The Data That Drove Yahoo's Telecommuting Ban 529
Stiletto writes "Business Insider and All Things D are reporting that Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer's decision to ban telecommuting was data-driven, as you'd expect out of the former Google exec. After spending months frustrated at how empty Yahoo parking lots were, Mayer consulted Yahoo's VPN logs to see if remote employees were checking in enough. Despite all the outrage and flak she's getting from those outside the company for the move, some ex-employees are praising the decision, citing abuse, slacking off, and general 'unavailability' of folks working from home."
I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Conversely, I'm working from home today, and between webmail and a slow / flaky VPN I'm not attached to the work network except when I need to exchange some documents.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Funny)
If you have to connect to VPN say three times a day because it was flaky does that mean you triple turned up for work and are super-productive using the Mayer productivity measurement methodology?
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, that you're busy working on something that doesn't need connection to Yahoo's central systems probably.
That or Yahoo's hiring process is so flawed they ended up employing society's layabouts and nothing else.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, that you're busy working on something that doesn't need connection to Yahoo's central systems probably.
That or Yahoo's hiring process is so flawed they ended up employing society's layabouts and nothing else.
That.... that would explain a lot actually.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
That or Yahoo's hiring process is so flawed they ended up employing society's layabouts and nothing else.
Having a liberal telecommute policy is the first step to attracting those people. If your hiring process and your evaluation process aren't good at identifying those employees, you'll become a haven for them and people who use the policy legitimately will begin to resent having to do all the work while others abuse the system.
But that really means the problem is with management, not with the policy. And if management is the problem, it almost certainly manifests itself in other ways in the organization.
Like, for example, the CEO thinking it's appropriate to build a nursery for her own child in her office. Is she really going to be devoting her time to the company when her kid is there, crying - even if the nanny is there? Wouldn't it be better to offer a separate nursery to all the employees, and staff it with caring people who will care for the kids?
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Informative)
Supposedly they also had an SSH gateway that employees could use instead of VPN.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
I only connect to VPN if I need to see a VNC session. I do all my coding/verilog work locally and ignore VPN (and use our webmail to see what's going on).
She just wants to fire people, the data is a pretense.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the problem using any metric, really...
If I wanted to slack off and pretend to work (like the rest of the team would ever let that happen!), I'd simply fire up the VPN, then have some small program randomly open and close certain binaries on the remote servers, etc.
At work? Meh - I could slack off very easily by simply walking around a lot carrying papers, chatting with friends, or whatever. Far too many ways to slack off in a cube farm.
Problem is, when I was telecommuting? I was too busy on the phone in conferences w/ remote company clients, had deadlines to meet, and in IM sessions with other team members helping them out (and getting help). Because I worked on the servers, I had VPN open from 8am to 6pm on most days... working. Now, I show up at 8, then leave at 5.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the problem using any metric, really...
If I wanted to slack off and pretend to work (like the rest of the team would ever let that happen!), I'd simply fire up the VPN, then have some small program randomly open and close certain binaries on the remote servers, etc.
At work? Meh - I could slack off very easily by simply walking around a lot carrying papers, chatting with friends, or whatever. Far too many ways to slack off in a cube farm.
Problem is, when I was telecommuting? I was too busy on the phone in conferences w/ remote company clients, had deadlines to meet, and in IM sessions with other team members helping them out (and getting help). Because I worked on the servers, I had VPN open from 8am to 6pm on most days... working. Now, I show up at 8, then leave at 5.
The metrics don't have to be so obtuse. Your employees are assigned to projects and they're held accountable on being able to deliver, and having managers on the ball enough to recognize that 25 day estimate for modifying text on a dialog box is bullshit, and a 5 day estimate to make web systems be able to print blueberry waffles at users homes is impossible.
VPN logins, butts in seats, donuts missing from the lounge are numbers that don't really matter.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
The metrics don't have to be so obtuse. Your employees are assigned to projects and they're held accountable on being able to deliver, and having managers on the ball enough to recognize that 25 day estimate for modifying text on a dialog box is bullshit, and a 5 day estimate to make web systems be able to print blueberry waffles at users homes is impossible.
This. And while it annoys us ICs when managers lead inquisitions into why we're not delivering as unreasonably expected, this is really what they're trying to understand and what a good manager knows how to parse and report up.
I may deliver something way ahead of schedule and be a ridiculous loser, or I may deliver something 6 months late and be a superhero. My bosses job is to a) understand what I do enough to know when i'm padding (and why, and if maybe the padding is a good idea for the company) and b) understanding what i'm doing on a weekly basis enough to know how busy I am. It really does not matter if I am physically there, rarely do I even SEE my boss and as a hw guy I'm almost always physically at work. But he always knows what I'm doing (and I have had exceptionally good managers).
This thing where hte CEO pulls VPN logs implies she doens't trust her management chain, and thinks her employees are slacking off. Or she's decided she's got to knife 10% of her workforce cheaply, so she's starting with low hanging fruit.
Re: (Score:3)
More likely
Why?
Has this data made more public appearances than Elvis today?
Why should it? Do you commonly expect companies to release all of the data used to support their decisions?
Re: (Score:3)
The average user learns fast when they go to visit theonion or reddit, and get the "STOP" page from the web proxy that megacorps direct all traffic through to censor the internet.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Funny)
Stop posting on Slashdot, Kevin.
If you're not in my office by 6am tomorrow in smart casual dress for a pop quiz on "Watercooler Culture" you're fired.
Smart casual means ironed chinos and a dress shirt by the way, not filthy jeans and a filthier Tux T shirt with pin burns in it. Which reminds me, they'll be a drugs test afterwards.
Also a visit to the hairdresser might be in the best interests of your career, if you know what I mean.
Enjoy your evening!
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Butts in seats is sooooo much easier to measure than productivity. Measuring productivity requires actual work by the managers!!
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Interesting)
If you make managers do useful work how will they slack off?
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Funny)
Give them slashdot accounts?
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Why does being at home guarentee productivity? From the comments, a lot of people appear to believe being in the office is less productive than being at home, but at least with a VPN, it can be measured how much data is being sent to and recieved from the telecomuters. I doubt a former Google exec would make a decision like this lightly.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
It's still an imperfect metric.
I can make a script to randomly send data to and from servers, then delete the data once it arrives at the destination. If I uploaded, oh, a geolocation IP file to random servers, that's 250MB each go. If you're just measuring MB/GB, I could be a top performer in less than a week by stint of a simple script. ;)
In order to reliably measure employee productivity remotely, you have to do one of two things:
1) install a keylogger and mouse tracker on every employee's remote laptop, some BI bits to the VPN connections and mail servers, then have teams combing through the resulting data. Be prepared to add FTE slots, disk space, a server or so, and a lot of budget for this.
2) allow only the people who are known to perform well in the office to telecommute, and insure they work on deadline-driven projects with measurable goals and milestones. As an alternative, insure that they have definitive SLA's to meet if their job is problem/solution-driven as opposed to project-driven. Also insure that they come in to work on a periodic basis, distance permitting. Be certain you have competent managers in place to insure, refine, and tweak as needed.
Obviously one of these is easier to do, save for that last bit. ;)
Re: (Score:3)
Never said I was special, or that I would simply rely on one thing to do it. However, it wouldn't take a whole lot of work to pass muster, yet still slack off.
Here's why:
In a company as ginormous as Yahoo, they would have to rely on automation and algorithm to check the metrics of any one employee. BI can only do so much. If you can simulate an average day's work (with some randomness thrown in), you don't pop up on the radar. Since you would be one of many, the logistics required to 'catch' every slacker w
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Informative)
W. Edwards Deming said it best: "You get what you measure." He didn't quite mean it in this context, but if employees know what metrics are being tracked to determine their performance, they will, of course, adjust their working behavior to pump up said metrics. The key is developing those metrics that will actually ensure work is getting done, which is never a simple matter of tracking data over a network, or a number of logins to a VPN.
Re: (Score:3)
"... it can be measured how much data is being sent to and recieved from the telecomuters."
Volume of data is not an indicator of productivity.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does being at home guarentee productivity? From the comments, a lot of people appear to believe being in the office is less productive than being at home, but at least with a VPN, it can be measured how much data is being sent to and recieved from the telecomuters. I doubt a former Google exec would make a decision like this lightly.
Data transfer volume is of practically ZERO utility in measuring productivity. As a developer, doing as much of my work as possible on my local drive is more productive than having it dragged down by network latency. Ditto, I'd say for anyone doing artistic or word-processing work.
All Data transfer volume metrics tell is how much activity I have on the net. It's no more useful than measuring the amount of time a cubicle is inhabited by a person as opposed to an inflatable Bozo doll.
I don't buy into the proposition that people can only trade ideas when they're physically proximate. I spent too many years hiding from other people in offices.
The only REAL metric of value is what the employee produces. If the employee is going to be productive, then location is relatively unimportant. If not, there are plenty of ways to appear productive in an office without doing anything useful at all. Some of them can consume massive amounts of network bandwidth, for that matter.
If the employee is not productive, either the employee is at fault or the employee's manager is at fault. In fact, ultimately, it's the manager's responsibility to either ensure that the employee is productive or to replace him/her with someone who is productive. No amount of geographical relocation, micro-monitoring, spyware, or other "silver bullets" can take the place of good management.
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Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, basically what TFA tells us is not that working from home was ever a problem at Yahoo, but that Yahoo has never ever had any way of measuring productivity, settings goals, or ensuring people are achieving their targets.
It sounds like it was basically a free for all, turn up, don't turn up, do what you want, no one will care or measure you!
It sounds like working from home is their scapegoat instead of refusing to admit to extremely incompetent management.
Yahoo has been haemorrhaging talent for years, removing perks from them like working from home is only going to make the problem worse, especially if they're still refusing to admit to fundamental problems in their company like the aforementioned lack of ability to set goals or check whether anyone is actually doing anything.
Now all that's going to happen is they'll lose more talent, productivity will probably go down as people are tired from long probably sometimes unnecessary commutes, costs will go up as they have to pay for more heating/lighting/office space and Yahoo will continue it's downward spiral
I actually had some sympathy for the move before I saw this story, now it's obvious the decision had no demonstrable merit. More fool them.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree that the root problem is management, but refuse to discount that remote work is also a problem at some companies. I work, and have worked at places where remote work usually meant slacking for the day. At other places, some people that work remote were useless and unproductive members of the team.
If everyone is at the office, peer pressure can help stir the shit off of the bottom. When people work where management is not good, the shit at the bottom does bring everyone else down, and even the best workers begin to smell bad and lose their motivation. When management fails to maintain motivation, peer pressure at least keeps the people with some motivation from giving up and becoming slackers. Remote access drastically reduces the impact of peer pressure on coworkers.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
Sort of... but you can always force the non-performers to come in daily, while the top performers are allowed to work remotely as a benefit/perk.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is probably phase 2 at yahoo.
But, getting there might well mean everyone comes into the office and then you hand out the perk.
I would expect telecommuting to return to yahoo, after the current problems are dealt with.
Re: (Score:3)
Let me guess, you're ex-military.
In the real world (and trust me, the military doesn't run like the real world - it's a far simpler, more constrained and occasionally far more real environment) everyone is different and any good manager of a team can manage a situation like that.
It's not favouritism to let Alice work from home but force Bob to stay in the office. It's bad management if that's all you do, but if you pull Bob into a quiet meeting room and suggest that he demonstrates productivity while workin
Re: (Score:3)
Sounds more like a Marissa Mayer knee jerk reaction and power play. Gees, now doesn't the story just keep changing. One minute it's because unproductive staff don't spend enough time in corridors and tea rooms chatting together and the next because Yahoo was losing too many telecommuting staff in the wilds of the burbs, never to be seen again.
One stupid unthinking memo and the PR and marketing staff will now be busy for months making up story after story about why it was down and of course inevitably how
Re: (Score:3)
Yahoo lacks talent because they fire everybody once every few years and hires kids straight out of college to replace them. That's a corporate culture thing.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly! Where were the managers when people stopped bothering to log in at all? Where were the weekly or even bi-weekly phone check-ins, or even the occasional email? (Hows the project going, are you as far along as you expected/hoped? What are the sticking points, what can I do to move things along,etc). For that matter, were these people even given objectives to accomplish? An active and engaged manager could not possibly fail to notice that many employees simply not bothering to at least log in once in a while.
I would go so far as to say that if management was slacking off that much, the employees might not have had much choice. If you aren't given an objective to accomplish and nobody even notices if you do something or not, what can you do? Eventually, logging in starts to feel stupid since nothing happens when you do. Eventually, you don't log in for a week or two and nobody calls to see if you're still breathing or not. So, what to do? Surely not go over the boss' head and suggest a layoff!
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You don't triage a patient who's bleeding out by stopping the heart just because you can't keep up with the blood loss.
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If the management just stopped managing the employees (as appears to be the case), then the employees weren't the ones abusing the system.
Re:I can slack off anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)
It really sounds like the employees, as some often do, simply took advantage of a good situation. I have, and have known people, who have had such opportunities. You keep yourself logged in. You stay next to a phone. If you leave, you make sure you can check problems from where you are. You check email frequently. It is a matter of discipline. it is hard. It is why some people make more than others. Those who don't need supervision do not incur the expense of supervision.
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But I can easily find you if I need to ask you something, instead of sending an e-mail I hope you read in a timely matter, or hoping you don't have your phone on silent.
I work from home. If you need to ask me something, IM me on skype. I'll at least start typing an answer within a minute - five if I was in the bathroom. And if I was in the bathroom at work you wouldn't have been able to find me at my desk anyway.
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One ex-pat Brit stuck a sign that said "Piker's Office" on the Men's bathroom door...
He got tired of a few managers that tended to follow people into the bathroom, and even talk over the stall door.
Not that it helped, they were too dumb to know what a Piker was.
best data: (Score:4, Insightful)
is work being done? if timelines are met, and dates don't slip, then the number of times i log into a vpn isn't a valid metric.
period.
Re:best data: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
period.
See? You aren't utilizing your connection enough. A semi-colon followed by incoherent rambling would have been more 'productive'.
good idea (Score:4, Insightful)
I can see telecommuting being ok when you've got an established company and clear objectives/projects, etc. When you're reorganizing, just starting, or trying to turn the fortunes of your company around I think you really have to work "together".
Re:good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
That had nothing to do with being in the office or not.
I bet most of the posters right now are in the office. People will slack off no matter what. Either you get your job done or you do not, how long it takes in the allotted time frame or what you do while doing it should not matter.
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I got the impression that it wasn't just grunts that were telecommuting. The cogs churn out code and that can be done from anywhere, frankly. China, India, Topeka. You're right, they don't matter. But when people that have influence and are decision makers are working from home, then you can have problems, especially when you're trying to turn the ship around.
Re: (Score:2)
"I bet most of the posters right now are in the office. People will slack off no matter what."
Only if you are a government employee (if in the U.S.) or live outside the U.S. time zones.
Re:good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I have several. Thanks for trying though.
I know each of them very well and they know me. If they get their jobs done by the deadline they can be jerking it at their desks for all I care.
I never said they were cogs, just that I expect them to get their work done in a timely fashion and if they can do that in two hours and spend the rest of the day on slashdot that is my fault not theirs. Even more likely it means everything is going well and their jobs are not the sort were hours are that predictable.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Where is this problem?
Why would I care if only took two hours? If the work was done who cares?
Sure they are not working as efficiently as they in theory could, but shooting for maximum efficiency all the time is only a way to burn out employees and not get them to work for you that way when the time comes.
I assign X tasks done by Y date. If X is done by Y I DO NOT give a single fuck if it they spend 99% of their day slacking off. No reason to punish a productive worker by assigning him more work than a slow
Re: (Score:3)
If they get the work done to meet our goals, yes. If the goals are not set properly that is my fault, not theirs.Assigning the correct amount of work is my job, not theirs.
Yahoo's culture was that things were not getting done at all.
Who is the better employee; Gallant who does all his work in an hour and then plays on slashdot all day or Goofus who works his full 8 hours 6 days a week and still does not have his work done before the deadline?
Re: (Score:3)
No, my view expects the boss to check up on his workers and if need be keep them on task. Which is exactly what I do.
I also recognize that no one works all the time like that mythical best employee. If you want that kind of devotion you have to give a little to get a little. That means allowing some slacking off.
You might not like it but I would rather hire Gallant every time. I need work done, not busy workers.
Re:good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
They either get the job done or they don't.
Fixating on anything else is just an excuse for micromanagement and petty megalomania.
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"When you're reorganizing, just starting, or trying to turn the fortunes of your company around I think you really have to work 'together'."
In my experience the only "together" available person-to-person is social. So meetings become opportunities to socialize and play status games (I called a bigger meeting than you so I have more status than you) rather than tools to accomplish business objectives.
And when your TECH business is dependent upon social interactions of your employees then your business is fai
have to disagree (Score:4, Insightful)
I've worked in teams where it was very important to get groups of people together somewhere and draw stuff on whiteboards with everyone else poking holes in the ideas or making suggestions for improvements. This is especially true when a project is just getting started and you're working out lots of details. Later on when something is mature you have a lot less scope for innovation (you're constrained by what is already there) so it's not as critical.
Yes, you can do this to some extent with technology, but it's not as good as getting a bunch of people together physically.
That said, I've been a full-time teleworker for 7 years. It works for me because I have a well-defined area of responsibility, I worked in person with almost everyone I deal with prior to moving away, and I can communicate effectively by voice/text (not everyone can do this effectively when not physically present).
Re:have to disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless the team was deeply dysfunctional to start with - I have yet to see an environment where getting people together in one room to interact wasn't vastly more productive than trying to do so virtually. Though the slashdot demographic is virulently misanthropic, they're off on the left hand tail of the bell curve in that respect.
I had a friend who successfully telecommuted for about five years... and then things started going to hell. The main cause was normal turnover at the office, slowly but surely he was no longer dealing with the people he'd dealt with before moving to another coast... but with complete strangers to who he was just a voice on the telephone. They didn't really think of him as fellow employee, just a cipher who coughed up blobs of code on demand. He's working in an office now, and actually much happier than he was telecommuting.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In my experience the only "together" available person-to-person is social. So meetings become opportunities to socialize and play status games (I called a bigger meeting than you so I have more status than you) rather than tools to accomplish business objectives.
It's not about social ranking in a good environment. It's about camaraderie, mentoring, and learning to work together. You can be the best quarter back in the world, but if you can't work with the center you will fail. If you can't get along with your team members, they will laugh as you get pummeled by defense. The team will lose much more than win.
Sounds like you are an egocentric person that believes that you are all that's needed for your company to survive. That works in very small shops, but does
Prevent flexibility instead of fixing root cause (Score:3, Insightful)
Inability to lead is what causes people to slack off. Employees will slack off same as when they were telecommuting. It would be much brighter to fix the root cause of the problem: lack of motivation. For that, it would take a different CEO. For now, Yahoo will big digging itself into the ground.
Not surprising (Score:4, Interesting)
Having managed a (partially) telecommuting workforce before, nothing is more frustrating than not being able to reach people or get answers in a timely manner.
It really depends on the combination of management, tasks, and individuals to make telecommuting work.
In my personal case, admittedly, we had insufficient procedure for measuring progress to ensure equal productivity through telecommuting, and people were quick to take advantage of that (yes, I am admitting management failure here) This was not in an IT-related field but a more traditional business field.
Re:Not surprising (Score:4, Insightful)
Having managed in office employees, how is that any different?
If people do not answer their cell phones or email, fire them. No different than them being unfindable in the office or not aswering desk phones.
Re: (Score:3)
It only your response had any of that... common sense.
At my desk I have my PC and my phone. My mobile is in my pocket. Now it doesn't matter where this desk is or where my boss is. It doesn't matter if it's a cubicle next to my bosses office. It doesn't matter if it's in a cubicle farm on the other side of the country. It doesn't matter if it's in my home office.
If I am goofing off or unavailable, it doesn't matter where my phone or PC.
how dumb can people be? (Score:5, Insightful)
if you're going to slack off, log on to VPN and slack off.
i work with people who work from home and offices in different states. everyone is always available and you know they are working because there are always emails flowing and tickets being done
Re:how dumb can people be? (Score:5, Insightful)
Done by the numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
If they did it by the numbers, and they had all this data, couldn't they see which telecommuters were effective, and shitcan all the other ones or force them into the office?
Re:Done by the numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect it's a simple case of psychology on that - come down hard at first, then ease up. It has the potential to rattle loose the weak links and have Yahoo emerge a leaner, stronger company because of it. The people that stay will be more or less self-selected, will feel a bond of having endured a common hardship - and I think that can translate into the kind of trust needed to bring back flexible working policies. The more I've thought about it, the more I think this move will, in the long run, turn out well for Yahoo.
Re:Done by the numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
It shall be leaner of talent than it will of slackers.
Re: (Score:3)
Doubtful, but the slackers that will be fired are the ones who think of themselves as the talent.
Exactly: punish the slackers (Score:3)
Forgotten employees? (Score:5, Interesting)
"A lot of people hid. There were all these employees [working remotely] and nobody knew they were still at Yahoo."
It's amazing that a company can have people on the payroll, and the managers forget about them..
Re:Forgotten employees? (Score:5, Funny)
Once nobody tries to take their red stapler all should be well.
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It's "Just Typical" that someone as smart as Ms. Mayer would see this as an indictment of telecommuting and not see it as what it is: A failure of management.
This is all about helping poor managers keep their jobs.
"We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!" -- Blazing Saddles
Re: (Score:2)
He had to pay it back, though.
Ironically (maybe unsurprisingly), the "former company" was an audit and accounting firm....
I had the lady on the phone - she was almost flabbergasted ;-)
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VPN not a requirement for doing useful work (Score:3)
Sure you need to be on the VPN to see your e-mail (that notorious destroyer of productivity), but there's a lot of stuff you can be doing offline (or at least off the VPN) that is still productive work. For example, if I'm writing code, it's not always the case that I have to be on the company network to do it.
Also, my VPN software seems to be the only common element in the rare blue-screen crashes I get on my work laptop - so it's usually a lot less frustrating to leave it off.
In fact, if I am goofing off, I'm much more likely to log into the VPN and open my e-mail so that others can see that I'm "online" and working. I like to sit my laptop next to my gaming desktop while I do this!
I'm on the VPN almost always (Score:2)
I'm a full-time teleworker...I just leave the VPN software running all the time.
Email, IRC, instant message....sure, these are distractions but they are also ways for people to contact me quickly. If you have a reputation for being responsive, people are less likely to assume you're slacking off.
Also, in my case the build farm, much of the codebase (the part that isn't in git), the test labs, etc. are all only accessible via the VPN.
Data merely shows incompetence of managers (Score:3, Interesting)
People can lack interest or motivation and slack off from work wherever they happen to be, at home or in the office.
All this data seems to show is that managers are poor at managing people who are not physically in the office. That I can well believe, but a more insightful solution than banning remote work is to improve managers and the management systems that they employ.
There is a huge amount of time wasted in the social atmosphere of the office, so remote working doesn't have a monopoly on time wasting. But of course poor managers will never blame themselves.
Perhaps you are right? (Score:2)
Still, the logic that concludes that those who put the least effort into getting work are also those who will put the least effort into their work is not totally unsound. Still there may be middle ground here, such as home office monitoring? I don't know, but it does seem that a company is so laid back as to allow it's employees to work from home in their pajamas is inviting its competitors who demand more professionalism to step in and eat it for lunch. Middle managers are usually just enforcers of overall
No VPN doesn't mean no work (Score:2)
Unless employees needed to use the VPN to use communication resources like email, IM, etc; just because they didn't connect to VPN doesn't mean they weren't doing work. If VPN is the only metric that they have to judge worker productivity, it's the managers that should have been fired.
When I work from home, I often don't connect to the VPN at all - I can use email and IM without VPN so unless I need to send/receive data on a corporate fileserver or remote into my work desktop computer, there's no reason to
depends what they're doing... (Score:2)
In my case the build farm, much of the codebase (the part that isn't in git), the test labs, etc. are all only accessible via the VPN.
I can write code without the VPN, but I can't submit it or test it properly.
It's a meaningless metric (Score:2, Interesting)
I work with a few ex Yahoo employees and they've almost all commented on this. The numbers being used are bad. A distributed revision control system (like Git) needs no network to do anything but merge. Virtualized hardware let's you test and deploy most things locally. Only poorly run companies (at least in the private sector) require you to be on VPN for email. So, what good is this metric? Why do I need a VPN, most of the time?
Also, apparently Yahoo has a tunneling config that most engineers have been u
Mixed Results (Score:2)
Use IM (XMPP) (Score:3)
We require remotes to have an XMPP client active when working away from HQ. Really easy to see when they are available / not available. The policy says Auto-away must be enabled and if you're going to be away for more the 15 mins, you need to leave a message stating when you'll be back. It's easy to contact people to ask quick questions so there isn't such a problem with "Joe wasn't in so we couldn't have the meeting".
The Possibility that People Are Not Working at Wrk (Score:3)
This seems to ignore the possibility that people aren't always working while at their employer's premises. I've seen that happen as I think most people have. Just because someone is in their office doesn't mean that they're not playing solitaire. It always comes down to getting your work done or not. If people can get the same work done but have more relaxation time, what's the problem? If you force them to sit at their desk, they'll surf the internet. If you're really aggressive they'll just start making up plausible-deniability busy work.
VPN logs as a measurement of productivity? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, I don't think so. Since Yahoo has "webmail", just like every other modern company, you can converse with coworkers and team members without ever needing VPN. You can write your code offline, and merge commits later, or even have a local SVN and push it upstream later.
The sad fact is that while the CEO is supposed to be creating strategy for the company to achieve, she's not done that. She's going after people who have a flexible schedule. Does this fix the fact that Yahoo has no future roadmap for well.... anything? No. It just makes good engineers who have kids start looking elsewhere, lazy employees move the geography of where they slack. It doesn't fix management of those employees, it doesn't change the way productivity is measured, and it doesn't set them any goals to achieve.
In the time Mayer has been CEO, Yahoo has announced a total of zero noteworthy items. The fact that this is the biggest news out of Yahoo is more telling to their poor business model than anything else, and shows that Mayer was better suited to being an engineer than a CEO responsible for driving the business of a technology firm.
Some employees... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Despite all the outrage and flak she's getting from those outside the company for the move, some ex-employees are praising the decision, citing abuse, slacking off, and general 'unavailability' of folks working from home.'
Yeah, and that is an issue with MANAGEMENT, not the underlings. If my boss doesnt know what I am doing, that I am on task, it is THEIR failure, not mine.
Not a good metric (Score:4, Insightful)
Part of the benefit to working from home is the lack of interruptions and the ability to just get your head down and do your work. If you're complaining that they "aren't checking in enough" or "unavailable", you're basically complaining that they are using working from home as effectively as they can.
Now if you have a real productivity metric that shows they are less productive, then fair enough. But half of the reason working from home is a benefit is to get away from pointless unwork interruptions like that. Demanding that they check in with their managers is basically saying "we don't believe you are working, stop everything you are doing every so often to reassure us that you are working", and I'm not surprised that this renders these people less productive.
Oh goodie, metrics (Score:5, Insightful)
At my work, the people who do support got a new management structure. Their management is big on metrics. Sadly, their metric is "how many tickets did you close."
Unsurprisingly, service levels have gone to total shit. The people who actually solve hard problems take more time than the ones who bounce tickets to other people and only handle easy ones, and thus don't look good to the morons in charge. What used to take minutes now takes hours, but apparently it's "more efficient."
I see a lot of the same type of faulty reasoning here. Slacking off happens at work all the time, and people "being unavailable" is just code for "I can't walk over and talk about my dog for 45 minutes". I doubt their previous VPN logs really say a lot that's useful, but if there were actual abusers they should have been dealt with. Blanket bans don't tend to work.
It's particularly weird in Yahoo's case since it's already not exactly a place that top tier talent wants to go, and this isn't going to help them recruit.
It's a Mgmt Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
One place, when I was on team A 100% on-site, I interacted with my manager very minimally. We had little direction, lots of bureaucracy, and a slow pace of accomplishing anything. I moved to another team B, 100% remote, interacted with my manager a lot, we had lots of planning, direction, and follow-up, and got stuff DONE.
I've seen it time and again: the overwhelming majority of people need leadership. What kind of leadership is specific to the individual; good mgmt can tailor their style to individual needs. Rare - much rarer than most people think - is someone who needs no leadership.
What happens is that remote teams can exacerbate management failings. People slack off; some people work in chunks (as I do - I will goof off for a couple of hours and then pound out a day's work), some people work slow and steady. If you're results-oriented, you can measure this. If you manage people correctly, it can be done remote, on-site, or blended.
Managing remote teams requires a different set of skills. Most places make the mistake of assuming a remote worker is just like an on-site worker, to be treated the same. They're not. It's not better or worse, just different.
As a once-telecommuter... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yet again, TFA trumps Slashdot speculation (Score:4, Insightful)
Likewise, we're hearing from people close to Yahoo executives and employees that she made the right decision banning work from home.
"The employees at Yahoo are thrilled," says one source close to the company.
"There isn't massive uprising. The truth is, they've all been pissed off that people haven't been working."
If it works for the employees, then our opinions here don't mean much in the debate.
It's the People (Score:3)
He billed 40 hours "General" time from home one week.
The week of Hurricane Sandy.
When his house didn't have power for 10 days.
If he was in the office, he'd be working on his personal e-commerce websites or looking for apps for his phone.
Yes, Mayer did it so she can fire people and cut costs. Yes, VPN is a crappy metric to use although I'm sure that isn't the only metric she used. Yes, telecommuting works for a lot of people and can be a huge cost saver for companies.
But please, let's spare me the "telecommuting is the Holy Grail" for all employees and for all businesses. Fact is every company has terrible employees and they will game the system no matter where they are.
I am sick to death as fuck (Score:3)
Of hearing these Gartner inspired dipshits tell me their business is 'collaborative'. As opposed to what? Funeral director? Jesus Christ this is a gaggle of fools who've finally guzzled their own marketing talk and now they identify strenuously with the Dilbert-speak of it all.
Tell you what Little Miss Google who "has it all! work!, family!, fulfillment! free time!" off the back of your husband, nanny, live in staff, car service, private schools and such. Fuck you and the paradigm you chartered a plane to fly in on. Seriously. Fuck you. You want me to commute 2 hrs a day each way to come work at your veal pen - send a car and a driver to take me there both ways so I make use of that 4 hrs a day. Or, give me a 100% raise so that I can afford to live where the blogerati hobnob.
Re:Motivation (Score:5, Insightful)
For many roles hours in office/on VPN is a completely worthless metric.
It is not a worthless metric for all roles. Phone/Net tech support for example. If they are not logged in, they are not working. Even there it's an easily gamed metric.
Remote work creates new challenges. Perhaps Yahoos management hasn't been up to it.
Re:Motivation (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if the metric they were using would completely miss people that are constantly logged onto the VPN. What log were they looking at exactly? If I am logged in for more than 30 days at a time, would they think I never did any work?
Seems like a flawed and rather lazy approach to actually checking up on the actual work output of your employees.
Re: (Score:3)
When I was a kid the local amusement park installed one of the first computerized time clock systems.
Inside of a year night maintenance employees were sleeping under the bridges all day, others bought themselves season passes so they could stay on the clock for days, then come in as guests to actually work a shift and clock out.
Many managers really are so dumb they would drown if they were caught outside in the rain. They look up with their mouths open when the rain hits the tops of their heads.
Re:Motivation (Score:4, Funny)
"Inside of a year night maintenance employees were sleeping under the bridges all day,"
And thus, the troll was born.
Re:Motivation (Score:4, Interesting)
It is not a worthless metric for all roles. Phone/Net tech support for example. If they are not logged in, they are not working. Even there it's an easily gamed metric.
Perhaps Mayer checked those users who need corporate network to do their job then?
To me, this sounds like military-style management.
You are supposed to work as a team. If one of you goofs around instead doing their task, everyone suffers.
It's classic team-bonding strategy, and I don't see anything wrong with the approach.
She can prove wrongdoings happened but instead pointing fingers everyone gets punished. Now the group can work out itself who deserves to get soap-sock treatment.
Re:Motivation (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time I hear people complaint about lazy employees, I blame their managers. I mean, what are managers for? I don't expect them to micromanage what everyone is doing all the time, but their role is to receive the work, distribute it and check that it's delivered on time and quality.
If there are slackers, I can't believe their managers don't know about it. Unless they're also slackers, or don't give a shit. But then the company has far worse problems to attend than telecommuting.
Re: (Score:2)
not everyone codes at home
sales, pre-sales tech support, tech support, IT and other jobs can work from home as well
with home and cell phone plans being sold with unlimited minutes/calling it makes it easier and cheaper
Re: (Score:2)