Tesla Updates Model S Software As a Precaution Against Unsafe Charging 148
zlives writes "Tesla Motors has maintained that the most recent fire involving one of its Model S electric vehicles isn't the result of a vehicle or battery malfunction, but the company is still addressing the situation with a software fix, according to Green Car Reports. The California-based automaker has added a software function that automatically reduces the charge current by about 25 percent when power from the charging source fluctuates outside of a certain range, Green Car Reports says, citing the Twitter feed from an Apple employee, @ddenboer, who owns a Model S. You can read the text of the update below."
Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:1, Funny)
We all know electricity is dangerous. That's why they have those voltage and shock warnings.
Electric cars are therefore dangerous too.
Thus the only solution is to ban all dangerous electricity.
Re:Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:5, Funny)
If electricity is outlawed, only outlaws and Nikola Tesla will have electricity.
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100% agreed. Most professionals agree that you should need a license to handle anything above 110V.
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It's the current that kills you, but I=V/R
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Stop shuffling on the carpet NOW.
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I have 20,000 volts, and I'm not afraid to use them!
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I have 20,000 volts, and I'm not afraid to use them!
It's over 9000!
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100% agreed. Most professionals agree that you should need a license to handle anything above 110V.
Which must also include the installation and removal of any electrical appliance or apparatus into a receptacle.
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100% agreed. Most professionals agree that you should need a license to handle anything above 110V.
Except that some folk believe 220VAC is safer than 120VAC.
They say higher voltage is more likely to cause muscles to violently twitch
causing you to be thrown away before your internal temperature reaches
125F (for you silly fish).
As others might chime in it is not the voltage it is the voltage combined with current that kills.
Two pads soaked in a conductive salt and a modest number of car batteries in series
will cook you and hardly cause a twitch. It is no longer allowed to do the classic frog
leg tricks in
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Hmm other countries run on 220V with lower Amps and are perfectly fine.
Bonus points if you can explain why the US runs on 120V instead.
Re:Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:4, Informative)
Much of the us infrastructure was built prior to 1900, when end uses we're capped at 110 volts for reliability. Much of the European infrastructure was built after 1900, when the end use limitations were solved. So they did 220 v since it w as more efficient.
First mover problem.
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Your typical house runs on 240V single phase power fed by two hots and a neutral.
Each hot is 120V, but shifted 180* out of phase, so you get 240V measured across both hots. The neutral handles any imbalance in power draw across the two hots.
Your typical household appliance runs on a single hot split phase at 120V and current is returned on the neutral line.
There's really no reason why we couldn't start using 240V directly these days and eliminate the neutral as long as all your appliances are able to run on
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beep beep beep alert!
Re:Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The U.S. has had time to upgrade their infrastructure
Are you kidding? Imagine a power company telling its customers that they're being "upgraded" to 240V service, and therefore all the electrical equipment they have will be trash. Moreover, all wiring, outlets, etc. in their home has to be replaced.
120V is not an "infrastructure problem". The only ramification is a little more copper to wire up a home. 120V comes from the max practical voltage for a carbon filament bulb. Europe, being about 20 years behind the US in large scale electric power distribution, was able to choose a higher voltage, but one that was still limited by the then state-of-the-art in metal filament bulbs. If you were to choose an optimal household wiring voltage today, who knows what it would be. Maybe 350V would be better. Moreover, for large loads where 240V makes a significant difference (e.g. electric range or dryer, CAC, etc.), American homes have 240V lines.
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It's very rare to see a 240V line in an American home - very likely those are 208V lines going to the dryer connection. Most consumer power comes from three-phase lines that are 120V line-to-neutral (nominally, anyway - in some places you're doing good to get 110V), and for a higher voltage you go line-to-line, which is only 208V because the lines are 120 degrees out of phase, not 180. Industrial power is different - there you can get true 240V line-to-neutral (and 415 line-to-line).
Re:Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:4, Informative)
and for a higher voltage you go line-to-line, which is only 208V
That's not how they do it for residential (at least in my neck of the woods - not sure if it's universal). It's split phase [wikipedia.org]. The secondary of the transformer feeding your house is single phase 240V with a center tap connected to neutral (nominally an earth ground). 120V lines are between either side of the secondary and neutral. You get 240V by connecting to both of the "hot" sides of the secondary (i.e. you don't use the center tap).
Re:Tesla can't fix the basic problem (Score:4, Informative)
You never see 208V measured from hot-hot in homes unless you have severe voltage sag - only 240V single phase with 120V measured from each hot to ground.
208V is commonly seen in commercial 3-phase situations, though, where you tap 2 out of 3 hots and each hot is 120V measured to ground.
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No.
Residential wiring in the United States always has the lines 180 degrees out of phase, as is natural when using a singular center-tapped secondary on a transformer to feed a structure. It is always done this way. If you're in the US, just look up sometime to see it for yourself: One transformer on a pole, with just enough wires hanging onto it for a single primary and a center-tapped secondary.
3-phase power (or just two legs of it, as you suggest) is almost never even available in residential neighbor
software fix (Score:2)
Tesla is a danger (Score:1, Troll)
Tesla is a danger to the prostitute and coke habits of the CEOs and members of board of every Established Car Maker in the world. It should therefore be banned.
I am glad to see Texas is leading the way in this regard. Y'all don't Don't Mess With Texas!
http://jalopnik.com/how-texas-absurd-anti-tesla-laws-turn-car-buying-into-1451492195 [jalopnik.com]
Also: yeeeeeeeHAW!
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Tesla is a danger to the prostitute and coke habits of the CEOs and members of board of every Established Car Maker in the world
. . . not if those CEOs buy Tesla: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/12/26/gm-ford-tesla/4208273/ [usatoday.com]
Re:Tesla is a danger (Score:4, Interesting)
They could do a hostile take-over of the company. That would also be something very public and would likely end up with Elon Musk becoming very wealthy indeed and cost literally billions of dollars even at the current market cap.
The honorable thing, and likely the most economically viable approach at the moment, is for these companies to simply double down and really push forward with competing vehicles. Then again, sometimes major companies lack the imagination in terms of how to actually build a competing product.
Re:Tesla is a danger (Score:4, Informative)
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Yeah, making it mandatory to have a middle-man sell you a car is totally bending the rules for him.
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Sure thing El-ron.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1087815_tesla-underground-texas-franchise-rules-make-model-s-owners-skirt-the-law [greencarreports.com]
Texas law dictates that only franchised dealers can sell cars in the state.
Tesla, of course, has no dealers. It markets its cars through company-owned stores or galleries (think: Apple Store) and buyers complete the sale online through company headquarters in California."
The current iron-clad Texas franchise law is the result of years of lobbying by the powerful and well-connected Texas Auto Dealers Association (TADA), founded and run for 30 years by legendary Texas lobbyist Gene Fondren.
In 2012, dealership interests "invested" more than $2.5 million in the Texas legislative elections, according to the the watchdog group Texans For Public Justice. Sixty percent of Texas lawmakers received checks from TADA in 2012.
Two elderly billionaire car dealers, Tom Friedkin and Red McCombs--the latter is also chairman of the former Blackwater security firm--kicked in more than a million dollars between them.
Tesla, meanwhile, made no direct political contributions.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/11/06/tesla-left-out-of-texas-new-electric.html [bizjournals.com]
Texas will start offering $2,500 rebates for electric or compressed natural gas vehicles, according to the Houston Chronicle.
Except, of course, if you're buying a Tesla.
Tesla Motors Inc. (Nasdaq: TSLA), based in Palo Alto, Calif., makes high performance, 100-percent electric cars. Because the cars are sold directly from the manufacturer, rather than from a franchise dealership, they don't qualify for the Texas incentive.
It's the latest blow in the Texas versus Tesla war thatâ(TM)s been brewing ever since the car-maker charged onto the scene with its two-seat roadster in 2008.
Dealerships lobbied hard during the legislative session to prevent Tesla-friendly laws from passing and were successful. The state's franchise laws limit what Tesla salespeople and technicians can do in the state, leaving it up to Tesla owners themselves to offer test drives and spread the word about the car.
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No part of that debunks what I said, you know, and in fact your first citation supports it: Texas has a long-established method for selling cars that requires a dealership presence (long-established as in, the law is a good 30-40 years older than Tesla, and probably at least a decade older than Elon Musk himself). There was no such thing as Tesla when the law was passed, so obviously it couldn't have been passed specifically to hurt a company that didn't exist, contrary to what a certain South African guy w
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FTFY:
The current iron-clad Texas misegenation law is the result of years of lobbying by the powerful and well-connected Texas Apartheid Dealers Association (TADA), founded and run for 30 years by legendary Texas slaver Buford T Justice
your point seems to be if an industry can capture a legislature fair n' square then that's all on the up and up and should changing times force exposure of the resulting outrageous and ridiculous laws to the light of day and consequently people have a PROBLEM with those laws
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Name another consumer industry that requires that you buy through middlemen.
Amazing how you can claim it's Tesla that's looking for the exception when it's the established car industry that, in point of fact, has the exception. Welcome to capitalism, bitch.
Sounds like something Microsoft would say (Score:2, Troll)
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Correct, it's a feature. As I read it, the software was optimized for fast charging, a major customer concern. The patch doubtless increases charging time, but is more forgiving of non-optimal power delivery. A "charges slower / blows up more" selector switch would be nice, but not for public perception.
Secondary link? (Score:5, Informative)
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Ugh, greencarreports.com? The more of their articles I read, the more I believe nobody working there has Clue 1 as to how cars actually work.
Anyone got a link to a source that doesn't suck?
How's that supposed to help? (Score:1)
Assuming the fire was caused by undersized wiring in the circuit and not arcing, this "fix" won't do anything until shit's already glowing red hot.
The *proper* fix would be to redesign the charging circuit to continuously monitor feed impedance.
But then you'd have idiots screaming that their tesla refuses to charge at full rate because their crappy garage wiring is not to code...
Re:How's that supposed to help? (Score:5, Informative)
The *proper* fix would be to redesign the charging circuit to continuously monitor feed impedance.
They already do that, by monitoring the voltage drop when the load is applied. That doesn't cover all cases though, because fires are more often caused by high resistance or intermittent junctions. If you get say a 5% voltage drop because of wire resistance it's probably no big deal because the heat dissipation is spread out over the length of the wiring. A similar drop caused by a poor junction might glow because it's concentrated in one spot. I believe that poor junctions often exhibit short term fluctuations because they're loose and intermittent, and that's the additional thing that this software mod looks for.
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They already do that, by monitoring the voltage drop when the load is applied. That doesn't cover all cases though, because fires are more often caused by high resistance or intermittent junctions. If you get say a 5% voltage drop because of wire resistance it's probably no big deal because the heat dissipation is spread out over the length of the wiring. A similar drop caused by a poor junction might glow because it's concentrated in one spot. I believe that poor junctions often exhibit short term fluctuations because they're loose and intermittent, and that's the additional thing that this software mod looks for.
The real trick is distinguishing short term fluctuations that are caused by a flaky connection from some short term fluctuations caused by other big applicance turning on and off (you know, like an electric range/oven/water-heater/air-conditioner/pool-pump/etc)...
Arc-Fault-Detection may pick up some of the failure modes that lead to these issues, but when you are pulling 240V/40A to charge the car (9600W) It wouldn't take much of an issue to melt down a receptacle. And it won't pick up a high resistance con
Re:How's that supposed to help? (Score:5, Informative)
Tesla actually slowly ramps up the current draw. When I hook my car up to the 80A charger it will slowly ramp up to 40A, pause, then slowly ramp up to 80A (there are two chargers in the car, each rated at 40A). It monitors the change in voltage as it does this.
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Which why that word continuously was in there.
Which would do what? As I mentioned, a resistance that's perfectly acceptable as a wiring drop (especially for a long line) would, if concentrated at a bad junction, cause a fire. You can't tell the difference at the load end. Therefore, in addition to the initial measurement of source resistance, they look for the sort of short term fluctuations that are characteristic of a bad junction.
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I think you missed the point. you can't tell resistance changes from grid voltage fluctuations with simple voltage measurement at constant load.
Let me give you a simplified example with completely made up numbers:
Measure idle line voltage, 240V.
Apply 8kW load, measure again. 230V and pulling 34.8A. So we know our total grid resistance is ~0.29 Ohms (let's just say that's well below whatever is considered allowable transmission+wiring resistance).
Keep the load constant.
Measure voltage. Hey, now it's 220V
Meas
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See? By varying load and the magic of Ohm's law I can now tell voltage changes from resistance changes.
Very cool way of detecting circuit impedance. I guess the trick will be figuring out at what point do you say "hey, the resistance is changing too much, let's just slow down some amount" or "hey, the resistance is changing too much, I better shut down immediately".
This also depends on Tesla being able to accurately control exactly how much current is being pulled as well.
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Except in the luxury market, they recognise that trying for the upsell is a bunch of annoying bullshit, and that their customers are paying more to avoid it. Though certainly the "free" inspection is a very good plan. That said, they possibly want to avoid the liability for it if it goes wrong (not very luxury of them).
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That said, they possibly want to avoid the liability for it if it goes wrong (not very luxury of them).
Let the customer pick their preferred licensed electrician and get the payment refunded by bringing the receipt when buying the car or when it is coming in for the first service.
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I'm surprised that people buying an electric car aren't getting a new circuit installed for charging.
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What's $5,000 extra dollars?
About what you might pay for fuel over 4 years at 35 MPG.
Or, if you prefer, approximately the sales tax on a base model Tesla S.
Counter question: who wants their garage to catch fire to save $5000?
Thanks, I was waiting for this. (Score:3)
The California-based automaker has added a software function that automatically reduces the charge current by about 25 percent when power from the charging source fluctuates outside of a certain range,
When I bought my model S, Tesla advised me against driving around with a wind mill on the roof because "it would cause too much fluctuations". Well, I guess I am safe to do so now.
DYI electrics... (Score:3)
Now many home improvements can be a DYI project, but wiring a 240V-50A line is NOT one of those things.
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DYI? Do Yourself It?
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Don't YOLO It
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Do Yourself In?
On a more serious note, a 50A circuit is not rocket surgery if you use copper.
But for fucks sake don't do alucore unless you know what you are doing and have the proper terminations and tools.
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I paid an electrician to install mine, though in my case I had a 100A circuit run and my main panel replaced and a new meter installed. He ran alucore for the long run with special termination lugs to splice to 2 gauge copper in the garage.
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Copper clad aluminum cable [wikipedia.org]
Less oxidation problems than straight alu, but still lots of "fun" thanks to thermal expansion and creep.
Do it to code and get it inspected. (Score:4, Insightful)
Now many home improvements can be a DYI project, but wiring a 240V-50A line is NOT one of those things.
The HELL it's not. I did the wiring on my home improvement - including upgrading the drop to 200A service - and (unlike my uncle) I'm not a licensed electrician or electrical contractor.
Here's the drill:
- Read up on the subject. Use several sources. One should be the electrical code itself.
- Do some initial planning, then talk to your local code inspectors BEFORE you TAKE OUT THE building permit and start the project, and adjust the plans accordingly.
- Do it WITH a building permit and inspections. (The fee for the permit pays for the inspectors!)
- Try to get it right, or as right as possible, the first time. Inspectors don't like to find a bunch of problems to be repaired. (It makes them worry that there are more they might have missed.) Fix whatever they spot, don't argue about it. Answer all their questions and be helpful.
- DON'T use aluminum wire, EVER! Use copper and pay the extra price. (Getting aluminum wiring right is hard, requires special tools, and you can't really tell if you goofed. If you get it wrong, it wil burn you down in a year or a decade.)
- When the code offers you options, go for the better approach, rather than the corner-cutting way.
- Look for the UL label (or your country's equivalent) - on EVERYTHING you use.
Things to remember about the electrical code:
- The national code is a model. Some cities adopt it verbatim, some with changes, a few roll their own. But the REAL code is the way your inspector interprets it.
- Be nice and helpful with the inspector. Don't argue. (Feel free to ask what you misunderstood about the code, what you're doing wrong, what the purpose of some fine point is. But don't take TOO much of his time.) He has the authority to shut down your project. Respect that.
- If you DON'T do it to code, and with a permit and inspections in locations that require it (almost all of 'em), and your house then burns down (even if your work didn't start the fire), your fire insurance can pay you nothing (and keep all the premiums you paid over the years, too.)
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Things to remember about the electrical code:
Getting an actual copy is harder than it sounds. In my jurisdiction the PDF is $175, if you want the 'handbook' that explains it laymans terms, and the charts and calculators... the package is $325.
I'm better off hiring a contractor unless I plan to do a lo of DIY electrical projects... just on that alone.
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Good advice, but can ask what your goal is? Clearly it isn't saving money or your valuable time, so are you doing it just for enjoyment? Doesn't it affect your home insurance?
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and a case of AFTERS beer can do wonders if you have an electrician friend.
or you might find one that will do the job for the same amount of money (YMMV)
The root problem - Crappy wiring and stupid users (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a good thing.
I got the 100Amp High ower Wall Charger with mine, and this puppy needs some serious juice!
When i got the car, i used my old "Welder" outlet in the garage, which supposedly was rated for 30 Amps. Of course noone ever was drawing full load from this for long periods of time before people had EVs.
Even my 30A welder only pulls PEAK 30 amp, and not more than a few minutes at a time.
Once i plugged in the Tesla and charging at 30A, the plug got VERY hot, to the point where i was uncomfortable with it, and i manually throttled it back to 18A.
(My default the car will charge at 80% of the rated capacity, so a 30A outlet would charge at 26A)
I could imagine that if left unattended, and not watched over by a curious EE nerd, this would have ended badly.
For the 100A charger i ran 2Gauge wire (That's about as thick as your average garden hose!)
And even the 2Gauge get's noticeably warm at 80A sustained charging.
In the meantime i have been to many friends and family where i "plugged in" (or helped them install their own chargers) and I've seen some shoddy wiring in garages!
Most people use a Dryer outlet "rated" for 30A, but really only good for ~15.
And then for good measure they throw in a 40A wall plate connector.
The tesla charger only recognizes the plug, and - assumes if there is a 40A plug it can suck 40A out of it.
When that has been DIY installed on top of a 20A wiring..... bzzzz we have a problem!
So, hopefully the continuous line voltage monitoring will help a bit, and protect people from their own shitty wiring!
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I wonder how well the charger would handle a 120VAC, 50 amp circuit. This has two legs that give 50 amps each and 120VAC to neutral... or the legs can be used directly for 240VAC. This circuit is a fairly common one for RVs.
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The Tesla charging cord that comes with the car comes with a NEMA 14-50 adapter so the car can charge at most RV hookups. The neutral line is not hooked up so it just uses 240v/40A. It will only draw 80% of the rated current since continuous usage is supposed to be limited to 80% of capacity in the US.
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This is actually one of the "Default" Plugs that come with the mobile charger: NEMA 6-50 (http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/nema-6-50)
The mobile charger uses the two 120 legs for a 240V charge voltage.
Unfortunately this is often "retro-fitted" over a 30A dryer outlet, or people use stupid stuff like "dryer Outlet Adapters": https://www.google.com/search?q=dryer+outlet+adapter [google.com]
THAT's where the problems start.
Unfortunately there is no good way for a car to recognize the hacked, butchered and abused wiring
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On RV related websites, "dryer receptacles" are a chief cause of magic smoke loss in people's rigs. That, or a rushjob done by an electrician who just had both legs wired up instead of one leg and neutral. Even a master electrician might end up things wrong, so it can't hurt to pull out the multimeter and check oneself.
One of the few ways RV-ers have to reliably tell is if they have a portable EMS like from Progressive or another brand. It is smart enough to notice undervoltage or overvoltage and safely
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Either way I wouldn't recommend a non-electrician to do this without a building permit. If there was
Re:The root problem - Crappy wiring and stupid use (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't an issue specific to Tesla vehicles, but it is something that any electric vehicle owner should be aware of and an issue in general for home electrical distribution systems.
The first house I lived in when I got married had the entire house on a single 20 amp circuit (supposedly installed by a professional, but I'm not sure which decade with the tar & cotton wiring I ended up spotting as I went through the attic), and the house I grew up in was only rated with the fuse box for 40 amps (again the whole house, but there were multiple circuits with that house). Even the house I live in at the moment is only rated for a maximum of 100 amps, and I'm not really sure how close to that limit I care to push the issue even though the wiring gauge does look sufficient for those power requirements. I know some new home construction can be rated for as high as 200 amps or more, but it is something to be discussing with contractors when the house is being built currently in terms of planning for potential needs of future power needs. IMHO it really needs to be added into the NEC (National Electrical Code) as assuming something like a stead base power load of 40 amps in a standard socket should be found in a garage or something like that.
That doesn't even get into the neighborhood power distribution systems that would need to be updated in a serious manner if electric vehicles became quite common. It most definitely will become a major issue for electric utility companies in the future if these vehicles become popular.
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I doubt that power distribution would have to be updated in a "serious" manner if electric cars become common. They will no doubt need updating, as they always do, since people's needs will change over time. Even if electric cars become popular the typical lifetime of a passenger car is something like ten years in the USA. I doubt electric cars becoming "popular" would mean every car is replaced by electric. Even if they were it'd be ten years for the change to happen.
The other thought that came to mind
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Portugal is different than the USA. You have more mountains and see which allow for more reliable wind and more prime places for hydro. Out here a typical windmill will run for 16% of the time. That means to get the same energy in a year as a gigawatt coal plant we'd have to put up 6 gigawatts of wind power, and still have to build a gigawatt peak power plant for when the wind does not blow.
I've seen videos of experts in the field explain why we cannot rely on wind and solar beyond a certain point in the
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Systems Evaluation=Enhanced Safety. (Score:1)
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EV charging is inherently either a dumb load or an algorithmic ADAPTIVE& Smart- citizen of the grid.
The problem is to be an "algorithmic ADAPTIVE& Smart- citizen of the grid." requries information the charger simply doesn't have. There are a handful of clues, frequency tells you about total load vs generation on the grid as a whole but tells you nothing about local conditions. Volt drop may give you some clue as to how stressed the local system is but it won't tell you about a cable that is short but thin coming up towards it's maximum load and it's very likely to give false positives (where the car t
So... OTA (Score:2)
So is this an OTA update, or does Tesla send owners some sort of flash drive to do the update with? TFA fails to say.
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Tesla software updates are OTA, yes.
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Yes. I was amazed at how fast this came out. I was notified that the OTA update was downloaded within a couple of days of the incident that sparked this. I have had a number of OTA updates, many of which added new features and fixed bugs.
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Tesla software updates are OTA, yes.
OK, now we have that established...
Am I the only one who has serious reservations about buying a car (read: 1.5 tons of rolling steel death) that can be 'updated,' remotely, without the owner's explicit permission?
Please tell me that the vehicle at least has to be stationary before the updates start a-flowin'.
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Early production cars have received several software updates already. (My car arrived in late February with version 4.2). I was looking forward to my first update--if for no other reason than to experience first-hand another step into the future of car ownership.
Sure enough, just five weeks after taking delivery, I got in the car one morning last week to find a message on the touchscreen: software update v4.3 was available.
The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning. The car needs to be parked and turned off for about two hours to complete the wireless download, which uses the 3G cellphone network.
So, uh, yeah, you get ASKED if you want to update, and the car needs parked and turned off (standby).
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Early production cars have received several software updates already. (My car arrived in late February with version 4.2). I was looking forward to my first update--if for no other reason than to experience first-hand another step into the future of car ownership.
Sure enough, just five weeks after taking delivery, I got in the car one morning last week to find a message on the touchscreen: software update v4.3 was available.
The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning. The car needs to be parked and turned off for about two hours to complete the wireless download, which uses the 3G cellphone network.
So, uh, yeah, you get ASKED if you want to update, and the car needs parked and turned off (standby).
Nice to know Tesla's not going to be doing firmware updates while you're hauling ass down the freeway, but nothing in that story indicates that installing the updates are optional. "The message suggested I schedule the update for 2 am the next morning" doesn't mean he had a choice in whether or not it was installed, but rather when.
My two real issues with this:
- If Tesla can send info to your car wirelessly, then it stands to reason they can receive information from it as well. Backseat drivers suck.
- If Te
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In a worst-case scenario, an attacker pushes the "check for updates" bit after they've stolen the Tesla server in DNS, and bricks a bunch of cars.
If that's what's keeping you from electric, I guess you're going to have to stay driving gas.
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In a worst-case scenario, an attacker pushes the "check for updates" bit after they've stolen the Tesla server in DNS, and bricks a bunch of cars.
That's a bad-case scenario, but I wouldn't call it 'worst.'
Imagine someone compromising the whole system, and, say, cycling the batteries until they overhead and rupture. Or over-riding the braking system and locking the throttle at 100%.
On every single Tesla on the planet, simultaneously.
If that's what's keeping you from electric, I guess you're going to have to stay driving gas.
It's probably going to keep me in older vehicles; even gas car makers are starting to get into the whole 'let's put shitloads of remotely-accessible software in these things' mentality.
No, what's keeping me out of electric
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Brings to mind the apple update recently which reversed the meaning of mouse wheel clicks.
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The Tesla vehicles also come equipped with a USB port (more than one if I"m not mistaken).... assuming that for some reason you don't have access to a mobile cell phone tower or something like that. I don't think it is standard for Tesla to mail out physical thumb drives or anything like that, but I'm sure customer support can help get the necessary software from a variety of distribution systems.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't (Score:5, Insightful)
So the basic idea is that if your power source is terrible (i.e. shoddy wiring in your home), then pulling too much through it could expose that problem via a fire. That isn't a problem with the car, but rather a problem with the substandard wiring. If Tesla merely responds with "it isn't us and isn't our problem", we'll invariably hear of more house fires and the Model S will be blamed.
So they develop a change that detects potentially substandard wiring from the symptom of poor quality power entering the vehicle. It then cuts the draw significantly in that case to reduce the risk of said substandard wiring causing a fire (notice the wiring would still be at fault). Suddenly, because Tesla has released a "fix", their car must have been at fault all along!
This is an absurd level of idiocy and quite frankly, if it continues and eventually sinks Tesla, then we deserve to choke to death on the smog of our own stupidity's making. It's really remarkable how terribly dumb the top of the bell curve is. All evidence points directly toward the future envisioned in the film Idiocracy.
This will come back to bite them (Score:3)
It is exactly the sort of rushed software hack which results in subsequent bug reports.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that Tesla can't reproduce the conditions which some of these cars are charged under, so they are making assumptions about the way the mains cables work. The 25% is guess work.
makes me want to own a Tesla... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
"This patch enhances the charging software to further protect your house wiring."
Ensures a cool and enjoyable energy consumption experience.
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"This patch enhances the charging software to further protect your house wiring."
Ensures a cool and enjoyable energy consumption experience.
"Share and enjoy."
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The Tesla vehicle isn't burning down your garage; your terrible wiring is.
Incorrect - the terrible wiring was fine until a Tesla was plugged into it. So, obviously, the wiring alone is not the problem, the problem is the combination of the two.
I'd say the blame is probably closer to 60/40 on the wiring side.
Re: (Score:3)
the terrible wiring was fine until a Tesla was plugged into it
The terrible wiring was fine only because nobody had been using it at rated capacity. And no, you shouldn't have to derate a 50A line. 50A means 50A. NEC is conservative, and if followed correctly you could in practice draw more than 50A (though I certainly don't recommend it). Moreover, Tesla already had one mechanism in place to prevent this sort of thing (cutting back the current if there was excessive voltage drop), and this is simply adding another. At what point do you start blaming the wiring for not
Re: (Score:2)
Tell you what, I'll call it 60% wiring, 20% user error, and 20% manufacturer's error.
IMO, Blameless parties do not need to issue software updates to fix stuff.
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This isn't market where you get to haggle. This is about facts, and they don't leave any room for guessing.
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This isn't market where you get to haggle.
Are you kidding? This is exactly the market you haggle in! At least, it is if you're a civil litigation lawyer.
This is about facts, and they don't leave any room for guessing.
OK, the fact is Telsa issued a software fix.
You don't issue software fixes unless you think something is broken, right?
Re: (Score:2)
You know, insults are the vestige of the simple-minded.
Intelligent people make rational arguments. All you've done here is call names.
Yea, one person in this discussion is making themselves look stupid, alright, but it isn't me.
P.S. If you're going to be a child, flinging about playground jabs because you don't have anything valid or on-topic to say, I'm going to ignore you.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"This light switch caused my house to explode!"
"Huh?"
"Well, there also was that gas leak, but that wasn't a problem until I flipped that switch."
Re:makes me want to own a Tesla... (Score:5, Insightful)
don;t meet his requirements.
His requirements? Try the National Electrical Code requirements, which are legally required by most state and local building codes. A 50A line that can't deliver 50A is in violation, and shoddy wiring like that is a serious hazard, regardless of whether you charge a Tesla with it.
Bah (Score:2)
Fortunately the explodeViolently flag has managed to stay off in most cases so far...
Re: (Score:2)
Someone included the flag at some point because they thought catching on fire was something the user might occasionally want.
Hopefully it came with a user warning like "do not use if arson is illegal in your area".
Re: (Score:1)
Spoken with all the intelligence, insight acumen and sincerity of a bought-and-paid-for sock puppet employed by a major PR firm.
Don't you have another issue you're supposed to be spamming online forums with industry speak for ?
Better get working down today's list or you're going to be out of a job pretty soon, bitch.
Re: (Score:1)
Shut up.
Lets beat on companies that improve their products (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Huh... (Score:5, Interesting)
So they 'fixed' something that wasn't even the problem he's sure because the car logs said so...
Sounds like some bullshit and some backpedaling.
His ego is going to kill tesla...
Could be, but having been on the receiving end of complaints for software-driven hardware, an equally likely scenario is this:
They got a complaint about their car catching fire, and afraid of the PR nightmare this could cause, the top engineers were put on the case to find the problem as quickly as possible and fix it. Meanwhile, someone else was put on gathering all the additional information to feed to engineers/press/etc.
In their digging, the engineers discovered that the charging circuit wasn't really all that robust, and that this COULD cause a charging issue, even if it didn't in this case. With the work and testing already done, they rolled out a firmware update to test if this could be the scenario that caused the fire. The logs then confirmed that this issue wasn't the case, but they had a fully tested firmware update that mitigated other potential charging issues, so they released it instead of just keeping it to themselves.
This kind of thing happens all the time. Although I have also experienced situations where the releasing never happened, as the initial complaint was private and the company never wanted to admit publicly that there was an issue -- in this case, the "fix" was rolled into the next update that was actually supposed to do something else -- it came under "various minor feature improvements" IIRC.
Re: (Score:1)