Samsung Reaches Milestone For 14nm Technology 123
An anonymous reader writes "Samsung announced a milestone on its development of 14nm manufacturing semiconductors, claiming that it offers major advantages to system-on-chip devices using in consumer electronic products (especially lower power). They recently taped out a Cortex-A7 processor with this technology, calling it a significant milestone for the fabless ecosystem."
fabless ecosystem? (Score:3)
Re:fabless ecosystem? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:fabless ecosystem? (Score:5, Funny)
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Homeless? No, not really. In social terms I'd compare a fabless ecosystem with a bachelor - wherever I lay my head, that's my home.
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I guess it means they're selling fab capacity to companies who cannot manufacture their own chips. AMD and Nvidia would be an example of such companies, but so would a lot of others.
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Re:fabless ecosystem? (Score:5, Informative)
With mobile devices, the CPU as well as many other logic components (GPU, accelerometers, compass, GPS, video decompression) are provided as licensed silicon designs. These designs are combined together by a separate vendor to form a complete system, thus System-On-A-Chip. These companies don't make boards, connectors, chips, or even silicon dies, they just license designs and device drivers. MEMS alone allows sensors like accelerometers, compasses to be implemented using standard silicon manufacturing processes with no additional hardware required. Other companies may provide profiling and debugging tools. So a complete ecosystem forms.
With Samsung being able to get down to 14nm, that means every company benefits. There is now space for more transistors, so everyone can add more features, more cache memory, more cores.
Just like Linux. One group does kernel work, another group does compilers and debuggers, someone else does GUI, X-windows, and others maintain web browsers, device drivers and command line applications. These are all combined to form a Linux distribution ISO file.
Re:fabless ecosystem? (Score:5, Insightful)
With Samsung being able to get down to 14nm, that means every company benefits.
You put too much polish on the apple.
Fabless means you are someone else's Bitch. You have to buy from someone else because you don't have a fabrication facility to make your own processors.
Like Apple, currently shopping around for another chip manufacturer after Samsung raised prices, (to earn back billion dollar fine which will most likely be overturned on appeal). Even if Apple finds another fab to make their processors and related chips, they will still be a generation behind Samsung.
With the power savings available at 14nm, Samsung will be able to ask premium prices. All the smaller manufactures will end up buying from Samsung.
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Sounds like the market working as it should to me.
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Yes, it does -- by creating monopolies.
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i don't know why you're modded troll, but I'm replying just to cancel my "overrated" mis-click mod. I meant to hit "underrated". Damn my old eyes.
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That reported story, sourced from a single Korean newspaper article, has been denied:
http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-wont-increase-the-price-of-apple-processors-report-7000007412/ [zdnet.com]
As they are in contract, I find it hard to believe that a supplier could arbitrarily raise prices.
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Maybe it wasn't just to earn the fine back, maybe they were deliberately trying to get rid of Apple. So far Apple has been able to make fairly competitive CPUs, but the jump to 14nm could put them behind and Samsung probably doesn't want to help them keep up.
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Like Apple, currently shopping around for another chip manufacturer after Samsung raised prices, (to earn back billion dollar fine which will most likely be overturned on appeal).
Nice story, but not true. [thestreet.com]
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fabulous ecosystem? (Score:2)
It's Koren for fabulous ecosystem.
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Companies like Nvidia, Apple, google that want custom chips built but don't want to own chip-making factories. 14nm is catching up with Intel. IBM and AMD are maybe one step behind at least for production. But they are a big shep ahead of TMSC who is the BIG player in the space... Namely, who Apple is moving to.
Of course it's a douvle whammy for Apple as its Apple's upfront money that allows Samsung manufacturing to get ahead... While the consumer sales division knifes Apple in the back... So Apple's gotta
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prior art! (Score:5, Funny)
Apple should sue them for "method and apparatus" to make something smaller.
Wouldn't it also infringe (Score:2, Funny)
I don't hate Apple. (Score:2)
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I will agree that there are a lot of clueless people around tho.
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Actually it does apply to patents. I have no idea where you get your info from.
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No it doesn't. Stop intentionally spreading misinformation.
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Apple is enforcing their patents. The law REQUIRES them to do so or risk losing their patents.
Absolutely not true. They always have the option of licensing them at reasonable prices.
But the funny part, is Apple's track record of defending their patents. It seems most of the patents they put at risk by using them as the basis for a law suit are ultimately declared invalid. You would think they would be a little worried about suing these days, and just start collecting license fees.
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It's absolutely true. Yes, they can choose to license the technology but Samsung made no attempt to do so. Apple approached Samsung with licensing terms (that were pricey) and Samsung refused to pay. The inevitable law suit followed. Keep in mind that Samsung would have had a much better negotiating position had the approached Apple prior to using the technology than afterwards.
Honestly, I don't get why people feel sorry for a giant company like Samsung that knows better.
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Go fuck yourself clueless bitch: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57491406-37/2010-apple-license-offer-to-samsung-$30-per-smartphone-$40-per-tablet/ [cnet.com]
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Iol...I'm not emotionally attached to any company. I own Apple products (MBA) but I also own a Samsung Galaxy Nexus, a Nexus 7, and a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1. Still think I'm a fanboy, dipshit? I think it's obvious you're the one with emotional issues since you feel the need to defend this practice of making incredibly unoriginal jokes.
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This is only news because Samsung is gonna have to sell this to somebody OTHER THAN APPLE... It was DESIGNED just for Apple... So Apple is directly relevant.
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Source?
I don't see how they wouldn't want this for themselves.
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Because Samsung sells fab services. These processes cost billions to set up so you gotta have a full 24x7x365 dockett lined up before you turn the thing on.
Apple has been one of their largest customers for a decade. Except the master of Samsung "parts" can't keep the masters of Samsung "gadgets" from publically marketing against their top customer's products (the ones with 50% of the costs of parts coming BACK to Samsung's wallet)
This is only news because the line WOULD have been maxed out making stuff for
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Seriously people...please stop introducing Apple into every fucking conversation
If you were intelligent enough to be permitted to use a computer you would have noticed that this is a story about Samsung. It's not "every fucking conversation" when it's about Samsung. Please go away until you get smarter.
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What does Samsung's new 14nm process have to do with Apple, dumbfuck? Nothing. It's not even mentioned in the originating article. Seriously, we you get a few brain cells to rub together, come on back. Until then, go fuck yourself you worthless piece of shit. Merry Christmas.
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Apple would have loved to pay Aamsung for this tech... In fact basically Apple IS paying, right now, for it as EVERY iPod, iPad, and iPhone processor sold so far is from Samsung... Samsung's management can't grasp not to fuck over its own biggest customer so Apple is moving elsewhere.. Like has been said, to get another supplier that won't screw them over by directly MARKETING products against them.
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Apple can't seem to grasp not to piss off the number 1 manufacturer and leader in many of the techs apple Needs. The only loser here is apple. If they hadn't acted like arseholes they would have probably been at the front of the queue to take advantage of this,
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Umm, no. They had a hell of a time moving to 22nm and getting volume production up, pretty much your entire post is just paranoid delusion.
Intel just has more money to throw at the problems, and they've managed to get a lead of a few years on the other companies. They only maintain that lead because they keep pushing forward.
The problem is that makes it harder for everybody else to compete, but that's not really Intel's fault.
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That only holds until Intel started strong-arming the board and boxmakers not to build K7 systems.
I see what you did there...
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ARM is cheaper and that's why intel is screwed
Few computing tasks need the power of an I core CPU
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Depends on your cost metric. They're only cheaper if you don't consider cost per computation/second.
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you're right that few computing tasks need the power of an I core until you start looking into the performance and do what I'm planning. My next build revolves around an E3-1245v2 Xeon that will be underclocked to around 10 percent. Should meet my current performance (x2-240) for less then 15 watts. Right now, I'm projecting a total of 60w for the CPU/GPU/SSD/3x 2TB Drives. This system will be run off a solar power system (off-grid home) and used as the Gaming/Media Center
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I beg to differ.
I'd rather pay 200 bucks for a processor that actually gets stuff done, than pay 25 for one that tends to work well with very specific stuff. And let's not even go into energy efficiency.
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In the 80's someone once said.
No one will ever need more than 1GB of memory....
I think you will find that was 1 megabyte. - the original IBM PC could only address 640KB.
1GB would have been unthinkable until a few years ago. I can remember being massively impressed by a 64MB machine in the mid '90s.
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To be honest, I tried to sum up some outrage over your statement... but I just couldn't.
If Intel really is THAT good that they can coast through life and still beat their competition in technological advancements... then fine.
Eventually, if your theory is right, someone will come along (maybe even ex-Intel engineers) and beat them. It is already happening in other sectors.
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Mod post ignorant. If that were true, AMD wouldnt have been so far superior to Intel back in the P4 / Pentium D days.
Fact is it takes about 3-5 years for this tech to be fully realized, and Intel is currently (AFAIK) the only one with solid 22nm production simply because their R&D budget is huge. If you find that scary or whatever you can send your dollars to AMD to help them get up to speed.
Still a year behind Intel (Score:1)
Tape-out means Samsung has got a design that they think might work but hasn't actually been fabbed. Intel has had WORKI(NG 14nm microprocessors (in the lab, not in production) since mid 2012. It will be mid 2013 before Samsung has that. Intel will be in production by then. (Production starts some months before retail shipments since they have to build up inventory, get parts to integrators, etc.) Intel's lead seems to be about where it was before, not getting larger but isn't clearly getting smaller.
Re:Better than Intel (Score:5, Informative)
you know AMD is only 10 months younger than intel right? or that Acron computers, where the ARM guys came from has been developing their cpu since the 1980's?
cause you make it sound like they just popped up out of nowhere yesterday, or maybe that's just your uninformed tinfoil hat conspiracy that intel, 2pac and sea lab are really ruling the world.
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Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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I've got an Acron box within 3 feet if me (oh, sorry - my last day in the office was Friday).
Regardless - they were sweet little things.
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It's not like Intel had any extra gears to put in when AMD was spanking their ass some years back, they had a process lead and sustained that lead even as AMD was putting out much better CPU designs but no more than that. But the CPU business has been very much so that the one who invests more, earns more and then has more to invest more again and Intel has simply beat AMD by spreading the costs of R&D across more chips. For a while AMD beat it by developing a better design on a lower budget while Intel
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"Intel probably have the processors that are 'coming out' in 2017 already laying on a shelf in a warehouse somewhere by the millions."
In the off chance you meant this literally, no. It would be extremely stupid to stock up real hardware that far ahead. I do suspect however that Intel has the technology already in the labs, which I suppose is what they base their so-called "roadmaps" on. The future is already here, it just hasn't been stress-tested yet.
Translation please (Score:1)
They recently taped out a Cortex-A7 processor with this technology, calling it a significant milestone for the fabless ecosystem."
I'm very good at the English language but I have no idea what this means. How do you 'tape out' a processor? What's a 'fabless ecosystem'? (The rainforests are rather wonderful, I hear.)
Re:Translation please (Score:5, Informative)
"Tape out" is a term of art of the processor industry. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out [wikipedia.org] where the first sentence will tell you "In electronics design, tape-out or tapeout is the final result of the design cycle for integrated circuits or printed circuit boards, the point at which the artwork for the photomask of a circuit is sent for manufacture."
"Fabless ecosystem" is another term of art of the processor industry. Wikipedia is similarly helpful here at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabless_manufacturing [wikipedia.org] -- where the first sentence will read "Fabless manufacturing is the design and sale of hardware devices and semiconductor chips while outsourcing the fabrication or "fab" of the devices to a specialized manufacturer called a semiconductor foundry."
STFW FTW.
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hmm TSMC has a rather large profit margin for 1-5b to even open it.
9.53B in complete profit in 2010 so within 1 year not only could said foundry pay its self off, it could also pay off all employees and leave 9.5 BILLION in liquid assets per year.
Revenue $13.982 billion (2010)
Operating income $4.444 billion (2009)
cost to open a foundry is also found on wikipedia between 1-4 billion dollars, which given yearly profit margins...is one insane investment...someone is living a very nice lif
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that was their total profit though, so even if they had 5+ plants my point is it would pay for its self so fast that it would be utterly negligible.
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Re:Translation please (Score:5, Interesting)
"Tape out" is in my dad's generation they used the same tech for photolithography for both PCBs and ICs. In other words a "Draftsman" (which is kind of like a CAD operator, but manual, done by hand) using what looks like black electrical tape stripes on clear mylar sheets. Then a projector blasts UV light thru the marked up sheet onto a photosensitive copper circuit board, or silicon slice, and where the UV hits the plastic polymerizes and is "permanent" and where it doesn't, it washes away. Sorta like a photo negative enlarger but more of a shrinker than an enlarger... which is another mostly dead technology. You'll meet people who rewrite history for laughs who claim the "tape" is magnetic tape of cad drafting or maybe Verilog/VHDL. In the "biz" it means the dev team has ended work and the responsibility is now entirely on the production team (assuming it achieves production level success on the first try, without any design issues ruining yield, LOL)
"Fabless ecosystem" is fru fru talk for you outsource your manufacturing to a company (usually a competitor) you trust to give you reliable access to their best processes, while trusting them not to "pirate" your IP which is your companies only resource. Its a great idea for weird stuff where you can corner the market or R+D or teaching. Strikes me as an idiotic business model for competitive "mainstream" processors or generic commodity chips.
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I did some "taping out" in the 70s, the black tape was for things on both sides of the PCB (e.g. holes and edge connectors), while blue and red tape were used for top and bottom traces.
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They recently taped out a Cortex-A7 processor with this technology, calling it a significant milestone for the fabless ecosystem."
I'm very good at the English language but I have no idea what this means. How do you 'tape out' a processor? What's a 'fabless ecosystem'? (The rainforests are rather wonderful, I hear.)
"Taping out" [wikipedia.org] is the process of laying out the actual lines that will become the paths of the circuit. This used to be done with actual tape and photographed and reduced in size. Somehow I doubt they actually used that method with this and more likely the work was all done on a computer.
I can only assume a "fabless ecosystem" is a fancy way of saying "the industry of making something when you don't make anything" or chip design/IP creation.
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There was also "tape" used to create
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A processor is designed using a programming language like Verilog [wikipedia.org] or VHDL [wikipedia.org]. These languages provide standard logic cell libraries that support floating-point, integer arithmetic and multiplication.
Whatever you can implement in C/C++ software, you can implement in hardware, with various optimizations like parallel processing, pipelining.
At the same time as the processor is being designed, verification tests are written to test every logic block. Tape-out is that special time at the end of the project when the
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They recently taped out a Cortex-A7 processor with this technology, calling it a significant milestone for the fabless ecosystem."
I'm very good at the English language but I have no idea what this means. How do you 'tape out' a processor? What's a 'fabless ecosystem'? (The rainforests are rather wonderful, I hear.)
There are many steps in the design of any modern digital device. Transferring information from step to step was often accomplished with a digital tape(s) full of files. When one step finishes they send a tape out to the next step. Thus "tape out".
The first steps are often logical and classic designs were done on yellow pads of paper by hand. S. Cray was famous for this. This is where the data bus details are set down. Think of it as the primary.h file for the hardware.
Other steps are silicon t
Continuous disclosure (Score:5, Insightful)
One could think that this announcement of 14nm development is Samsung one-upping their competition.
Another interpretation is that companies need to exercise "continuous disclosure" in order to be taken seriously in the share markets and not fall foul of the market regulators which insist that companies reveal important information as soon as is practicable so that investors and possible investors get a true picture of the company's market worth. In most cases, a good-news story is a great way to have the market clamouring to invest, and so assists the company to raise the capital needed to get its developments to market.
It also does not hurt to rub the nose of the opposition.
Can't wait for 14nm flash (Score:2)
Then our SSDs will survive a whole SEVEN program/erase cycles.
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Samsung at 14 nm, Intel at 22 nm (Score:2)
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That was for SOC.
CPU's began earlier.
From (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_%28microarchitecture%29) and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer)
"On October 19, 2011, Intel CEO Paul Otellini confirmed that Ivy Bridge 22 nm processor volume production has already begun"
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Pretty big difference:
Intel is selling millions of processors made with a 22nm process right now.
Samsung just finished designing a processor that will enter prototyping soon/is being tested. Their process may have horrible yields, be too costly or have any number of problems. This "milestone" is akin to having the tech drawings of a car ready - it's hype until we see results.
Last I checked, most Samsung silicon was at 28nm, I think, with NAND flash at 23/22nm.
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Well, looks like the copying boosted innovation after all! Apple invented "methods and apparatus of rubbing stuff" that's nothing. At most they created concepts, copying is good, and all this new protection on "inventions" is just slowing us down.
And... (Score:2)
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TVs, Blu-ray & DVD Players, Home Theater Systems, Laptops, Chrome Devices, Media Players, Cameras, Camcorders, SD Cards, Laptops, All-in-One PCs, Tablet PCs, Monitors, Printers, Memory & Storage, Washers & Dryers, Refrigerators, Microwaves, Dishwashers, Ranges, Vacuums, LED Lighting, TV Accessories, Cell Phone Accessories, Tablet Accessories, Printer Toner & Supplies, Laptop Accessories, Digital Camera Accessories -- http://www.samsung.com/us [samsung.com]
you forgot air conditioning units! saw them in Faro this year on holiday at the hotel ;)
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apple has never fabbed a chip in the entire history of the company, nor would they even begin to know how to, fucktard
So you're saying (Score:2, Offtopic)
Samsung fanbois here are also Steve Jobs fans, since he led the revolution they're all trying to claim now for themselves
Re:So you're sayin (Score:2)