "it") for everyone else.
Ads done right, are unobtrusive and might even ad value to a site. However Assholes come along and splatter and plaster the most annoying adverts all over negligible sites. Worse is the fact that often times they don't even vet the advertisers so that they become a vector of malware payloads, and ruin it for everyone else. The result is that you HAVE to run your browser with AdBlock enabled just to have a reasonable surfing experience.
You want to run ads on your site? Sell banner/ad space yourself, serve it yourself and most adblock software won't bother blocking your adverts. It costs more in time and energy, but that is the cost of all the assholes in the world ruining things for everyone else.
Re:dear god, the ADS, the ADS! (Score:5, Insightful)
often times they don't even vet the advertisers so that they become a vector of malware payloads, and ruin it for everyone else.
This and the fact that third party ad server response can significantly delay page loading is why I pretty much only whitelist sites that handle ads in house. Once a site sells space to a network that partners with other networks (which most do), it becomes anyone's guess what will come out.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm glad to see somebody mention ad server response times. That is by far the biggest factor in slow page loads for me. I don't hesitate to move on to the next site when a site is sitting there waiting for an ad server to deliver content.
I don't mind too much opening multiple tabs in order to let one load on my desktop, but it really sucks on my phone.
Just yesterday I installed Adblock (Or Adblock Plus, whichever it was) on Firefox for Android; hopefully it's as good as the desktop version of ABP.
Re: (Score:2)
Well said, i only run an ad blocker because of all the intrusive ads (especially those with video and/or sound)...
When it was simple static banner and text ads i didn't have a problem.
Re: (Score:2)
and that is the main reason everybody should be browsing with at least an adblocker (the less technical, and with noscript for those who can handle it) in addition to their antivirus/antimalware software.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The ones who can figure out how to block ads and choose to block them typically aren't the target market for those ads, so there's no real loss to the advertiser (and in fact the wise advertisers might prefer it that way since they may get charged if the ad is shown or if the person accidentally clicks on the ad).
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, all we need is one big, honking HOSTS file.
Re: (Score:1)
sites are paid for with ads.
Ads pay for nothing. We do, via higher price products to pay for the ads and the middlemen who make them. And we pay again with our time and attention.
Unsolicited ads are just the web's really crappy micropayment system and I for one would jump for joy if they died.
The idea that ads or insurance pay for anything at all is one of the biggest scams ever perpetuated in the modern world.
The curse of WebOS (Score:4, Insightful)
WebOS has a beautiful UI strategy, for alerts and multitasking. It however had crappy apps....
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Not just the card model, but the 'swipe' ui is fantastic. Swipe up to go to the settings/apps/etc, swipe left and right to access other programs. It's the only UI/OS I've seen that can work without a single physical button.
Android looks to be transitioning away - they've went from 4 physical buttons to 3 software buttons but they're still buttons.
Re: (Score:2)
I indeed found the Cards model 100% gimmicky. Requires a full screen redraw every time you want to switch apps, including cutesy animations for just a bit more delays. Looks nice the first handful of times, makes you want to beat some sense into the damn machine afterwards.
Apart from those Cards, I'm not sure I noticed anything much to justify all the hoopla about WebOS. Sold my Touchpad and got an Android Tablet.
Best thing that can happen is those guys get mixed into the Android team and enrich it.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know what you mean with gimmicky. Application windows (or cards) can be perfectly dealt by using openGL surfaces, for example, if the "window/card" subsystem does so. Being the hardware capable - and this one is, - it is just a matter of letting OpenGL perform the matrix transformations and show the card reduced.
Which is pretty much what MacOS and some Linux window systems do.
Re: (Score:2)
Gimmicky because the cards look cool, but using them requires lots of full-screen redraws, whereas a start menu a la win7 provides the same functionnality, in a much faster/resource efficent, if less cute, way. Hence gimmicky: it provides no functionality but only a "oh, shinyyyyy !" effect.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I find them quite useful. Like having the windows showing up their contents even when in miniature mode in mac os, or that bad copy of aero in win vista/7, when it works.
I cannot think how start menu on win7 is useful at all, unless when it is set to look like winXP, the new versions are terrible.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, I have mine setup like XP.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not arguing that iOS isn't a "walled garden", but there are apps out there that will allow you to tunnel VNC (or even RDP) over SSH. I use iSSH [apple.com] and it's freakin awesome. I've used several other SSH apps, but iSSH so far is the best IMHO.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not arguing that iOS isn't a "walled garden", but there are apps out there that will allow you to tunnel VNC (or even RDP) over SSH. I use iSSH and it's freakin awesome. I've used several other SSH apps, but iSSH so far is the best IMHO.
$9.99?
That is a joke, right?
Re: (Score:1)
How dare you suggest I should pay someone else for their work in putting together a great system?!
Re: (Score:2)
that isn't a problem .the problem i shouldn't be forced to pay for it whne there are great free version that do the same thing better that the only reason i cant use is because the device manufacterer don't like the gpl or other simmiler licence. i am fine paying for app but don't force me to only use the pay apps when there are better free alternatives avalible.
Re: (Score:1)
While you're checking around for software, see if you can find an app that capitalizes sentences for you.
And maybe a spell checker for good measure.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not arguing that iOS isn't a "walled garden", but there are apps out there that will allow you to tunnel VNC (or even RDP) over SSH. I use iSSH and it's freakin awesome. I've used several other SSH apps, but iSSH so far is the best IMHO.
$9.99?
That is a joke, right?
That's the price of a few Starbucks Lattes, and I spend a lot more time with ssh than I do drinking a latte.
But yeah, I agonize over whether or not I really want to pay $9.99 , $1.99, or even $0.99 for an app that I'll use every day, but think nothing of buying an $8 drink after work that I'll enjoy once. Since I'm paid by the hour, the few minutes I spend reading the reviews to decide if I really want to pay $1 for the app costs me more than just buying it and trying it out.
Re: (Score:1)
... Since I'm paid by the hour, the few minutes I spend reading the reviews to decide if I really want to pay $1 for the app costs me more than just buying it and trying it out.
And thus, an entire world of shitty $1 apps is born and continues to survive.
Oh, and about you being paid by the hour - there is somebody out there that will do things cheaper. Like spend time with your mother or raise your children. Seriously, your method of pay cannot be compared to your time off. That's apples and oranges.
Re:Hopefully with UI improvements to come (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want SSH for free, you could try that SSH Mobile app I guess. Or, if you don't like the walled garden you can jailbreak and hope you don't come across any rouge free apps. But for me, the handful of admin apps I've purchased have totally paid for themselves by not having to drive back home or into the office to solve issues that required some minor intervention.
Re: (Score:1)
So you're comparing the same free applications on Desktops (TightVNC, RealVNC, PuTTY, etc) to the $10 from the store ($3 of which doesn't even go to the dev, who could use that to make the product even better) - some of which have similar support? The developer and APL would like to thank you for throwing away your money.
Nice argument.
Congratulations, you prove that people like to throw away money on that ecosystem.
Re: (Score:2)
If you want SSH for free, you could try that SSH Mobile app I guess. Or, if you don't like the walled garden you can jailbreak and hope you don't come across any rouge free apps.
Are the red apps more dangerous or something? Or is it apps that wear lipstick?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have to admit iSSH is a damned fine app. In thirty years of buying software, it sits near the top of the I've purchased.
Probably copyrighted (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'd like to see every "UX designer" on the planet hung, drawn and quartered.
If WebOS is any good it sure as heck isn't down to that bunch of latte-sipping fops.
Re: (Score:2)
Phlaiming skulzzzzzzz!!eleventyone! (Score:2)
What's wrong with Android? If it's that options aren't grouped together logically, the most commonly used menu items are seven levels down and terminology is inconsistent the you want a human factors engineer/ergonomist.
If you think buttons should react when pressed by sparkling like a crystal being scanned with a laser - no, make that two lasers, one red working from left to right and one green working right to left - then I guess you can find your local Starbucks.
Re: (Score:2)
Would a dynamic gradient fill help? (Score:2)
Having not used any of those things I can't comment with certainly, but it seems those would be the kind of issues that would be beyond the comprehension of most UX fucktards.
Re: (Score:2)
Video [youtube.com] showing card based task switching. It's important to note that these aren't launching, things in cards are apps that are actively running. Also, by throwing away the card, it quits the app, that simple. In Android, some apps have a quit menu item, some don't. By using the "
Re:Hopefully with UI improvements to come (Score:5, Informative)
Uh... Matias Duarte, the guy behind the Web OS UI, already switched over to Android about 2 years ago. Gingerbread was the first release his changes started to make it into, and the major UI overhaul in Honeycomb and ICS were largely influence by him.
Re:Hopefully with UI improvements to come (Score:4, Interesting)
Yep. Mathias Duarte is the single reason I went Android over iOS when coming from webOS. He is slowly but surely "webOS-ifying" Android. Taking the very best UI elements from webOS and merging them slowly into Anrdroid. Expect to see the software button lessen and lessen and more Gesture based UI elements to come in. Eventually even the card metaphor may make a comeback. Full and Proper multitasking FTW!
Re: (Score:2)
Expect to see the software button lessen and lessen and more Gesture based UI elements to come in.
That's already there. Example one: notification drawer swipe down to open (been there since forever, though), and now in ICS you can also remove notifications by swiping them off to the side. Example two: Chrome Beta, where swiping left and right from the edge of the screen switches tabs; and in the tab list, swiping aside is used to close tab. Example three: task switcher in ICS. It's pretty much webOS cards, except stacked vertically. Again, swipe aside to close.
Re: (Score:1)
That isn't exactly a great recommendation for him. Putting Ics on my nexus s made it much slower, removed usability from the browser, provided no useful new features, an ugly theme, and added pointless annoying eye candy. If that's what the teams about, keep them the fuck away from Android.
Re: (Score:2)
Further Erosion fo HP (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
HP is dead. The only thing they have left is there desktop business they tried to get out of. Their server software is horrendously over-complicated and is just a terrible java enabled GUI on top of open source projects you can get for free (as evident by the fact they sent people to a recent conference to look at puppet to replace their current server automation software underpinnings which was CFengine2). Their servers are terribly overpriced with not nearly as good a warrantee as even Dells. Their person
Re: (Score:2)
Having had two midrange HP printers have formatter boards kick the bucket after just a couple of years, I'm not even sure what kind of printer company they will be. They were once my first choice, but now.... They're fading fast.
Re: (Score:2)
HP is destined to go right back to being a Printer company.
. . . you mean right back to selling oscillators out of a garage . . .
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
HP printing gear is rebadged Canon hardware and the software comes from HCL. Xerox has taken this direction too, except the decision to rebadge Canon gear hasn't been officially taken yet because they still belive HCL can deliver the hardware projects they took over.. HCL has two buildings in Chennai within yards of each other: one for the Xerox work and one for the HP work.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Android - Exactly. My guess is that there's a 'bit' of financial consideration in jumping ship, but anyone with talent has a strong desire to see their stuff in action; who knows the outcome with HP at this point.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
All HP employees, please report to to the lifeboat.
All HP board member, please report to the helicopter pad.
Your gold parachutes are waiting.
Plea to Google (Score:5, Interesting)
For heaven's sake, PLEASE adopt the WebOS UI. It is easy to use and intuitive. Let the Android UI die the death it overwhelmingly deserves.
I recently went to the local Sprint store to ask whether the batteries on my wife's and my HTC Evo 4G need replacement. In passing asked the tech what things I could do to extend battery life, in particular how I could avoid leaving apps running. Here's what I was told: "If you leave an app by hitting the 'home' button, it will keep running. If you leave it with the back arrow button, it will shut down." I've been training myself to do that, and what a proctalgia it is, especially with the web browser and apps that invoke it! (Do I really have to back all the way out of the sequence of pages I've viewed, potentially reloading graphics or Flash animations?) With WebOS, it's easy--if an app has a window, it has a process. Flick the window up and off the screen, and you're telling it to shut down.
Re: (Score:2)
- I like being able to have two apps open. You can easily copy and paste between the two instead of having to launch and close each app multiple times.
On my Galaxy Nexus, there is a button on the bottom right that acts as essentially an alt-tab switcher. The apps do not open and close, and I can switch back and forth cutting and pasting as much as I want.
I like being able to flick apps I no longer need off of the screen. It is both simple and mentally satisfying. Hitting the back button multiple times in Android just to close an app is clunky, at best.
Again, on my Galaxy Nexus, I click the app switcher button at the bottom and any app I want to close I just drag out of the list.
Have you ever used Android?
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Except most apps aren't well behaved, many will hold open wakelocks.
Oh and security- I may want to game my phone to someone and not allow him access to my previously opened banking app.
Oh and phones don't have infinite memory, so out means a delay in the future when you run out.
And it's different from how every other OS in the world works, and differences without good reason are confusing
It was a bad design mistake, probably their biggest one. They need to reverse it badly.
Re: (Score:1)
Using a task killer is stupid and pointless in Android and can even reduce battery life if the app just restarts itself over and over. Android is a real multi-tasking operating system so the best idea if you are getting poor battery life and you think it might be some app is to go into the settings and see what is running in the background. It evens tells you which apps use the most memory. If an app is misbehaving, uninstall it and rate it accordingly in the app store.
Re: (Score:3)
As an Android dev, that's wrong. The app remains running no matter how you leave it. It is only paused, not destroyed
Re: (Score:2)
You've also just described Harmatton, the linux OS behind the Nokia N9. Check out the 2nd thumbnailed video from the left, on the bottom of this page [nokia.com]. FWIW Microsoft paid Nokia a billion dollars to bury this phone and OS so no one can choose it over Nokia's newer WP7 phones, like the Lumia 900 with very similar hardware, albeit with lighter specs. (no front-facing camera, no 64GB option, so you're stuck at 16GB with no expansion on W
Re: (Score:1)
From the home screen (or another app, if you forget). Hold home, if vibration is on it will vibrate twice. The task switcher will come up. Swipe an app's thumbnail right or left to kill it.
Most previous android phones could do pretty much the same thing, but IIRC it took an extra button press somewhere. It's been a while since I've run Froyo or Gingerbread on my Vibrant (same generation as your Evo).
Third-party roms are great.
Sail Away, Sail Away, sail away (Score:2)
Did anybody else read that as "WebOS Enya team"
Re: (Score:2)
Android inside webOS (Score:5, Interesting)
There's been talk of adding an Android emulation layer to webOS that would allow devices like the Touchpad to run Android apps. My guess is this meeting might have something to do with this. Hopefully. WebOS is an amazing platform but the lack of apps has all but killed it. Being able to run Android apps side-by-side with webOS apps would literally breath life back into the OS and allow it to move forward as a serious mobile contender.
Re: (Score:2)
I miss WebOS (Score:2)
I reluctantly "upgraded" to an android phone, from a Palm Pre, only because the palm pre was wearing out (which is pretty much the only reason I upgrade my phones every 1.5 years). After 6 months, I wanted to go back to the Pre. Yes, apps were limited, but I dont use most of the apps on android anyway. I use email, messaging, and web 90% of the time, and WebOS integrated my communications so seamlessly and it multitasked so intuitively that I didnt much care that it did not have a million apps. And it h
Re: (Score:2)
What do you mean by wear out? I find it hard to believe your phone would be unusable after only 1.5 years. I go over 2 years with all my phones and only replace them if I want something new, they still work fine after that time.
Re: (Score:1)
The original palm pre was poorly engineered, the slider was a mess and flex cables were a prominent point of failure (had some issues with power managment too). further revisions improved the design but early adopter certainly got sub-par hardware. The pre plus addressed some of the most notable quality issues. The pre 2 improved further and the pre 3 was a completely new and much more solid design. Pixi phones were simple and tough. The touchpad had some problems with the housing (brittle plastic, hairline
Re: (Score:2)
It's incredible to me how much better made the Palm Pre Plus was than the Pre. Mine has been dropped and has tumbled and is cracked in a bunch of places but holds together. My girlfriend had one that cracked when I opened the battery cover (yes, properly) and the cracks travelled until they hit the screen.
Re: (Score:2)
To me that seems like not an improvement. I bought a Pre3, but... I'm concerned that now instead of just looking like hell from being dropped, I'm going to end up with broken glass.
Not good news from my perspective (Score:3)
I was hoping a non-Google/Apple machine would get behind WebOS to push it as a 3rd option to those gorillas. Assimilation of the tech team probably eliminates that possibility.
Or the other way around (Score:1)