TSA Decides Against Allowing Small Knives On Aircraft 298
New submitter lemur3 writes "After multiple months of discussing possible changes to the prohibited items list, the Transportation Security Administration in the United States has determined that it is best to go ahead without any changes to the list of items passengers may have in their carry-on baggage when traveling by air. Under the proposed change (discussed previously on Slashdot) pocket knives and other items, such as hockey sticks and ski poles, would have been allowed."
There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
While i think the TSA sucks bozack.. you'd think after the 2nd or 3rd time you'd learn how to avoid losing things to them
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I was about to say the same thing... I've traveled many times since 9/11, and have lost precisely nothing to the TSA. I put my pocketknife and lighter in my checked baggage the night before, and carry a spare lighter I can toss once I get to the airport. (I've got a couple of almost empty disposables stashed for just that purpose.) I've never had a problem finding a light at my destination.
The problem isn't the TSA, the problem is the grandparent is an idiot who won't take responsibility for his own act
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem isn't the TSA
Just because you've had different experiences doesn't mean the problem isn't the TSA.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Interesting)
"I was about to say the same thing... I've traveled many times since 9/11, and have lost precisely nothing to the TSA."
Wish I could say the same. I have not flown very often in recent years, but the last time I did, a rare and expensive (and perfectly legal) laser was missing from my luggage when I picked it up at my destination. I have little doubt it was stolen by the TSA baggage inspectors. Even if they (wrongly) thought it was illegal, they are required to inform you when they confiscate something. So it wasn't that... it was simply stolen.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Interesting)
Could also have been the airline baggage handlers.
The best way to "handle" this theft problem is to have windows allowing passengers to see their luggage being searched and see it being handled by the baggage handlers. There is no reason why it needs to be done privately, unless someone is up to no good.
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You should mail yourself stuff. UPS can even make custom boxes and packaging for you to use. The money you spend mailing it to yourself is money that you save when you don't have to buy a replacement for it.
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Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Informative)
easy way to ensure your luggage does not get opened by the TSA (in transit)
PROPERLY CHECK A FIREARM
once they check it at the airport it is considered a SEALED PACKAGE and can not legally be opened by anyone without you present.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Interesting)
A starter pistol is great for this. The TSA treats it like a real firearm, but many cities and states that have strict firearm laws don't consider them firearms (especially if you don't bring the caps for it).
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No the problem can at times be the TSA. Let me illustrate...
Look at the jolt cola can referenced by this link: http://bevwire.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/jolt-cola-soon-to-be-discontinued/ [wordpress.com]
I was at SD West (last one btw), and they were giving out the jolt cola awards, and cans. I managed to get a can, put it into my backpack with my notebook. The next morning, too early (as I was flying to Europe) I forgot the can was in there. So off I go into the search, and they asked "what's this?" I said its cola, and they
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem isn't the TSA
The problem isn't the TSA either way. The TSA realizes that the restrictions on small knives and tools are silly and a waste of resources. They wanted to make the change. But they got too much push back from politicians and "think of the children" citizens. So they caved in.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
The TSA only exists because of Low IQ citizens and Politicians. the TSA is not needed at all and is a huge waste of money.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Insightful)
In this case, the TSA was responding to flight attendants who were reportedly up in arms about people being able to carry swiss army knives on planes again.
So put blame where it is due - the TSA was trying to do the right thing here, but got shouted down by the masses.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the stupidest thing I've read on /. today. Of course the TSA is the problem. Taking peoples pocket knives is a pointless knee-jerk reaction.
That's a pretty big problem too, but then no one said there was only one problem.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the stupidest thing I've read on /. today. Of course the TSA is the problem. Taking peoples pocket knives is a pointless knee-jerk reaction.
Given all the excesses of the TSA, is not being allowed a small knife onto a plane really your biggest concern?
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Interesting)
Every rights violation is a concern.
Not that I disagree, but shouldn't you be focusing on the bigger issue?
I mean getting the TSA to "allow" pocket knives whilst they continue their other abuses with reckless abandon seems to be a pyrrhic victory at best.
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Well you know your real mistake. You only need to catch the right flight once and from their on in avoid the TSA for the rest of your life, emmigrate. It seems the US is going out of it's to drive it's own citizens out of their country, seriously take the hint, likely you'll be better off ;).
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Interesting)
I always carry a Leatherman Micra. I lost one once, and managed to buy a whole bag of them from those confiscated from an airport. At least one (given to someone) has returned to where it came from.
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They should just charge a $5 fee and mail it to you if you don't want it destroyed.
It is kind of silly, though. Post 911, nobody can take over a plane with a few knives. The only reason to not allow them is that they can result in more injuries on a plane, but that seems so unlikely as to not be terribly persuasive.
I once walked into a secure federal building with a knife by accident; the guards thought about it and then didn't care. Which is really the right result.
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They should just charge a $5 fee and mail it to you if you don't want it destroyed.
It is kind of silly, though. Post 911, nobody can take over a plane with a few knives. The only reason to not allow them is that they can result in more injuries on a plane, but that seems so unlikely as to not be terribly persuasive.
I once walked into a secure federal building with a knife by accident; the guards thought about it and then didn't care. Which is really the right result.
I've seen self-service mail kiosks in some airports where you can mail your prohibited items to yourself. You still would have to get back out of the security line to get back to the Kiosk, but if you have something valuable it's probably worth it. So far I've only lost 99 cent nail clippers but I think those are allowed now.
http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/04/airport-kiosks-let-travelers-mail-off-limits-items/ [engadget.com]
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I agree. But by that logic we don't need the TSA either so...
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I agree. But by that logic we don't need the TSA either so...
I don't follow that logic.
Just because a passenger won't be able to use a small weapon to coerce the pilot and passengers to let him take over the plane does not mean that TSA can't be useful in preventing someone from taking a bomb or other device on board that can take down the plane (which would be just about as bad as taking over a plane).
That doesn't mean that I agree that TSA's security theater is the best way to prevent this.
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As 9/11 was the only significant terrorist-based airline disaster in my lifetime (and I have more years before 2001 than after), I am quite comfortable saying that we don't need the TSA.
But even if we say that there's a slightly increased chance of a disaster without the TSA... terrorists could detonate a bomb aboard two 747 flights every day, every year, and it would still be a distant third [cdc.gov] cause of death for US citizens.
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I agree. But by that logic we don't need the TSA either so...
Personally, I've through that each airport should have a wing for people who are willing to fly at their own risk. Tickets would cost less, you could get there 15 minutes before the flight, etc... It will never happen, but it would be a nice idea.
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Why do people keep saying this? There have been hijackings since 9/11 in which the plane was not destroyed and the hijackers took control of the plane.
For an assuredly incomplete list, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings [wikipedia.org]
Pay particular attention to the 10+ ones listed after September 11, 2001.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do people keep saying this? There have been hijackings since 9/11 in which the plane was not destroyed and the hijackers took control of the plane.
Which one of those was a flight originating from inside the US on a US airline?
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I left my laptop at security last time I flew. $70 to have it shipped including $28 for the stupid UPS box.
Yeah, avoid doing that if you can help it. (TSA guy stacked the boxes when they random searched me and it is a thin Chromebook)
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Informative)
They should just charge a $5 fee and mail it to you if you don't want it destroyed.
Back in the eighties, they did. Well minus the charge. If you had a dangerous item (knife, drafting compass, ...), you handed it in at the security checkpoint, it would go into a box in the cargo hold (together with similar items of other passengers), and you got it back on arrival.
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They should just charge a $5 fee and mail it to you if you don't want it destroyed.
Most major airports have kiosks for explicitly this purpose.
Which ones? I've never seen one.
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Only one I've seen was Kansas airport (didn't see them in LAX, JFK, etc.).
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:5, Informative)
They should just charge a $5 fee and mail it to you if you don't want it destroyed.
Most major airports have kiosks for explicitly this purpose.
Which ones? I've never seen one.
Here's a list of airports for one company's checkpoint mailers, there are probably other companies that do the same thing in other airports:
http://www.airportmailers.com/airportlist.php [airportmailers.com]
There was a company called ReturnKey that did the same thing (I linked to an Engadget article that mentions them in another post), but their domain is dead, so they seem to have gone out of business.
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No they dont. the LARGEST hubs, Dallas/Ft Worth, Minnesota, Ohare, LAX, and JFK do not have this or anything at all like this.
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Nothing like getting to where you are flying and by reflex reaching for that Swiss Army Knife I always carry, because something needs a little tweak.
But by all means, let's continue to behave like a bunch of frightened lemmings.
this also ends my plans for Ackthpt's Small Knives And Pointy Objects Emporium in airports from coast to coast.
Re:There goes another Swiss Army knife (Score:4, Insightful)
this also ends my plans for Ackthpt's Small Knives And Pointy Objects Emporium in airports from coast to coast.
Yeah, now you know why the TSA rescinded the order - they didn't want you to compete with their current side business [gizmodo.com] selling pocket knives. (I think my uncle bought a box of corkscrews by the pound).
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wonder if (Score:2)
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people knew there was a secret society of "spork" wielding master assassins........
Fortunately for us they are too busy with their ancient doctrinal conflict with the equally secret society of "foon" wielding corsairs.
Another reason I no longer fly. (Score:3)
Besides the horrible service and the conditions (ie personal space mostly) on aircraft today, they continue with these absurd bans on common items. I never leave home without a knife, many times a SAK, other times a Spyderco or Queen. To me that would be like leaving home without pants. You just don't think about it, you just do it. When I do need to fly I'm very much aware that I'm without my knife or even the P-38 I keep on my keychain (I'm sure they would figure out how to take that away as well).
Re:Another reason I no longer fly. (Score:5, Funny)
I had to look that up to figure out why you were trying to take a P-38 Lightning through TSA.
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I was curious which people would think I meant - the plane or the gun! Nope, just the can opener. But try to explain that to TSA.
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Well, if I'm being honest, I assumed you didn't mean the plane and that P-38 must also refer be something small, like a pocket knife. I looked it up and found it was a can opener. I am deeply ashamed that I ever implied that I thought you might actually be carrying around a WW2-era fighter.
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Sup Dawg. I heard you like planes. So I put a plane in your plane, so you can fly while you fly.
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Are conditions really bad enough to stop people flying? Admittedly, I have little experience of flying within the US (although I am returning from SFO to LHR in three weeks so I will get to experience things first hand).
When I fly from the UK (domestic & international), I'm used to turning up no more than 60 mins before the flight leaves - even if I have hold baggage and don't have fast track security. I'm not going to pretend economy seats are the height of luxury, but in general I try to get the front
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Are conditions really bad enough to stop people flying?
Um, yes.
I used to fly for fun: when I lived near London I'd fly to New York for a long weekend, for example. But now I only fly when I have to, entirely because of the security theater and its insane and randomly varying rules.
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They really are for various reasons, but I'll say space is my biggest gripe. I had to fly earlier this year - first time in two years. My first leg actually wasn't bad. I'm 6'3" and I go about 350 lbs, so I'm a big guy. I was in the middle seat on a newer United 757 and was relatively comfortable with guys on either side of me. Don't get me wrong, it was cozy but it was tolerable. My return trip however was horrible and I even had an aisle seat with no one in the middle seat next to me. This was an older Co
Re: Another reason I no longer fly. (Score:2)
The US travel experience isn't terrible. The problem is that its treated with crazy different rules than any other mass transit.
I have not had problems... BUT... I try to travel in comfortable clothes, and remember to empty metal items into my carry-on bag ahead of time, take off your belt before getting in line, untie your shoes do you don't slow things up, remember to pack the laptop and iPad do they easily unpack and repackage quickly, and keep cords wound up in a separate container, have all that ready
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With "TSA-Pre" (which you can get e.g. by signing up for global entry) you can avoid many of
these inconveniences. e.g. you can keep shoes on, keep computer inside bag, keep liquids in bag.
Global entry has other major advantages for international travelers (avoid immigration lines).
http://www.globalentry.gov/ [globalentry.gov]
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Are conditions really bad enough to stop people flying?
People's rights are violated when they try to get on a plane. What do you think the answer is?
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It depends on your definition of bad. It's bad enough and annoying but usually not awful. If you fly into the US, avoid any contact with Atlanta airport.
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Well in most Australian states, it's now illegal to carry even a small Swiss Army style keychain knife anywhere, Period.
Well, that's Crocodile Dundee fscked then.
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That really blows my mind. I couldn't imagine going around without mine, and I have many to pick from. It's just so handy to have. Car breaks down? Knives come in handy in many ways there. Pet get caught up on your walk and you need to cut a piece of string, rope, etc to free them (this has happened to me)? You need your knife. Open a box? Much easier with a small pocket knife. Bored? We were taught "whittling" in scouts as recently as 30 years ago. I can understand restrictions on switch blades and very la
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Which is funny considering Paul Hogan managed to convince the rest of the world Australians all walked around with 12" bush knives stuffed down their pants ;)
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He convinced me they hang bread on walls and use a blowtorch to make toast.
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Only on special occasions.
No surprise really (Score:5, Insightful)
If they allowed knives back on, and any kind of terrorist attack occurred with knives, then someone would be held responsible for that decision, no matter how wise it seemed at the time. If they disallow knives, people will kick and scream, but won't actually change their flying behavior much, and everyone's job will be safe.
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I'll take responsibility for it. It will have about as much effect as trying to pin the responsibility for the decision on any government official.
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If they allowed knives back on, and any kind of terrorist attack occurred with knives, then someone would be held responsible for that decision, no matter how wise it seemed at the time.
If they allowed little knives on planes, and someone was foolish enough to try to hijack the plane with one, they would arrive at the next airport as a pile of thinly sliced pieces.
IMO they should allow anything that won't endanger the integrity of the cabin.
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IMO they should allow anything that won't endanger the integrity of the cabin.
Actually, the TSA should just be eliminated outright. Problem solved.
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If they allowed knives back on, and any kind of terrorist attack occurred with knives, then someone would be held responsible for that decision, no matter how wise it seemed at the time. If they disallow knives, people will kick and scream, but won't actually change their flying behavior much, and everyone's job will be safe.
Be serious - TSA is a government agency, there's no such thing as holding someone accountable.
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Why don't imbeciles just realize that sometimes bad things happen, and freedom is more important than safety? The TSA needs to be destroyed.
Whew! TSA flew much too close to sane policy ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of making folks discard completely non-threatening items, TSA should look into *actual* security.
The airport should have a series of series of checkpoints. Every vehicle that pulls onto the property goes past a guard that asks you how your day is going (screen #1). At the ticket counter, a friendly agent asks if you are enjoying the weather (screen #2). Drop off your bags, some other random, friendly question (screen #3). Lastly, at the x-ray / metal detector / body scanner, the attending agent looks you in the eye and chats with you again (screen #4). Every station should be manned by trained security personel empowered to flag you for greater scrutiny. Add to that randomized patrols and searches.
The staged checkpoints also reduce the likelihood of an attacker targeting that massive line to get through security. (In the TSA system, no one waiting in that line has been through any prior screen.)
Stagger the checks and ensure redundancy. It's not cheap, it would require TSA to hire/pay much better than they do now, but it would get you better security. Banning Swiss Army Knives and hockey sticks doesn't make anyone safer.
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Every station should be manned by trained security personel empowered to flag you for greater scrutiny.
The TSA seems to love spending money on everything but actually training their personnel to be properly security-conscious and informed. Having some of the lowest entry requirements relative to pay scale of any job in the country doesn't help either.
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How many terrorists have the Israelis caught at airports?
I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, but I don't remember them doing so any time in the last couple of decades.
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Re: Whew! TSA flew much too close to sane policy . (Score:3)
It's the "Disney" approach. If you go to Disney, they break up the long lines with spaces, corridors, and choke points. Disney does this so it doesn't appear you are in a crazy long line for teacups. But it would work for security too.
Then you insert various detectors along the moving sidewalks and other places in the airport where "single file" lines naturally occur. The biggest thing is to have lots of "helper" agents in the middle looking with eyeballs.
The problem is that our airports were built like sho
Re: Whew! TSA flew much too close to sane policy . (Score:5, Insightful)
Here in the USA, these procedures are not used and checkpoints are not bombed because, as all sane people know, terrorism is not a problem in this country.
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The pilot radios the nearest airport, lands, and the SWAT team takes over?
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I didn't just invent this model, it's used at Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv.
The checkpoint screens take a few seconds each, they aren't reading you a long prepared statement and checking to see if you respond yes or no. They are looking you in the eye and asking you about your day; they are trained to pick up on your reaction and filter through lots of people quickly. This doesn't move the line outside the airport, as you suggest, it divides the crowds into smaller pools of potential victims and creates "rings" of
Doesn't affect me so I don't care (Score:5, Funny)
I don't carry knives, don't even like them. I use spears.
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And Wolverine eschews air travel.
My CarryOn-Jutsu is Stronger than Yours (Score:5, Funny)
"Sir please remove your arms and legs, you can't take them on the plane"
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Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!
X-actly (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, hockey sticks and the other stuff should be fine. Actually small knives would be, too.
Prior to 9/11, the policy for a skyjacking was sit tight and wait for ransom demands, or to fly some idiot to Cuba.
That morning it changed forever. Passengers will revolt. Pilots will bounce people around in the cabin. Threats to kill people will correctly go unheeded and the cockpit door will stay closed. Even flights with insufficient other passengers still won't lose control.
So...so what about small knives and X-acto box cutters? Such a takeover will never work again.
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Good thing no terrorist can afford to fly first class where they still have metal utensils with meals. And good think no terrorist would think to bring aboard a duty-free liquor bottle they could smash into a sharp weapon. Good thing that the scissors, screwdrivers, canes, high heels, stems of eyeglasses, etc., etc. people are allowed to bring on board couldn't possibly hurt anyone. Good thing the TSA has protected all of us from all possible harm on flights with their wise and discerning policies. /K
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"How many such casualties are you prepared to accept? "
all of them, because if you open the door then all of them plus others on the ground will die. The pilots have far more control than the terrorist with a knife could ever hope for. Inverted flight will spoil his plans quickly. Hell even a rapid decent or simply hitting the airbrakes and decelerating rapidly will make everyone not in their seat fly foreward rapidly and bash their head in.
As a pilot the first thing I would do is put the plane into a
OK, TSA, please tell me why... (Score:5, Interesting)
why do restaurants after security at Chicago O'Hare give customers metal knives, while restaurants at DFW do not?
And in the past, I have been given a metal knife when flying in first class (obviously, first class passengers cannot be terrorists!)
Do TSA rules ban equipment to sharpen metal dinner knives? I doubt it.
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And in the past, I have been given a metal knife when flying in first class (obviously, first class passengers cannot be terrorists!)
First, I'm kind of curious when this happened? I haven't flown in a sufficiently high class since 9/11, but I remember when airlines used to give you hot food. I don't know if they still do or not--it may depend on how far you're going and which airline you're using.
That said, first class passengers are not terrorists because terrorists are frugal. Remember the guys who tried to blow up the World Trade Center using a truck bomb and then went back for the deposit on the tuck? And none of the 9/11 Terrori
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Even business class will give you metal knives and real glassware.
Not that it matters, the plastic knives they give the cattle class can still do plenty of damage, I'm sure you could make a real mess of someone's throat with one.
Farking security theatre.
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About 4 or 5 years ago, definitely after 9/11. I think that the last time I flew in domestic first class on American, they gave me plastic knives, but I dont remember clearly.
They would fly first if it were essential to their plans.
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And none of the 9/11 Terrorists flew first class because why spend the extra money if you're going to crash or blow up the plane?
Uhhh, dude... all but one of the 9/11 Hijackers flew first or business class (mostly first) on their various flights.
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I was at DFW recently and ate a steak with a nice sharp Steak knife inside of the security zone.
TSA security is theater only to keep the panicky low IQ crowd happy.
Security theater... (Score:2)
Real Solution to Security on Airplanes (humor) (Score:2)
Archie had this figured out in 1974 or so. A classic from American TV history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM [youtube.com]
sigh... (Score:2)
The pathetic pansies won this round...
Oh well (Score:2)
There goes my knife. And my pen. And my glasses. And my belt. And my teeth. And my finger- and toenails. It's been said many, many times, but sooner or later perhaps the TSA will realize that people are potential security risks and ban everyone altogether.
On a less ranting and more constructive note, when were small knives banned? I recall back in the day of airport security small knives with blades less than, oh, I don't know, six inches? were allowed.
You got a vote, so stop complaining (Score:2)
It's OK for the government to take away your freedom. Because you got a vote. Slashdot commenters say so.
If the government weren't oppressing you, then some corporation running the airlines might enact a reasonable policy instead, without consulting you at all. This way, you got a vote. See how great that worked out? You all remember voting for the TSA, right?
Misssing the point. (Score:3)
What worries the stewardess is the out-if-control passenger with a knife.
The flight crew may be safe behind their armored door.
But she is out there, utterly exposed --- and you are wedged in your seat five rows back and in no position to help her.
The TSA weaved and bobbed around answering the question of how many casualties it was prepared to accept in an incident like this --- and that in the end was fatal.
Pack rats. (Score:2)
This is just greed by the government to collect all those little items. They're like pack rats.
Sucks, but this is the new America (Score:2)
I have a leatherman that is *awesome*. It's one of those tools you'd love to have with you 24/7 because it's so versatile. But, I wouldn't trust myself to get into the habit of carrying it around and risk the danger of taking it through some checkpoint and getting arrested for attempted terrorism.
Another TSA reminder (Score:4, Interesting)
Another TSA reminder that the "terrorist won" or I should say the opportunistic fear mongering traitors and the bureaucracies, and traitorous policies they implemented won. Every time I'm reminded of these pseudo Nazi pricks stripping and frisking my 70 year old mother and fucking up her luggage as they rifled it while on one of their "show my ass because I have authority" power trips, I have to edit what I say lest I end up in Gitmo. Imagine that, being afraid to say what you really think in America.
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The war on the american people started on 9/12 IT was started by the Bush administration and the Obama Administration is working hard to continue the war.
9/11 was used as an excuse to trample on those pesky rights, and the people were stupid and soaked it up. Sadly, most americans are still ragingly stupid and are happy about all the rights that were lost.