It's 2013, and Windows Activation Is Still Frustrating 435
Deathspawner writes "There's little that's more frustrating than being a legal customer and getting screwed over by the company you're supporting. If there's a perfect example of this, it's with Microsoft's OS and its millions of customers that have had to ring its tech support lines for activation help. Recently, a Techgage writer got bit by an issue with Windows 8 — caused by Microsoft itself — and wasn't even able to call to fix it. Microsoft has two problems to solve here: it needs online chat support (like most large companies in 2013) and it definitely needs an activation system that doesn't make things difficult for its legal customers on a too-regular basis."
Linux on the Desktop (Score:5, Funny)
This is probably finally the year for it.
Now, let me go off and spend the next two hours installing the java plugin for Firefox on my Ubuntu box.
Re:Linux on the Desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux on the Desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Java or metro?
Because if its java you are at the best unknowledgable. Users generally don't have a clue that java is what they use to communicate with their office over a remote access appliance. However they do know that they took their computer to "some guy" and now they can't connect to their work network anymore and I have to clean up the mess you made.
Please only fix what is actually broken on a customers machine and don't put your own personal biases of what is "necessary" software into the equation. You obviously don't know what users do, and even THEY do not even know what they do or need.
You should at least know THAT!
Re:Linux on the Desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a customer with 3 virus scanners installed and running at once, causing major slowdowns and strangeness. I could not convince him that was a bad idea. But he insisted to leave them installed. So I did. If they say no - it's no. I never do anything without discussing it with the customer first..
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In most distros it's "open GUI package manager, type password, search for 'java', pick the one that says 'java plug-in', hit 'apply.' -- using the commandline hasn't been required in at least a few years... That GUI method is no more difficult to learn than the method for installing it on Windows or OS X, and for some users like my mother, it's a lot easier as it means they don't need to know where to download the item from, which file to get, where it should be saved on the computer, remember where they d
Re:Linux on the Desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
2003 was the year of Linux on the Desktop for me. Has been ever since too.
Thank me later. (Score:4, Informative)
Install the icedtea-7-plugin package using any installation method. more detailed instructions here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java [ubuntu.com].
To be fair installing the the whole of Ubuntu is now a few basic dialog boxes and leave for 20 minutes
I know your trolling but Linux Desktop market share has been steadily rising for sometime, and that is without the onslaught of Chrome (and soon Android Boxies).
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Chrome OS (Score:3)
Chrome, the browser, is going to help increase linux on the desktop?
Interesting.
Chrome is also the name of an OS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_OS [wikipedia.org] you can see the machines here http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/ [google.com] on googles site. The range from incredible cheap machines to the incredibly beautiful Pixel. Lin
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Yes, this right here folks is why Linux has never and likely will never take off on the desktop. From usenet to forums to Slashdot, the typical response to "I can't get this distro to do what I need it to" is usually "fuck you, you hopeless moron, die in a fire".
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You could has just set a password for the root user.
Your ignorance is not someone else's fault.
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What the hell is wrong with you? The Java plugin is the last thing you'd want to install anywhere...
Its like trying to find a way to run visual basic scripts on Linux.
Compare it to Android updates (Score:2)
In comparison to updating android on your carrier's cell phone, windows updates are a snap! Moreover windows updates even exist whereas once you buy a low-brand tablet or get a carrier locked phone no update may ever even get made for your device.
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Oh come on.. they have more developers than I have. Can't I have the dying BSD desktop project this year?
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Re:Linux on the Desktop (Score:5, Funny)
It got better.
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Why?
As a primarily Java developer... I ask the same question.
Why?
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Linux is just a kernel.
Puppet is easy to use for that, so is keeping bins on NFS, there are lots of other ways to skin this cat. Microsoft did not invent nor perfect this.
Dreamspark etc. (Score:3)
Re:Dreamspark etc. (Score:5, Informative)
As a university student, my uni grants access to MS products like Windows, Visual Studio etc. It really was a matter of entering a serial and that was all that had to be done. I take it off the shelf windows activates more obtusely?
If memory serves, Windows phones home some data about the platform it finds itself on when it is activated(I don't know if it is particularly identifiable, or just a hash of whatever seems likely to be system specific, or somewhere in between), and some versions can be very unhappy if they come to the conclusion that they've previously been activated on different hardware. Enough time on the phone will get you a nice guy in India who will probably be able to fix it for you; but it definitely can happen.
Re:Dreamspark etc. (Score:4, Insightful)
I've never had to talk to a guy in India, I've always gotten an automated phone system. You read the key, it processes for a second then gives you a long-ass number to put in. It's a nuisance but less horrible than issues we've had with Adobe software activation.
Re:Dreamspark etc. (Score:5, Funny)
Let's not even talk about Adobe. Everything about their customer interaction process, whether it be downloads, activations, even getting them to take your damn money, appears to be cobbled together from a mixture of coldfusion from the mid 90's and a bitter, gnawing, hatred of all that exists, older than the primordial Void itself. All wrapped up in a ghastly AIR UI, naturally.
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Boot Ubuntu Studio (if you're not already savvy) and give Darktable a try.
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I've had to do that several times. 4 out of 5 times, the automated system refers me to the nice Indian man for a short Q&A session before giving me the activation key.
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Dude, serves you right for installing a new video card.
What business does someone have opening the case? It should violate DMCA to use a non OEM hard drive.
Re:Dreamspark etc. (Score:5, Informative)
Retail Windows OS can be re-installed up to three times before you need to manually activate the product.
As I understand it, the activation process creates a system profile "hash", and ties it to the product key. When your system changes in a significant way (MB, CPU or NIC) it can trigger a re-activation.
People that rebuiild their systems frequently are familiar with this problem.
Re:Dreamspark etc. (Score:4, Insightful)
Its obtuse only if you have paid for it. For the pirates, the activation is included in the ISO
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Its obtuse only if you have paid for it. For the pirates, the activation is included in the ISO
...along with a root kit.
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I for one, have no way of ensuring i get a release from a proper group.
For someone who's posting on /. and doesn't know what hashing is for, well I guess I should just pity you.
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As a university student, my uni grants access to MS products like Windows, Visual Studio etc. It really was a matter of entering a serial and that was all that had to be done. I take it off the shelf windows activates more obtusely?
Basically, yes. For Enterprise/Volume/Educational institution licences, there is a fairly basic serial number activation process to allow the mass-rollout of desktops from a central publishing server like SCCM. That means your IT department will not mutiny over having activation problems on 15% of your workstations after rolling out a new installation to 10,000 desks.
For the one-off retail items, either in terms of OEM or boxed product, the activation hassles lie with the end user (i.e. one individual... no
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I remember they revoked my W7 serial one day out of the blue.
Had been using it for like two years with no prob, then one day it tells me I need to activate it. Kinda odd seeing as I bought it direct from MS via their online store. After a phone call they issued me a new serial.
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A keygen probably found it and it had started activating in large numbers. It happens.
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It shouldn't use activation at all. (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no benefit WHATSOEVER for the customer, and it's not even made the product cheaper. All it's managed to do is piss of just about everyone, probably including the poor bastards in tech support in Microsoft.
Re:It shouldn't use activation at all. (Score:4, Interesting)
There's no benefit WHATSOEVER for the customer, and it's not even made the product cheaper. All it's managed to do is piss of just about everyone, probably including the poor bastards in tech support in Microsoft.
It certainly doesn't do the customer any good(and it's extra annoying on the IT side: "C'mon Microsoft, we practically have to use a truck line to transport all the money we send you every year, we keep our licensing data squeaky clean, and we still have to dick around with activation every time we push a system image to a thousand workstations? Fuck you."); but I assume that MS didn't like the good old days when everybody who ran windows and gave a damn had a nice copy of Win2k Enterprise, VLK, sometimes with 'do not make illegal copies of this disk' scrawled in sharpie on the illegal disk copy for amusement's sake....
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I don't know, I bought a legal OEM version of windows 8 Home Pro for under a hundred. That's cheaper than I could have found for windows 98 ( which was the last version I bought before activation). I think I got windows XP PRO OEM for just over a hundred from a shady website.
I think the price decrease ( if there has been one) is more of a sign of increased competition from Macs ( and linux to a certain extent), than the activation reducing piracy.
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Then you bought an upgrade. If you try to install on a clean drive, you're going to fail activation later on.
(There is a registry tweak you can do to trick it into thinking there was a prior version of windows on the disk, during install time)
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No. The OEM version is $100. It just happens to be roughly the same price as the retail upgrade version. This is why I never buy the upgrade version.
Example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550 [newegg.com]
What do you mean, frustrating? (Score:5, Funny)
No Good Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows Upgrade costs $295 (Score:5, Informative)
Ironically Activation on Microsoft platform pushed me to Linux
Windows 8 is not available to me from Microsoft only an upgrade I cannot use. From Microsoft http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_O_WOL_Hero_ShopHP_FPP_Null [microsoft.com] the prices are $155 for a Windows 8 Upgrade or $295 for Windows 8 Pro. I could not find a version of retail Windows 8 anywhere. What is true for you is not true for me.
Re:Windows Upgrade costs $295 (Score:4, Informative)
You're looking for something that doesn't exist because it's no longer needed.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-WN7-00403-English-Version/dp/B009HI2W66/ref=sr_1_2?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1367939128&sr=1-2&keywords=windows+8 [amazon.co.uk]
OEM is the new retail. MS unified the TOS; Win8 OEM's terms are essentially identical to Win7 retail's terms, including the ability to resell it.
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The page you linked to had a very helpful section for someone in your situation:
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I tried to get MS to take my money. I had 4 machines with XP or Vista on them. But for some reason it wouldn't let me download a copy of Windows 8 64 bit to a machine I had running XP. Told me I had to buy a disk. Oh well. Still running XP.
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When it was released, one of the big selling points were that it was super cheap, $40 for the upgrade.
Just ditch the activation. (Score:5, Interesting)
It doesn't do a thing to stop pirates anyway, so what's the point of it?
Re:Just ditch the activation. (Score:5, Funny)
It doesn't do a thing to stop pirates anyway, so what's the point of it?
Whatever do you mean? Windows 8 has been Microsoft's most effective anti-piracy scheme ever. Not that they meant it to be, but still...
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Re:its 2013 (Score:5, Insightful)
seriously, its your own damn fault.
Yeah - I guess it's my fault for needing Photoshop, Solidworks, AutoCAD, Excel, Word, etc. to share files with my customers.
Re:Which version of Word? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who gives a shit about Word? How about everything else he spoke about. Do you not understand the bigger picture here? People run businesses, not Half Life festivals
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Its 2013 and there is still over 50 different flavours of BSD/Linux.. Each with its own complications.. No wonder we still aren't at the year of Linux.
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It's a disjointed mess (Linux) that never "just works". There's always issues with hardware compatibility or issues that honestly I don't get or see as someone who maintains thousands of desktops running Windows.
This is my own experience though and this is Apples to Oranges I understand in terms of the hardware side. But the co
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How about graphics cards [geek.com].
It's 2013, why are you still using Windows ? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's 2013, and Windows Activation Is Still Frustrating
It's 2013, why are you still using Windows ?
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Sure, there are plenty of applications that only run on Windows. If you feel bound by applications, that is. There are much less tasks you can do on Windows but can't do on other platforms. Conversely, on the fast-growing mobile computing front, from their popularities and rich application catalogs, it seems that iOS/Android devices have plenty of capabilities that no Windows device can offer in a compelling way.
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Not everything works perfect in Linux. I use Fedora as a host with Windows in a vm. Why? Because nothing is worse than mangling people's performance reviews because HR uses documents in Office format that get mangled by LibreOffice. Or having to sit on a jump box all day to manage MS servers (AD, Exchange, MS SQL, etc.). Writing Powershell scripts is less productive...as is those bad internal apps that require IE (yes, they still exist in the corporate world). Being Linux-only is a nice goal...but is not fe
Already has the best antipiracy (Score:2, Insightful)
They don't need any other antipiracy measures. With Windows 8, they have created the best anti-piracy every; they created software nobody wants.
If you think that's bad (Score:2)
Proprietary crap (Score:2)
Everything abut Microsoft is frustrating. Constant popupups, talking nagging paper-clips, can only log in one user account at a time unless you pay out the nose, a window8 GUI trying to shove apps down out throats even if we're a desktop, all versions of word are more incomparable with each other than open office is, how they try to force me into bing, how they try to obsolete older versions like XP - even though it works perfectly fine on older PC's, even worse, how they try to obsolete older versions of
s/Activation// (Score:5, Funny)
Bought a brandnew HP laptop for my gf. Windows 8 is a pain to use without touch screen. I don't dare to move the mouse near any corner of the screen again ...
not for me (Score:2)
I've never had a problem with the activation. I just run this DAZ script and viola! Activated! Who's having trouble? MS support should just mail people the 5kb file and be done with it.
what about his media center key? (Score:2)
since that was a limited-time offer... does that key still work? or is it now gone forever since his 'windows 8 with media center' took a dump?
No such thing (Score:2)
it definitely needs an activation system that doesn't make things difficult for its legal customers on a too-regular basis.
There's no such thing. You're not going to come up with a system that inhibits piracy but also doesn't create more work and effort for legitimate customers. Computers are not smart enough to judge whether what you're doing is "fair".
Don't get me started on their activation... (Score:2)
These PC's are fine, I just bought this program, activate it!!! So they pass you to another department that has you on hold for a minimum of one hour (not an exaggeration) which also gives you the ability to leave a message if you get tired of waiting. If you leave a message, they'll call you back in a
have your tried RHEL activation? (Score:3)
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Where's Google's chat support? I'm still looking for it.
And no a message board of users is not "chat support"
I do pretty much all my HP warranty/service calls via online chat. Much easier than trying to deal with accents and delays. Ditto for a lot of other providers.
I don't know about google... i've never needed their support on anything
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Where's your receipt or invoice for what you purchased from Google? That's the difference. If you pay for one of their products, you get pretty decent support.
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That is the similarity.
There, fixed that for you. Or do you get a receipt from Microsoft when you buy a PC from the shop around the corner?. No home user does any business with Microsoft, but Microsoft likes to say so whenever that is convenient for them. And deny it when it is not convenient (like, if you refuse the license and want your money back).
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Wrong. They need *community support* like so many Linux distros have. I have never had better help from the community than I ever, ever got through paid support.
This will never happen though! These people bought, along with their licensed "rentals" of Windows, a sense of indignation that stops them from entering and contributing to a community support structure. It requires a certain level of humbleness.
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Ok, explain to my grandmother how to get her beloved accept-no-substitutes ten year old greeting card software to work on OS X.
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I've been stockpiling parts so I should be able to keep it running for at least 20 more years. (B.t.w. I have 33 year old arcade machines that are still running fine)
Sometimes there's no reason to upgrade.
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Enable Boot Camp. Freaking newbies.
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Duel booting? I guess that's one way of looking at it.
"I don't think that word means what you think it means" actually fits here....
Re:Dump Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
Open Source is more like a house full of IKEA furniture. You need some basic skills and sometimes a bit of improvising to get what you want, but the end result is pretty useable and very versatile, even if some of the edges are still a little rough.
Windows is a furnished apartment. It looks better and the stuff that you need is all there and works great. You need absolutely no skills because the landlord will take care of it, but you can't do a lot of renovations. Fortunately, your landlord has gone around to all the furniture stores in town and made sure that most furniture you can buy will fit in your apartment.
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Windows 7 downloads drivers for all of my hardware, excepting only the really old stuff, the really new stuff and the really oddball stuff I order on eBay from Hong Kong. The only real issue I've had is with Dell and HP boxes, but I have a feeling that's more about Dell/HP not releasing the drivers to MS.
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Yep, here too. And every time I've tried using Windows Update for my hardware drivers it breaks my PC.
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Personally I am still waiting for the day when Windows Update will be able to recognize drivers and install & update them.
Huh? It is able to do that just fine. Another thing is whether they have the most cutting-edge driver available. As part of their quality assurance I think they tend to be a bit on the conservative side.
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You forgot 'don't install media centre add on as it invalidates your key without warning you this will happen' which, if you'd read the article, you'd know.
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There are very few reasons why a key won't work the first time and they all tie back to the user (this author) being a moron. First, use the correct disc. Second, use the correct CD key for the disc. Third, don't activate until all the devices are installed instead of marked as "unknown device." Fourth, actually activate Windows in the stated time period instead of ignoring it. Fifth, don't activate it more than once per year. And if all else fails just activate it via the Microsoft robot on the phone. It takes approx 4 mins 32 seconds to do. I have never, ever had to talk to a rep in India ever in 10 years in business building and refurbishing computers. So who was he even talking to on the phone and why? Probably a license vs disc-used discrepancy. Definitely, without a doubt, USER ERROR!
Phrased another way, "We've provided you with a wide variety of possible ways to screw up installation and activation, many of which we could even catch for you and prevent, but choose not to. It's just so much more fun to be able to smile smugly at moron users, who even cares if we make any money?"
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My wife ran into an issue with a key for another company years ago for an expansion for a game. Fresh from the store it said it was invalid because it had already been used. Returned it for another copy, same thing, returned for refund and bought it online from the company instead. Definitely not reasonable to consider cracked key gen systems to be user error. I have no idea if that's what is going on here, but at least half of the conditions you listed aren't reasonable user error either. Unless you mean u
Re:who was he even talking to? (Score:4, Informative)
Third, don't activate until all the devices are installed instead of marked as "unknown device
And why should this be the user's fault? The hardware doesn't change it's PCI/USB vendor or device ID's after drivers are installed. You can't seriously be telling me that Microsoft's fingerprint of your hardware is based on the drivers and not the hardware. And if you are telling me that, then it's not the author being a moron - it's Microsoft being stupid.
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Ditto. It will save your sanity too!
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Get back to me when all the MS specific software is ported to linux.
Re: There's little that's more frustrating... (Score:2, Offtopic)
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Re:I have an idea (Score:5, Informative)
Don't activate THEN install 10 device drivers.
You blame the user for that and not Microsoft? The hardware has the same PCI/USB vendor and device ID's as before the drivers were installed. Those are detected just fine without drivers. If this really does cause problems, then the real problem is Microsoft basing their hardware configuration hash on anything relating to software and not hardware.
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My aunt had the same issue with Win7. So, I just "Upgraded" my Aunt's laptop to Windows8: Kubuntu. I installed Linux, replaced the splash screen and desktop image with a Windows8 logo, and every thing is fine. She even gets along great in conversations between other clueless users like her about how different her Windows8 is from Windows7... Her opinion on adopting "Win8" is: "Oh, sure, it's a bit different, but it's not THAT different, and you get used to it; I don't see what the big deal is, some p