Expert Warns: Civilian World Not Ready For Massive EMP-Caused Blackout 271
schwit1 (797399) writes "An electromagnetic pulse is a burst of electromagnetic energy strong enough to disable, and even destroy, nearby electronic devices. In the first few minutes of an EMP, nearly half a million people would die. That's the worst-case scenario that author William R. Forstchen estimated would be the result of an EMP on the electric grid. 'If you do a smart plan — the Congressional EMP Commission estimated that you could protect the whole country for about $2 billion,' Peter Vincent Pry, executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security and director of the U.S. Nuclear Strategy Forum, told Watchdog.org. 'That's what we give away in foreign aid to Pakistan every year.' He said the more officials plan, the lower the estimated cost gets. 'The problem is not the technology,' Pry said. 'We know how to protect against it. It's not the money, it doesn't cost that much. The problem is the politics. It always seems to be the politics that gets in the way.'"
Actual thought process (Score:5, Informative)
Reading summary: this seems pretty stupid and a little fear-mongery for slashdot.
Click link: Fox news, figures. Usual shit reporting and lack of detail. Obamacare not mentioned anywhere in article.
Click link in article to watchdog.org: not much more detail, more zomg fear crap, still no mention of obamacare.
Read comments on watchdog.org: ok, I’m out
Not saying there isn’t something to talk about here, but linking to fox news for this kind of topic is like linking to a local news report on heartbleed. We aren’t the audience for this level of reporting.
Re:Actual thought process (Score:5, Informative)
Would people stop using
Re:Actual thought process (Score:5, Informative)
Mod this AC up. WTF /.?????? Some article about devastating effects of EMP and an easy preventative measure (that I wanted to read about). But the links are to foxnews.com and watchdog.org!!!! There is no content!
Would people stop using /. and start using soylentnews.org, please!?!? I can't take this anymore!
The watchdog.org site has links to the actual paper referenced (the link in the text called estimated).
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You are crazy man! Not only you RTFA but you even click links! Guys, bring in the pitchforks!
TSA-like Money for Fear (Score:4, Insightful)
We're not ready for a massive EMP... or a 500 mile high Tsunami... or Giant radioactive lizards that breath fire. I love the quote though, "In the first few minutes of an EMP, nearly half a million people would die." Well, if we're talking about an EMP that could take out the entire US including airspace, that might be true of planes falling from the sky and trains running off the rails. But that scenario isn't even remotely plausible outside total nuclear annihilation. Further, Hurrican Katrina showed that even an EMP hitting a major city is really nothing more than a power outage. Flooding happens to be the most dangerous natural disaster in reach of major cities (short of Hawaii blowing up or California splitting in half). Unless the results of an EMP are dams breaking in some Superman: The Movie kind of way, we wouldn't even see a Katrina level disaster.
Frankly, I could care less about an EMP. Any number of computer viruses could disable more machines than an EMP. And a radioactive dirty bomb is a real threat to life for decades. Any terrorist that could cause an explosion capable of triggering a sufficiently large EMP would find that the bomb itself would be more useful against a soft civilian target. An EMP is just flat out impractical for a terrorist, who prefers simple and direct and terrifying.
On the other hand, if we're worried about a bad actor like North Korea, I believe such an EMP that could hit multiple US cities at once would trigger a nuclear response from the US. What are we going to do, waste resources wrapping electronics in shielding for... an unwarranted fear? And $2 Billion sounds desperately low. It's like the TSA, only even more incredibly useless.
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We're not ready for a massive EMP... or a 500 mile high Tsunami... or Giant radioactive lizards that breath fire.
Unlike the other two, an EMP event that could damage or destroy most electronic equipment within 1,000 mils of it can be created by most any nuclear power on the planet. A growing number of those nuclear powers are either unstable, hostile, or both, towards the US and the West. Iran is probably next on the list to have that capability.
that scenario isn't even remotely plausible outside total nuclear annihilation.
You've just stated you completely fail to understand the nature of EMP. The most dangerous EMP event is a large nuclear warhead exploded high above the ground, too high to
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http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html
We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vintages ranging from 1986 through 2002. Automobiles of these vintages include extensive electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially increasing EMP field intensities. If anomalous response (either temporary or permanent) was observed, the testing of that particular automobile was stopped. If no anomalous response was observed, the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m). Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. . Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response. Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.
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Would people stop using /. and start using soylentnews.org, please!?!? I can't take this anymore!
Then why are you here commenting instead of there basking in the delights of "soylentnews.org"?? Trolling for members?
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Simple people come to Slashdot for the community comments unfortunately the stories that are discussed have gone down hil., Soylent news hasn't been able to attract the /. community because the community isn't there even though the stories are generally better, it is a network effect problem its the same reason everyone has a Facebook account even though they hate it and acknowledge other sites like Google plus are superior but no one is there. What it will take to cause mass exodus is a massive sudden fuck
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Who looks stupid now, dumbass?
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We're inception-style 3-links deep here, but this article, linked from Watchdog, is actually somewhat more interesting -- http://www.onesecondafter.com/... [onesecondafter.com]
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Reading summary: this seems pretty stupid and a little fear-mongery for slashdot.
Click link: Fox news, figures. Usual shit reporting and lack of detail. Obamacare not mentioned anywhere in article.
Click link in article to watchdog.org: not much more detail, more zomg fear crap, still no mention of obamacare.
Read comments on watchdog.org: ok, I’m out
Not saying there isn’t something to talk about here, but linking to fox news for this kind of topic is like linking to a local news report on heartbleed. We aren’t the audience for this level of reporting.
So you repeatedly looked for "Obamacare" information in a story about the dangers to infrastructure posed by EMP? (And that is modded "informative"?!?!) Yes, I'll agree with your assessment that you "...aren’t the audience for this level of reporting." You don't seem to be up to that level. On top of that your post isn't really anything other than an anti-Fox News troll.
There is plenty of fodder in those stories for good discussion by anyone that is interested. You apparently aren't.
Experts: Civi [watchdog.org]
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Or the real source, the AP and API news feeds. Look hard enough and you can find pirated feeds online that are not delayed.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/f... [ap.org] for the legitimate but heavily time delayed feed. The paying customers get the news earlier so they can publish it before it goes on the public feed.
Re:Actual thought process (Score:4, Insightful)
I would presume parent is making jest of the excessively biased Fox News and the somewhat biased Watchdog News. Usually they try to at least work in a halfhearted jab against Obama. I too was waiting for the "and here is why Obama is to blame" punchline as soon as I saw the source of the article.
Anyway, I agree with other posters. This article is aimed at stirring up fear within their demographic, not technical discussion. If you drill down far enough there is a much better article that probably should have been directly linked.
Extreme panic and fear is advisable!!! (Score:3)
Because, you know: If somebody could produce a massive EMP blackout in the US, he could just as well nuke Los Angeles. So it's best to spend trillions of dollars on nuclear shelters now. And constructing a doomsday world destruction device might also be a good idea, because this would act as a deterrent against the terrorists ...
Naivete (Score:3)
That's what we give away in foreign aid to Pakistan every year.
...Is he implying America is giving that aid from the kindness of their heart?
One word: FUD (Score:2)
See subject.
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They are correct, we do need to take step to prevent impact from a massive EMP from a solar burst. IT need to be part of a larger revamping of the system. DEsigned by engineers, and not by congress.
Interesting red. if you like dry technical topics:
http://www.empcommission.org/d... [empcommission.org]
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It is worst case, not probable, not something that is going to happen, not something that probably will happen, so such numbers are FUD and really are not part of the debate.
It is true that 30 years ago electronics were not so embedded in our lives. In particular the new generation does not seem to be able to solve problems for themselves. I see them on the phone having their parents solve even the most ba
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Re:One word: FUD (Score:5, Funny)
I like the statement that, in the worst case scenario, 500,000 people would die in the first half hour.
That amazes me. I would think that even in 2014, it would take a couple of hours before people went into a terminal heart rhythm because they couldn't log on to Facebook. Maybe I'm just old and slow...
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Even the tinfoil-hatters I know were not predicting that many deaths in the first hour. In 3-4 days, this would be a different story because people would be re-enacting the Donner party in heavily populated areas once food trucks stopped coming... but in the first half-hour, there might be casualties like people in elevators, or a welding robot shutting down and dropping something heavy on a worker's noggin, but not these many in such short a time.
Re:One word: FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
And why would trucks stop coming into the city?
Oh, right becasue idiots think an EMP would stop most vehicles from running.
Next time you tin foil hat friends mention it, be sure to inform them that only 3% would ahve any effect at all, and only a smalle number of those would lead to a situation where a crash could occur.
So, basically, we would be in 1910 for about a month, then 1920, within a year everyone would have power again.
Would people die? yes/ Would civilization collapse? no. The internet would be running at some capacity through the whole thing.
The biggest risk is that all these ignorant survivalist cause people to panic becasue of all the FUD that have been spreading.
http://www.empcommission.org/d... [empcommission.org]
Of course, this also mean it would need to be strong enough to impact that entire continent; which one could be, coming form the Sun.
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Why would the computer circuits in trucks be exempted from an EMP? As for only having a problem for a month, you've obviously never had to deal with a natural disaster.
Re:One word: FUD (Score:5, Interesting)
Because of metal shielding and short wires, basic electronics 101 stuff here.
The EMP power required to take out a modern car's Ignition system and ECM would be so high that you would DIE from the radiation. Cars also are the single most noisy power environment so the ECM is already hardened from the 2000 mini EMPs per minute that are being created under the hood of the car as it drives down the road.
I have directly experienced an EMP that is 90,000 times greater than anything the SUN can create, it's called a direct lightning strike. several electronic systems were blown out like TV sets that were connected to an ANTENNA. but the car in the garage that was the closest to the EMP was just fine. Same with the motorcycle and the other car in the driveway. How close was the EMP? 8 feet from the garage, it split the tree in 1/2 and burned a track down the center of it.
But that is first hand experience, if you have any kind of electronics education you will also know that even a Nuclear bomb generated EMP will only affect systems that are interconnected by miles of wire. so yes, all the power grids will go down as well as all the telecommunications systems that are still wire based. There is a lot of bullshit floating around the internet about the EMP and how it is a super uber technology killer. it's not. and even if there was a chance of a really big one, it's trivial to protect equipment from them.
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And why would trucks stop coming into the city?
For lack of available fuel? For lack of refrigeration in the warehouses that used to store the food they deliver? For lack of whole chunks of the supply chain upstream from their knife's-edge just-in-time delivery infrastructure? Because roads would be blocked or at least hosed up for lack of traffic control? Because people would be truck-jacking anything that looked valuable?
The entire infrastructure that brings food to people right before they actually need it is incredibly fragile. The trucks, needin
Just don't let cupboards go bare ... (Score:4, Informative)
After all, you can never be too careful, right?
Do you realize what careful is? For example when living in earthquake country believing that three days of supplies as recommended by the government is optimistic. So you buy three cases (adjust for family size) of bottled water rather than one, and as you use one case through normal activity you replace it so you always have 2-3 on hand. For your cupboard you purchase six cans (adjust for family size) of a particular canned good you use, when you get down to three you purchase three more, that way you always have 3-6 on hand. Do so each for canned chile, soup, peaches ... whatever you normally use. Similar story with dry goods, 1-2 boxes on hand, snack foods, etc. 1-2 packages of toilet paper. 1-2 boxes of plastic garbage bags on hand, toilet liners if water is out. 1-2 packages of batteries for some LED flashlights. A basic first aid kit with antiseptic, gauzes, tape, bandaids, aspirin/tylenol, etc; no wilderness self-surgery kit necessary. If a disaster occurs eat what is in your refrigerator first, then your freezer, then your canned goods. You can have a week or two of food just by not letting your cupboard go bare. Nothing special or exotic needed, no freeze dried food good for years necessary. No special gear beyond what a boy scout might take on a weekend camping trip is necessary.
Pretty much all you need is the stuff you normally buy and use anyway. You just don't let inventories get to zero.
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Fundamentally I agree with you about the imbecilic quality of the fear for, and utter lack of real knowledge about, the boogeyman, EMP.
But there are also real dangers on account of the hair's edge on which is balanced the life support system of the civilized world. If the North American electric power grid were to go down for more than a day, dislocation starts. More than a handful of days, the machine stops. The ENTIRE machine. I'll tell you why trucks stop co
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I ran a post apocalyptic RPG (CP2020 system) once where civilisation was destroyed by a network of satellites called "dark stars", these were basically stocked up with several score dedicated EMP devices which would be released at intervals determined by a complicated biblical code. The group had to find a way to take down the satellites, or at lest some of them, before the next pulse reset civilisation to near zero, which involved cracking the code (ie beating up a bunch of zealots plus sleuthery and resea
One other word: denial (Score:3)
Yes, the article is sensationalist. While EMP could be a real problem, a bigger problem is that any attack that could generate a big enough EMP to knock out the electronics over half a continent would likely cause much worse problems, like World War III and Nuclear Winter. Even if it only costs a little bit, is it worth the effort to guard against EMP? Computer security is another area that you have to constantly ask if it's worth the trouble, and will proposed measures actually help? Yes, we've had man
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I guess it could cause your car to shut down. it might start back up again, but i don't have faith in my fellow motorists abilit
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A solar EMP could easily hit the entire US.
Of course, a solar EMP isn't likely to be big enough in localized intensity to do any damage to small things like aircraft.... but it could still damage the electric grid on the ground, which has wiring that is many miles in length and so exceptionally large voltages can be induced by such an event.
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Re:One word: FUD (Score:4, Funny)
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Don't forget the people living on a... um... "government income"...
You know that by far the largest group of unemployed people living on a government income are retired old folks collecting Social Security, right?
But I'm guessing that "grandma" isn't the demographic group I'm supposed to think of when you blow your ill-informed dog whistle [wikipedia.org].
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I like the statement that, in the worst case scenario, 500,000 people would die in the first half hour.
That amazes me. I would think that even in 2014, it would take a couple of hours before people went into a terminal heart rhythm because they couldn't log on to Facebook. Maybe I'm just old and slow...
From the actual report being reported on, almost all commercial airlines are computer controlled an an EMP would kill those computers and the flight controls. Anybody in the air wouldn't be for long.
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Yup. Link is to Fox News, and TFA is extremely void of actual infomation.
You need to click through Fox to Watchdog Radio and their story has links to the various info being reported on in the actual story text.
A chilling EMP scenario (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O... [wikipedia.org]
The degeneration of society seems to be pretty plausible. Kind of ties in with the "post-apocalyptic skills" thread of a few weeks ago.
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The degeneration of society seems to be pretty plausible. Kind of ties in with the "post-apocalyptic skills" thread of a few weeks ago.
I hope people take the time to read EMP commission report. While there is no question it would suck and hard to predict aggregate effect on society there are some interesting and counter-intuitive tidbits. Some of my favorites:
Systems designed to protect against EMF also protect against EMP. When tested new cars were no worse off than old cars due to EMF tolerance requirements. I believe none of the cars tested actually broke down although some had to be turned off and started right back up.
Simple chang
Country not ready for huge asteroid or Godzilla (Score:4, Informative)
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I just happen to sell asteroid repellent and giant lizard repellent. If you order before midnight, you can get some ginsu knives too.
Exactly. The purpose of national defense is not to defend against the entire menagerie of the imagination. It is to defend against the most probable threats in the most cost efficient way possible.
Side note: Sometimes, whether we protect against everything we can imagine or not, we will get hit with an unexpected event and people will die. That is just the way it is. Quit tryi
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Well, since the sun ejecting mass that would cause country wide EMP impact, and it WILL happen sooner or later, I think this qualifies.
Rebuilding are grid is a great benefit for many reasons. Better distributed power, less reliance on outside energy, improved SCADA defenses,
Re engineering the electrical grid minimizes the impact from a whole host of externals and internal issues.
The benefit is both wide and deep.
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Sorry, what you plan for as most probable is not enough. That gives you, to pick one example, a Maginot line. They will just go around it or fly over it.
More apropos recent history, having a military system which is devastatingly effective against mass tank attacks and tanks dug in defensively, but is absolutely helpless against IEDs and snipers, is not effective. But neither is the opposite. You either make your military system flexible and effective against as wide a variety of strategies and tactics as p
EMP caused by *what*, exactly? (Score:2)
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Well, as the article said, God might do something.
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... If you were close enough for ionizing radiation to kill you ... the heat would have vaporized you well before you had enough time to figure out that the radiation might be a problem.
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"Nuclear detonation? We'd have worse things to worry about then (like ionizing radiation killing us all)."
no everyone. Air burst can be high altitude. so to minimize fallout, allow for landing, temporarily cripple and not destroy cities you want to occupy.
While tat would be local, the way the current grid is set up, a local even could take out have the nations power.
"How the hell would you even protect the entire planet from something that powerful in the first place?"
A) It wold depend on the size the is a
What's the range of an EMP? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know it would vary based on the yield of the nuke and the relative shielding of the device, but let's say...
1) "Rogue" small-yield nuke detonated at ground-level (eg, snuck onto a shipping container or other similar delivery).
2) Standard-size ICBM delivered to target intended for ground destruction.
3) Standard sized ICBM delivered for maximum EMP yield.
Can you use a single nuke to EMP the entire continental US?
What kind of shielding is necessary to block EMPs? Is my TV in the top floor of my house junk but maybe my PC in the basement likely unaffected? Is there a shared risk from the electric grid?
Re:What's the range of an EMP? (Score:5, Informative)
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Somehow I have the feeling that if a nuke detonates, that is powerful enough to produce an EMP that causes a blackout in the entire USA, the EMP will be low on the list of things to worry about. That is, assuming you survive the initial blast long enough to even realise there is a nation-wide blackout.
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I was under the impression that it was something of an either-or: if you're trying to EMP people with a nuke, the thing to do is to set it off in the ionosphere so you create large currents.
Re:What's the range of an EMP? (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
"It produced a yield equivalent to 1.4 megatons of TNT."
"The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands"
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Somehow I have the feeling that if a nuke detonates, that is powerful enough to produce an EMP that causes a blackout in the entire USA, the EMP will be low on the list of things to worry about. That is, assuming you survive the initial blast long enough to even realise there is a nation-wide blackout.
A ground-based/low altitude nuke will kill you, but not cause an EMP pulse. A very high altitude nuke will cause an EMP, and not give any radiation to the ground. While they're both fruit, it's apples and oranges.
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Actually the EMP can travel thousands of miles in the upper atmosphere and do damage. Read up on Starfish Prime and some other of the tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N... [wikipedia.org]
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In Forstchen's book (and according to what I've read) it would take a minimum of well placed 3 nukes in the upper atmosphere to cover the continental US- basically line of sight. I believe it doesn't take a particularly big nuke.
A Faraday cage may protect your devices, but only if the cage is complete- any wires in or out could defeat the purpose and propagate the high field strength (at least high enough to do damage) inside the cage. Since the risetime of the signal is very, very fast, even a tiny crack
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Can you use a single nuke to EMP the entire continental US?
No, not really. If you had an EMP that could cook via electromagnetic radiation the electrical grid of the US, you'd have worst problems than EMP caused black outs to deal with.
The whole idea of an effective EMP is to fry as much cooper/aluminum wire as one could. Think of really effective EMPs being more like lighting and less like nuclear detonations, since using a nuclear detonation is like trying to cut off the kitchen lights using a bulldozer and thirty tons of sand. If we're strictly talking EMP, l
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A good EMP keeps you guessing and has a dozen or so employees walking hundreds of kilometers of wire trying to find the failure.
This never happens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B... [wikipedia.org]
Some EMPs can fry pacemakers and pretty much anyone on life support is dead in a massive EMP.
How do you know that? Have these machines been tested? What is the basis?
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half of it. But you could do the same thing with a few conventional explosive and a little research do do how the grid is currently laid out.
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Just In: Paper town not ready for flame thrower... (Score:3)
It always seems to be the politics... (Score:5, Insightful)
This will be the epitaph of our civilization.
Half a million in minutes? (Score:4, Insightful)
The people who die in the first few minutes are going to be those who's lives are dependent on technology. That's list contains almost exclusively those in planes and those dependent on medical devices. How's a power grid update going to protect those people? Hospitals already have backup generators and you can't do anything about fried equipment.
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Why do you think people on planes will have an issue? Planes are 'hardened' against non hostile EM event. such as lightening. They also have several redundant systems. The amount of redundancy depends on the criticality of the system
The impact of an EMP would be minimal. At least on Boeing systems. I assume* Air Bus also used RTCA/DO-160D or it's equivalent.
Since there are several ignorant memes in the public conscious put there by ignorant fear monger survivalist, panic may be a real issue.
Fact is, most pl
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That's list contains almost exclusively those in planes and those dependent on medical devices.
Is there experimental evidence or other reasons for thinking planes would fall out of the sky or is this just an assumption? Our current fleets of flying aluminum cans routinely get hit by lightning and come out more or less unscathed. A direct localized strike has got to be competitive with high altitude nukes perhaps increased length of exposure from a gnarly CME could have a different/worse effect.
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Memo to self: Do homework fist, THEN post to /.
Trying to stand out by yourself, are you?
How Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
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How exactly does 2 Billion "protect" everyone from an EMP weapon? Have we found something as good a what we currently use, but won't break? Old Vacuum tubes are a nice protection against a system that could go down, but you never want it to go down.
You install shielding and protection components. A component you can't design to be resistant to an EMP, like maybe a CPU, you shield - stick it in a grounded metal box. You switch to fiber-optic for signal lines, and you put surge suppression/breakers on any metallic lines entering the shelter.
On things like generators, you can provide limited protection simply by over-specifying specific components. Wires/insulation rated to higher voltage, in addition to some breaker components to ensure that longer w
$2 Billion (Score:2)
Isn't that much when you consider all of the nation's electric utilities. It'll be interesting to see how Congress spins this: As a requirement to be imposed upon each utility as a part of their normal maintenance and reliability obligations. Or as Impending Doom, requiring the immediate transfer of federal funds into the coffers of the nations' utilities. Including the investor-owned outfits.
I'm placing my bet on the "Doom" option.
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The other interesting thin
Setting aside the whole "EMP" thing... (Score:3)
...whether Cold War-flavored (so very 1980s) or terrorist-flavored (so very 9/11), wouldn't these relatively straightforward precautions LIKEWISE buffer us against the effects of the sorts of solar activity that randomly seems to popup every 100 years or so?
It seems that as our society becomes more and more DEPENDENT on the interwebs, we'd want to invest a little to protect that.
(Then again, one might assume that because our entire economy runs on the roadways, we'd want to invest in them too...)
Yet the Republicans are too wedded to utter prohibition on taxation, and the Democrats are too busy taking the tax revenues we do get and pouring great gobs of cash onto various interest groups for either of them give a shit about the ACTUAL public weal.
Only $2 billion? What's stopping them? (Score:2)
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"Politics" in this case means that they haven't convinced the government that this money needs to be spent on them. Given that in these cases the government tends to have a bias towards spending money, I would regard that as telling.
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No, "politics" means the criminal assholes in Congress and the White House have no problem wasting trillions of dollars on pet feel-good projects and perpetual programs of relentless ever-increasing scope, but pontificate and argue themselves blue in the face over a billion here and there for undertakings which are unquestionably vital to safeguard the life and welfare of EVERYBODY.
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"Civilian World" really isn't ready for anything (Score:2)
Uh Huh (Score:2)
If people start exploding megaton class warheads 200 km above our soil, I would say that we have other things to worry about.
Or, to put it another way, that $ 2 billion is being spent, and it's being spent several times over, just not here.
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Perhaps you could enlighten us on what those other things are, since the effects of nuclear explosions in space are essentially entirely limited to EMP.
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From the weapon itself, not much. From what it means that someone is able to and is firing it, I think we could derive plenty.
National Enquirer buys Slashdot. (Score:2)
There was once a time that I got about 65% of my news from
Fox News (Score:3)
Starfish prime [wikipedia.org] is interesting, though.
Stop bitching about Fox News... (Score:3, Interesting)
Actual Link (Score:2)
large solar storm can do this too (Score:3)
This extra radiation appears to have created extra C14 from atmospheric nitrogen) at that time. Scientist have exampled tree rings, ice cores, and lake sediments for other such super storms. There is a hint of one in 774 AD [wordpress.com]. The historical records and istopes have not been studied enough to determine the recurrance of large storms.
The Book (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not buying the $2B for one second (Score:2)
To prevent an EMP from causing the collapse of US civilization, you, at the least, need to protect:
- The power grid
- Every municipal water and sewage system
- The entire petroleum refining and distribution apparatus to a point where you can refine and distribute diesel fuel. (Can't run farm equipment or food transport without it)
- Food distribution and processing
- The public safety system (cars, computers, etc.)
- A decent portion of the telecommunications grid
- Acute medical care
- Military weapons, logistic
We're protected! (Score:2)
Hello EMP proof, good bye wireless.
Re:linking to fox news? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, to be fair, at this point a link to the onion would enhance the credibility of the article.
Re: (Score:3)
It's only a pole about solar flares, but it is related:
http://www.theonion.com/articl... [theonion.com]
My favorite: "The moon never pulls shit like this.”
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Many antennas, each miles to hundreds of miles long, is hardly the same thing as a single antenna hundreds of thousands of miles long. You have 100,000 km of blood vessels great and tiny packed inside your body, but you don't drag around a train 100,000 km long when you move about.
The article of your first reference doesn't say there is "no way to protect"; it
Re: (Score:2)