Is Phoenix the Next Silicon Valley? 555
SpicyBrownMustard writes "There's no secret to a rising level of 'Silicon Valley fatigue' lately, and the new reality show certainly isn't helping. And with hacker hostels packing in twenty somethings fueling the 'it's okay to fail' incubator culture that now is actually hurting startups, it's no wonder weariness with the culture is setting in. Forbes.com asks the question: Is Phoenix The Next Silicon Valley? The article covers a startup with a couple names you might know, who picked Phoenix due to its much lower cost of living and different quality of life. The startup's CTO, 'explains that having so much more financial freedom lowers the stress associated with working for a startup, as he can enjoy work/live balance.' Their location certainly didn't hurt fundraising, as they managed $2 million in seed capital. Are we indeed moving on from Silicon Valley for tech startups?"
LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Phoenix ?!? Has anyone ever been there?
This is pure long-shot PR from someone with real estate interests..
Re:LOL (Score:4, Funny)
The next Silicon Valley (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been in this field for a long-long time
I was in the Silicon Valley when the thing got started and I benefited handsomely
IMHO, the "Silicon Valley Phenomenon" is a one-time happening
It happened because of many factors
* The concentration of critical mass of coherent talents - mostly comprised of remnants of the hippies with their Groovy mindset, and earlier batch of the baby boomers who were, in one way or another, influenced by the hippies culture
* It occurred at a time when the "change culture" finally arrived at the tech scene - with hobbyists earnestly believed that they could build their own gadgets with solders and breadboards
* And the Silicon Valley happened to provide a venue, the place, for the talents to gather and trade their ideas
We also need to understand that the Silicon Valley phenomenon occurred way before Internet - which means, people _still_ had to congregate in ONE PHYSICAL PLACE in order to trade ideas
With Internet, people no longer need to gather physically in one place in order to trade ideas
There have been many attempts in repeating the "Silicon Valley Success" all over the world - from Boston USA to East London, UK to Japan to even third world countries such as Malaysia, but none ever achieve same level of success as Silicon Valley
Why?
Simply because there is no need for yet-another Silicon Valley
Re: (Score:3)
We were there before the open-walleted investors
Who do you think gave birth to the VC concept?
Hint: Sure ain't from the folks in Wall Street
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, but they didn't return after being seared to a golden brown.
Kansas City should be the next Silicon Valley.
Google Fiber could support it.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
A year or two ago they were saying Chicago, referencing GroupOn and others. Lately I've heard Austin, Texas a couple times.
This is the first time I've heard Phoenix, though I admit I don't pay close attention to the whole, "where's the next silicon valley" thing.
Re:LOL (Score:4, Insightful)
The factors that are always cited in Silicon Valley's success are things like cultural openness, strong public schools and exceptional universities, mild weather, cultural acceptance of taking risks and failing, local venture capital, etc. Phoenix fails on pretty much all counts. Austin has a couple going for it, but is surrounded by Texas. Kansas City is pretty unlikely (Maybe Lawrence KS has a chance though...?). New York will never create that culture, but it will always be a finance/fashion mecca.
It is interesting to look at the things that made Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, and New Orleans hubs in their day by comparison.
Re: (Score:2)
Phoenix ?!? Has anyone ever been there?
This is pure long-shot PR from someone with real estate interests..
Born and raised, thank you very much.
Re: (Score:2)
Tech industry is heavy in the Gilbert area. I have seen a few biofuel start ups, a few medical start ups, and a few tech startups in this area as well.
But, as far as the question of the article, the answer is no.
Born and braised (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I've lived here for 6+ years. Stay away. It's too hot, and too miserable, and the houses are too expensive when people like you come around and start buying them up.
Try Oregon instead, eh?
Has anyone ever been there? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Phoenix ?!? Has anyone ever been there?
This is pure long-shot PR from someone with real estate interests..
Intel has had facilities in Chandler, AZ pretty much forever (since 1979)...
Even though Chandler is only 25 miles from Phoenix, that presence didn't help it become the next silicon valley in 1990 boom, so what is different today (except the real-estate bust)? Yeah... real-estate interests ;^)
double lol (Score:3)
Why would anyone want to be in the same state as Arpaio, let alone 30 miles away? Don't they know how that works? That area is full of crazies.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Interesting)
I can tell you where the next Silicon Vally is, and you folks down there in promoting Phoenix won't want to hear it:
San Francisco.
Not only are people not wanting to move out of California, they are moving to the only place even more expensive than Silicon Vally, which is good old San Francisco.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/San-Francisco-office-sales-booming-3750956.php [sfgate.com]
The reason is because the talent is here, and the talent WANTS to come here. Young 20-somethings who are generally creative and technology-oriented don't want to move to Phoenix because 1) It's too hot and 2) It's too conservative.
Sorry SV wannabees...San Francisco is the place to be.
Re:LOL (Score:4, Interesting)
I live in Phoenix (actually Tempe, right next door). I've lived here since 2000, so I think I know something about it.
This town is a dump. The idea that hordes of techies and young people are going to want to move here to suffer through 115-degree weather is just idiotic. There is no culture here, very few decent places to eat, and the place is full of meth-heads and illegals. It's been rated by several places as the worst city in America to drive in, mainly because it's so chaotic and because there's no consistent driving style (the frequent road-rage shootings don't help). The local economy is shit, and violent home invasions are common. There is some tech industry, both in the north of the metro area and the southeast part, with Intel and Microchip having substation presences, along with some shitty defense contractors like General Dynamics where engineers go to die. The weather is horrible; it wasn't that bad 12 years ago, but it's gotten hotter, and stays hotter for longer now. You can't bicycle here (one of my favorite outdoor activities) because of the heat most of the year, and also because of the dangerous speeding drivers and lack of safe bike paths. And there's really nothing to do here except for walking around the mall. Even worse, they're trying to phase out the indoor air-conditioned malls in favor of these stupid outdoor malls; who the hell wants to walk around in 115 degree heat to shop? They're nice for about 3 months in the winter, and that's it. They used to have Mill Avenue in Tempe that was kinda fun to walk along, which used to have a bunch of quirky little independent shops, but the Tempe government drove all those out of business to make room for a bunch of mall stores and high-rises, which of course went south when the economy crashed, so most of the place is boarded up now.
This place sucks, and I can't wait to move out in a couple of months. If a bunch of startups do move here, it's going to be short-lived because cool, hip, young employees aren't going to stick around this cesspool for long.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Informative)
There's a lot of drivel there that doesn't deserve comment ("very few decent places to eat"? are you old or broke?), but this is ridiculous:
It's been rated by several places as the worst city in America to drive in, mainly because it's so chaotic and because there's no consistent driving style (the frequent road-rage shootings don't help).
What's the problem, does the square NS-EW street grid confuse you? You're going to need to back up that claim, because Phoenix is nowhere near the worst cities to drive in:
http://fillmyemptyblogspace.com/2010/12/24/10-worst-american-cities-to-drive-in/ [fillmyemptyblogspace.com]
http://www.businessinsider.com/cities-with-most-car-crashes-2010-10?op=1 [businessinsider.com]
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/15-dangerous-cities-for-driving.html [yahoo.com]
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/22/going-nowhere-10-worst-u-s-cities-for-traffic/ [time.com]
In fact, if you look closely, you can see Chandler listed by Allstate as one of the safest cities to drive in.
violent home invasions are common
Define "common". The police claimed that for 2008 there were "over 300" home invasions and kidnappings (fewer than 1 per day, in an area with 4.2 million people), and that claim was investigated by the feds to see if it was exaggerated to get more funding:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2011/01/26/20110126phoenix-crime-stats-federal-audit.html [azcentral.com]
You can't bicycle here (one of my favorite outdoor activities) because of the heat most of the year
People bike here year round, Facebook posts from other people doing just that are proof. You choose not to, that doesn't mean other people don't do it also. There are people enjoying the Phoenix Mountain Preserve, Dreamy Draw, and South Mountain year round.
They used to have Mill Avenue in Tempe that was kinda fun to walk along, which used to have a bunch of quirky little independent shops, but the Tempe government drove all those out of business to make room for a bunch of mall stores and high-rises, which of course went south when the economy crashed, so most of the place is boarded up now.
Really? The main recreational area next to the largest university by enrollment in the country is boarded up now, huh? That's weird. [google.com]
This place sucks, and I can't wait to move out in a couple of months.
Neither can I. Let me know if you need help leaving.
Re:LOL (Score:4, Interesting)
It is over 100 degrees for a significant amount of the year. If you go for a walk at night, it is still in the high 90s. Phoenix is the 6th largest city in the US, and is located in the middle of the desert. It has no semi-cool counter culture like nearby Tucson. It is just massive sprawl. Yes, it has great Mexican food, and 3 months of the winter are awesome, but the idea of people flocking there for hot tech jobs is insane.
Would you raise your children in a city where the only place you see grass is golf courses and cemeteries? Would you jump to move to a city with no distinctive downtown, but rather 4 million people living in uncontrolled desert sprawl, completely devastated by the housing crash? And, yes, in Phoenix, it was a crash - houses thrown up with the cheapest materials and labor, doubling in price after only 5 years, only to be devastated by the realization that the owners paid for a tiny lot in a 4 million person desert sprawl, with the closest attraction being Las Vegas?
Re: (Score:3)
Funny, but it wasn't quite so bad here before so many people moved in and overdeveloped the place with concrete and asphalt, creating a giant heat island. It used to get nice and cool in the evenings even in the middle of the summer (and still does, if you go way out into the open desert far from the cities), but now it just stays 100+ all night long. It's hotter, and stays hotter longer, than it did only 10-20 years ago.
Re: (Score:3)
Why is cool, young, and hip important?
Because they're the employees you want in a startup. The older people with families and mortgages aren't about to spend their time on something that doesn't pay well, and has a 90% chance of going nowhere and leaving them unemployed in a year. Young people will do it because they like pioneering something new, and because they can afford the risk (if the startup succeeds, they stand to make a lot of money, but the chances for failure are high). If it doesn't work out
Think of the advantages... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can dispense with wafer ovens altogether... just put your silicon outside in the parking lot...
No. (Score:4, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines
Re: (Score:3)
Arizona? No Thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Is Phoenix The Next Silicon Valley?
Dear God, I hope not. In the current political climate, as an immigrant, I am avoiding Arizona entirely unless it's absolutely required.
Re: (Score:3)
It's an outdated, overplayed stereotype. Idiot local politicians on the right like to rattle their sabers to garner press. Truth be told, the state is about as balanced with its share of both "normal" people and nutjobs on both sides of the aisle.
My IT architecture team is a snapshot of diversity.
The IT arm of my (large) company is fairly representati
Re: (Score:2)
The portrait that the national media likes to paint of Arizona is fairly inaccurate
Two words: Joe Arpaio.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Despite Joe's antics, he'll get elected again because his politics aren't what most of the voting populous of AZ cares about.
Things like Tent City suck, and we like when our criminals get sent there. We like that he deputizes people to track down deadbeat dads or keep gangbangers out of mall parking lots. We like that he's a mean son of a bitch. We want our stupid kids locked up and put in a chain-gang for the week when they get a drunk driving charge.
We overlook the fact that he panders to the media on the right with birther nonsense, because he's not a position in our government where it matters. [Hint, the MCSO doesn't determine presidential eligibility.]
Re: (Score:2)
So you elect him because the issues on which he's speaking don't matter to you, but expect immigrants (i.e. people to whom issues like that matter immensely) to... what? Ignore it? Kind of difficult when you're being asked for your papers all the time...
Re: (Score:2)
Things like Tent City suck, and we like when our criminals get sent there. We like that he deputizes people to track down deadbeat dads or keep gangbangers out of mall parking lots. We like that he's a mean son of a bitch. We want our stupid kids locked up and put in a chain-gang for the week when they get a drunk driving charge.
That someone would present these as the appealing, non-right-wing facets of Joe Arpaio says a lot.
As long as they don't fail ongoing legal/constitutional scrutiny, it is the right of Joe's constituents to support these kinds of policies. Nevertheless, they are indeed why many people would not want to move to AZ.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
Things like Tent City suck, and we like when our criminals get sent there.
What about the innocent, but accused? You did know that the majority of Tent Citie's population are merely accused and awaiting trial, right?
But I'm wasting my time. You're exactly the kind of authoritarian asshole that keeps any sort of sensible person out of Phoenix. I hope you get falsely accused of a crime in August.
Re: (Score:2)
In no way am I suggesting that everyone in Arizona is like that; I happen to know a couple people who live there and they're great. Unfortunately, your politicians have set policies that I don't find attractive in the least, and the fact that they have done so, repeatedly, suggests that the tone there would not be welcoming.
If you want to change your image, change your politicians. The problem seems to be that many Arizona natives like them.
Re: (Score:2)
And the computer industry employs a lot of immigrants. If I were starting a new company, I'd think twice about locating in a state where a funny accent is likely to draw hassles.
Responding to the AC who replied previously: this is not about enforcing the laws. This is about dimwitted politicos pandering to bigotry.
Re: (Score:2)
In my experience (and I know the plural of experience is not data) with Arizona, some of the most strident negative opinions about immigrants were from people who were of obvious Hispanic heritage.
Even the people you'd normally characterize as "conservative" (white, carry a handgun, etc) always struck me as more socially and interpersonally "liberal" -- ie, they weren't bible thumpers, most were OK with legalizing marijuana to stem the drug cartels and gangs, not hung up on the usual hard-ass conservative t
Re: (Score:2)
In a sense, yes. I have a problem with their state people taking the laws into their own hands. There's a reason ICE exists. And frankly, I don't want to be looked at with suspicion for daring to spend the $2500+ I've spent so far (with more to come!) in order to become a lawful permanent resident.
Also, Joe Arpaio can go fuck himself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I love how everyone with these extreme viewpoints posts as an AC. In any case, like I said, there's a reason ICE exists. Apparently, you people don't think their laws go far enough. I disagree, vehemently.
Additionally, your point about the Mexican police force really has nothing to do with anything since they would appear to be a federal entity, like ICE. If you were to talk about the police of a specific Mexican province or city, maybe then you'd have a point, limited as it may be (I'm not sure I would
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You wish. We've got a vigilante group here in Arizona, call themselves "Minutemen" than routinely walk the border. These idiots are are NOT cops. They are civilians with guns that shoot first. That's just a sample of AZ. I hate this place but can't afford to leave.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:4, Informative)
Since you didn't bother to specify which, now disbanded, Arizonian "minutemen" group, there's the murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores by Shawna Forde (State of Arizona vs. Shawna Forde (court case number CR-20092300-001, Pima County)), the founder of the splinter group Minutemen American Defense, and Jason Bush (State of Arizona vs. Jason Eugene Bush (court case number CR-20092300-003, Pima County)).
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
So you have no problem with the laws of the US but a problem with the state of Arizona actually enforcing these laws? Fan-friggin-tastic.
You're missing the point. The fact that Arizona has a cultural image problem with a big hunk of the population is likely to make it more difficult to recruit talent, which is essential to the success or failure of any company, and start-ups in particular. It's hard enough already to lure the top people to your company. Why make it harder? Easier to just locate someplace else. If they like the bed they've made, good for them. The Supreme Court validated the single biggest part of their legislation. But that doesn't mean I, or a lot of the people I hire, suddenly feel like it's a good idea to go live there.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Life time Arizona resident here.
Actually the high tech industry is thriving here. It's as easy to get immigrants to work here as anywhere else. I should know, I work for a fortune 100 tech company who is based out of Phoenix, and we have a fair share of immigrant employees. Arizona only discriminates against illegal immigration. And it's not just white people that do it, even the legal immigrants have a problem with illegal immigration.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:5, Informative)
Actually federal law already requires ALL immigrants to register and carry some form of documentation at all times, legal or otherwise. A green card will suffice.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304 [cornell.edu]
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1306 [cornell.edu]
So the "papers please" argument already applies nationwide.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking only for myself, I have a problem with Arizona enacting (and enforcing) laws that are plainly discriminatory and largely driven by old white men angrily brandishing guns. Arizona is, from my perspective, out of step with the vast majority of These United States.
But that's just me.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You have essentially answered your own question.
On one hand, you say that you disagree with Arizona laws because of the beliefs of the people that live there. This is a problem because it makes Arizona out of step with the majority of the US.
But.. the majority of the US is not in Arizona. That's why it's called Arizona. It's a different place from where you live. If you don't live there, why do you care?
Do you have a problem with marijuana dispensaries every three blocks in Denver (assuming you don't liv
Re: (Score:2)
It actually took me a bit to realize that I don't care about what other localities decide to do or not do. If San Fransisco wants to make pet ownership illegal and composting mandatory, that is their choice. If the subdevelopment down the street decides all houses must be pink with blue roofs, that is their choice. If NYC wants to harass new mothers, fine. If Arizona wants to pass 'crazy' laws, fine. I don't have to live in any of those places. What makes this country great is we can pass insane local
But that's just me. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So you have no problem with the laws of the US but a problem with the state of Arizona actually enforcing these laws? Fan-friggin-tastic.
I simply can't imagine why somebody might prefer a state where being flagged down and asked to produce your papers is still an unlikely event, even if you look like you might be of the foreign persuasion...
Shockingly enough, it is entirely possible to agree with a law and disagree with a given method of enforcing it. Except in rare cases, when the law actually explicitly prescribes its own enforcement methods, the two are actually very different things.
Re: (Score:2)
A common misrepresentation. Sherrif Joe has his faults, but instructing his officers to stop vehucles on the highway with expired plates, faulty safety equipment, and a dozen people in the back on suspicion that they are possibly transporting illegal aliens is reasonable and prudent. And yes, they are probably dark-skinned.
If they show a drivers license, regtistration, insurance card, and their passengers mostly answer questions and don't try to hide, they usually go on ther way with a warning. Refusing
Not all tech companies start in California (Score:3)
I mean, I can think of a little company from Albuquerque that ended up doing pretty well for itself.
Re:Not all tech companies start in California (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, I can think of a little company from Albuquerque that ended up doing pretty well for itself.
Los Pollos Hermanos?
No, it isn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
For over a decade people keep saying "X" will be the next Silicon Valley. And they then go on and forget they made such ridiculous predictions and nobody every calls them on it.
FYI The next Silicon Valley continues to be Silicon Valley, as it reinvents itself (and replacing itself with something even more inexplicable the next time.)
So now you know. And you can quote me on it.
Re:No, it isn't. (Score:5, Informative)
If only the Valley could cut its property prices by like 80%, then they might survive the next decade and still be on top :P. I'm sorry, but the cost of living there is just outrageous compared to more-reasonable places that are also full of hackers and startups.
Name one.
There's a reason why it's cheaper to live in Hicksville. It sucks out there. There's nothing to do.
There's a reason why it's expensive in the valley. It's awesome. It's where you can walk out of a tech job and still have thousands of other companies in the same field in the same metropolitan area that you can apply to. It's where you can go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations everywhere. It has a buzz thanks to being full of people bouncing ideas off of each other and venture capital not too far away if investors see an opportunity that might go somewhere. It's where it's at. It has a pleasant climate. It has great outdoor pursuits close by. There's stuff to do. People want to live here.
"The valley" is not a sentient being with the power to "cut its property prices by like 80%", it's a highly south-after location and the wages in the place make it possible to live here.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like New York, except with the downside of it being in California.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, spent ten years there, made a lot of money, had some great experiences.
And then, when I was ready to, like, buy a house, and live in a place where I'd actually want my kids to grow up, I moved to another state.
Give yourself time, you may find yourself feeling the same way.
Re: (Score:2)
If only the Valley could cut its property prices by like 80%, then they might survive the next decade and still be on top :P. I'm sorry, but the cost of living there is just outrageous compared to more-reasonable places that are also full of hackers and startups.
Name one.
Champaign-Urbana.
Cost of living is pretty cheap, there are lots of high-tech jobs (most people I know say the companies they work for are currently trying to hire programmers!), it's easy to get around, and being a town with a large university (including one of the highest populations of foreign students), there are a lot of interesting thing to do, ranging from classical performances (plays, ballets, orchestras), bar and band nightlife, family activities, to geek events (a hip "maker-space", engineering co
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There's a reason why it's expensive in the valley. It's awesome. It's where you can walk out of a tech job and still have thousands of other companies in the same field in the same metropolitan area that you can apply to. It's where you can go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations everywhere. It has a buzz thanks to being full of people bouncing ideas off of each other and venture capital not too far away if investors see an opportunity that might go somewhere. It's where it's at. It has a pleasant climate. It has great outdoor pursuits close by. There's stuff to do. People want to live here.
Where the heck do you live? I've been in Phoenix most of my life and the place you are describing is not Phoenix. Go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations? Good lord, every conversation I hear in this place is in barely intelligible and broken English - and that's from the citizens! Most of the illegals speak better than the high school grads around here. The climate sucks. Phoenix is a case study in urban sprawl and heat bubble affects. Outdoor pursuits, really? There are outdoor pursuit
This isn't the Valley you're looking for (Score:3)
Where the heck do you live?
"The Valley" he refers to is "Silicon Valley," not "the Valley of the Sun."
Re: (Score:3)
As for there being "nothing to do," I'm not sure where you get that notion; we get the same movies/music/etc as everywhere else... Plus, unlike Cali, we get to play with guns and 4x4's pretty much unfettered.
The fact that you consider movies and music to be the sum total of "things to do" says it all.
Re: (Score:2)
The solution is sleeping tubes. Or arcologies. Possibly arcologies full of sleeping tubes.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry, but the cost of living there is just outrageous compared to more-reasonable places that are also full of hackers and startups.
If those places become the next SV in terms of startup activity, they will become the next SV in terms of cost of living.
The only hope is that the "geniuses" of the tech industry will figure out how to use their own innovations to free themselves of the idiotic proposition of concentrating themselves into tiny geographic areas.
Re: (Score:2)
Why, what's wrong with Austin? It's a pretty decent city, though it has some more suburban sprawl than compared to california (since they have the land to do it in Austin).
Also, if you moved to Austin before last years heat wave, I do feel sorry for you. Last year was the worst summer I've seen down here in the 10 years I've been here.
Fuck no... (Score:3)
I won't go.
Confused... (Score:3)
Also, heat is bad for electronics, so why in the name of everything holy would tech startups want to base themselves in an area that regularly experiences triple-digit temperatures?
Re: (Score:2)
I thought the ubiquity of high-speed internet access almost everywhere eliminated the need for centering technological progress around a particular geography...
With a company there will be a physical location. You want that physical location to be where the talent is.
Also, heat is bad for electronics, so why in the name of everything holy would tech startups want to base themselves in an area that regularly experiences triple-digit temperatures?
You loose less days of productivity due to weather in high temperature areas vs snow areas.
I've lived in a place that gets to -50 F in the winter and climbs to 110 F in the summer. Trust me, a day that is 110 is a lot better than a day that is -50.
Re: (Score:2)
I thought the ubiquity of high-speed internet access almost everywhere eliminated the need for centering technological progress around a particular geography...
With a company there will be a physical location. You want that physical location to be where the talent is.
So, in a country with a 360 million+ population, you're telling me there are zero talented people outside northern California? Somehow I find that difficult to fathom... probably because it's complete bullshit.
Also, heat is bad for electronics, so why in the name of everything holy would tech startups want to base themselves in an area that regularly experiences triple-digit temperatures?
You loose less days of productivity due to weather in high temperature areas vs snow areas.
Protip: Want to be taken seriously? Make sure you spell and grammar check. FYI, It's spelled l-o-s-e, not l-o-o-s-e. / grammar Nazi rant
I've lived in a place that gets to -50 F in the winter and climbs to 110 F in the summer. Trust me, a day that is 110 is a lot better than a day that is -50.
Careful, I think I hear the Hyperbole Police coming, to drag you off to Exaggeration-traz...
Seriously, though, you do realize there exist many, many temperate regi
Re: (Score:2)
Phoenix is blessed with abundant electrical suppies form several directions. If you want redundant power, it's here.
Residential outages are always weather-related. Wind especially will cause problems. But for a data center, it's very good. and the risk of floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc is low. Building up a few feet removes the risk of even local monsoon flooding.
A much safer environment than even rural Virginia.
Oh please (Score:3)
Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies.
Depends... (Score:2)
"Different quality of life" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Only hotter and with bigger power and water supply issues.
Funny you should ask... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an electrical engineer in Phoenix who is actively trying to leave. You pretty much have Intel, Honeywell, and Freescale (ha!) on a large scale, a bunch of other companies with satellite offices locally, and some smaller startup types. From the inside, it certainly doesn't feel special relative to any other large city, and there still is nowhere near the density of tech companies that Silicon Valley has. Could it get there? I suppose. But so could Austin, or Seattle, or Irvine, and so on.
Re: (Score:3)
Or, try Colorado (Score:3)
The weather is much more pleasant in Colorado.
The only thing is the cost of living is not quite as low as Arizona. But it sure beats California...
There's a ton of technical stuff going on all across the state, and only Colorado has places to suit ideology anywhere on the spectrum (far left, Boulder. far right, Colorado Springs. Independent? Anywhere).
Also they have laws to prevent idiots from hanging in the left lane forever preventing you from passing trucks. So unlike California, highways actually work here.
$2 million in capital raised (Score:3)
I don't know why anyone would go to Phoenix (Score:2)
if they didn't absolutely have to. I lived there for 4 years of dental school. It's too hot to move about 8 months of the year, all the plants have thorns, all the insects sting, all the reptiles are poisonous. There's no water. This is a message from the universe telling you that human beings don't belong there.
Of all the places to be in Az, I never understood why people would have settled in that god-forsaken valley. 100 miles away there are decent climates at higher altitudes.
Further proof of the st
mixed news (Score:2)
Moving away from Silicon Valley -- Great!
Moving to Phoenix -- No damned way.
Can't we pick some place with a lower cost of living than the SF bay area (which shouldn't be hard) *and* isn't hot enough to barbecue small animals?
I moved *from* Phoenix. I visited there recently. It's still too damned hot.
The answer is a resounding NO (Score:5, Interesting)
No, because Phoenix cannot attract talent. (Score:4, Informative)
In general, Phoenix is a boring place, and boring doesn't attract talent. For some reason, Phoenicians chose to build themselves a flat, heat-magnifying city of asphalt and concrete in an already hot location, instead of shade trees and tall buildings to help block the sunlight. Consequently, there are few vibrant, walkable areas (downtown Tempe is/was a notable exception), and there's not much to do in the summer except watch TV or go to the theater, the mall, or a water park.
No, Phoenix isn't a good tech incubator. Phoenix is where you move your company after you've completed the real innovation and you just need cheap labor to keep the business running.
Re: (Score:3)
Sounds like he hit a nerve.
Re:Only the retarded use sexual slang (Score:5, Insightful)
On a side note, what do you have against reducing the size of government and federal spending?
What do I have against it?
I believe everyone should be provided healthcare by the state, because I don't think we can trust private entities to resist the temptation to charge more and more for healthcare services (because they know we HAVE to pay it...).
I believe the government should regulate what pollutants industry is allowed to dump into the earth/water.
I believe the government should provide free education to all of its citizens.
I believe the government should regulate financial industries and banks.
Frankly, I believe there are MANY things the government should do, because either they are the only ones who can do it, or because the sector should not be trying to make a profit.
If you want to reduce government, set your sights on the massive "defense" budget. Leave what (limited) social services the USA has alone.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with healthcare is that we are constantly finding new methods to treat things, but as usual, the first are always expensive and as soon as a possibility exists something might help, people demand it, regardless of cost.
Throw away all the expensive equipment we didn't have 20 years ago, and the batteries of expensive experimental drugs and medical costs will plummet.
Re:Only the retarded use sexual slang (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a myth perpetuated by people who pull reasons out of hats and other dark orifices to empty your wallet. If any of this smoke had even a passing hint of reality to it, we would be seeing a global pattern that would bear this out. Such a pattern is embarrassingly absent. Here's what is present,
Americas spend more for medicine than any people on the planet; per capita: $7,146, as a percentage of GDP: 15.2%
Our life expectancy is 42 (50th for new borns) in the world falling behind Cuba and Chile, Our child mortality rate is one of the highest in the industrialized world.
The WHO rated American medicine over all at 72 of 191, being beaten by Mexico, Sri Lanka and Uraguay, but tied in a dead heat with Surinam.
Medical care is the number 1 reason for bankruptcy being a a significant cause in 46.2% and mentioned in 62.1% of all bankruptcies.
The United States is one of only 3 industrialize countries (the other two being Mexico and Turkey) on the planet that failed to cover virtually all of their citizens (at least 98.4%) with complete medical coverage. As a result, a 2009 Harvard study reported that 44,900 American's die needlessly every year due to lack of access to affordable medical care.
We have a ridiculous run away malpractice problem, for profit hospitals that have no problem charging $10 for an antacid tablet that costs less than a penny, semiprivate hospital rooms that can cost $20,000 a day, doctors charging $250 for a 30 second visit, pharmaceutical companies who no longer produce useful drugs, but keep pumping out analogues of prior cash cow meds to keep drug patents and fat profits coming, while at the same time moving heaven and earth to sabotage and undermine the generic drug industry, and a greedy insurance system that gladly spins the whole disaster on and on as it take ever fatter slices for itself. This is the picture of an industry rife with greed, gluttony, payola, bribery and an utter disregard for human life or dignity.
Anyone who thinks for a moment that this industry doesn't need to be regulated within an inch of its existence, has no clue to the depth and breath of the depravity that has been visited on the American people. It has passed being a bad joke, its beyond obscene, it is now a full on tragedy, a national shame, an indictment of our system of enterprise and government. It is a blight on our children and nothing less than beating it back into a not for profit service designed to protect and promote the health and well being of PEOPLE is an acceptable answer.
Re: (Score:3)
Our life expectancy is 42 (50th for new borns) in the world falling behind Cuba and Chile, Our child mortality rate is one of the highest in the industrialized world.
That is partly because most of those countries that rank ahead of the U.S. don't count infants that die in the first 24 hours as live births, while the U.S. does. Many countries throughout the world count infants that die in the first 24 hours as "stillbirths" rather than as live births. That means that children that die within 24 hours of birth do not count towards the life expectancy in those countries, while in the U.S. they do.
Interestingly, one of the countries that has a higher life expectancy than
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry, but he was right on. The issue of Joe Arpaio, tea party rallies and general things involving areas near Phoenix result in that I would be unwilling to work or even consider relocating to that area - even for 10-50x my salary. I'm sorry, but with actual people being herpa-derp stupid enough to shoot actual politicians, who would want to associate with such an area? Then you have unfriendly weather climates (hello 120+ degrees).
Climate issues, politicial issues, general public issues.
Re: (Score:2)
No, they mostly come from Mesa. I do not consider Mesa to be Phoenix yet.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Spring in Phoenix sucks; summers are flat-out intolerable.
Mostly dry? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I see this all the time though. "Nobody wants to work there, it's too hot!" Never "Nobody wants to work there, it's too cold!" Am I so much in the minority
Re: (Score:2)
If you stay in the machine room, you'll be comfy all year long.
Sprinting to the car might be a problem, though. I get that.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. Whatever. I get sick of pointing this out to folks. Sure, back east you may - occasionally - get near 100 degrees. We are over 100 degrees from about 10am till about 9pm or later for 3 months out of the year. The LOWS stay in the mid 80's and low 90's. Sure - it's a dry heat, but ya know what, your lungs feel like they are scorching. I had a vegetable garden once where the veggies cooked on the vine - in October.
Granted - February is wonderful. But you pay for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, that and it's not bounded on three sides by water.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Take your coastal elitism and shove it up your hindside.
but... but... but... coastal elitism is the only advantage the coasts have !
Re: (Score:3)
and pay your employees half
The ratio is not nearly that big. Maybe 10% to 20% less. Blows the minds of my coastie and Chicago friends. Depends on what field you're in, I suppose.
Note this fact doesn't help the argument much, but it does explain why I have absolutely no interest in moving. I'd only need a 200% pay raise to maintain the same standard of living.... oh thanks GOOG for that generous offer of 20% more, but I'm not even going to bother talking to your recruiter for that little... I'm not moving into a cardboard box unde
Re: (Score:2)
We don't deal with the heat. We stay inside. Or in the pool.