Tesla Model S Named 'Car of the Year' 303
A reader writes with news that Automobile Magazine has named the all-electric Tesla Model S its Car of the Year. Quoting:
"We weren't expecting much from the Tesla other than some interesting dinner conversation as we considered 'real' candidates like the Subaru BRZ and the Porsche Boxster. In fact, the Tesla blew them, and us, away.
Actually, the Model S can blow away almost anything. 'It's the performance that won us over,' admits editor-in-chief Jean Jennings. 'The crazy speed builds silently and then pulls back the edges of your face. It had all of us endangering our licenses.' Our Model S was of Signature Performance spec, which means its AC induction motor puts out 416 hp and that it blasts to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds. ... You'll note that we haven't even discussed Tesla's raison d'etre, which is, in Musk's words, 'To accelerate the advent of electric cars.' That's another credit to the Model S's overall execution and seductive powers. 'The electric motor does not define this car,' says Nelson. But it is, at the end of the day, what makes this very good sport sedan an absolute game changer. The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving."
American concept of pricing? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
Make no mistake, I'd really love one of these. But $78,500 is pricy.
Oh, and there is that all important question of how they hold up in a hurricane. Fisker's Karmas seem to have issues with getting wet. [jalopnik.com]
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:4, Informative)
Well, it is pitched at the people who are looking at a BMW 5 series and think that it isn't advanced enough. As a result, 78K is expensive, but still within budget range.
As for the fate of the Fiskers.... they seem to be badly engineered. From what I saw in reviews, there are all kinds of engineering issues that range from how it drives to how the electrical system holds up even under normal driving. That said, I don't think I would want to submerge any of these fully electric cars. I did put down 5k to be in line for one of these babies, but I will also leave money aside to have a rock-solid gasoline-powered car that will handle the situations that the Tesla shouldn't. No need to pull all eggs in one basket.
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, I don't think I would want to submerge any of these fully electric cars. I did put down 5k to be in line for one of these babies, but I will also leave money aside to have a rock-solid gasoline-powered car that will handle the situations that the Tesla shouldn't. No need to pull all eggs in one basket.
Excuse me, but I don't like I would want to submerge *any* car of any type. Especially when you're talking about storm surge (brackish water).
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s+r/like/think/g
hells bells with the quick trigger...
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Most old diesels can run submerged fine, all you need is an air intake. Lots of old land rovers have things like these [johncraddockltd.co.uk].
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:5, Informative)
Yet it is a luxury sports sedan that has performance and amenities similar to other luxury sports sedans in its price range.
This isn't supposed to compete in price against a honda civic or aerostar minivan because it is for an entirely different market.
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I think this fits in fine with the American concept of pricing for vehicles in its class
Make no mistake, this is no chevy volt. It's a performance luxury sedan that happens to be electric
On the topic of the Karamas, they've had a series of fire issues. Including one recall that may or may not have solved all of the issues.
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/12/29/fisker-officially-recalls-karma-over-battery-safety-issue/ [autoblog.com]
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/12/fisker-flambe-second-karma-spontaneously-combusts-w-video/ [autoblog.com]
Short out any large battery and watch the result (Score:2)
And the fisker has a VERY large battery. You'd hope for some short protection but obviously they didn't design for it being submerged. I'd be interested to know what happens if a Prius is submerged.
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There's also a model that's $49,900 after the federal rebate, and you can still drive it over 265 miles before it needs a gas station.
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:4, Informative)
There's a 40 kWh model that starts at $49,900 before the rebate, but it only gets 160 miles, and there's a 60 kWh model that starts at $59,900 before the rebate, but it only gets 230 miles. I can't figure out which model you may be thinking of. Not to mention the fact that none of them actually need a gas station at all since they're electric. ;)
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:5, Funny)
Exactly. They can ALL go at least 265 miles before they need a gas station!
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Though from what I have heard (from a coworker who's taking delivery of his next month) is the lower end models may not even be produced for a year or more. Tesla (understandably) is just building the higher-profit margin models as long as the demand for them is so high...
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The Karma will be the Pinto of the 21st century.
The Model S - You won't be incinerated while driving! Smooth ride!
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The Tesla battery design is much safer than the Fisker battery IMO. Each individual cell is protected against excessive current (shorts), under and overvoltage and that circuit is sealed inside each of the 9000 battery cells. In addition, the battery pack is designed such that if catastrophic failure occurs that the hot gases are directed away from the vehicle and occupants.
The Fisker looks really cool but it has a lot of technical issues that are still being resolved. My father owns one. The inside is real
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The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
There are plenty of cars in that price range sold in the US every year -- thousands of them. And that's for the high end one. When you look in the $50k range, the number is huge in the US, especially with minivans cresting at $40k these days.
I really wanted one, but couldn't wait that long. :( Stupid waiting lists ...
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There are plenty of cars in that price range sold in the US every year -- thousands of them.
But they don't have to stop every two or three hours to spend an hour or two recharging at one of the few charging stations available.
It's a niche toy, not a car to compete with any other $80k luxury vehicle.
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If you can afford an $80k vehicle you don't need to drive more than 3 hours. You can take a plane and sit in first class.
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You act like the typical driver spends more than two hours driving every day. For an overwhelming majority of people, the total time driving for an average day is well within the 2 to 3 hour mark.
Want to go on a long road trip? Well this may not be the car for you (just yet).
Re:American concept of pricing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wake me up when you're ready to compare apples to apples. There are plenty of luxury sedans and sports cars at that price range, and the Model S has more than enough features, style, and performance to match--or beat, as this award shows--every one of them. If you insist on comparing the Model S to a Toyota Camry, then I'm sorry but you're an idiot.
Musk has clearly articulated his strategy toward the electric vehicle market: Start at the high end, where the presently-high cost of batteries and the early-adopter tax can be easily absorbed. Make a car so sweet that it will fly off the lot at any price. Then once production is rolling, the technology is maturing, and costs are coming down, start removing trim features to bring the price down even further. But as long as the batteries and drive train remain expensive, it's better to sell a $60,000 luxury sedan than a $40,000 economy hatchback. Besides, he's essentially the only player in the luxury electric market. You don't expect 1-percenters to roll around in a lowly Nissan LEAF, do you?
But setting that aside, the Volt and the LEAF are not truly economy vehicles either. Both come with in-dash navigation, Bluetooth, and other advanced features as standard, and have great torque and handling, so can easily be compared to other cars in the $30-40k range. Electric cars are competitively priced if you are actually in their target market. Don't complain that you can't make your 150 mile commute on one charge, just don't buy one. The other 90% of Americans with commutes of less than 40 miles don't want you spoiling their fun.
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Electric cars are competitively priced if you are actually in their target market.
Rich people?
For this particular one, yes.
For the rest of us, look at these numbers: The Edmunds.com 5-year True Cost to Own(tm) comparing the base model Nissan Leaf [edmunds.com] to the base model Toyota Corolla [edmunds.com], which is half the sticker price: $35,567 for the Leaf, versus $37,440 for the Corolla, in spite of the feature advantage the Leaf has.
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Electric cars are competitively priced if you are actually in their target market.
Rich people?
Not necessarily.
I'm not rich, and I just bought a Nissan Leaf after crunching the numbers very carefully. I'm far from poor, but I'm not rich. I did the math and with some reasonable (for me) assumptions over an 8-year time-horizon the Leaf was less expensive than *any* gasoline-powered car I could find. Well, any new gasoline-powered car, equipped comparably to the Leaf.
For example, the cheapest pure-gas car I looked at was a Kia Rio. $18.5K purchase price, plus sales tax less my guess at residual
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Fisker's Karmas seem to have issues with getting wet. [jalopnik.com]
If your definition of "getting wet" is getting fully immersed in salt water, then yes, most non-amphibian cars would have major "issues" with that.
Granted, the cars caught fire after the Hurricane ocean tide retracted, and after they had a chance to dry a little, and that was not good design, but you have to take into consideration that this line was a limited run of prototypes (and that this bad experience has most likely informed the entire industry).
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Maybe for their next model Fisker will take a few design tips from this electric vehicle [noaa.gov]
Performance concept of pricing? (Score:2)
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
Make no mistake, I'd really love one of these. But $78,500 is pricy...
I'm not going to do the research.
How much do cars that go from 0 to 60 in 4.3 seconds generally cost? I dunno - that sounds very quick to me. This isn't just a sedan.
Nice car for some fraction of the market (Score:4, Informative)
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
It doesn't have to fit every American's price range. It just has to fit the price range of its target audience, which is people who would be buying Mercedes and BMW sedans.
(Also, that $78,500 price quoted was for a model near the top of the line-- the base model is $49,990. http://www.rsportscars.com/tesla/2013-tesla-model-s/ [rsportscars.com] Still a big chunk of cash, but not significantly more than other cars of its class.)
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...not to mention that 265 miles per charge doesn't fit the American concept of usable range. I live in Las Vegas. Nothing is within 265 miles of here: not Los Angeles, not San Diego, not Phoenix, not Salt Lake City, not Reno. You might get to Kingman, Laughlin, or St. George (or even Nothing [wikipedia.org], for that matter :-) ) and back on a charge, but that's about it. I'd imagine the story's not much different anywhere else
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Anywhere on the East Coast the story is different.
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To be fair, LA is 266 miles away from Las Vegas; drive 1mph slower and you'll make it. Alternatively, they plan to put in a fast-charge station [gm-volt.com] in Barstow (152 miles away) as one of the first 6 fast-charge stations just to make sure people can make it from LA to Las Vegas.
Many families in the US have multiple cars and only take one on a road trip at a time. Most families don't need both cars to be able to go 450 miles on a tank that's fillable anywhere in 5 minutes.
Most people live on the coasts, and
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Oh, and there is that all important question of how they hold up in a hurricane.
That's not really all that important. What's more important is whether or not I have to ship the thing to California for maintenance or repairs.
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The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
Make no mistake, I'd really love one of these. But $78,500 is pricy.
Actually, it's worse than that. The article was wrong, the Signature Performance model they tested (with the 4.4s 0-60 time) is $97,900 according to Tesla's site [teslamotors.com] (and well over $100k with options like premium sound, extra row of seats, sunroof, etc). Even the non-signature performance model is $85k, and closer to $95k with options and charging cables. Those are right up there with a Panamera 4S.
Must be nice for those guys at Automobile magazine to get to drive cars without even having a clue how much th
Not *American* pricing, *early adopter* pricing. (Score:3)
Well, when the Ford Model T was introduced in 1908 at $850 ($ in current dollars), the next cheapest automobile you could buy cost over $3000, which is roughly $74K in 2012 dollars. Take the cheapest car you can buy today, say a Nissan Verso at $11,000 list. Cheap as it is, that car probably cost millions to develop, and if it were sold in the quantities that pre-Model T cars were sold it might well cost north of $50,000, just to amortize the engineering costs.
By 1908 standards, the Verso would be a marve
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It is up against cars in the same price category.
The $61k Porche Boxster isn't exactly something that your average American will buy either.
Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Insightful)
Hybrid electric cars like the Prius C are $20k new, but that's not exactly what you're asking about, I realize.
The battery is a big factor in the Model S' cost. 85 kilowatts of lithium ion batteries ain't cheap.
Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:4, Informative)
Hybrid electric cars like the Prius C are $20k new, but that's not exactly what you're asking about, I realize.
The battery is a big factor in the Model S' cost. 85 kilowatts of lithium ion batteries ain't cheap.
The Prius isn't really electric in any sense. Its an Atkinson Cycle car, with a battery and electric motor to make it usable in the real world. There's a reason it can't go highway speeds on electric. That's true of all the hybrids. The Volt is the only non-pure-EV that is really still an EV.
20k electrics (Score:3)
I think I'd be perfectly happy to pay $20k for a Model S with a 5kw battery. You think they'd go for it? :)
Re:20k electrics (Score:4, Informative)
Are you sure a 15 mile range would be all that useful?
The cost of the battery pack is probably at least $10k, but that's not enough to get the thing down to $20k.
The good news (for Tesla) is that it doesn't really matter for this particular car. It's competing in the luxury sports sedan market, where the $70k Model S is actually priced about the same as the gasoline-powered competition of that class. That's a big factor in why automag gave it the "car of the year", because it's a better car at the same price.
If you're choosing Mercedes E-550 for $75k or the Tesla Model S for $70k, and the Model S is considered to be a better car, the price isn't really a factor in that decision. Inconvenience of recharging might be, but the fact that the range on this thing is comparable to a gasoline car means it's fine except for long trips that don't have a supercharge station in the path you want to drive. That should be at least partially resolved in a year or two, once the Supercharge network covers most important routes in the US and Canada.
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Plus the Prius is uglier than my ass. And my ass is hairy and ugly.
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Exactly Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:3)
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If price of the electric car > Price of cheap gas fueled car + 200,000 miles of gasoline then don't buy
You missed the point of this. They weren't comparing this electric car to a Geo or something. They compared it to a Porsche and a BMW, and it kicked their A$$...
The real point is that a gasoline powered sports car has trouble competing with this electric car. So let me know when Porsche comes up with something that can compete with this on performance...
Re:Exactly Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Insightful)
If price of the electric car > Price of cheap gas fueled car + 200,000 miles of gasoline then don't buy
If economics are how you judge a vehicle, spending anything more than a couple grand on a used car is a bad decision for you.
Re:Exactly Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm really happy for the technology to keep rolling forward, and maybe someday the electric car becomes an economical choice.
Re:Exactly Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Interesting)
I think EVs are economical now. That's why I bought one! Because it was the cheapest option.
There are some caveats, though. In order for them to make sense, you first need to be in a position to buy a $35K car, and you need to have a long-enough time horizon for the lower electricity costs to pay for the premium over a comparable gas car. You also need to have driving patterns that stay within the electric range, with enough time between trips for recharging. Related to driving patterns, if you ever drive well beyond the range of the electric, you need a cost-effective alternative. In my case I already have two gasoline-powered cars and needed a third vehicle (there will soon be five drivers in my house!), so it's reasonable for me to fall back on the gas cars when necessary. Another alternative, if you don't need to make longer trips often, is to rent. Finally, you need to get tax credits. Without the available tax credits the EVs are middle-of-the-road options. Not terrible, but not great.
Of course, all of this will get better: range will improve, charging time will decrease, cost will come down. But there's a chance that an EV may be an economical choice for you now.
Re:Exactly Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Insightful)
If price of the electric car > Price of cheap gas fueled car + 200,000 miles of gasoline then don't buy
If economics are how you judge a vehicle, spending anything more than a couple grand on a used car is a bad decision for you.
If economics are your *only* consideration, maybe. Personally, I just bought a Nissan Leaf, and the evaluation was made primarily on economics -- but with the starting point that I was going to buy new, because I prefer to buy new and drive for many years. Given the available new car options, and my driving patterns and related requirements, and the available tax credits, the Leaf and the i-MiEV were the cheapest options. Many small gasoline-powered cars were much cheaper up front, but when you factor in 8 years of fuel, the electrics win hands down (for me).
If anyone is interested in my analysis, I did it in a Google Docs spreadsheet, which I'm happy to share: http://links.willden.org/electric [willden.org]
Note that if you dig into the calculations in the spreadsheet some of the cells contain insanely-complex formulas which are not obviously meaningful. My calculation was done by assuming a normal distribution of trip lengths, applying the obvious cost function to lengths and computing the expected value of the resulting random variable. That calculation is fairly hairy and the resulting formulas are expressed primarily in terms of the Gaussian error function. I used Mathematica to compute the expected value expressions and then converted them to spreadsheet formulas. The result works very nicely, but the functions appear to be insane. For example, the image I included on this Google+ post [google.com] shows the expression for the expected cost of operating a plug-in hybrid.
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It's a luxury car.
Cheap gas fueled car is not going to be an option anyone buying this considered. A BMW 5 is not cheap.
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Well, the gas tax is about 10% [bankrate.com] of each gallon, which is hardly "vast."
I agree something would have to be done if electric cars get very popular though.
Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe next time!
Not maybe, that's exactly the plan. Notice the trajectory here:
1) Tesla Roadster: Take a standard chassis, turn it into an electric car, sell as a high-performance roadster to people with ludicrous money lying around. The goal: to have a car prove the key technology: the battery and the engine.
2) Model S/X: Take the proven technology of the Roadster, put it into a sexy car that causes rich people to open their wallets, and sell it at a nice markup in the luxury segment. The goal: to work out the kinks in their manufacturing equipment and their supply chain.
3) Take their proven technology and manufacturing capability to create an electric for everybody.
In essence, Musk is doing a slow ramp-up that allows him to have customers subsidize the development of their final car. The 5k downpayment for a Model S is just as brilliant: it's free money for Tesla to build out their manufacturing capability. I love the Model S as a car, but it's the business model and the man at the top that makes think that Tesla is going to be the game changer for electric cars. The comparisons to Steve Jobs are not unwarranted.
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Given that- and the time it has been since the Roadster came out- then for my 65th birthday I'll be able to afford a 2nd hand Tesla.
I turn 42 in two weeks.
Re:Exactly. 78k is luxury territory (Score:5, Insightful)
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Wake me up when an electric car is $20k new
http://i.mitsubishicars.com/ [mitsubishicars.com]
$21.625 after the tax credit. So... wake up.
it's a motor, controller and a chassis, for crying out loud.
And a very expensive battery. The Nissan Leaf's battery costs http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/ [slashdot.org]">$18,000 to produce. This is why you don't see really good electric cars at that low of a price point. Fortunately, we have people making electric sports cars and they will help drive the advances in battery technology, eventually leading to cheaper, better batteries a
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Screwed that link, didn't I.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/ [autoblog.com]
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While $20k for a new automobile may be your price point for purchasing one of these vehicles, why do you think this is a ridiculous price? Dismissing the cost here as if Tesla was somehow gouging the customers and that they have maybe $5k worth of parts and engineering in this vehicle is sort of absurd on your part.
There are some incredibly cheap electric automobiles including Zap Jonway [zapworld.com], who sells an incredibly cheap electric vehicle. They don't have the performance of Tesla vehicles though. You could a
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Musk has said that his intention is to end up manufacturing a truly affordable electric car, and that this stage (the model S) isn't that; I'll take him at his word. Maybe next time! :)
To be fair, he's going about it the right way. He's bringing costs down by manufacturing an expensive vehicle for those that can afford it. The Model S is not only a much better car than the Roadster, it's also significantly cheaper. The Model X also looks fantastic. I imagine in another 5-7 years you'll get your $20k Tesla announced.
I just have to wonder... (Score:3)
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I imagine the first fusion-powered car will make it as well.
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I'd be curious what sort of fusion powering device you are thinking of here? There is no bloody way that a Tokamak style reactor could ever fit inside of anything smaller than the mobile launch platform that was used for the Space Shuttle, although the Polywell and Focus Fusion devices might be able to fit inside of a mid to large size ship (like a modern military submarine, aircraft carrier, or cruise ship). It is a matter of physics and being able to handle the plasma needed to cause fusion in the first
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Fusion powered cars give me the weirdest boner. Like a car that could operate for a hundred years without any fuel... is just plain sexy!!! I could program my car to drive nonstop and I would never have to pay for rent as long as I stayed off toll-roads.
What, don't tell me the fusion-powered car won't be flying. It has to be, they promised it.
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It is hand crafted, inch by inch. Not mass produced.
Like a Rolls-Royce?
"Model S" (Score:3, Interesting)
Did anyone else get the "Model T" reference? Like Tesla is taking a step back from the harmful environmentally dangerous combustion vehicles and redoing the whole thing. I have to admit this impresses me.
I bet we'll look back in few hundred years from within the confines of our brain jars and enjoy some very fine dream-inspired brandies and smoke about the wonders of the physical world and how foolish we were to think that was a good place to dwell for all eternity.
But until then let's enjoy these new environmentally friendly cars! To go from nowhere to nowhere for no reason other than your boss wants you to, and doing it all in style, without a bad environmental footprint apart from the scrap metal each of these will become one day.
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42% of electricity is generated from coal. You've still got a bad environmental footprint. You're just not polluting your immediate area.
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You must work for an oil company :-) The important thing here is energy diversity. With an
all electric drive train, you can be powered from Nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, gas/diesel/biodesel,
coal, alcohol, etc. You also have the long term ability to provide your own power (e.g. solar)
instead of relying large multinational companies to do it for you with many layers of companies
taking a piece of the pie (including stock market shenanigans).
The idea car for me would be a car with an all electric drive-train,
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Putting the generator in the car is too heavy. Just add a class I trailer hitch and put the generator on a hitch rack for long trips.
Re:"Model S" (Score:5, Informative)
if you're in maine, half of your power is renewables and hydro and the other half is mostly natural gas. so... kind of depends where you live.
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More the same point in the development of batteries. The actual engine is 25 year old tech.
Just showing up is 90 per cent (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Tesla is leading the electric-car market mindshare for the simple reason that they've actually shipped a product, unlike perpetual bullshit machines BYD and Coda, who ship nothing but vaporware (wait, no - I think BYD eventually managed to get a few dozen out the door a few months ago, or something like that).
2) Think and Smart are/were doomed because they shipped crap that no-one was interested in. WTF is a "neighborhood electric vehicle"? I want a fucking ELECTRIC CAR, not a low-speed electric shitbox.
3) Series hybrids have a niche (garbage trucks and buses, mostly), and passenger cars are not that niche. This is why the Volt and Karma are failures.
4) Where are the lithium-air batteries?
5) The E 300 Bluetec HYBRID is cool.
Re:Just showing up is 90 per cent (Score:5, Insightful)
I was looking into Tesla's patents out of curiosity a few weeks ago and saw that they have a lot of patents regarding lithium-air batteries. It looks like they have looked long and hard at them and come up with ways to address their strengths and weaknesses, even though LABs are probably years away from production.
ROT-13 [Re:Just showing up is 90 per cent] (Score:3)
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
My ROT-26 decryptor technology can defeat your use of dual ROT-13 encryption in under 100 milliseconds! (*way* under 100 milliseconds).
--and I'm upgrading to ROT-52!
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I wonder... (Score:2)
I wonder if the Tesla cars have the same "hydrophobia" as the Fisker Karma ones that went up in flames in the flooding from Hurricane Sandy?
Canadians are out of luck! (Score:3)
Can anyone convince me that this car can do well in the Canadian winter?
I imagine a dude freezing inside when he employs the heater. The [luxury] car then becomes a frozen coffin!
Yikes!
Re:Canadians are out of luck! (Score:4, Informative)
Can anyone convince me that this car can do well in the Canadian winter?
I'm sure it will run great at forty below. For about ten kilometers.
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Yeah, it would be such a burden to have to plug in the vehicle to keep the battery warm. It's not like we have to do that with current gasoline engine cars or anything.
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Expend power? The battery will generate plenty of waste heat on its own in normal operation. Quite a bit of effort goes into keep the battery pack cooled.
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Yeah, I'm a Minnesotan, so I'm all too familiar with the cold weather problems. But I can still appreciate innovation, even if the solution doesn't work for everyone (yet?).
You can buy an EV today at affordable price (Score:5, Informative)
I have a Nissan Leaf. Range is under 100 miles but that meets my around town driving needs. We have my wife;s Prius for trips. Lease prices in October for 2012s were $200/month, $0 down, 24 months. Top speed is >90mph, seats 4 comfortably, 5 if a couple are kids. Decent trunk room. Good acceleration. Overnight charging in the garage with 120V (included) charger keeps me running, and my employer has 6 free charging stations on site, our town has 4, hospital has 2, etc.
Since there is no ICE, there is no oil to change, no transmission, no fluids to change, only 2 (windshield washer, inverter coolant) to top off. Only maintenance is changing wiper blades and rotating tires.
All in all a very drivable car, great end of year pricing, and very low cost to drive. EVs are here, available and practical. I love mine.
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So, your electric car doesn't have brakes and suspension? What about when the tires wear out and have to be replaced?
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I usually need tires yearly if I'm commuting. We have rough roads where I live, though. The Leaf comes with LRR tires with a higher lifetime, though.
If you have a lease car, all that maintenance is done for you anyway, so you're not making a fair comparison anyway. You're talking about a lot of maintenance you don't have to do.
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This argument comes up often, but how many people actually have boats, trailers, or other "toys" that they need to pull?
Personally, I ask a friend or family member with a van if they can help me move, or I rent a truck from U-Haul. Also, I've never had the need to pull anything, so perhaps a truck from Home Depot would be perfect.
Obviously if your job involves a lot of hauling, then you are going to get the right tool for the job. But why would I need to buy a pickup truck for the rare instances when I buy
Re:You can buy an EV today at affordable price (Score:4, Interesting)
lol, what do you haul things with, or do you rent a truck from Home Depot every time you want to pull your boat, trailer, etc?
Toys...
I just got a 2012 Leaf (which I love -- awesome little car), and I also have a camp trailer (28'), a boat (20') and an ATV trailer, so I think I'm well-positioned to answer your question:
I pull the toys with my Dodge Durango. I commute and go to the grocery store and take the kids to school and etc., etc., in the Leaf.
Does that answer your question?
Car of the year my ass.... (Score:2)
Second off, it does not compare to Porsche in any real way, speed, agility, handling, comfort, all go to Porsche.
Next, its too expensive. 80 Grand for a car that looks like an ugly Buick? No thank you, I'll but a GTR or GT500 instead. Don't forget that you will need a 240W outlet (most homes have only one for your dryer), so you'll need that, or the high performance charging unit. Count on a nice addition t
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I don't think that it's ugly, but I would never buy one for the price. Ever.
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You need your sense of taste checked. It doesn't look ugly at all. And a Le Sabre? Are you kidding? Have you even looked at the pictures? Are you blind?
If you want to compare to Porche, compare to their saloon, the Panamera. Or, perhaps, a BMW M5 or a Mercedes S500, which is what this provides similar features to. Except the acceleration, which is comparable to a Porche 911 Carrera, which happens to cost $80k. Odd that. http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera/featuresandspecs/ [porsche.com]
What you pay in elect
The wrong car won. (Score:2)
I think the car that SHOULD have won is the Ford C-Max Hybrid--especially with the Energi plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) coming out nationally in spring 2013. Unlike the Tesla Model S with its totally silly price tag, you can get a C-Max Hybrid for 1/3 the cost and still get over 40 mpg easily reasonable daily driving.
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I think the car that SHOULD have won is the Ford C-Max Hybrid
This was automobile of the year, not econobox of the year. The Tesla was in the top three with the BRZ and Boxster, which are all of a much higher level of performance than the Ford Crap-Max box.
Car mag writes aren't going to pick a total performance dog for Car of the Year. The C-Max Hybrid only has electric top speed of 62mph!
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If you're looking at the Ford C-Max, you should probably check out a VW Golf TDI. It gets over 50MPG. It has for the last 8 years. And you're complaining that the Tesla is expensive? Compare it to a BMW 5-series, which is what it provides similar performance to. It's not a bad deal at all then, and looks way cooler.
The sticker vs the savings (Score:2)
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Car of the Year? (Score:2)
I know... it's their award, they can do what they want, but I would assume that the "car of the year" would be the best mix of:
*Affordability
*Driver/Passenger Safety
*Safety for Other Road Users
*Fuel Economy/GHG Emissions per Mile
*Sustainability of Production and Retirement
*Attractiveness to the General Public
*Real-World Availability
Big Test Not Yet Reached: Mass Production (Score:3)
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they make sense as commuter cars (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're a single person driving tens of miles to work then tens of miles back, it totally makes sense to have a tiny electric car. Charge it at home, charge it at work, you're good to go.
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Anyone who drives less than 30 miles to work every day (which is the majority of Americans) is a potential EV owner.
Don't you drive anywhere else?
When you compare EVs to similarly-tricked-out gas cars, the prices are close
No, my VW Jetta TDI was considerably cheaper and is much less of a hassle.
and when you include fuel and maintenance savings the EV wins outright
No, how much gas and maintenance (are we including replacing the batteries here?) can you get for $50k?
I don't know about you, but my personal driving habits don't include spontaneous trips of more than 100 miles without at least stopping to trade cars with a relative for the weekend.
Really? Do you live in the future, or perhaps a parallel universe?
The marginally-reduced flexibility is totally worth the savings, moral satisfaction, and pedal-flooring fun of driving a clean electric vehicle.
I'm glad you like it. I can't afford it, though. Plus, I don't want one.
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Let's compare hydrogen and electric vehicles:
Hydrogen: Available at a handful of gas stations around the country. Still not the same range as gas cars, still need to drive to a fueling station to fill up. Still has a battery in addition to the ridiculously expensive hydrogen fuel cells.
Electric: Available at thousands of public charging stations around the country, and millions of standard AC outlets, but you almost never need them because you plug in at home every night without ever having to detou