Car Dealers vs the Web: GM Shifts Toward Online Purchasing 160
cartechboy writes "Car dealers may be in for a new battle, and it turns out existing car manufacturers are joining the fun. Tesla Motors began the rebellion by trying to sell electric cars directly to buyers. Car dealers have fought that effort state-by-state and even complained to the DMV about Tesla's website. But things just got a little more interesting. General Motors announced plans to expand its new web-based shopping tool (aka a shopping web site) that allows customers to bypass showrooms when buying new cars. The idea is to use the Web as a giant test platform to see if the automaker can better target people who use the web to buy things. The catch is that the web app, called 'Shop-Click-Drive' will allow users to do almost everything they'd do at a dealer: customize the car, get pricing and financing and even arrange for delivery. But then when you push the button, your "purchase" will be routed to GM's network of 4,300 dealers, so you still have to visit a local dealer to sign on the dotted line. Even with this limitation, the move is still making dealers nervous. GM dealers aren't required to participate in the web-based test, and company officials say they have had some dealers turn it down."
Good riddance ... (Score:3)
I hope that GM and other manufacturers go all of the way with online sales. Car dealerships consume an absurd amount of commercial realestate, and it is frequently prime commercial realestate.
Re:Good riddance ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good riddance ... (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'm 6'5" and plenty of both... as currently my wife requested brochures on a number of vehicles and trying to sell me on this feature or that... I remind her that regardless of any other facts or features... my primary deciding fact is which do I fit in comfortably, everything else is secondary.
I've spent a lovely 10 years with my Pontiac Aztek... and fear the day that it dies (or requires more to keep running than I could buy something new(er) for)... as I've found few things that are not full size SUVs th
Re:Good riddance ... (Score:5, Funny)
So YOU are the one guy that bought it!
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Hear hear.
I explain it this way .. "one size fits all" is a lie. And they don't make full size sedans like they used to. I'm currently driving a 94 Mercury Grand Marquis because I cannot fit in most other vehicles comfortably. Any smaller car, and my head is in the ceiling.
The 2 door Speck that most people can fit in looks like a clown car next to me.
Re:Good riddance ... (Score:4, Informative)
Being able to buy it online doesn't mean you can't buy it in person or see it in person.
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Buy a tractor for your fat body to ride in then?
So you work for GM? (Based on how poorly some fun GM cars fit me, yet a Suburu fits me well...)
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You must have bought something online, opened the box and went "ugh I thought it looked different" So why would you want to put down so much on a car only seen online?
Agreed.
I do like to identify a car online - find one of the make and features that I want. My favorite used lot lets me do that on their site, pretty much. But then I do need to go try it out.
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Re:Good riddance ... (Score:4, Informative)
How would online options really help with determining what has good feel/performance for a customer.
Depends on how much the customer cares about feel/performance. There are people out there who want basic transportation and aren't all that concerned with the other stuff. When I had a short commute, I didn't really care. When I had a long commute, I bought a new car because if I was going to spend an hour-and-a-half somewhere, I was going to enjoy it.
That said, I agree. However, look at Tesla--they have showrooms [teslamotors.com] where you can check out the cars. They do test drives, though you might have to arrange it in advance--I'm not sure you can just walk in and say, "Hey'd I'd like to test drive a roadster!" So they keep a model or two around for the test drive. You don't need acres and acres of land to park a bunch of cars that you hope to sell.
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True, but Tesla hasn't got very many models to sell either.
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For the feel of the car, you don't need a dealership with hundreds of cars sitting around to make this work. Let GM open a test drive center where they have that same number of cars. You get rid of the dealerships for many miles around this location, and just use this as your "look and feel" test platform. If you want the car, you can get one through this location, but it's mainly for people to see what they're offering.
For the colors, I've found that dealerships tend not to have available all of the color
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I hope that GM and other manufacturers go all of the way with online sales. Car dealerships consume an absurd amount of commercial realestate, and it is frequently prime commercial realestate.
That's an odd objection, since realestate is one thing we don't really have a shortage of.
What would you put in those so call prime commercial realestate? More outlets to sell costume jewelry, handbags, and shoes?
Seriously, most car dealerships take up room, but even in densely populated areas, there is still plenty of space.
They do! (Score:3)
Ask and ye shall receive! [amazon.com]
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government motors (Score:1, Funny)
Bring it on (Score:1)
I tried to buy a new car at a dealer recently and ended up walking out after being messed about and insulted with bait-and switch. Anything that gets rid of dishonest dealing and shoddy sales practices is a good thing. I say bring on direct purchasing ASAP.
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This is a GOOD thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Even though you have to buy from a dealer, this new GM website means you get exactly the car you want with the extras you want at a price that is set before you even set foot on the dealer lot. No negotiating and no up-sell.
Which is exactly why some dealers dont like it.
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They have literally millions involved in major businesses and don't want to be cut out of the process, just to run garages with nicely uniformed "technicians". So they have a lot of interest in making Internet sales focused on THEM, which is why they flood Craigslist and other sites, to also do what GM can't do--> deliver today.
If you can wait and circumvent what's been a tawdry sales process, so much the better. If you need alternate financing, delivered-today variety, someone to guide you without chatt
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GM currently doesn't do same-day delivery, but that's not a limitation of a central sales model -- they could easily stock cars in warehouses around the country ready for immediate delivery if they thought the sale advantage was worth the overhead.
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They could even convince other businesses to form, buy or lease large swaths of land, and warehouse that inventory for them. Heck, these new business may even pay for the privilege But then... maybe someone really does want the feature set that the marketing folks thought 68% of the car buying public would want (or what the marketing folks wanted them to want....). Maybe these storage/delivery/prep businesses would be willing to try and convince someone to buy a particular car in storage, convince them th
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Your sense of history isn't quite correct. The dealer networks were found to sell more cars, and quickly, and shift inventory burdens easily. There was anti-trust concerns at the time, but this was neither legislated in the US or mandated. It was more or less goaded organic growth. I'm not trying to justify dealer networks or argue against them. Value needs to be established in consumer supply stage, and dealers are going to have to work harder than before, because their value proposition to consumers has b
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>No negotiating and no up-sell.
Which is why I *won't* use the website.
Negotiating generally will knock off 10-20% on the price of a new car. The website will undoubtedly use MSRP for a variety of reasons, and maybe allow the nationwide promotions they run to discount the price. But it'll still be quite a bit more than your local dealer.
It's not hard to say no to the up-selling. "No thanks, I'll pay in cash." "No thanks, I don't need a warranty." And so forth. *Always* negotiate based on the "out the door
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I am a bit split on negotiating. In my experience dealers seem to bundle the options on their cars so that the most desirable options come with a lot of extra, unrelated junk. So the DVD system only comes in models with leather seats. Or the hands free calling is only available with high performance tire/wheels. Yes I can talk them down 10%, but we are starting 20% higher than I expected. If I could choose only the options I want, and save the time/hassle of "let me talk to my manager", that could be a
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Bundled options are *far* cheaper than customized options. It's one of the reasons American car companies have been getting their asses kicked.
We're talking like $2,000 vs $5,000 here.
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Some dealers might not like it, that is. Selling cars is not a big source of income for a dealer - the dealer markup is often quite low because people know what the dealer paid, so the profit can be just a couple of thousand dollars on a veh
This is the world's smallest violin... (Score:3, Funny)
... playing just for the middlemen.
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Amazon.com and EBay have tried to do this for 15+ years. But very few people are going to make a $20-$50 thousand dollar purchase online.
Wanting something to be true and successful won't make it so.
Most people looking for a car end up going to several different dealerships to do research to determine what they want to buy. How can they do that online?
What you want would be perfect and I agree, but the crappy truth is like Soylent Green:
Not Much Different From Existing Web Buy (Score:3)
This isn't all that different from existing car buying websites (outside the GM lock-in). Most sites like Edmunds, Autotrader, Cars, etc have features like inventory search, pricing, options, suggested market pricing. These sites connect you with dealers. The dealers pay the web sites to the leads. In return the sites get sales pricing data (which is one of the ways sites like Edmunds figures out TMV). I'm sure GM has a charge for the dealers for the leads. Perhaps slightly less than independent sites.
All GM is doing is pre-qualifying the financing, which mean the leads are slightly higher quality than Joe Blow internet.
If you wanted to get a better deal but don't like the art of the sale, Costco Auto is the better route to go.
I was just thinking about this since... (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a new car recently. I try to keep my cars as long as possible, but the old one was causing me to wonder how long it would last without another expensive repair. That meant a trip to the dealership, knowing quite well that I was about to have the worst category of retail experience known. It doesn't matter if you are buying a cheap car or an expensive one - dealers treat all customers the same way. Haggle, make you wait while the sales person "I will try to get my manager to accept your price, but he is going to beat me up..." talks fantasy football with his manager as you wait. (If you are trading in a car, they will take your keys to look at your trade-in. You will not be getting them back any time soon, so be sure to bring an extra set of keys you can drive off the lot while they are playing this game to wear you down.) Make them wait while you enjoy a sandwich or read a book in the coffee shop across the street.
After you endure that nonsense, you get to talk tot he "finance manager" who will try to get you to by an insanely overpriced extended warranty contract. If that doesn't work for the dealership, they will be happy to offer you very high rate auto loan. Think of what is happening: The sales rep is telling you how great the car is while you are looking at it, then the finance person is telling you an extended warranty is really needed because the car will probably have a major repair after the warranty period is over. Be sure to ask the finance person if they think you should tell the sales person you will not be buying the car since he or she just told you it really isn't a very well made car.
Car dealerships are really parasitic IMHO. They use their intermediary status to extract as much as possible from customers, and in doing so alienate the customers from the manufacturers. The manufacturer spends a huge amount of money establishing a brand, designing cars they hope will appeal to the public, taking capital risk, and managing production. Think of the extended warranty pitch - it totally undermines the manufacturer since it implies the car really isn't very reliable. My previous car was a high end brand, but I detested the sales and service department at the local dealer so much I vowed to never buy another model of that brand, even though I really liked the car. But none of this is new to anyone who has purchased a car from a dealership, new or used.
Given the above, and manufacturers know all of it, I am surprised that Ford and Chrysler aren't jumping on the direct sales model, too. They probably will though; the dealership model makes far less sense now that consumers can learn more about a car online than most car sales people will ever know, since that is not what they care about. Before the internet, it was necessary to go to a dealership to look at a car, maybe get a brochure and see what the car actually looked like. Of course the buyer still has to test drive the car, but there is no reason manufacturers can't follow the Tesla model. This is a bit of a simplification, since Tesla cars in high demand and people are willing to wait for one. There is also a lot to be said for having inventory on a lot since it simplifies distribution and might help close a deal. But... I think every manufacturer would clamp down on the pathetic treatment of customers their dealers engage in if they were selling directly.
A friend of mine is thinking about buying a BMW M3, but I told him he should drive a Tesla first given that the two models are similar in price. The BMW might be a good car, but he dislikes the dealership experience as much as anyone. Why support the dealership business model if there is a choice? My thought is that my next car will be a Tesla not only because it is a great car, but also because I know my money won't support the jerks who run auto dealerships.
Given the intermediary advantage the dealer has when approached by a customer, it is no wonder they are fighting the direct sales model. They have a license to steal, and don't want to give it up. We hav
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(If you are trading in a car, they will take your keys to look at your trade-in. You will not be getting them back any time soon, so be sure to bring an extra set of keys you can drive off the lot while they are playing this game to wear you down.)
I had this happen once. Fortunately for me, it was a fairly busy day, with a dozen other customers in the showroom. I went to the manager's office, and told him to either return my keys, or I'd go out in the showroom and very loudly complain about this particular tactic.
I got my keys back (and was escorted out of the showroom) in under 2 minutes...
Re:I was just thinking about this since... (Score:5, Informative)
Bought a car a few years ago, and found this non-profit that had a great strategy:
http://www.checkbook.org/auto/CarBargains_Secrets.pdf
You can never know what the dealership is getting from the factory in terms of kickback, so it's next to impossible to negotiate a deal all by yourself. The sales rep is never going to lose money on the car (despite what they may tell you); they'll just walk away. So even when they cry and tell you you're keeping them from feeding their family just know that they're making enough to cover their expenses. Your best bet is to put your purchase out to bid to multiple dealerships and let them fight it out. We did this and saved $2500 off the "invoice" price that Consumer Reports said we should be "aiming for" to get a good deal.
Let me say it again: make them bid; it's the only way to keep them honest.
As a side bonus, you don't have to deal with crazy add-ons, haggling, or waiting for managers to "approve" your deal. You e-mail the dealerships, tell them what you want, and ask for their final, out-the-door, all-fees-included price. Pick the winning one, print out the e-mail so you have it in writing, and go to the dealership to pick up your car. If they try to add anything on, just point to your e-mail and invite them to throw it in for the included price you've already committed to (we got "free" floor mats and locking wheel nuts, probably because they didn't want to bother to take them off).
Note that you have to be willing to contact multiple dealers, wait for responses, and follow through. If you want to buy the brand-new 2014 model whatever, in hot pink, and you need it TODAY, then this isn't the strategy for you. If you're willing to be patient to save a couple grand, try it out.
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To put more bite in your tactic, you really need to make sure that the dealerships are not owned by the same person or group. A friend of mine tried that and the bids came in pretty similar and didn't move much. He was driving by a nearby county seat (about 30 minutes away) just to see what they would do, they came back $500 cheaper than the email. He told them he would think about it. All of a sudden, he had a real bidding war in the emails. He ended up getting it for $2000 less than what he was origi
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Wow. That looks really complicated. So far I've bought 3 used cars after shopping around on eBay and at used car lots. If that's the kind of effort that is needed, I'll stick to used cars...
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My experience was a lot different, but then I knew exactly what I wanted...a used Toyota Station Wagon. And I wasn't interested in anything that wasn't a cash down deal. Perhaps that made a difference.
I went into two dealerships that didn't have what I wanted. The third did. I bought. I didn't haggle for the best price, but I let them know ahead of time that I wouldn't, and if the price they offered wasn't satisfactory, I'd check somewhere else...I'm pretty sure I didn't also indicate what I though wou
Earth to GM—time for reality check (Score:2)
I will not—repeat—NOT buy a car unless I have driven it first. So, I will test drive it, then go online and see if I can get it from GM for less. If I and others can, GM will put its dealer network out of business. How are they going to sell cars then? They'll have to open a series of GM stores as the dealers get put out of business, something which will probably get the remaining dealers into Federal court fast. And if GM ultimately wins and you can only buy a GM car from GM, I'm not certa
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You say that like Apple Stores are pleasant. In my experience, they're great if you want to fawn over the products on display, but terrible if you want to actually buy anything or get support. The "geniuses" are unknowledgeable, arrogant twats with condescending attitudes. Staff are always too busy to help you, or assure you that someone will come to look after you then no-one does. Unless you need something on the day, y
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..look man, where the effing fuck do you think the dealer buys their GM cars from? think mcfly think!
aanyhow, how about they bring the car for a test drive over to your house?
what you would be losing with the dealers(as dealers) out of the picture is HAGGLING. I fucking hate haggling. and the price you're haggling about is the dealers cut, GM has a set price for the car..
Everything else comes from the Internet (Score:2)
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Good idea (Score:2)
Good idea, but isn't Best Buy and other retailers complaining about the "showroom effect?" How's that going to work when car dealers are just giant test drive outlets?
That said, wow, the ability to drop the stupid haggle dance with your typical slimeball car salesman would be awesome. I'd pay more for the privilege. I can't stand haggling over a few hundred dollars, and actively dislike all salesdroids.
One factor they have to take into account is that car dealerships actually don't make much money on the ca
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Good idea, but isn't Best Buy and other retailers complaining about the "showroom effect?" How's that going to work when car dealers are just giant test drive outlets?
They also get payed for servicing the sold vehicles (my local dealership for the brand I drive has excellent service department and absolutely disgusting sales people). The current practice where the dealers are incentivized to gouge the client on the sales price, useless options and on financing, is cutting into the potential profits for the manufacturers and is doing horrible damage to their brands. I am surprised that the car makers together with online merchants have not pushed harder at the dealers. I
Recently bought a Nissan... (Score:2)
I would have given anything to accomplish this feat with Nissan last year. I figured out what car my wife and I could settle on (2 year process), and then tried to get one. Alas the last of the 2011's were already sold. So then I waited a few months and tried to get a 2012 vehicle. Alas those were delayed due to the flooding that also hit the nuclear plant and made much news. When I finally got a dealer to ship me one from 1200 miles away, I still didn't get all the exact options that I wanted. Most n
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I tried shopping for a Honda a year and a half ago, and the dealer didn't even have a model in stock to test drive because of first the Japanese tsunami and then some flooding in Thailand(?). They keep their manufacturing chains so tightly optimized that just a few missing parts derails the entire delivery process, and they were without anything to demonstrate at all.
Not new (Score:2)
Welcome to Mini Cooper a la 2006.
Couldn't happen soon enough (Score:2)
Recently purchased a new Mustang. I wasn't sure this time what I wanted and had a list of possible choices including the Camero, FR-S and Challenger. Many of the local dealers don't want to order a vehicle. Few had base models on the lot. Anything under 30k wasn't on the lot. Some dealers didn't even have a car I could test drive.
Step 1 is actually forcing dealers to keep updated inventory. I don't know how many times I went to a dealership or called and a vehicle had been gone for weeks.
If GM improve
How to do this right in two steps (Score:2)
Step 1.
Make a simple web site where I build the car that I want to buy and tell me what the MSRP should be. If I want the purchase agreement can be signed digitally on the Internet and I all I have to do is go pick it up.
Step 2.
Allow me to have dealers in a range I am willing to travel bid on selling me the car I spec out in step 1. Any participating dealer can submit a bid for what they will sell the car for. Once the bid is accepted I sign digitally on the Internet and all I have to do is go pick it up.
Th
Do you have to pay MSRP? (Score:2)
I don't like buying from a dealer, but I don't like paying MSRP either. If dealing with the dealer means I save a few thousand dollars and not pay MSRP then I'll gladly sit through the upsell process and constantly say NO for an hour or so to various options they try to sell me. I have done that a few times by now and I think I have mastered it.
Test drives and other dealer uses (Score:2)
It's going to be interesting, but there are still a few key functions the local dealer provides
1. A place to test drive the car. I don't know about you, but i'm not spending 30k on a car without test driving it. This is going to require some kind of showroom/test drive area which has to be staffed. Now maybe, the manufacturers like Tesla set these up on their own and get rid of the middle man. Or maybe people get used to not test driving it.
2. Service. Some people have a higher degree of trust for the deal
As a vendor to GM (Score:2)
I can tell you that the only reason the company hasn't imploded is because there are physically not enough seconds in the known universe with which to schedule all the conference calls needed to schedule the conference calls needed to round up the list of people needed to hold conference calls about who knows fucking what about anything. It's a company that in reality runs on its own through sheer inertia. There may not even BE anyone in charge and it wouldn't matter anyway.
Duh. (Score:2)
Their business model relies on being able to screw over the customer on the price, and if the customer is walking through the door with a price that's guaranteed, then they can't screw them over (as hard, I'm sure they'll find a way).
The whole dealership paradigm needs to die. Open "service centers" instead of dealerships for the maintenance and sell over the web. Put all thos
Good! More should (Score:2)
I have yet to find a dealer that I *want* to visit. Every time I've bought a car (four times in four years) I get *argued* with when I come in for a specific feature set.
It's been like this since I bought my first car in 1990.
I want these features offered, some favorite responses.
You can add AC later (In Kansas, where six of the months of the year are >90 degrees)
You don't need four wheel drive
You don't need a high performance option, here, take the four cylinder model.
GPS? No one needs that
Adaptive c
Car dealerships have a legal monopoly (Score:2)
Planet Money did a podcast on this very issue. [npr.org]
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Fat or not, agile or not... it's sure a heck of a lot easier (and cheaper) to buy a GM vehicle than it is a Tesla. GM dealerships are near everywhere (as is their quick fueling options)... not so much with Tesla.
Don't get me wrong... Tesla has a great bit of tech behind them, they are still the new comer and have a great deal of mindshare to win with regards to 'the big three'.
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Fat or not, agile or not... it's sure a heck of a lot easier (and cheaper) to buy a GM vehicle than it is a Tesla. GM dealerships are near everywhere (as is their quick fueling options)... not so much with Tesla.
Yeah... that couldn't be because of political pressure to deny them permits [hybridcars.com], could it? Great argument you got there.
Tesla has a great bit of tech behind them, they are still the new comer and have a great deal of mindshare to win with regards to 'the big three'.
You say that like they're all playing the same game, and under the same rules. You couldn't be more wrong.
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You're 100% right. I'm presently driving a Hyundai Sonata (fantastic car, btw), and am considering either a Hyundai Genesis sedan or a Tesla Model S for my next car. The Genesis is a very nice car, but I'm strongly leaning toward the Tesla.
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GM is functionally incompetent when it comes to the internet. Tesla is new, small, agile, and responsive to the market. GM is still stuck on the couch with its hand in the chip bag, bitching about how easy kids have it these days.
Get off the couch GM, lose 50 pounds, and divorce yourself from the idea that you're owed something. Keep it up and this new generation that seems to have little interest in cars, preferring to bike everywhere and sees no particular status in owning a new car will put your fat ass outta business.
GM will continue to survive until it is forced to compete in real capitalism.
But hey, I'd rather car-shop online, and if that is EVER going to happen, law-makers have a vested interest in the success of GM (an "american" institution). Not so much in Tesla.
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Military-Industrial (Score:4, Interesting)
GM will continue to survive until it is forced to compete in real capitalism.
Never. Going. To. Happen.
GM will compete and be productive, but it will also be propped up by DC for decades beyond its viable life because it is a critical American manufacturer in terms of raw industrial output. And raw industrial output wins almost any prolonged non-WMD war.
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GM's profit last year was $4.53B. What was your company's?
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Re:This just in... (Score:4, Interesting)
But hey, I'd rather car-shop online, and if that is EVER going to happen, law-makers have a vested interest in the success of GM (an "american" institution). Not so much in Tesla.
Everybody car shops on line. They read the specs, pick the model, look at prices, and maybe get a few quotes. Very few people actually order on line. (Women tend to do this more than men, but then women buy more than half the vehicles sold in the US).
I'm not willing to spend 25 or 50k on a strictly on line purchase. If I bought a Tesla I'd do the same on line shopping but I'd STILL go find a showroom/service center. (I'd have to drive to Seattle). I'm Not dumping that kind of money on the net, and having it show up wrong, dented, or what ever with out a local-ish resource.
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There is no way I'm shipping back a car because the
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I'm Not dumping that kind of money on the net, and having it show up wrong, dented, or what ever with out a local-ish resource.
Okay dude, seriously... if you drop 25-50k on a car, do you honestly think the company cares so little for your purchase, when it's so small and desperate for customers, that it's going to just flip you the bird? No. They'll send the goddamned engineers who built that car on the next flight to your house to personally buff and shine that fucker. So please; Don't insult everyone's intelligence here by suggesting that is any kind of a possibility. Amazon provides better customer service than that when I buy a
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Informative)
the last car i bought, 5 or 6 years ago, i considered a GM car. I had just gone through a great experience buying a honda for my wife, then GM came along to show me how miserable a shopping experience could be. There were a couple of options that made me want this car, but then I couldnt figure out how to get them. The salesman just wanted me to pick one off the lot, but they were over priced with options i didnt want, or didnt have what i came for. We looked at how to order the car, but the items all came in bundles... piles of bundles. One might have a sunroof, a certain radio, upgraded rims, and memory seat adjustments. of these I wanted the sunroof. Then you pick a different engine, and it changes the rims and radio and carpet, and you arent sure which set of overlapping choices would end up on the car. No one could figure that out. This happened for every option i wanted.
I then tried to configure on a website. again the options were a joke of complexity. At the end, I got to choose which dealership would contact me with a quote. I could choose 1, and only 1. I wanted to see what competing quotes might get me, but I had to start the entire order process over. This was going to take too much time, so I bought a Nissan.
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I SO badly want to give you a megaton of mod points.
The earlier comments re how GM is out of shape are spot on, too.
I won't buy their products.
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I had the same experience trying to buy an FJ Cruiser. Not every dealer though was a tool bag about it. I just called a bunch telling them exactly what I wanted until I got one that said "sure no problem" most lied or were ignorant that such a thing could be done.
The others all wanted to sell me a automatic, two-wheel drive big-rimmed urban bling cruiser with all the inane extra crap that makes it look "edgy and offroady".
I wanted the 4x4 manual transmission base package (steel rims, no roof rack, no fo
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Except that it's true. The stats back it up. More men and women under the age of 25 have no car and no interest in owning a car than ever before. Car ownership statistics in that age category are on a steady decline.
Whether that's just that mommy and daddy still drive them everywhere and in the future reality will hit them, or not, I cannot say.
Re: This just in... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:This just in... (Score:5, Insightful)
GM is functionally incompetent when it comes to the internet. Tesla is new, small, agile, and responsive to the market.
Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
With any of the other big manufacturers, the combinations are almost endless. Engines, transmissions, rear ends, tires, interior trim, exterior trim, across maybe 10 or 30 models. Its a whole level of scale. They have never been set up to do this on a massive scale. Even the dealers need hand holding when ordering cars. Dealers typically order from a pick list of pre-configured models, of what they think will sell in their area.
When you come kicking tires, if they can't find a car you want on their lot, they might check other dealers, but sooner or later you end up settling for something handy or going for a custom order. And custom orders aren't quick through any of the big dealers. It can take a couple months easily, and if you are near the end of a model year you are SOL. So most people settle for what's on the lot.
Tesla was set up from the beginning to custom build from a SMALL selection of models. Detroit was set up to pre-build bazillions of standard models with a very few custom orders.
Still you have to give them credit for trying. You can already "custom build" by picking package options from most manufacturers. (Not with anywhere near a desirable level of granularity.) But you are going to go through a dealer somewhere along the line.
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Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
Consider what they're up against: GM isn't just on the Fortune 500, or even the Fortune 100. They are in the Fortune, uhh... 5. This is a massive corporation, one deemed by our own government as "too big to fail". They have an extensive network of lobbyists. Do you know how many times Tesla has tried to get stores opened only to be denied by state and federal law -- passed very recently and at the behest of GM? Google "Tesla permit" ... then shit a fat brick. You wonder why they only have a website? It's be
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Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
Actually they have quite a few options; a loaded Tesla costs up to $60k more than a base model. Suede headliner anyone?
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You have the illusion of choice with GM. They have Car X. You can then get a version without alloys, or without sunroof or without AC or without A, B, C. It is advertised to you as a base model Plus extras. When you judge Tesla, you should compare it to a similarly priced GM car, as there's a good possibility that you would be comparing it with one containing all the extras.
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Interesting)
Heh, unless you work for a GM dealership, you have NO idea how bad GM is at IT. Their dealer-side website still does not officially support anything other than IE8. Business reporting relies on ActiveX integration with Excel, and only works properly with Excel 2000 and 2003. It can be made to work under 2007, but they don't support anything higher. Parts of the service-related workbenches still use VBScript. It used to be accessible only over a super-slow satellite link, but they changed that a few years ago, thank god.
To be fair, though, Toyota's web back-end, Dealer Daily, is even worse. IE-only, accessible only through a dedicated T1 which may not be used for anything else (but which you still pay full price for, of course). Blank page under anything other than IE.
Come to think of it, a lot of dealership stuff is locked on IE. Dealertrack (intentionally locks out non-IE browsers), Dealersocket CRM (featured-limited under non-IE browsers). ADP is the biggest supplier of dealership management software in the US and most of their stuff is entirely reliant on IE.
It's a pathetic state of affairs.
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While Tesla has no dealers, they have show rooms. That takes care of half the equation, the whats it look, feel like. Ideally the rental/try before you buy/short term lease is the best next step. I would rather pay $50 to rent a car, for the weekend without pressure than pay thousands to have a person pressuring me to buy (wont be the exact car, but close enough.) Then closing the deal online vs a shake of the hand makes no difference to me. I would love to do that with a house as well (practically wha
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And it would be optimal --- why should we buy instead of lease --- ideally! Then again, some people would argue we should all rent instead of own homes. What is the answer? Only the future can know that!
But you raise great points!
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I have wondered how to make borrowing/sharing more fluid. IE I need access to a truck a couple days a month. I need access to a 5 passenger vehicle 6 times a year or so. I need a daily driver for 20 miles each way trip. I want a camper 3-4 times a year. So I have a quad cab pickup that takes care of all these roles. Much cheaper than trying to maintain insurance, license, tires, etc for multiple vehicles. Difficult to share something like this because people all expect a different level of care, and
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That is what the rental places are for --- I came to your same conclusion a long time ago. We don't need to own everything we ever use.
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I bought a car online, and I am not a broker. No big problem.
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Or maybe you are a market of one.
By the way, what car did you buy online and what price did you pay --- I mean, why withhold details for a true story if you see what I say?
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most things online you buy with a credit card
with cars most people have to apply for a loan tied to the specific car. i'm sure banks will love to pay for cars without the verification procedures now in place at lots of dealers
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i have done nearly this. We decided which car we wanted, but went to a dealer to test drive it and check for comfort , fit , etc. We told the salesman what our plan was, so he just gave us the keys and told us to check it out. A few weeks later we made the decision, had a deal in hand, and went back to the guy that treated us right and told him the deal we had. Let him know that if he could match what we had, or give us reason for something better, then the sale was his, and that we returned only because he
Re:Yep, buy on the web, at full MSRP. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I wouldn't define any business that acts as a legally-protected middleman as "successful" -- actually successful business provide their own value and don't need legal protections because customers are happy to pay them for that value.