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Bug Windows Businesses Intel Microsoft Operating Systems Upgrades Technology

Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely 269

Posted by Unknown Lamer from the release-early-release-often dept.
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Geek.com: "Intel CEO Paul Otellini may be getting an angry phone call from Steve Ballmer today after it was revealed he told staff in Taiwan Windows 8 isn't ready for release. Otellini's comments were made at an internal meeting in Taipai, and he must have naively thought they would never become public knowledge. We don't know if he went into detail about what exactly is unfinished about Windows 8, but others have commented about a lack of reliable driver support and supporting applications. For many who have picked up previous versions of the Windows desktop OS early, this probably isn't coming as a surprise."
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Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely More

Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely

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  • What he thought of Vista when that was released. Microsoft have learned from their past mistakes. It's a good OS, The only major sub-system rewrite has been audio, and driver support is looking pretty good now. I've certainly not had any problems on my 3 machines.

    • Inventing a throw-a-chair-over-the-telephone device.

    • The only major sub-system rewrite has been audio

      I haven't been following very closely, but that's an interesting development. I'm into high performance audio, and noticed a night and day difference when I upgraded from XP to Vista. The new audio system in Vista (and present in 7) runs consistently well with far lower latency settings than previous versions of Windows.

      The big changes in audio for Windows 8 look to be geared towards power savings.. Which sounds like a good thing, as long as it stays out of the way of high performance ASIO drivers.

  • one bug I noticed in developer preview (Score:5, Funny)

    by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @08:39AM (#41463231) Homepage

    Apparently the Start Menu isn't working yet. I can't even find the Start Button.

  • >> the operating system lacks a wide range of robust applications

    Kudos to Microsoft for not making this a false chicken-and-egg problem. The OS needs to get out there so developers will target it. In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.

    >> PC makers haven’t had enough time to work out kinks with so-called drivers, which connect software to such hardware as printers

    On nos - HP isn't going to have enough tim

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by h4rr4r ( 612664 )

      n fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.

      Because all developers are windows developers?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jbolden ( 176878 )

      I agree and more importantly solving the chicken and egg problem for multiple input types. Between hardware, OS and applications someone had to go first. I think Windows 8 is exciting with where Microsoft is trying to lead.

    • We've already flipped half our Windows desktops and laptops to Windows 8. Except for a utility to put the start menu button back, we're not looking back.

      What types of users and how many? How much training was needed?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      >>> In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.

      Uhh no. Microsoft isn't the only platform in the world you know. Its not even the most popular platform in the sw development jobs market any more.

      Many developers never use Microsoft platforms at all, so dont even notice Windows 8, much less want to waste time learning it. Personally I actively avoid development jobs for any Microsoft platform as its always been a relativ

  • Driver support (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Murdoch5 ( 1563847 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @08:44AM (#41463299) Homepage
    Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

    • Ya that seems kinda funny (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @08:58AM (#41463503)

      Driver support ALWAYS lags because some companies are lazy. The big guys, Intel, AMD, nVidia, all seem to have drivers out on time and Windows 8 is no exception. You can get 8 drivers from them, life is good. However more specialty companies often lag badly. There's no Windows 8 drivers for any pro audio interfaces I can find, but that's no surprise I remember that it took M-Audio the better part of a year for Windows 7.

      There's just never going to be good driver support for a new OS on account of companies not wanting to bother. Even if the drivers don't need any changes, just testing and re-certification it can take time or just not happen at all.

      • Of course there are no new drivers!

        Why would you buy their new and improved "Ready for Windows 8!" kit if your old-but-perfectly-functional kit worked just as well?!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by h4rr4r ( 612664 )

          This is how I got quite a few free printers and scanners. They don't work with Vista + but my linux machines like them just fine.

          This is why drivers made by someone other than the hardware maker is the way to go.

      • I don't have any graphics drivers for my system, but installing the Windows 7 drivers in Windows 7 compatibility mode worked fine. This should work for a great majority of drivers. My dual graphics card on my laptop are working in Windows 8. On my tablet PC, the digitizer, thumb strip, and wwan card are all working, which I usually have a problem getting drivers for.

        • A good deal of Windows 7 drivers work, however most companies aren't updating their support for 8 yet.

          I realize it isn't an issue for geeks but it is for normal users. They go and have a look at what their hardware supports, don't see Windows 8, and say "Oh it won't work."

          I also get rather annoyed since it is just laziness on the part of hardware companies. MS releases test builds of Windows plenty early. That is how the companies I listed manage to have Windows 8 drivers out. There really isn't an excuse f

          • A company shouldn't have to build new drivers, the OS should be able to load legacy drivers.

            • Windows 7 32 bit can run Vista-32, XP-32, and 2000-32 drivers. Win7-64 can load Vista-64 drivers, and I believe XP-64 drivers. I think Windows 8 can even run XP/2000 drivers. The only major limitation is XP video drivers won't give you Aero or DX10 or higher.

              Win98 could run WDM (which ultimately extended right into 2000 and higher), Win95 VxD files, Windows 3.1 drivers, and even DOS real-mode drivers. GRanted this led to some of the notorious instability with 9x

              That legacy driver support is better than Linu

      • Oh I agree, it doesn't matter what OS you pick, Linux, Apple or Windows. Driver support will always be in development, however I think to call it out as a sign of being released premature is wrong, I could easily pick out the same flaw in Linux, but I wouldn't say the kernel is released premature.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tgd ( 2822 )

      Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

      I've run it on quite a few different systems, of ages going back perhaps 6-7 years. The single driver problem I've run into with the RTM bits is a Bootcamp problem -- the touchpad on my MacBook Air doesn't work and so far I've been unable to cobble together anything to get the drivers to load. Every other device on all of the systems has worked flawlessly. (In fact, my relatively new Core I7 3770 system works far better because a slew of really buggy Intel-originated drivers were replaced by 1st party Micro

    • Re:Driver support (Score:5, Funny)

      by Frankie70 ( 803801 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @09:39AM (#41464031)

      Yes. That's the reason I opt for Linux - full driver support.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by pclminion ( 145572 )
        Are you telling me that every time Linus makes a new point release he makes sure all the driver test cases pass for all drivers in the tree? From reading LKmL, it seems the standard for turning the crank is sometimes as low as "I tried it on two machines and it didn't crash. Let's unleash it on the rest of the world, who will QC it."

        • there is the kernel team then there are distro devs its the job of the distro guys to pick out which kernels and which hardware they will support in their distro. (unless use you like gentoo linux or linux from scratch then you the user are responsible for that and the distro guys are more of a source code repository maintainer.)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 )

      I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

      He didn't.

      The whole article is based on an anonymous source paraphrasing to Bloomberg. There are no direct quotes.

  • Windows releases are ALWAYS premature... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @08:48AM (#41463347)

    This is not news. Microsoft have ALWAYS released new OSes prematurely. Users basically beta test the OS, and then MS goes on an ad nauseum patch release cycle for bugs that have been found. I recall that it took XP at least 2 to 3 years before it was solid. And, let's not forget Vista. That was nothing else than a stop-gap release of underperforming beta software.

  • A release of Windows not being ready has never stopped Microsoft from releasing it. Nor has it stopped the fools who jump on every beta they put out. I participate on a video forum at another site and every beta that comes out, we have members who jump on it and then bitch about how various things don't work. That doesn't ever stop from them doing the same thing over and over every time a new beta comes out. And the market has never punished Microsoft for any of its mistakes so even if Win 8 is as big o
    • Too bad they aren't registered beta testers that can submit bug reports. I was a beta tester for Windows 98, it had some pretty bad show stopper bugs in the RCs. I did my best to report them. Some were fixed, others made it to RTM, but were later fixed in 98SE (which was originally planned to be an OEM Service Release). Anyone remember "WebTV for Windows"? It was a pile of buggy crap. Testers told MS time and time again that it wasn't ready for primetime (no pun intended) in the beta newsgroups, yet they re

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bondsbw ( 888959 )

      I'm convinced that some people jump on the beta just to complain about it. "I used it for 15 minutes and it is the $!@#$ most ugly-@#$ buggy $@#% piece of !#@$#@!% horse $#@# I've ever seen!"

      Or, every other Slashdot post on Windows 8.

  • Define premature (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Missing.Matter ( 1845576 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @08:58AM (#41463497)
    In all the Slashdot articles trashing windows 8, the one and only criticism ever brought up here is of Metro and the start menu. Windows 8 is stable, uses minimal resources, performs well, features a variety of real improvements to the UI and workflow, is secure, is scalable to hardware even 7 years old (at least), is compatible with almost all software available for Windows 7, is compatible with almost all drivers for Windows 7... for almost all tangible measures of the ability of an operating sytem, it's ready, and has been for a long time. Public betas and pre-releases have been available for over a year now, including a free RTM evaluation, so we've all been free to test and evaluate it on our own machines. And still the *only* complaint anyone here (a place where Microsoft is derided at every turn for stability, performance, and security) ever manages to come up with is their own opinion on launcher preferences. If that's the worst you can come up with for Windows 8, I'd say it's good to go.

    • Re:Define premature (Score:5, Insightful)

      by will_die ( 586523 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @09:32AM (#41463927) Homepage
      The UI mess is any easy thing to complain about and one that people instantly see.
      The main problem is what technical or feature reasons are there to switch to Windows 8? I can point to benefits of switching to Vista when it was released but windows 8 is some bug fixes, ms-phone tied in, and a poor UI.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Missing.Matter ( 1845576 )

        The UI mess is any easy thing to complain about and one that people instantly see.

        It's also the most opinionated (least grounded in objective fact), as it's based on personal preferences; and the easiest to fix, as you can a) use the OS without even using the metro UI, b) get used to it and learn how to use it, c) augment it with launchers of your choosing, or d) completely replace it with a different shell

        The main problem is what technical or feature reasons are there to switch to Windows 8?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 [wikipedia.org]

        Highlights inclue native iso/vhd support; native USB 3.0 support; fast boot time (my laptop goes from battery out to usable de

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bertok ( 226922 )

      It's not just that they changed things, which they do with every release, but that they changed things for the worse.

      Windows XP to Windows 7 had some pretty major changes -- including the task bar revamp -- but I got used to it. I didn't grumble, I didn't complain, because it wasn't worse, it was just different, and in some ways better. I like the previews. I like the jump lists. Let me reiterate that: it's different, but it's not worse.

      The Windows 8 GUI isn't better in any way that I can see. On the contra

    • Re:Define premature (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bmo ( 77928 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @12:14PM (#41465899)

      >In all the Slashdot articles trashing windows 8, the one and only criticism ever brought up here is of Metro and the start menu.

      When Metro is the biggest change that the user sees to the OS, isn't that a core criticism?

      >Windows 8 is stable

      So is XP. So is 2000SP4. So is 7SP1. Windows 7SP1 is going to be the new XP. Deal with it.

      >uses minimal resources

      That title belongs to Windows FLP, which boots in 7 seconds and not even a second after hitting enter on your password to get to a desktop. It does not belong to 8.

      >performs well

      Compared to what?
      ,
      >features a variety of real improvements to the UI and workflow

      Marketing nonsense.

      >is secure,

      That remains to be seen. Out of the lists of changes to Windows in 8, none have listed any major changes in security. If there are changes, they aren't ever listed.

      >is scalable to hardware even 7 years old (at least)

      No it isn't. That belongs to Windows FLP and XP.

      >is compatible with almost all software available for Windows 7

      Isn't that to be expected? 7 is only 3 years old. SP1 is 18 months old.

      >is compatible with almost all drivers for Windows 7

      But wait, isn't this article about the Intel CEO complaining about drivers not being ready?

      >it's ready, and has been for a long time.

      Says you.

      >Public betas and pre-releases have been available for over a year now, including a free RTM evaluation, so we've all been free to test and evaluate it on our own machines.

      Yes, and it's like Microsoft has not only ignored any and all criticism of Metro, but went out of their way to disable turning it off.

      >And still the *only* complaint

      No, it's not the only complaint even though you frame it that way. See this current article.

      > If that's the worst you can come up with for Windows 8, I'd say it's good to go.

      I would say that an interface that is as maddening as Metro is on the desktop with no way to turn it off means that it's not ready for prime time.

      It's funny how there were all those ads years ago about how Microsoft was proud of how they took ideas from users to integrate into Office. They don't listen so much now, do they?

      >modded insightful
      >marketing spew

      Well, there's no accounting for taste.

      --
      BMO

  • I don't see adoption happening (Score:4)

    by Rooked_One ( 591287 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @09:14AM (#41463701) Journal
    Its like windows vista... Its a "lets dip our feet in the water" sort of pull.

    I would say its *very* preemptive to release it so shortly after people have just gotten used to Win7 and Win2008 R2. After playing with win8 and win2012, there's no way I can see either as any sort of viable OS. Trying to get people to use either is a very long jump - maybe its a long jump to see how much win8 will be used on tablets.

    Win2012 is, to me, a disaster. There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?

    Hyper-V has improved a little, and there are some administrative functionality that, if you know how to get to, might be useful...

    I just think its too soon - people are comfortable with Win7 and more importantly, have gotten comfortable with Win2008 R2, and how to manage each. Big corps are just now adopting Win7, and people tend to take their "work" home with them. They have gotten comfortable with the new OS, and IT people are stubborn.

    And, lets face it - VMWare beat Microsoft to the VM punch, and that's where most small and medium, and especially large enterprises. Sure Win2012 is now manageable by one workstation, but we've been managing servers with RDP and VMware's native console passthrough for a long time.

    I'm sure lots of other people have their opinions, so lets see those.

    • There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?

      The first time you log in to you user account, you are given a short graphical tutorial which explains "Move your mouse into any corner" and shows what happens when you do this to the top right (the start button and other charms appear). If you follow this advice and move your mouse into any corner you will find among other things: two start buttons, a search menu, a settings menu, a start button, and an application switcher.

      • Because pixel hunting is fun! Hey, they give you hints, what more do you want?

        • It's not pixel hunting. There are exactly two things you have to remember. Right give you start, search, settings; left gives you app switching. That's it, and most people can get by with 80% of the functionality they need.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PCM2 ( 4486 )

        The first time you log in to you user account, you are given a short graphical tutorial which explains "Move your mouse into any corner"

        But this is Windows 8 and I'm using a touchscreen like Microsoft told me I wanted to! Now I has a sad.

  • HINT: (Score:3)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {dnaltropnidad}> on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @09:23AM (#41463811) Homepage Journal

    He knew perfectly well it would be leaked.

  • I've forced myself to use it for over a month.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HerculesMO ( 693085 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @09:25AM (#41463839)

    And I can say it's great, and it's terrible.

    The great -- it's really, really fast. Boot times are under 10 seconds to completely usable, apps launch fast, and IE10 is really not as bad as I thought it might be. The snapping of windows to side by side and whatever work really, really well, and I find myself more productive by seeing my email snapped to the side and then browsing or whatever.

    The bad -- the experience is really jarring. Most of my time is spent in the "desktop" which is a complete carryover from Windows 7. I would have thought that Microsoft would have taken the effort to re-skin that in a way better than they have (see here: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept [theverge.com]), but they didn't. It's a complete lack of effort. Not to mention, that things like battery life remaining, the time, are hidden into the OS and don't make appearances anywhere.

    The ugly -- Media Center. Fuck man, that's probably the best app in Windows, and could really kick the crap out of the Apple TV or Google TV if it was properly developed. With Windows 8's API structure there could be a lot of integration here, making media center the "hub" for entertainment on the PC. So if you wanted Netflix, or Amazon, or whatever - you'd have to integrate it into Media Center. But they just booted it out because people weren't using it. Of course they weren't... when you treat it like a third rate product, it's going to get third rate attention.

    Also ugly -- control panel. There are two of them in the OS. One is the 'desktop' version which remains unchanged from Windows 7, and then there's the Metro one that lets you work on settings for "Metro". Additionally multi monitor support with "hot spots" is a nightmare. I have two monitors and at work, I have 3. Trying to get into the bottom right or left to click on the start menu is extremely difficult, and in a remote desktop window, even harder. You can't use shortcut keys in remote desktop, but I've gotten used to using Windows Key + C for the charms bar, but realistically it's annoying.

    All in all it's a mixed bag. Microsoft needs to step up development to complete the UI experience because right now it's a joke. The OS itself is fundamentally better too, in terms of speed, stability, resource usage, sleep/hibernate, etc. However nobody's going to care if it acts like a fucked up monster to play with. Most people will adapt, as they always do, and it's not terribly hard to get used to. But if you want to compete in a world of where Apple makes design a #1 priority, and people VALUE that, then you have to fix the UI experience in Windows. It's not all about usability.

  • The only problem is that Intel's platform to support Windows 8 in a tablet platform is pre-mature. Smashing desktop or laptop CPU's into a tablet will probably result in poor battery and crippled performance and Intel is still struggling to find a foothold in the mobile CPU market. Intel is going to be put front and center in direct comparisons with iPad and Android tablets and even ARM based Windows RT tablets and I think Intel is expecting unfavorable comparisons because Microsoft is forcing Intel into a

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 )

      As Intel is suffering considerable loss in the post-PC era, any lack of consumer confidence in their ability to produce a good tablet platform will result in significant decline in Intel's market share.

      If Intel is weak in tablets, as you claim, shouldn't the fact that Intel is not suffering losses, "considerable" or otherwise -- it earned $2.8 billion in profits last quarter -- be evidence that maybe we aren't really in this "post-PC era" of which you speak?

  • Windows 8 Tablets with Intel processors will not arrive this year, unlike the ARM-based RT tablets due to surface before this year's holiday purchase season.

    The marketing fire for Windows 8 will hotly blaze but most of the focus will be its advantage as a touch based tablet interface. You won't see the Today show demoing a mouse based computer for the masses.

    Perhaps Otellini doesn't want market interest to be piqued until Intel tablets can benefit? Perhaps he's just positioning any teething pains of moving

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pavon ( 30274 )

      Nearly all of the Win8 tablets that will be available at launch are running Intel chips, including those from Lenovo, Dell and HP.

  • The sky is blue, bears crap in the woods, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's not like he's revealing something unusual for Microsoft. When has a Windows OS release ever been fully baked?
  • I'm a Linux user and from what I've seen about Win8 and by running the release preview on a virtual machine... it looks pretty nice for tablets and smartphones. So much that I'm probably getting a Nokia with Win8 as my next phone.

    What I don't get is why they don't provide the same experience level of the Win7 desktop environment to desktop/laptop users. Just keep it there and let people switch between then. Sure, some apps will be for the new Metro interface.. others will be exclusive for the desktop inte

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      What I don't get is why they don't provide the same experience level of the Win7 desktop environment to desktop/laptop users.

      Not sure what you mean. Just hit the desktop tile and you are back into Windows 7+.

  • Can we tag an article as "troll"? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bugler412 ( 2610815 ) on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @10:37AM (#41464773)
    Been running the RTM version for over a month on reasonably current hardware machines from multiple vendors, desktop, laptop, tablet/laptop hybrids. Zero instability, zero driver issues, everything works. You can bitch all you want about the metro UI, and the disconnected nature of dekstop to metro switching. Some or much of that bitching is completely and absolutely justified and I agree justified. But the OS is objectively better in a lot of other areas than Win7. If you don't like it, don't buy it, the market will make it's opinion known. But younger users more accustomed to iPhone or Android when exposed to Win8 next to some of it's competitiors in my experience have 100% unamimously thought that Win8 is "cool" and expressed a real interst in running it on at least touch enabled hardware. But inflating UI bitching into some larger issue with the OS is just immature trolling. Much like what we see every time a Linux distribution switches out the default GUI.

    • What do you mean, "If you don't like it, don't buy it"? It will be shovelled down people's throats whether they like it or not when they buy a new PC.

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