A Circular New York City Subway Map To Straighten Things Out 124
Daniel_Stuckey writes "The U.K.'s Max Roberts, a mapmaker and critic, has created a map that sees this problem and then solves it by adopting a similar distortion strategy to the MTA map, but to a far greater degree. The map heads in the direction of a diagram and away from a map representing features. It may be the most lucid reinterpretation of the New York City subway map I've seen yet."
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
"The U.K.'s Max Roberts, a mapmaker and critic, has created a map that sees this problem and then solves it"
Sees what problem?
Seriously, if you're going to summarise an article event then fucking do so the right way...
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Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
....sometimes the maps show stations as connected but there's a long walk underground, for instance.
I once had the opposite problem on the London underground. I can't remember where exactly but I think it was going from the Planetarium to another tourist attraction. I looked at my underground map and saw I had to take two trains and switch lines to get to another station near the other attraction. I went into the underground and after waiting for trains emerged 20 minutes later - and realised that I was a few hundred yards down the road from where I had started!
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Is it somewhere near the Virgin Megastore? I seem to remember there being two stations that were almost stone-throwing distance apart.
It's not so bizarre when you consider that the network wasn't planned as an entity; the older (generally shallower) lines were originally independently operated.
Re: Huh? (Score:2)
The London Underground map has all of those issues and it's worked just fine for approaching 100 years. I don't see why New York visitors would have any more or less difficulty.
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It's a pretty map, but it requires an extra level of abstraction for users to properly understand. NYC natives will understand the map just fine, but visitors will find it MORE confusing.
I don't know about that - the London Underground map doesn't accurately reflect distances, yet it's one of the best known and easy to understand metro system maps in the world. This NYC map is the same, just for NYC.
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The map is not worth much without the streets on it. You usually need a map if you don't know where you are going.
I look for the nearest street to the address I want to go to and then find the nearest subway station. The current map has worked for me for at least 30 years without any problems.
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I thought the same thing, WTF were those two red & blue maps of NYC?
Laconic (Score:5, Informative)
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Sort of, but not entirely. He's redrawn the London Underground in a "circular" style [essex.ac.uk] (scroll to the bottom) which *isn't* the same as the well-known one.
Circular Tube Map (Score:4, Interesting)
The circular tube map, in my opinion, is much better than the square one we have now. Since the original was created quite a number of lines have been added, as well as tram lines and the overground lines which has caused it to be come quite cluttered. The circular map seems to solve this and give a much better indication of where the line actually goes. I'd hope TFL look at it closely.
I don't know much about the NYC subway system but one thing is obvious, they really need to rethink the colours for the lines in Brooklyn, as they're far too similar!
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Circular Tube Map has YOU!!!!! (Score:1)
Really? Then why didn't you link to one?
That's a rectangular map with one circle near the middle.
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In Soviet Russia, you hoist own petard!!!!! (Score:2)
No it doesn't. According to your link it has a circle line. According to the map in your link, its shape is far from circular. If it's anything at all it's amoeboid.
London also has a circle line. It's even less circular than that one.
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There's also the Yamanote Line [wikipedia.org] in Tokyo.
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Re:Circular Tube Map (Score:5, Interesting)
The subway system's colors weren't designed for Brooklyn. They were designed for Manhattan.
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Re:Circular Tube Map (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Circular Tube Map (Score:5, Insightful)
The subway map is roughly geographically correct while not being all squished together. It's easy to see what stops you need to get off when you need to transfer and also it works as a real map for most tourists since a lot of attactions are displayed on the map (Rockefeller Center, Natural History Museum, Central Park, etc.) As a native New Yorker that uses a subway map almost daily, this circular design doesn't seem to add any benefit.
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Well, I more often find myself thinking "I need to get to [some address], on a map it's right around this intersection, I wonder which stop is the closest". That's almost always the initial problem you face when you're about to go somewhere with a public transport system you're not intimately familiar with. Only after this do things like "which station should I change trains at?" factor in.
Add to this that may times public transport systems will have a stop/station named "Something Street" which is actually
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Do circuit diagrams necessarily reflect the actual length of the wires? How about LAN schematics?
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Unfortunately subways don't move at the speed of light, so distance is a practical concern.
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Awww :(
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Less so than the number of connections, most of the time; you can spend perhaps a thrid of your time waiting rather then moving. Given that the nonlinearity is more pronounced the further out you get, and the further out you get the fewer alternative routes there are, it's not like you can do much about it even if you have the corvofugal vector.
Also, once you've lived somewhere for a while, you sort of get a feel for it. It's clear that Hammersmith is much further from LHR than it is from King's Cross, th
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Does your mom drive you everywhere? Because it seems to me you've never used the metro in a major city, ever.
Sorry, but that was uncalled for. Not everybody lives in a metropolis with great public transport. Where I used to live didn't have any subway/train system at all. Where I am now there is marginal train coverage, but if you don't take it in rush hour you'll probably reach your destination minus a few personal possessions. If you want to take a phone or laptop with you during off-peak hours driving is the only safe option.
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You can use this in conjunction with an actual map if you really need to.
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That's not to do with whether it's circular or not; it's to do with it being newer.
Posters and paper maps (and screens) are rectangular. A circle wastes space. I suppose they could put ads in the corners ...
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Transit maps are schematic or topological. The direction is to a certain extent arbitrary, or at least approximate. They don't represent the true direction, nor are they intended to.
A circle can't fill a square page. Geometry fail.
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The circular tube map, in my opinion, is much better than the square one we have now ... I don't know much about the NYC subway system but one thing is obvious ...
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Wild guess: you use a Mac.
By "use" I mean "carry around ostentatiously", of course.
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I find it easier to follow straight lines (especially when they're at a multiple of 45 degrees) than curved ones, but maybe that's just familiarity.
Looks like a solution in search of a problem to me.
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The only thing this map does well is show the lines crossing the east river. If anything, it's counter-intuitive because it looks like many lines connect, when in fact they don't. A tourist might get on the Q line in Brighton Beach and expect to transfer to the S line to get to the G line. Or take the Green G line to Harold Square. Not going to happen.
Forcing the lines to be on parallel circular lines causes you to make assumptions about continuous service between two points on that line, when there
Current map? (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is the real map so that we can compare it to it?
Why can't people write good articles? Including the current map for comparison should have been an obvious thing to do.
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I'm not a native NY-er, but I'm pretty familiar with the city and I'm good with maps. If I need to go from Manhattan to Brooklyn, I know in my head where I'm going on the map. This thing distorts a traditional map so that geographically you're all messed up.
Probably the best thing the MTA can do would be to make separate maps for the different lines or even just the different boroughs. Or just have a fri
That map is originally from 1972. (Score:2)
The Vignelli Map. A triumph of minimalist, functional design - and pure beauty to boot. The original had some geographic information (parks, major landmarks, etc) but when he redesigned it for the Weekender he stripped even that out. Now it's just lines and stops, as it should be. You need to worry about geography on the street, not in the Land of the Mole People.
Re:Current map? (Score:5, Informative)
Ask and ye shall receive [mta.info].
Re:Current map? (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, that looks so much more useful. ;-)
They should switch from the stupid circular map in the article to this one
Seriously, though. The reason they didn't include this map in the article was probably because it is so obviously better than the circular one. They had to juxtapose the circular one with nothing to make it look like it's worth anything.
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The funny thing is the map they had before it was even more useful: it had bubbles at major bus transfer points that showed all of the transfers (and the neighborhoods the bus routes served). They still use that version in the stations but not on the trains or for taking home. The extra information was removed because some consulting firm said it was too "confusing" - yeah maybe for tourists, but for us natives it was amazing.
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could have been relevant. Apple oversimplifies (Score:2)
Useless (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that subways rarely take you exactly where you want to go. They take you NEAR where you want to go. So your destination is not the subway station you're going to but some other place not on the network ABOVE GROUND that is near that station. Which means distorting the subway map into a flow chart that doesn't line up with the above surface maps/topography is a deal breaker. I want to know where the hell I'm going. Not just the name of the station but the actual street I'm going to pop out at. Because that's where I'm actually going.
This might work fine for tourists. I really don't know. Maybe some guy reading off a card finds this more useful for getting around. But couldn't the same guy do just as well with the old map? I just don't get the point of this map. It makes the map less useful.
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This kind of map works very well in Boston. (http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/). There, the location on a map is next to useless for driving distances because of all the random street layouts and oneways and occassional construction. The large, iconic map gets you to a station at or near your stop, then the wall maps at the stop give more local directions.
I've also traveled in New York. the old map was pretty useless because it's way too cluttered in the busiest junctions and doesn't show the p
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The "old" (I assume you mean current) NY subway map is amazing: compare [mta.info]. The Boston map is good but kindof crappy in some ways - for example, I kept going to Aquarium on the blue line for Quincy market because I had no idea the green line Haymarket station was close. And it sucks for strictly transit purposes too: from that map it is impossible to know that the E at the unnamed stop just before Heath st and D at "Brookline Village" are actually a 5 minute walk apart. Similarly, the D at Reservoir, C at C
Re:Useless (Score:5, Informative)
But that's the point, these stylised maps are to navigate the transport system, not to get around at a surface level. They serve different needs. When you've a map where all the lines are geographically correct it makes it hard to understand how to get from station A to station B, make out the station names and there is a lot of wasted space! Have a look at the London underground geographical map [wordpress.com] vs the actual tube map [bbc.co.uk] for example.
Far better to have a map that fits the purpose. If you want to navigate at the surface level, buy a proper map.
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I think a lot of people who are very familiar with the 'standard' London Underground map would find the geographical version fascinating, slightly disturbing and strangely beautiful (like some sort of multi-coloured octopus).
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As someone else said, your idea means we need additional maps to cross reference with your map.
I do understand what you're saying though. You want some sort of station flow chart.
How about just having a list?
That is, have a normal geographically accurate map above with color coded lines. Consider having some sort of ID code/line name by the lines if you've got too many lines for colors to clearly differentiate them.
Then have a list for all their stops in order. Put some sort of code/color dot/etc by stops t
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Possibly of use to you:
http://images.nycsubway.org/maps/spui_nyc_subway_map_1224px.png [nycsubway.org]
That is what I think the maps should more resemble. YES, it know it isn't very polished. Please assume the actual map fit for publishing was cleaned up a bit. Look over a city road map and you'll see more detail then even in that map without crude elements that make this map look bad. Just look at the information.
Ideally, I would super impose or integrate this map with a regular city map so that you could very easily see w
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Far better to have a map that fits the purpose. If you want to navigate at the surface level, buy a proper map.
Fortunately one can buy a nicely made flat map that has both the geography and clear subway navigation on it. I got my last one, for Boston, at a bookstore a few years ago (remember those?) I think it was about $7, thinly laminated, and folded cleverly upon itself, for pocket storage.
You won't find it for free from the bureaucrats who only care about their fiefdom, but there was a need so it was
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Here's a London Tube Map [tfl.gov.uk]. What is the quickest way to get to Bayswater from Queensway?
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Algorithm (Score:1)
1) Use above ground map to locate nearby station to your start/destination.
2) Use subway map to work out how to to get from station A to station B
Above ground maps are for use above ground. Subway maps are for use below ground. Don't conflate the two.
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Is this you?
http://www.strangeguys.com/2011/07/13/woman-almost-drives-her-car-through-subway-access-stairs/ [strangeguys.com]
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Then you look at a street map to see where your destination is in relation to the nearest subway station, and where you are in relation to the nearest subway station; and the subway map to figure out how to get by subway between the two stations.
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I agree one million percent.
How am I supposed to drive to Heathrow using this pile of crap [skyvector.com]
Manhattan and subway maps (Score:3, Informative)
Well (Score:1)
If it worked for them, it can sure work for New York.
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If it worked for them, it can sure work for New York.
Clearly it didn't.
Probably the reason it sank...
Staten Island (Score:2, Flamebait)
Can’t they just leave Staten Island off of there altogether? That’s not part of the subway, and it only got included on the official map after it won the mayoral office for Giuliani, who is a total asshole.
He should do a similar one for Tokyo (Score:1)
That subway network [speedymole.com] is somewhat more complex than New York's.
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Looking at the maps, I wouldn't say the Tokyo map is bigger or more complex? Having visited Tokyo, the sheer crowds, enormous stations, and multiple separate metro companies do make it complex though :). I don't really think a new map is what would fix that though ^^
disclaimer: haven't visited NY
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Tokyo was my first experience of subways. After that, I had no problem deciphering other cities' subway maps. Thankfully, Tokyo seems to be the only city with a subway map design inspired by a bowl of ramen.
Not seeing much difference (Score:1)
As someone familiar with the subway and the standard maps, I don't really see much advantage in this alternate design. The current are easy enough to deal with if you have decent reading skills. I prefer the way the current map indicates the points at which you cross from Manhattan - Brooklyn.
Also: the map has at least one mistake: Fort Hamilton Parkway and Church Avenue (on the F line) should be switched with each other.
Circular for the sake of circular (Score:2)
It does seem that the information content on the page is spread out much closer to uniformly, so it is mostly an improvement. But there are spots on the map where information is crowded together to preserve the aesthetics of the curves, so really no different in principle from a geographically accurate map or a stylized grid or any other solution.
I remember a short story (Score:3)
"A Subway named Mobius"
Not broken (Score:2)
This [nycsubwaymap.net] does not look broken to me. When I visited NYC many moons ago, I was not confused by the Subway. I didn't even have a map--I just used the ones in the station. To be fair, I never left Manhattan; but I did go way up to the Cloisters. I even took an express train back downtown. No missed stops. Just as easy as DC metro. Of course, I have laces on my shoes not velcro and I'm not a "designer". What? You don't like the tone of that? Shove it, buddy. This is a story about New York!
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Looking at both of them, tell me, where do I change from Line G to Line 7? How about Line A to Line 1? Line B to line G? This is a lot easier on the circular map.
Worst. Map. Ever. (Score:1)
This map is beyond useless. It gives you no idea of where you'll start or where you'll end up. Yes, you can finally see where your connections are, but that's really secondary to not ending up 3 miles away from where you wanted to be. Look at the D line in Brooklyn, 18th, 20th, Bay Parkway and 23rd all lie on 86th street, which can be seen as a stop on the R and N lines. This map shows the path to be perpendicular to 86th street, not on it. The distortion of Manhattan to cause the top of the borough to be w
The (legendary) Vignelli Map did this 30 years ago (Score:2)
Massimo Vignelli redid both the signage and the map for the MTA in the 70's. Minimalism all the way - the signage remains to this day, white Helvetica on a black background, simple colored circles for the lines, and almost nothing else...there's barely even any arrows.
And his map...oh, it's a thing of beauty. "It was not a map. It was a diagram. It was not about what happens aboveground. The purpose of the diagram was to show where the subway lines go." So perfect that when the MTA wanted a weekend-service- [mta.info]
how did they miss this one? (Score:1)
Trickery (Score:2)
Comparing the maps side by side, the most noticeable difference is the font size and the thickness of the route lines. This makes it seem more organized and less squeezed together. But in reality, to be able to read it from the same distance it would have to be in a larger format.
You can probably "improve" the current map by the same techniques and not have the same level of distortion. Maybe, a more detailed version can be put in pamphlet form and large station kiosks and the current form can go in each tr
Motorola RAZR? Whut? (Score:2)
Can someone explain where this "silhouette of a Motorola RAZR" thing fits in?
A link to (or even to a page with a link to) the current MTA map might have helped give a little context, too.
Newsflash Little extra effort yields better result (Score:2)
Professional map-maker putting extra effort into making non-crappy map makes better map.
News at eleven.
The NYC subway serves multiple types of users (Score:2)
Most of the stations - esp in S Brooklyn, outer Queens and The Bronx, serve mainly commuters and New Yorkers ( I mean seriously, how many tourists go up to see the hall of famous americans in The Bronx ? or the Bronx Zoo ? or the Brooklyn Museum ? (fabulous Egyptian collection btw)
Tourists need mainly manhattan, and the existing map does ok; the main problem is the multiplicity of trains on the tracks - local and express
If you are a serious tourist, get a Guide Michelin, or whatever the e-quivalent is; it w
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not new (Score:2)
This all goes back to Harry beck
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Beck [wikipedia.org]
He basically designed the abstract London Tube map and later the famous Paris Metro map on the same general priciple: sacrifice geo accuracy, for readabilty.
Reasoning would be one requires a different map underground, then above ground, as underground counting stations, and finding the best spot to switch trains is more important then geo correctness.
Circular has nothing to do with it, London's and Paris' are for square, but still have t
Where are the express trains? (Score:2)
Okay, where are the express trains? I don't see any diamond shapes on this map. Has the author been to NYC?
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Apparently Good design == dumbing down
The existing map is extremely hard to read. Maps should not be hard to read, they should be functional. I do not wish to use my limited consciousness deciphering a map when I could be doing something more useful with it.