Google Confirms Shut Down of Schemer 170
An anonymous reader writes "Google has confirmed it is shutting down its goal sharing service Schemer. The company says Schemer's last day will be February 7, after which all data will be permanently deleted. The iOS app has already been pulled from Apple's App Store while the Android app on Google Play hasn't been updated since October 2012."
Here we go again... (Score:2, Interesting)
Google confirms it will shut down goal sharing service Schemer...
Queue the folks who built their entire business plan around this free service and will now bleat about how unfair it is, proving once again the Google == Apple == "Micro$oft" == pure corporate evil.
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Both cue and queue work in cases like this (Score:2)
Queue the folks who [...] will now bleat about how unfair it is
Unless you really mean to travel the world and get all these people to form a lineup.
The complaints do end up lining up one after another in the comments section. So both "cue" and "queue" work.
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The complaints do end up lining up one after another in the comments section. So both "cue" and "queue" work.
Nonsense. The comment section is more like a tree than a queue.
Re:Both cue and queue work in cases like this (Score:4, Funny)
The complaints do end up lining up one after another in the comments section. So both "cue" and "queue" work.
The resulting thread is exasperating and could take us anywhere, so Q (like on Star Trek) also works.
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Re: Here we go again... (Score:1, Insightful)
For fucks sake who gives a flying shit who wrote what right.
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A queue can also be a programming thing, namely a FIFO data structure. If you want to process complaints which can arrive asynchrously, it is probably a very good idea to put them into a queue, that is, to queue them.
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I can't but think, don't put all your eggs in one basket. If they put everything on the line for a \free/ service they deserve to fail based solely on bad bushiness practices. At least Google is trying and creating new services, can't blame them for cutting of a bleeding limb.
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If commercial, paid-for products are allowed to write the floor out from under one, then I don't really see why a no-fee service should have stronger rules or
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Don't care about it, look at it as a throw away fly by night service as Google WILL shit all over it trying to make it FB and when it don't make FB money? It'll be shitcanned
They did the shitting a long time ago. The difference is that instead of killing it, they decided to FORCE people to use it by consolidating all their other services around it.
That won't work, and it doesn't work. I quit using most of the services that require Google+ membership. I quit commenting on YouTube. Etc. Rather than be coerced, to the extent I reasonably can I'm just abandoning their platform, and I will go with alternatives instead.
Google thought they had us by the gonads. They were wrong.
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Take IBM's PC division, they were making between 8-12% profit every year, year after year. But you see while most countries have companies that would say "solid profits every quarter, that's good right?" they weren't making the same as the #1 company of the time which was Dell, so out it had to go!
I wonder how this compares to companies like South Korea's Samsung and Daewoo or Japan's Yamaha, or other Asian conglomerates. Those companies don't seem to have a problem having lots of different divisions, pro
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And to answer your question? The Asian corps value profits, both big AND relatively small, and so as long as a group isn't in the red? it'll tend to stay going.
I guess that partly explains why Asia is taking over the global economy while the US is quickly going the way of the Roman Empire.
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IIRC, at the time IBM sold the laptop division, the speculation was that this was to give them an entree into the China market, not because it wasn't profitable enough. (OTOH, if it had been extremely profitable, then IBM would definitely have held onto it more strongly.)
Re:Here we go again... (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF is Schemer? Even the god damn article doesn't tell me and if I don't know WTF it is, how does anyone else? Just another effen Google tool that nobody was told about being shut down because nobody used it. Chicken and Egg Issue. You don't tell folks about it so nobody fucking uses it. Shut it down.
Google could save lots of time/effort/PR by simply not starting these many apps/tools that they keep shutting down because they're not telling anyone about them.
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WTF is Schemer? Even the god damn article doesn't tell me and if I don't know WTF it is, how does anyone else? Just another effen Google tool that nobody was told about being shut down because nobody used it. Chicken and Egg Issue. You don't tell folks about it so nobody fucking uses it. Shut it down.
If it's any consolation, I suspect quite a few people (myself included) wondered that when Schemer first launched in 2011. And never bothered to go back.
[Just checked, yes I deleted my Schemer account.]
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Sorry, but as far as I am concerned a "goal sharing service" could be nearly anything. ... Well, OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's a vague enough term that it could include email or document creation or flowcharting or.... weill, *lots* of different things. If probably doesn't include selling dog food...at least not directly, but that's not exactly a description.
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"Pure Corporate Evil"???
Are you one of the care bears?
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'Cue the Google apologists' you mean.
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It seems like it's a stupid idea to build a business around any particular web service at all nowadays (unless it's something that's easily transferred between competing services), but Google services do seem to be much worse than average for longevity.
Re:Here we go again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, unless it's based on a a free, open protocol that you can host yourself if required.
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Well, unless it's based on a a free, open protocol that you can host yourself if required.
And you can easily get your data out of the system. Because if you cannot get your data, you cannot host it elsewhere.
Re:Here we go again... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, unless it's based on a a free, open protocol that you can host yourself if required.
And you can easily get your data out of the system. Because if you cannot get your data, you cannot host it elsewhere.
That part at least is something that Google does put some work into. You can use Google Takeout to get quite a bit back, in a form you may conceivably use elsewhere. Not sure about Schemer specifically though.
Re:Here we go again... (Score:4, Insightful)
This (and the getting data out of the system bit that another responder mentioned) is precisely why I added the phrase "unless it's something that's easily transferred between competing services". Web services are fine if you can transfer everything to a competing provider with a few keystrokes, but when your business is reliant on something totally proprietary run by one other company, which has no alternatives whatsoever, you've put your business at great risk.
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What companies are tying themselves to Apple mobile devices? I guess you're talking about something where they're taking iPads and building them into something else. I guess the justification there is there's not too expensive and easy to get, but it really would make more sense to use Android tablets instead since there's multiple vendors, and it's even possible to root them and install alternative software on them.
With people, it's easy to understand. Individuals just don't think in these terms much.
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it's even better to simply have one of the companies build you a god damn android tablet that's already rooted since a large company could then get exactly what they want for a pretty reasonable price. Hell at that point, they'd have a fully customized version of droid that doesn't talk to the Google Mothership.
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Well yes, if you're going to buy them in large enough quantities, that's the best thing to do. If you're not buying in large enough quantities, however, that's probably not an option.
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It's more when they're developing software for them. If they were to use an Android device for example, they have the source to the OS, and an abundance of hardware providers making products with different sizes and features. With Apple, you have exactly one. If they raise prices or do something you don't like, you're stuck. I see I've been modded as a troll for making that point again ... very nice.
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It's more when they're developing software for them. If they were to use an Android device for example, they have the source to the OS, and an abundance of hardware providers making products with different sizes and features. With Apple, you have exactly one. If they raise prices or do something you don't like, you're stuck
Yes, but if your business is all about selling iApps, there's not much you can do about that. The simple fact is (unfortunately IMO but I can't control the masses) Apple's iDevices are v
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You make the most important distinction that is typically overlooked.
Dependence on other companies should be avoided if possible. Anyone complaining about the disappearance of an unprofitable beta service deserved to fail.
Both iOS and Android are established platforms with established SDKs and a profit model based in part on the success of 3rd-party developers. Those market characteristics make dependence on their platforms a reasonable risk to accept.
Basing an entire business on Google Wave or Schemer is s
Re:Here we go again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Raises hand.
My last company decided to Googleize just as I was leaving. The VeeP who set it in motion had a list of services he wanted. Thing is, we already provided nearly everything he wanted and none of the things he wanted were unique to Google's offerings. Even back then, there was a pretty significant list of services that Google had shut down and it was clear that it would be risky to heavily integrate anything beyond docs and email into our business practices. I have no idea how it turned out because my last day was in the middle of the transition.
Re:Here we go again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Raises hand.
My last company decided to Googleize just as I was leaving. The VeeP who set it in motion had a list of services he wanted. Thing is, we already provided nearly everything he wanted and none of the things he wanted were unique to Google's offerings. Even back then, there was a pretty significant list of services that Google had shut down and it was clear that it would be risky to heavily integrate anything beyond docs and email into our business practices. I have no idea how it turned out because my last day was in the middle of the transition.
Generally though, most companies struggle to compete with the reliability of Google offerings.
Also, they only seem to shut down side projects that I only hear about when they announce shutting them down. Call me when they shut down maps, gmail, search or android.
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Generally though, most companies struggle to compete with the reliability of Google offerings.
I'm unconvinced about this, purely because when Google takes a project down, they usually seem to give very little notice. There's a really big difference between an in-house service that might go down for half a day *very occasionally* because of some hardware failure or something, and a Google service which goes down permanently with only a month's notice. From a business point of view I'd be much happier about relying on the former than the latter.
I fully acknowledge that services have to be end-of-lif
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I fully acknowledge that services have to be end-of-lifed on occasion, but compare Google's typically "this is being shut down next month" notice with Microsoft's "that bit of software will stop getting security updates in a decade".
That is a completely unfair and unrealistic comparison for the following reason as the MS offerings have usually been bought. Google ostensibly offer you the user stuff you can use for free. If Google were more like MS then the products in question they discontinue would simply never exist in the first place.
I'd say that shutting down isn't the only issue - services having wholesale changes made to them on Google's whim is also a problem (and this is a problem with all "cloud" service providers really). Take, for example, the recent Google Maps overhaul - there was no notice, suddenly the whole of Google Maps changed.
To be fair we were warned a new version was in the works in given the option to use it while it was still in beta. But your right to point out this is a a problem with all online offerings. All you can
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I fully acknowledge that services have to be end-of-lifed on occasion, but compare Google's typically "this is being shut down next month" notice with Microsoft's "that bit of software will stop getting security updates in a decade".
That is a completely unfair and unrealistic comparison for the following reason as the MS offerings have usually been bought. Google ostensibly offer you the user stuff you can use for free. If Google were more like MS then the products in question they discontinue would simply never exist in the first place.
And yet for a business it is *exactly* the sort of comparison that needs to be made. The only way I'd take Google services seriously for business use (free or not) is if they published an end-of-life schedule, much as MS do, whereby they commit to not end-of-lifing a product before the scheduled date. So far Google don't seem to have done this on any of their products, which to my mind makes them unsuitable for business use. You may say "but they won't shut down gmail", but at the end of the day Google t
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Re: Here we go again... (Score:2)
Try Protopage.com (I'm not affiliated, just a fellow iGoogle ex-user)
iGoogle (Score:2)
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And other people are ignorant enough to not know the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid".
Schemer? (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's genius time!
Google Plus (Score:5, Interesting)
How long until they shut down Google Plus? Please tell me it's soon.
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NEVER going to happen. Seriously, they have embedded that fucker in everything, not the least of which is YouTube. It will never die unless Google dies. Seriously, there is no way they could remove the G+ tendrils that are constantly growing in to new areas. It's obviously one of their core projects.
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Maybe for now. It could be that Google is taking a longer view (I know, this doesn't seem normal for them given how much they shut stuff down, but maybe G+ is considered much more important). Facebook looks like it's headed for doom; more and more people are closing their accounts there, and recent news shows that the youngest generation thinks FB is passe, and they only bother getting FB accounts because their parents and relatives are on there. I really think FB's days are numbered, and they're already
Not a user, but is it that expensive for Google? (Score:3)
I mean, Google was about to offer US$4B for Snapchat. I can't imagine it's that expensive for them to keep a service like this running, if for no other reason than to avoid the inevitable negative press like when they shut down Google Reader. Does anyone know how many users we're talking about, and how much administrative time?
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Does anyone know how many users we're talking about, and how much administrative time?
Can you imagine what kind of 'schemes' or 'shared goals' the trolls would be posting, without administrative monitoring?
I can already imagine the kiddies posting goals like "Go on a shooting spree," and every sort of criminal and racist objective in the book. And of course spammers......
Without substantial resources spent on moderation, it would be likely to degenerate into an internet cesspool, that makes Goog
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Interesting point. Although I would imagine that spammers could be dealt with automatically, much as they are in GMail.
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Where? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, I've never heard of it either before today. It looks very interesting to me too. I'm going to start using it now.
Re:Where? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's my reaction to many of the news stories about Google shutting down a service. You'd think Google of all companies wouldn't be so shitty at advertising.
My grandfather was a tile setter. Everything from huge granite slabs inside office buildings and store-fronts to tiny bathroom tile mosaics. His kitchen needed to be retiled, but he was always too tired after work. His house was in such state since before I was born. He retired and still his bathroom and kitchen needed tile work badly. I helped him with electrical remodels, cabinetry, painting, but when it came to the tile work, he'd do it himself. Now he's too old to do it himself, so I retiled his house of 60 years with him supervising and barely able to walk, using the tools he left me and the techniques and tricks of the trade he taught me.
I'm a programmer and cyberneticist -- an OS and game developer by hobby -- I live to code, I do computer security research wherein I discover and report exploits and even create guidelines and OS paradigms so that such bugs can not crop up again... I haven't applied my OS updates in 2 months. Granted, I don't use OSs I haven't built myself for anything requiring security, but still... I hear news of ransomware encrypting machines, and leave my cold backups -- the only preventative measure -- out of date and incomplete. My game's enemy AI code still needs training -- brain the size of small planets, but only chaotic wiring therein. I'm still having too much fun setting selection pressures and environment variables such that the simple powerups evolve to run screaming from the players, not wanting to get eaten. There's a bug in my hobby OS's heap allocator where the first block allocated can't be freed properly -- meh, that only happens on shutdown anyway, It's a simple error in the linked list via hash table, I'll get around to fixing it someday.
My mechanic friend drives a car that's severely in need of engine and body work. My neighbour is a commercial painter, has all the equipment and sprayers, and yet their garage's paint is flaking off leaving the boards in danger of rotting around the very paint cans they contain. I know a nurse who smokes and drinks and eats herself unhealthy consistently, she'll even say matter of factly, "I've stayed up late enough tonight I'll probably be sick by next week, so I can't afford to go out tomorrow."
And now you mention that Google -- The largest Advertising company online -- has shitty advertising for its own products? Well, at once I find this obvious -- par for the course -- yet am also amazed by the cybernetic implications. Probably some phenomena like confirmation bias, but the exact opposite in every detail while remaining largely the same mathematically -- a false satisfaction bias? Rather than add the ability to react appropriately firing off with deadly accuracy, perhaps tonight I'll model the mechanism by which the game's enemies' just fail to kill their hated bosses via defeatist self loathing.
Google. An Advertising Company. (Score:5, Insightful)
Google what now?
You'd think for a company like GOOGLE, they'd, you know, ADVERTISE their products.
I've literally never heard of this at all and I could name everything that was on Google Labs and the More page that lists "all" their services. (which are pretty damn hidden too, no wonder nobody bloody used them!)
ADVERTISE YOUR SHIT, GOOGLE.
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I have to agree. This is the first time I've ever heard of it! I have no idea what it's for, what it's limitations are, or where it might have gone had it survived. It is, literally, zero loss: it never existed as far as I'm concerned.
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I have to agree. This is the first time I've ever heard of it! I have no idea what it's for, what it's limitations are, or where it might have gone had it survived. It is, literally, zero loss: it never existed as far as I'm concerned.
I think I have heard of this once before, but it was saying how it sounds nice, but most of the stuff on it was just spam.
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Maybe they should add that to their list of goals. Oh, wait...
Re:Google. An Advertising Company. (Score:4, Interesting)
I had only heard of it because I found the iTunes page where they list all of the apps by Google. There are a couple others most people have never heard of there.
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Re:Google. An Advertising Company. (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, kudos to Google for not using their dominance in mail, search, Android and other services/products for trying to push Schemer down the throats of their users. They had a product, it didn't fly on its own, it's OK for it to die. Which is not what other companies are doing with bloatware software on phones, tablets and laptops. Nobody got a killer app by doing this and the people at Google seem to realize this.
Re: Google. An Advertising Company. (Score:4, Insightful)
You know they're just gonna roll it into G+ don't you?
That's how they'll try and monetize it
Re:Google. An Advertising Company. (Score:5, Interesting)
Google in many ways looks like Microsoft of the early 2000s. It has lots of bright people, lots of money, and has an enormous range of products that make no money while being sustained by one monopoly product that makes incredible money. It was lucky enough to be the Last Big Thing before Apple hit top gear and it's desperate to find the Next Big Thing before it falls behind.
In its approach to products, however, Google is more accurately the ANTI-Apple. Apple starts from "what do customers need?" and ruthlessly eliminates everything but the purest core product that meets that customer need. Apple focuses on a tiny number of things that people want and does them as perfectly as it can within the time it has at a price that no competitor can match.
Google on the other hand starts from "what cool shit can we do and how can we make money out of it?" "Hey employees, spend 20% of your time brainstorming cool stuff, we'll see if we can use that shit". Google then dribbles ALL OF THAT SHIT out - not launches, dribbles - in broken half-finished beta versions and then waits to see if anything works. Google has no product focus and just has a nonstop conveyor belt of "cool shit" projects coming out the door - Answers, Jotbot, Jaiku, Notebook, Sidewiki, Gears, Wave, Buzz, etc etc etc - that die because they are technically nifty solutions to problems that nobody actually has. Even when something potentially cool like Google+ comes off the production line it's fighting an uphill battle from day one - is fundamentally crippled - because no thought has been given to how people will actually use it.
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Google on the other hand starts from "what cool shit can we do and how can we make money out of it?" "Hey employees, spend 20% of your time brainstorming cool stuff, we'll see if we can use that shit".
Actually, last I heard, Google was no longer doing the 20% thing. It seems like they've given up on the "what cool shit can we come up with?" tack, and now are trying to force more integrated services on everyone, which no one seems to want.
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I was talking to a Google recruiter about a month ago. She was using 20% time as a selling point. Possibly its harder to get a 20% product released, but its not dead.
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Google doesn't make any money out of search. Google makes money out of ADVERTISING, that's its "one monopoly product that makes incredible money". Advertising is responsible for 96% of Google's revenue.
Google doesn't have lock-in (Score:2)
Unlike Microsoft in its salad days, Google doesn't have an anti-competive monopoly clause built into your hardware. You can buy a computing device without Google and still interact with the rest of the world. Comparing Google to Microsoft at this point is specious.
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Naturally, but monitor how often that non-Google device interacts with Google services. You probably won't be feeling the same way.
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Why? How is an application accessing Google services limiting my choices or affecting my productivity? Both were effects of the Microsoft monopoly.
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Apple starts from "what do customers need?"
I'll fix that for you:
Apple starts from "what does Average Joe need?"
There.
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Apple? What do they have to do with this? Apple is a hardware vendor, Google only tangentially so. Google does advertising and web services, making most of its money on the former while spending it on the latter.
In what way would Google 'fall behind' Apple? Google's products are mostly operating-system and hardware agnostic, running equally well (or poor) on all supported platforms. For Apple to change this they'd have to exclude Google from their products. They tried, and failed, miserably. They might try
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> It was lucky enough to be the Last Big Thing before Apple hit top gear and it's desperate to find the Next Big Thing before it falls behind.
Apple didn't hit top gear, it just engaged a retro rocket called Steve Jobs. Rocket is now spent, and Apple will slow to its usual coasting speed over the next few years. There's no reason to think Apple will perform at the same level from now on. The right-place-right-time market breakthroughs are over.
Android will take over from here, becoming embedded in all kin
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Android makes Google no money. The only company that makes good money if Android proliferates like crazy is Microsoft, since it gets royalties every time an Android device is sold.
The only way Google can make money as a result of Android is to use it to monitor your behavior and show you advertisements.
Live by the cloud, die by the cloud (Score:4, Insightful)
If it doesn't generate advertising revenue, Google will kill it.
Google's news archives recently went away. Google Scholar is a likely next candidate for the chopping block.
I'm worried about Google buying all those robotics companies. Profitability in advanced robotics is probably 5-10 years away. Google has not, in the past, demonstrated that kind of patience. "More wood behind fewer arrows" was their slogan for the first big round of cuts. Google could destroy the US robotics industry.
Re: Live by the cloud, die by the cloud (Score:4, Insightful)
The loss of Google Scholar would be truly devastating. No one is even approaching it's usability (I'm talking to you EBSCOHost and the like). Although, considering Google's recent history of aggressively closing down things that aren't profitable it may be inevitable. Fingers crossed that this won't happen.
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Google could destroy the US robotics industry.
Google isn't the only company driving US industries into the ground, it's endemic in US corporate culture. Hopefully other countries will take over these industries.
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If it doesn't generate advertising revenue, Google will kill it.
Ok, and the problem with that is? They are a for-profit company, and if a product does not live up to revenue expectations it needs to go. Just like thousands of other companies do on a daily basis with their 'under performing' products.
Re:Live by the cloud, die by the cloud (Score:5, Funny)
Oh crap, what am I going to do when I can't replace that Courier V.42bis so that people can dial in to my BBS?
Re:Live by the cloud, die by the cloud (Score:4, Funny)
aha, so this is what google +++ is for.
OK _
(dammit)
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ACK
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Google could destroy the US robotics industry.
You have that backwards - and it the same mistake geeks made with Microsoft when /. was young. Buying up lots of small companies in a sector means there will be more such companies, not fewer, in 5 years. Startups do most of the innovation in tech, and mostly get funded on the hopes of being bought by a big player. When they do, many of the engineers move on to the next startup after a year. It doesn't matter if the big companies keep failing to market the products, because it's the engineers that are
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Perhaps the news archives wouldn't have been culled if the news paper companies didn't insist on suing them and demanding royalties for the content.
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Unlikely. Most likely Google is simply preparing for the next generation of consumer products - robots. By buying up all the robotic companies, Google hopes to acquire a pile of patents that wa
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I'm worried about Google buying all those robotics companies. Profitability in advanced robotics is probably 5-10 years away. [...] Google could destroy the US robotics industry.
i've only read that they have purchased a single robotics company, Boston Dynamics. frankly, i would be happy to see their efforts disappear because their stuff is targeted for military application. just one of those bots would cost a shitload and no doubt money will be dumped into making better and better killing machines at the cost of many lives and billions of dollars. we may be set back years in development but it's a sacrifice worth making. unfortunately, this just means they will be pouring money
So now the new tagline (Score:2)
"The end of the beginning of everything worth doing."
Ads (Score:1)
There was a time when I thought Giigle was cool (Score:5, Interesting)
Something about Google today makes me want to run to Microsoft's arms. At a time I even entertained the idea of working (well, seriously applying) for Google, when life situation would allow relocating. But something has gone sour, like milk. First there was just something in the taste, now it seems there are clumps in it already. Wave. Reader. Insistence of linking everything together in ways I am not comfortable with. This. Soon Scholar?
Who in their right mind is going to make any kind of investment (of time and effort) into any of Google's future stuff? Not me.
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Eh, Google would still look good on the resume, and they can afford to relocate you while the vast array of smaller companies in Silly Valley can't. I recently went a different direction, for exactly the reasons you cite "something smells off", but if you don't already have a "big name" on your resume, any one of them is great for your career.
Google should have named its hardware Astatinebook (Score:2)
Isn't it strange (Score:3)
Another promise destroyed in 2014 (Score:2)
If you like your goal-sharing service, you can keep your goal sharing service!
Then 2014.
First time I've heard of this Google service (Score:2)
First time I've heard of this Google service and I use Google for almost everything web related.
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I installed Schemer a month or two back, and uninstalled it today on news of it's impending demise.
It was interesting, in that you could share "real-world achievements" with your social circles, but it was underpowered since it didn't have very good integration into G+ other than your circles. You could, for example, cross off the "Went to an NFL game in January" goal, and share it with others. Nothing special there, but seeing that someone else got their "Went hot air ballooning" goal might make you thin
Vulnerability of the Cloud (Score:2)
NH;DC - Never Heard of It; Don't Care (Score:2)
Seriously.
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Just write a TODO list on a wiki page or EtherPad?
Or maybe use bugzilla? (After all, TODO lists and bug lists are not really different; indeed you could consider the fact that an item on a TODO list is not yet done a bug to be resolved).