PC Makers Plan Rebellion Against Microsoft At CES 564
Velcroman1 writes "Fearing rapidly plummeting sales of traditional laptops and desktop computers — which fell by another 10 percent or so in 2013 — manufacturers are planning a revolt against Microsoft and the Windows operating system, analysts say. At the 2014 CES in Las Vegas, multiple computer makers will unveil systems that simultaneously run two different operating systems, both Windows and the Android OS that powers many of the world's tablets and smartphones, two different analysts said recently. The new devices will be called 'PC Plus' machines, explained analyst Tim Bajarin. 'A PC Plus machine will run Windows 8.1 but will also run Android apps as well,' Bajarin wrote. Another analyst put the threat to Windows bluntly: 'This should scare the heck out of Microsoft.'"
Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
Who the fuck wants this? Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably won't be able to disable SecureBoot. That's what makes it better!
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Informative)
Probably won't be able to disable SecureBoot. That's what makes it better!
If it is a certified for Windows 8 x86 machine then it MUST be possible to disable SecureBoot. But you probably already knew that.
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Who the fuck wants this? Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?
Because choice.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Who the fuck wants this?
Google, I'm guessing. It's the next step after Chromebooks, I'd bet the one after this will be pure Android desktops.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Ugh (Score:3)
Oh, Steve Ballmer... You're the king of semantics. That's so hot. When I think about you I touch my screen. Guess which side has a sweaty photo of you in it? Hint: both. Call me!
Steve Bennett (Score:3)
Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Interesting)
Any movement away from a Microsoft dominated software market is probably a step in the right direction. As for the question of whether anyone will use these features, I will withhold judgment until I can actually see them.
Re: (Score:3)
Any movement away from a Microsoft dominated software market is probably a step in the right direction.
Sure, but that's not what's happening; RTFS:
unveil systems that simultaneously run two different operating systems, both Windows and the Android OS
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's just it. Mobile devices have already sent the message loud and clear. A PC that still pays the Windows tax? Not so scary.
I find Android even more annoying than Metro on a real KVM setup - I can't imagine using it unless some app I really needed was Android-only (and I've yet to find an app I cared that much about). Android just isn't a viable threat on a desktop.
Mobile computing is an entirely different landscape, of course, and clearly it finally hit home with MS that they weren't winning there with their past strategy, as their big reorg seems focused on fixing that - for sure it will at least change it.
You know, I like C# and Visual Studio - if I could easily write code that would run across not just all the Windows platforms, but Android and IOS too - and with a UI that looks native on each platform, like QT does - that would be a wonderful thing.
Come to think of it, I wonder whether there a nice C#/QT interface yet that works well in Mono - anyone know? Or have another good cross-platform UI approach using Mono? Xamarin seems proud of what they have - anyone know?
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:4, Informative)
Doesn't work. Microsoft doesn't allow the full support in Mono... Little things would work, but the more extensive support just isn't there.
And it is under constant thread from Microsoft for lawsuits.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That's just FUD, and FUD that hurts Mono for no good reason. I know there are plenty of oldschool /.ers who have never forgiven Microsoft for Windows95, but that's long past and Mono is a good project.
The interesting question is: what's the right toolchain for good cross-platform UI support? A see a variety of open source QT bindings for C/Mono that should work just fine in Android, plus the commercial solution above, but does anyone have first-hand experience?
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Informative)
Mono cannot allow an easy path to allow code written for .NET to run on Linux when it does not support major parts of .NET, the presentation foundation. This severely limits portability as well as functionality for developers. Few developers will care about Mono as a result.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Measured by time or money, I have yet to find anything that even comes close to C#, Mono, and Xamarin for doing cross platform work. If you want code that runs well on Windows, OSX, Linux, iOS, Android, and probably even Windows Phone (although never done any windows phone tbh) nothing else even comes close.
I've seen the Xamarin generated android code (mono-touch) run faster than native java (which is usually a fair comparison due to how similar c# is to java), and the exact same code run only slightly slo
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:4, Interesting)
Now as for the QT comparison that's a slightly different beast. Most of the time (almost all the time in mobile) you're going to want to spend some time retouching your UI to match the base os' way of doing things.
This raises the question - does your Mono UI look different on these platforms (in which case, why do you care about retouching your Qt UIs) or does it look the same .NET-based UI (in which case, why do you care about retouching your Qt UIs) or do you just not care about retouching your Mono UIs and are trying to spread a little FUD about how perfect it is compared to an alternative cross-platform toolkit?
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't necessarily better. For example, you have a lot of system level software under Windows that you can't even sell for iOS and on Chromebooks. And on Android, your users need root before using them, which very few people have. Not to mention the 30% cut of all revenue on both the big mobile stores. In people's rush to hate MS, everyone's promoting even more restrictive software and data being stored in the cloud which users have no control over.
Linus says it best: Microsoft hatred is a disease
http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus_Microsoft_Hatred_is_a_Disease [osnews.com]
I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.
There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."
As long as we're quoting Linus (Score:5, Interesting)
Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. - Linus Torvalds
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Google's dirty tactics include using and selling personal information on end users. They also include purchasing interesting and/or rival companies at fair prices, as opposed to just running rivals out of business. Google has some evil ways, but nothing to compare to Microsoft's history.
Apple has their pretty little walled garden, but they don't mess with the unwashed masses outside that garden. They work pretty aggressively to protect the stuff inside that garden, but they've never actively worked to undermine companies and OS's that stay well outside of that garden.
Microsoft, on the other hand, should have been broken up into multiple companies long ago when the government was accusing them of monopoly abuse. The behemoth has done a lot of harm in the computing world. It has done some good, but not nearly so much real good as some people think.
Personally, I still resent the AARD code that contributed to the collapse of DRDOS. DRDOS was superior to most other DOS operating systems in some ways - among others, it was the first to achieve 32 bit disk access. With a level playing field, I'm pretty certain that DRDOS would have remained in the game, and contributed much more to computer science. No one can possibly say where computing might be today, had Microsoft not worked hard to shut other players out of the field. Android may never have happened for instance - something much better may have been developed, and much sooner instead. Certainly, Linux would have advanced faster if there had been more active support from hardware vendors.
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Made which founders of which companies very rich? I'd have to do some searching, but I believe that Bill Gates bought Windows for mere hundreds of dollars.
There are very good reasons that Microsoft has lost litigation multiple times to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
I have already granted that Google does some evil shit. I rather like Google, but I'm not blind to the bad stuff they do. Microsoft, on the other hand, is guilty of just about every crime of which a business can be guilty of, short of murder. Gates is ruthless, and the company he founded shares that characteristic.
That AARD code I mentioned above - have you ever looked at it? A few lines that instruct Microsoft software to check for the underlying operating system on which it is to be installed. If any system fails to report that it is a Microsoft system, the software simply refuses to install. There was no good reason for that - it was just anti-competitive bullshit.
Perspective. I repeat part of what I stated above. Microsoft has done more to hinder computer science than either Google or Apple. I mean, they have actively blocked advancement in many lines of research. There are no really "clean" players up there in the stratosphere, but Microsoft is just plain dirty.
I will note that Google has pulled out of China. It seems that whatever evil Google has committed, they might have a conscience. Can you make any such claim for Microsoft? Please don't tell me about the Gates Foundation. I view that nonsense the same as I view the pyramids. AFTER have destroyed dozens of companies and thousands of careers, Gates wants to achieve some kind of immortality with his "charitable works". Screw Gates. I have more respect for Jobs, who remained a selfish egomaniac until his dying day. I have far more respect for those goofy kids who founded Google. They screw up, but they are far better people than Gates or Jobs, IMHO.
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
"A few dodgy business practices"
There are pages and pages of those practices.
"Netscape and DRDOS lost out, big fucking whoop."
Embrace, extend, extinguish. Every end user on the planet has lost out due to Microsoft's greed. Netscape and Digital Research are only two names at the beginning of a long, long, LONG list.
"They didn't kill anyone,"
I already stated as much. Perhaps it is you who needs to get a grip.
Tell us - what is YOUR interest in Microsoft?
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny you should mention Internet Explorer. Where did that come from, anyway? It started life with the name of Mosaic, licensed by Spyglass. It didn't belong to Microsoft at all. But, MS liked it, and offered Spyglass a share of revenues if they would allow MS to distribute and use it with Windows.
"Spyglass, which licensed its browser to Microsoft in return for a percentage of each sale; Microsoft turned the browser into Internet Explorer and bundled it with Windows, giving it away to gain market share but effectively destroying any chance of Spyglass making money from the deal they had signed with Microsoft; Spyglass sued for deception and won a $8 million settlement.[62]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
That late beta nonsense doesn't cut it. I personally tried to install Win 3.11 on top of non-Microsoft OS's - and always, it failed. Since I was not on the mailing list during Windows development, it's hard to believe that what I had in my hands was a "late beta".
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:4, Interesting)
A reference way back in the early '90's would have been good. It's going to be 2014 next week. I don't even have all those installation disks anymore. At this date, I can't remember exactly which versions of which operating systems I used. I variously used PC-DOS, TRS-DOS, DR-DOS, IBM-DOS, and MS-DOS. On everything except MS-DOS, I got a message telling me that Windows could only be installed on MS-DOS. And, in fact, I later got that message when I attempted to install Windows on MS-DOS 6.22. I did get Windows working on 6.22, but initially it didn't want to install.
I did recover (from an estate sale) various versions of Windows preceding 3.1 which were happy to install on all of the above. As I recall, I had Windows versions 1.2 and 2.6, and a partial set of 2.8 or 2.9 but I won't swear to those version numbers now.
What is certain, and what has been documented, is that MS did put that AARD code into it's products. If you've actually read up on it, you'll realize that Win3.1 is not the ONLY place it showed up. Win3.1 is the only place where I personally encountered it.
Re: (Score:3)
The reason it didn't is your premise is wrong.
I for instance am writing this using Linux, and have no windows (except for a VM that has been offline for years) for the last 12 years.
I am a Linux professional and want nothing to do with Windows or Apple things.
But even some companies that migrated their users to Linux had lots of complaints, users find issue with a button with a different name, a tiny difference in behavior from MS Office to Open Office.
Plus 95% of users never hearf of Linux until their empl
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
What are your alternatives if every alternative OS is a shitty alternative OS ? Dont run software ?
Last time i looked, there really are not that many OSes around that simultaneously a) do something useful b) avoid being shitty.
A couple of open source RTOSes sort of fit the bill, but they dont run any applications apart from the one you embed in them.
Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good. (Score:5, Insightful)
I share that sentiment. To bad that it's happening about 20 years later than it should have. I have no sympathy for struggling PC makers. All of the top dogs in the industry cooperated for a couple decades in feeding that behemoth known as Microsoft. They have been happily paying that Microsoft Tax, and passing the cost on to the end users. I would be perfectly happy to see some of those big dogs go bankrupt. Smaller companies that have struggled to supply alternate OS's and no-OS machines may finally get a well deserved break here.
Like yourself, I'll withhold judgement. When I'm ready to purchase new hardware, if I can buy good hardware and install Linux without a problem, I'll be quite happy. If it proves difficult to install Linux, I'll be less happy. My happiness will decrease with the amount of difficulty involved.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sure this really has Microsoft quaking in their booties.
It's simultaneous, not dual boot (Score:4, Informative)
I take it you thought these devices are dual boot, Windows OR Android. They are not. Instead, the run BOTH simultaneously, so it runs Android and Windows applications on the same screen. I started to say the same desktop, but of course Microsoft has thrown out the desktop metaphor in a return to Windows 3.1 style single-tasking.
Why? Developer Developers Developers. And Games. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?
Because there are a LOT of Android developers now, who would be very tempted to write for this...
But also from the user side, presumably you could play Android games, buying them at Android prices instead of Windows prices (or playing them for free, the dark unfortunate secret of Android).
Re: (Score:2)
Android would make for a decent lightweight platform, but one of the big advantages of the desktop are workflows. Pop a screenshot of one program, switch to Word to paste it, grab some results from Excel, fetch a picture from DropBox, crop it in Photoshop, then make a PDF and attach it, as well as another picture to an E-mail. This is doable on iOS and Android, but the workflow switching is a lot harder than on a multitasking, multi-window OS like Windows, OS X, Linux, AIX, *BSD, etc.
What would be interes
Re:Why? Developer Developers Developers. And Games (Score:4, Insightful)
You can do much the same on basically any non-lockdown Android system; but there tends not to be much point. Getting access to pure linux applications from the Android environment is a bit awkward (X servers and terminal clients exist; but are generally aimed at talking to external hosts) and any android-related stuff (contacts, SMS, etc.) is in a more or less opaque blob as far as the linux userland is concerned(again, it can be done, and various Android tweaker/power-user modding does commonly involve hitting the Android system from the perspective of the root user on the linux system it lives on; but there is essentially zero useful integration).
Especially if you have a recent x86 to work with, I can't imagine why you would choose android as the 'lightweight VM for specific tasks' OS. VMs are absurdly useful; but android is a pretty mediocre experience on anything not designed as touchscreen hardware, usually without a keyboard or mouse.
Re: (Score:3)
playing them for free, the dark unfortunate secret of Android
Which used to be the dark unfortunate secret of DOS and Windows' success.
Re: (Score:3)
Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?
Because there are a LOT of Android developers now, who would be very tempted to write for this...
But also from the user side, presumably you could play Android games, buying them at Android prices instead of Windows prices (or playing them for free, the dark unfortunate secret of Android).
And there are a few hardware-assisted breakthroughs thanks to a freshly designed Android mentality. We probably never stopped to think 10 years ago how much shareware, paid or even free software suffered due to the *fragmentation* presented by wintel PC *diversity*
I just realized this: un-needed smartphone peripherals starting with the iPhone and Android era gave birth to a multimedia 2.0... different from the nineties' version in that there are no more drivers, sound cards, CD roms, modems, cameras and mic
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Re:Ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe Steve Elop returned to Microsoft and told them that they are on a "burning platform" with Windows 8?
That schtick of his worked wonders at Nokia . . .
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
I, for one.. I'm running Slackware now since Windows 8 pissed me off over and over. Slackware isn't great either - but at least it's something worth learning. I don't see Microsoft continuing being the only dominant player in the future.
Windows 8 has got to be the main reason laptop and PC sales have plummeted. Nobody likes the fucking interface on a PC and nobody wants to buy a new PC that forcefeeds you Windows 8 when they already have Windows 7.
Windows 8 is an asshole operating system. It was designed by a guy that decided to be an asshole and only have asshole programmers join him. It was designed so that you can only multitask when Windows 8 decides you can multitask. Did you launch 'full screen' Internet Explorer? You did? Ha! There's no way to move it back to a window. Because fuck you! Guess what? Here's a start menu. And, it only launches bullshit by default. Oh, you have a PC? We will go ahead and optimize it for a tablet anyway. Oh, you don't have a touchscreen monitor? We'll continue to act like you have a touchscreen. You have a sound card issue? You and like 10,000 other people? We will continue to act like you don't know how to update the drivers for the sound card and we will continue to act like it's your fault. Windows 8 crashed on you? We will continue to act like it never crashes and is the most stable piece of software marvel ever.
Fuck Windows 8. I've never had a piece of software piss me off more so quickly.. and I deal with old industrial software and IT for my career. I would love to see a revolt.
And, if you're a programmer for Windows 8, fuck you too.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
I completely agree. Got a new netbook with Win8 and tried to make it dual-boot with Linux. After that proved to be difficult, I had a look at Win8 and decided it was really not worth my time to try to keep it. The netbook now runs Linux only and works nicely as Internet terminal and media-player, and in addition I can use it as a proper Linux machine as well. There is absolutely no need for Windows anymore, except for Gaming (holding my thumbs that Valve will be able to make a dent in that) and editing MS Office documents.
CrossOver (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
There is absolutely no need for Windows anymore, except for Gaming and editing MS Office documents.
Or making money using Photoshop, Illustrator, Maya, Inventor, Autocad, Altium, VS, Vegas, etc...
There are uses for computers other than browsing the internet, watching movies and playing games.
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 8 has got to be the main reason laptop and PC sales have plummeted
While I'm no lover of Windows OS's (I not a big user, Linux has been my staple for 10 - 15 years) I'm not convinced it is the major cause for the drop in desktop sales. I see other reason as being greater contributors.
1) A good proportion (I speculate) of former PC sales were to people who used the PC to "consume", being media, Internet, email, games and whatnot - these PC are obviously overkill and cumbersome for the task (locked to the desk). The rise of tablets and mobile devices that are plenty capable of performing this role has caused this echelon of users to dump their PCs and migrate to their phone or tablet (a better and more convenient tool for that job (consumption) IMO).
2) There is another echelon of users who are not 'power users' their 5 year old PC is just fine for the tasks they perform. PC's are very over powered for a good lot of users, as long as their machine boots and they can get to their browser then their PC is still good enough - no need to replace. This may have been the case for many years so I expect this has less influence than (1).
But I don't believe people are as fussy about their OS as the vocal ones would suggest - most are happy if their browser will open.
I am by no means giving a vote for or against Windows 8 (or any OS) I don't have strong feelings either way. But I strongly doubt that it's a major contributor (perhaps a minor one).
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Suspend (Score:3)
Having an OS that is ready to go in under 6 seconds is pretty damned handy.
Any OS can do that as long as your hardware supports suspend. My laptop, for instance, runs Xubuntu. I open the lid, and in four seconds I'm staring at the password prompt.
Re: (Score:3)
Absolutely nobody wants this. It will die a horrible horrible death. You can already buy "Android laptops" from china on ebay and other places.. They are crap, just like the first wave of Android tablets were.
Chromebooks are getting a LOT of traction, but pc makers like HP and DELL do not like the idea of a clean OS they cant clutter with a ton of crap. So they will try another way.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, games was the last domain that kept me from ditching Windows (as they have evolved), so SteamOS is a gift from heaven, especially in the direction it is going. Microsoft should be scared to do more. Enough is enough with their dominating position. It reminds me of European cellular phone manufacturers (Nokia, Ericsson) before Apple came to shake their realities with the iPhone.
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Android is not GNU/Linux, it has the Android operating system running on the Linux kernel rather than the GNU operating system running on the Linux kernel.
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the kernel, by all means, is the operating system (unless you run mach or hurd).
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An old dual processor 3 ghz board with is going to kick ass for quite some more time...
Just as long as it isn't using Pentium 4 (or its Xeon variant with Netburst architecture) CPUs. That POS was such a power hog, it's worth it to upgrade to something newer as you'll recoup your savings on your electric bill shortly.
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Re:Ugh (Score:4, Interesting)
All those specialty business applications and "mission critical" visual basic programs seem to only run on Windows XP, based on the various doctors' offices and other businesses I've seen computers running in. Now with XP being EOLed, I expect to see all kinds of havoc.
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We can thank the morons at Canonical (Ubuntu/Unity) and GNOME for that.
Yeah right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Laptops and Desktops don't need "apps" and people aren't going to buy them to play Angry Birds and Snapchat all day.
If you want to make a move away from Windows give them an OS that can actually do something useful. Nobody is trying to replace their phone with a laptop.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
If it weren't for the fact that Windows 8 (and 8.1) seems hell bent on removing the things that make it a computer, and not just a tablet, I would feel a lot more confident this move was going to just lead to a bunch of laughter.
Why does everyone want Android everywhere? I've used OS X, iOS,the original Mac OS, Windows 3.1 - 7, and various linux distros. And Android. Android is hands down the most annoying. And yet people persist in wanting not just smartphones, but real computers to run it.
Re:Yeah right. (Score:4)
I wouldn't be against a desktop OS built from Android. But Android needs a lot of work to go from mobile devices to the desktop.
Google Play Store (Score:5, Interesting)
What makes Android better than any other distro?
Google Play Store has a large selection of Android applications, especially in categories that free software tends not to touch [pineight.com], such as games and video-on-demand players. Other distros might catch up should more games and clients for VOD services get ported to SteamOS (and thus to GNU/Linux), but that isn't guaranteed to happen.
Re:Google Play Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Going to arbitrary websites to download and subsequently execute binaries is extremely dangerous, and significantly disadvantages small vendors... How is a random user supposed to know that the website they've been to and the file they just downloaded is trustworthy and not some piece of malware?
Re:Yeah right. (Score:5, Informative)
I want to extend the right click context menu - same as Win 7-zip managed to add itself to my context menu. I rarely add anything to it but it's clearly possible
I want to be able to have a variety of windows of various sizes open, not just full, 1/4, 3/4. - same as Win 7. You can manually resize windows. Using the snap feature obviously is going to change that, and the Metro app annoyingly default to full screen. I avoid that by not using them.
I'd like to be able to type the first X letters of a program, have a self-shrinking list of all executable on my computer narrow down as I type (the start menu functionality) - same as Win 7. Hit the windows key and start typing.
Maybe I was missing something but a lot of that list is unnecessary criticism. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Windows 8 and 8.1, but 95% of it can simply be bypassed by choosing "boot to desktop" or just hitting the desktop tile when you log in. It's dumb it came to that but should hardly be that much of a detriment to a Slashdotter.
Re:Yeah right. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is scary enough that MS, allegedly, has in the past prevented OEM from installing two OS. The last thing MS wants a computer user to know is there is another OS. Look at the misinformation on the Mac, how expensive it is, when my last Macbook Air was $1000. Yes, more expensive that they mythicla $300 MS laptop that runs everything, but about what a good laptop costs. We can argue price, but MS is scared of users knowing there is choice.
We also see this in past EULA in which certain versions of MS Windows could not be the guest OS. This is likely the future of the PC. A reasonably functional and free client OS on top of which a virtualized guest OS can be run. This is basically what MS is doing now with the instant upgrade. Start with a functionality locked out, and buy a full OS after the fact. Like the Mainframe manufacturers used to do. You have all the hardware, but have to pay extra to use it.
So this is the way it ends (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft, past giant of the operating system industry, will die not to OS X, not to Ubuntu, not to FreeBSD, Redhat, not to ReactOS, Plan 9, Gentoo, Hurd, BeOS, the vengeful ghost of OS/2, but to an OS designed for cell phones.
Well, okay, I guess.
Re:So this is the way it ends (Score:4, Funny)
Nah, it will be when business cease to want that space that Redmond becomes vulnerable. The termites have already started in the guise of pads and smartphones. When the suits suddenly realize Powerpoint makes them look stupid, MS is toast. Bwahahahahahahaha...like that will ever happen.
What might scare MS (Score:5, Insightful)
A dual boot Windows 8.1 and Steam OS machine. I'm not really feeling the need for Android on a PC. Anyone else?
Re: (Score:3)
why? you want nvidia only piece of shit hardcoded by former nvidia employee?
SteamOS also works on AMD [phoronix.com] and Intel [phoronix.com] GPUs.
Morons (Score:5, Insightful)
If they want to scare MS then they need to get behind a linux distro. Any of the polished ones it doesn't really matter.
You've got Steam pushing a linux gaming line... why would you go for anything besides linux IF you're trying to unseat MS?
This is idiotic and doomed to tragic failure.
Re:Morons (Score:5, Interesting)
Most people who use computers these days have a very minimal idea of how they work. You don't truely understand this until you work in tech support. I could tell you some horror stories...
- The user who organised their files for years by using file->save as on word, because they didn't know you could click 'my computer' or 'my documents' and get a window intended for the task.
- The user who accidentially associated PDF files with word and could only report the problem as 'my email broke.'
- The user who had to call helpdesk for instruction on how to launch Word, after the shortcut was shuffled off the start menu quick-list.
Many users don't get the concept of a program. Or a URL. Or a file - they know there is a little picture they click on to open a document, but they think this little picture *is* the document. That's why you see so many of them attaching shortcuts to emails. They don't even know what an operating system is - and they are incapable of understanding, as they lack the foundational knowledge of how computers work. Now imagine the tech support nightmare that would come from giving them linux, even a polished distro.
For thirty years the technology industry has strived to make computers so easy, so simple that any untrained user can use them productively. Well, we succeeded, and now we must deal with the consequence. We've created a situation where any untrained user can sit at their computer and do their job, getting on with their objective without wasting overhead time on studying the technology itsself. That's good thing, mostly. The down-side is that if anything changes, even the most trivial thing, they are completly unprepared.
Re: (Score:3)
You mean, doomed like iPads? And ChromeBooks? (Score:4, Interesting)
Everytime I see "doomed" in Slashdot these days, I expect a big hit around the corner...
Actually, it seems, many home users don't need full-blown MS Office and Photoshop, and are very happy with modest apps and casual games. If not more happy, because the full-blown desktop OSes give them headaches. An antivirus? System update that takes 45 minutes? My mom doesn't see how that helps her. These people love their iPads and the ChromeBooks are selling like hotcakes.
And MS is scared of ChromeBooks, enough that they've released a series of anti-ChromeBook ads.
Selling a laptop dual-booting Ubuntu is pointless (and I say that as a 100% Ubuntu supporter): but dual-booting Android indeed gives the laptop a different experience, with superfast boot and simple use, that many users will enjoy. If the laptop does touch, too, then you get a nice Android tablet, too, which is far more functional than a Win8 tablet: indeed, PC+.
Also, let me educate you: Android *is* a Linux distro.
My .02 (Score:3)
Maybe it's time MS gave out thier OS for free (Score:5, Interesting)
I see it as the only way to compete with android. Just give it out, completely free. Still charge for the server level OS's and support, but for a desktop, MS makes money from plenty of other areas. Office is still a cash cow. Xbox is a profit center.
Google makes its money from their "free" OS through the app store. They also have a pretty neat ecosystem and various ways app makers can make money (in app advertising) They control the entire ecosystem. If MS could do the same with windows, I think we'd see the desktop come back.
Re: (Score:2)
How long would it be before the cries of "monopoly abuse" would hit these hallowed pages of lore that we call Slashdot after Microsoft did what you suggest?
it's not Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
The reality is that desktops are dying for a typical person's use and consumption. They're going to return to being workstations for the most part.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Self-modifying or dynamically generated code is the big one. It's essential to make a decently performing web browser: If you can't have it, the performance penalty for running javascript is a few orders of magnitude. On metro, Internet Explorer gets to use it, but MS don't allow anyone else to for 'security reasons.' So even if someone were to port Firefox to metro-ARM for use on Windows RT or phone devices, it'd be unuseably slow.
Android??? Why not Chrome OS.... (Score:2)
Android is not a desktop OS. Chrome OS is designed for the desktop. I fail to see why a desktop or laptop maker would use Android and not Chromium OS. Anyone who has used an Android device with a keyboard and mouse will tell you it is a very sub-par experience. Whereas Chromium OS is basically just Google Chrome with a thin wrapper around it. I wish more PC makers aside from Google would ship Chromium devices it might drive better hardware support and a cleaner install of the platform.
Re: (Score:2)
Android works just fine with a mouse and keyboard, it works great with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It looks and acts a lot like the MeeGo and Ubuntu Netbook Remix OS when you work with a mouse and keyboard. A lot of students are using the Nexus 7 as a tiny notetaking laptop with folio cases that have integrated keyboards.
Android might have been designed for the touchscreen, but it's pretty solid as a singletasking desktop too.
Re: (Score:3)
Because Android has a gazillion name-brand apps, and Chromium OS... doesn't? Granted, many of those apps have web versions which will work fine on Chrome, but it's not even close to the same number.
I'm also thinking that PC makers (who, in many cases, are also tablet and even phone makers) have a lot more product experience with Android than ChromeOS. Yeah, there are some ChromeOS device makers, but nowhere near as many and th
Re: (Score:3)
Chrome OS isn't really a desktop OS either. Chrome OS is the current incarnation of the dumb terminal (I know that there is local processing but the purpose is locking you up to Googles servers and services). Chrome OS is a tool for locking your data in with Google. That is even worse than MS locking in your desktop - at least you control your data there. In Chrome OS you control neither. They have to pay ME for get me to use one.
I've been in the computer field for more decades than I care to remember, and I couldn't count the number of times I've seen people lose priceless data (because it happens so often).
They get viruses that eat their data; they don't backup their data; they backup their data incorrectly; their data and backup gets destroyed (e.g., house fires); etc.
For average people, having a company like Google hold onto your data is a good idea. Google will do a much better job keeping it safe than your average person.
Also,
Why not Windows 7 (Score:2)
Re:Why not Windows 7 (Score:5, Interesting)
Or throw their money and expert knowledge behind linux. It might mean a bit of restructuring - they'd probably want their own organisation making whatever distro they go with - but it could be done. Not likely to happen though, because most OEM manufacturers don't wish to also be software companies.
Scared? (Score:2)
Apple should be the one wary of this (Score:2)
Currently people don't seem very keen on buying touch-screen laptops. But lots of laptop makers also bundling Android means suddenly there's a kind of compelling case to get one, where at least there is a selection of software you could run.
Either one apart is not selling that well, but perhaps together they can combine into a Voltron like force to take on Apple.
It will be very interesting to see how these devices end up managing the division.
A bunch of someones didn't do the required reading (Score:5, Informative)
Why the hell would this scare Microsoft?
Microsoft is ALREADY making billions off Android royalties [businessinsider.com].
Plus these vendors are already contractually obligated to pay the Microsoft tax REGARDLESS of what OS they load onto a system.
This would be a perfect trifecta for Redmond. Microsoft will just look at this and go "We'll get a royalty? WIN! We'll still get our OS tax? WIN! We don't have to support it? WIN!"
Re: (Score:3)
Of course it scares MS. If it didn't, why did they even release Win8 with the UI previously known as Metro?
The purpose of Metro is obviously to get a 30% share of all application sales - with Android Google gets this share and MS want it.
If the purpose was to make a mobile UI - why try to force it on desktop users? And why force developer to sell through MS? No, the only answer is that Metro is a land-grab for a 30% sale "tax" on all applications. MS could prove this wrong by simply allowing third party ins
The peasants are revolting! (Score:3)
Cover of The Wizard of ID #3:
Voice of alarm outside the window "The peasants are revolting!" and the king, inside "You can say that again."
I don't see it (Score:5, Insightful)
At first I thought they would allow dual boot -- Windows or Android. Then, I could buy one and just boot Android and leave it there. On the rare occasions when I needed Windows, (for instance, to run Adobe Lightroom, which hasn't yet been ported to Android) I could boot into that.
But according to TFA, this is Android on Windows, or the ability to run Android applications on Windows 8. This sounds less like "two operating systems at once" and more like the Android API running on Windows.
This is exceedingly uninteresting. The problem with Windows 8 is the revolting GUI, and this does not fix that. Wake me when you release a tablet that will run Windows apps on Android.
Moreover, this is no particular threat to Windows. It perhaps gives a boost to the Windows 8 ecosystem by tying in whatever Androids applications happen to run (you know it won't be 100%), but the box still runs Windows, and doesn't run anything other than Windows. This is no threat to Microsoft at all, and is not a "rebellion".
Kevin Kline voice: DisapPOINTed!
People! (Score:5, Informative)
People people people! Read TFA! These laptops are running Windows and not anything but Windows. This "two OSs at once" crap is just that. They support the Android API, so (some) Android apps will run on Windows. That's all. There's a lot less here than meets the eye.
So there's no use saying they should have picked Chrome OS or Linux or some other OS to run in conjunction with the Windows OS, because they're not running anything but the Windows OS. Sorry to be a buzzkill.
This is a rather tame revolution (Score:4, Funny)
multiple computer makers will unveil systems that simultaneously run two different operating systems, both Windows and [...] Android
That's right! We're going to revolt by continuing to ship their OS to customers! That'll show 'em.
People aren't buying Windows (Score:3)
Growth of Windows PCs has stalled. People aren't buying it. A great many are repulsed by Windows 8.x and determined to tough it out with what they've got. A new Windows PC is too expensive and complicated, doesn't give good value.
People are buying Android and ChromeOS devices. Quick, easy, inexpensive Android and ChromeOS devices.
OEMs want to sell Windows devices, people want to buy Android and ChromeOS devices. Naturally OEMs are going to come up with the answer that all they need to do is sneak some expensive complicated poor-value Windows onto the popular Android and ChromeOS devices and they're good as gold. They really are that stupid.
That is not how it works. You are trying to sell the worst of both worlds.
Propane cars (Score:5, Insightful)
But they let things stagnate so much that when mobile came along all they could think about was protecting their eco system. So instead of coming up with a lightweight tablet they made the surface that integrates with their eco system.
So basically it seems that MS has become a company that is entirely based upon fooling people into making bad decisions.
But this might seem like a good idea to keep customers from leaking away. The problem is that when they do leave they leave entirely and are never coming back unless their new system sucks even more. Where this is real problem is that the MS system can really suck without losing too many customers due to inertia. But as history has repeatedly shown people don't leave one stagnant tradition for a slightly better one, they leave for something completely new and often quite different.
An interesting example from history was the end of whale oil; it was around $1900 per barrel (today's prices) while crude oil was around $90 a barrel. This put more and more pressure for people to figure out how to extract useful replacements from crude. When they did still people kept on with Whale oil but then suddenly "petroleum" products wiped out the whale oil industry almost overnight. Once the trend started there was nothing the whale industry could do; it was over.
I would say that MS is in a very bad place. Customers who switch to mobile are entirely eliminating MS from their minds. Not out of hate or revenge but simply they don't see an use for MS products in their lives. Of course some people are still using MS office to type a bit and Excel to add up a few numbers but the vast majority would be perfectly happy with Office 97.
So as I say MS has a business model based upon people making bad decisions. But now many people aren't even seeing MS as one of their options.
Re:MS won't allow this anyway (Score:4, Informative)
What part of "multiple computer makers [are] planning a revolt" do you not understand? They're acting collectively, and if Microsoft refuses them then no Windows machines would be sold at all.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would Microsoft allow this? The PC manufactures must have forgotten about Microsoft shutting down the selling of machines that dual boot Windows and BeOS from the factory.
It's funny how history repeats itself. Several of the core BeOS developers went work at Danger after Be was sold to Palm. Danger was then bought by Google. Since those developers had OS experience, they were put to work on a new project called "Android".
Re: (Score:3)
Wait, I thought Danger went to Microsoft, and were responsible for the Kin?
That's what killed the Sidekick/Hiptop. (I'm still pissed off about that. Sure, Android/Blackberry 10/iOS do far more than my Sidekick LX 2009 did, but what the Sidekick DID do, it did far better.)
Re: (Score:3)
Danger was sold to MS. I read this wrong-
"Several ex-Be employees went to work for Danger after the company told to Palm. Some of them moved on to Android, which was co-founded by Danger co-founder Andy Rubin and acquired by Google. Others stayed on at Palm, but ended up joining Google after PalmSource (which was spun out of Palm) was acquired by Access."
http://readwrite.com/2011/06/29/a-look-back-at-the-beos-file-s#awesm=~orgOogOAzpeZ5m
The point stands that some of the people who created BeOS also created
Re:This is good (Score:4, Funny)
Yep - 2014 will be the year of Linux (with hot grits).