Man Booted From Southwest Flight and Threatened With Arrest After Critical Tweet 928
CanHasDIY writes The old saying goes, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." A man learned the consequences Sunday, after Tweeting about his experience with a rude Southwest gate attendant: "A Minnesota man and his two sons were asked to leave a Southwest Airlines flight after the man sent a tweet complaining about being treated rudely by a gate agent. Duff Watson said he was flying from Denver to Minneapolis on Sunday and tried to board in a spot for frequent flyer privileges he held and take his sons, ages 6 and 9, with him, even though they had a later spot to board the plane. The agent told him that he would have to wait if he wanted to board with his children. Watson replied that he had boarded early with them before and then sent out a tweet that read 'RUDEST AGENT IN DENVER. KIMBERLY S. GATE C39. NOT HAPPY @SWA.' Watson told TV broadcaster KARE in Minneapolis on Wednesday that after he boarded, an announcement came over the plane asking his family to exit the aircraft. Once at the gate, the agent said that unless the tweet was deleted, police would be called and the family would not be allowed back onboard." He gave into the threat, deleted the Tweet, and was allowed to board a later flight. Southwest, as one could have predicted, offered a boilerplate "apology" and vouchers.
Damn I used to like southwest (Score:4, Insightful)
Kimberly sure sounds like a cunt.
Re:Damn I used to like southwest (Score:4, Informative)
Southwest has gone downhill fast in recent years. I guess their popularity went to their heads. I've been a fan of Delta recently.
Re:Damn I used to like southwest (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Funny)
This... is... Southwest... Airlines...!!!! (Kicks guy off plane)
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
No rights were violated unless Southwest Airlines recently became government owned.
Also observe that nobody stopped the man in question from tweeting anything, it's just that the airline after reading the tweet decided it didn't want to transport this person. And that is fully legal.
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
and threatened to have him arrested? you think that's fully legal? but they (air waitresses) have so much power, they likely COULD cook up something that would cause the guy to go to jail. its absurd that attendants have this much power, but lately in the last 10 or so years, they do. its bullshit but they do have power over you.
if I was the guy being abused like this, I'd ask them 'have you ever heard of the streisand effect. I'll wait, you go look it up and then come back and see if you want the PR fallout that you're gonna get. go google it. here, use my phone.'
no shit, I'd put them on the worry, or at least give them some insight as to the huge mistake THEY are about to make.
they could still cause me trouble, but I would NOT delete a post (I don't tweet or fb) on some company's request unless what I said was truly illegal or against some contract (like an employment contract). but being a CUSTOMER and being threatened with jail unless you remove your freedom-of-speech right, that's just beyond what I would put up with.
at least the story made the news, so the end effect of his post is now the same and the airline did NOT win this time out.
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
And that is fully legal.
NO, IT FUCKING ISN'T!
I seriously doubt their soliciting for getting people to fly with them includes notification of that "if you think we're rude then we will not fly you and just take your money".
I mean, think about it. He paid for a service to be transported and they cancelled that contract based on that he tweeted the one person being rude. Why do you think that would be a legal way of doing things? taking money and not delivering their end of the contract? you also think it's legal for them to just sell tickets and then not fly at all?
Now do you think it would be legal for best buy to come to your house and take your tv away because you stated publicly that the salesman was an ass who tried to rudely pressure you into buying extended warranty? fuck no.
and why do you think they back pedaled? because what they did was "normal"? fuck no it wasn't. the criticized person was just using the powers he had for ANOTHER PURPOSE(purpose of keeping the plane safe) to make him delete the tweet that could negatively affect her career.
so next up - when you complain that comcast is a bunch of fuckers online you think it's also legal for them to cancel your internet.... with that kind of attitudes no wonder americans are corporate bitches getting bled dry into debt.
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy can most definitely file a tort suit against the airline. But are you actually proposing that a carrier of human cargo not be allowed to refuse service?
Taxicabs (Score:5, Insightful)
But are you actually proposing that a carrier of human cargo not be allowed to refuse service?
The idea isn't nearly as absurd as you make it sound. Regulated taxicabs in many cities are not allowed to refuse service - they must pick you up and take you where you want to go.
Re:What?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
If he'd claimed to be kicked off because he was black/white/gay or whatever, there'd be outrage. But because he was only exercising his free speech rights, people don't care that much.
Re:What?!? (Score:4, Funny)
No wait, this is a GOOD thing. Given how hard it can be to cancel your account with some places [slashdot.org], the ability to have it cancelled in 145 characters or less is a major step forward
Re:What?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
No rights were violated unless Southwest Airlines recently became government owned.
Also observe that nobody stopped the man in question from tweeting anything, it's just that the airline after reading the tweet decided it didn't want to transport this person. And that is fully legal.
Actually, you're right...up to the point where the police might get involved. Also, the power that flight attendants and gate agents have (which is backed by the FAA, whereby refusal to comply with their orders is a felony...I kid you not) also crosses the line between private entity/government. Since Kimberly *cough* fucking cunt *cough* had that power backing her up, I would say this does indeed become a First Amendment situation.
So am I. Specifically, violated how? (Score:4, Informative)
What first amendment rights were violated? I'm absolutely serious about this; please point to any violation of first amendment rights anywhere in here.
While you do so, remember that the first amendment restricts the actions of the *government* - that is, it prohibits the making of laws that do certain things - and has absolutely nothing to do with the private sector. Here, let me quote it for you (emphasis mine):
So, which law did SWAirlines cause Congress to pass that violated these people's first amendment rights? Go on, point it out please.
Or were you just mouthing off about stuff you don't understand, trying to get people riled up about an issue that doesn't even exist? Because that... well, let's just say it speaks volumes about your intelligence (and that of the person who modded you up). Volumes that I doubt you would ever read, since apparently you can't be bothered to read (or at least, understand) one of the most important *sentences* ever committed to text in the history of this nation...
Re:What?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Have the police now become nothing more than an enforcement organization? Will they attend and enforce the will of whoever calls them first? Does it need to be a business? Is there a membership fee?
Isn't there any remnant of the idea that they are there to enforce....*the law* ? If so, what was the crime which required a their presence?
Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
Pulling a family off a flight and threatening to summon the police seems pretty intense. They must have done something very bad. What? One of them tweeted about poor customer service before entering the aircraft? That's it?
Did the SWA agent seriously think that threatening the family with not being able to fly and reporting the man to the police (for what?) unless he deleted the tweet would be the end of it? Did the agent think the whole thing would be erased from everyone's memory and it would be as if nobody complained? That's not the way it works. Now everyone in her management chain knows who she is, and not in a good way. Creating a PR incident like this will not go without notice. It's a variant of the Streisand effect.
It's not important to the story, but at least one airline I've flown has figured out that it's good customer service to allow people who spend a lot of money travelling on their airline have their children treated to the same boarding privilege - especially as it costs the airline nothing to do so.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Interesting)
More, she needs to be charged with extortion.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Interesting)
You mean SWA should be charged with extortion? She was acting on behalf of the company.
I'm pretty sure she was far outside the scope of the authority the company granted her to act.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would fire the agent for starters, and whoever was involved.
The gate agent was correct in telling him he could move back in the line to join his kids, but they couldn't cut in line and move up to join him. That's the policy and they tell you this when asking you to line up. The guy was in the wrong and then whined on twitter about how they didn't bend over to kiss his ass. His tweet naming the person could be construed as harassment or slander.
Pulling him off the plane was a poor reaction, even if the intent was just to just to ask him to delete the tweet or at least revise it to delete the persons name. I suspect the agent threatened to call security and have him removed because he continued to be an ass, but that would be a one-sided opinion just like the guy claiming they were rude and threatened him.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Insightful)
"that's the policy."
yeah, we're robots with no brains. we follow orders. don't question stupid rules and never use human judgement. we are humans, but we should be thought of as cattle.
yup, I fully agree.
we should do what we are told and stop thinking. yup, I fully agree. that's pure wisdom. we need more people like you and me. world would be a lot better if we all just shut up and do as we're told.
USA USA USA!
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually outside of the US it seems to be common practice to ask people with young families to board first anyway. It would be for two reasons, the first one is it looks good to look after the children. Second and perhaps the biggest is families take longer to get settled in, young kids need a lot of assistance and you generally have to carry an inordinate amount of crap. If you are blocking the aisle while you buckle seat belts and the like you are slowing the whole boarding process. So it makes sense - send them in with first and business class.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's all good reason for boarding them last - so they don't slow down those who can board quickly.
I promise the plane won't take off without you. What, are you in a hurry to cram yourself into an airline seat instead of enjoying the comfort of the airport lounge for another 10 minutes or so? Entitled much?
Yaz
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Insightful)
TBH, the only reason I want to get on first is to make sure I can put my one bag in the overhead luggage, instead of getting on late and having to explain to a bunch of yahoos that their purse/satchel/gift/other trash belongs under the seat in front of them and not overhead blocking a bag that doesn't fit under the seat.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Interesting)
flight attendants are great at finding a place for oversized luggage clogging up the overhead bins. if the overhead bin is full sit your carryon on your lap and when they ask why it isn't stowed they will fix it or stow your bag nearby...
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Informative)
That annoys me too. I usually pay to check my bag specifically so I can feel entitled putting my camera/laptop bag in the overhead bin and getting a little more legroom for myself. Having to cram stuff at my feet because others are too cheap to check cases (or even gate check them when it's free) is frustrating.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's all good reason for boarding them last - so they don't slow down those who can board quickly.
Huh? How does that produce greater efficiency? Let's see, we could:
(1) Let families board with the first half-dozen groups of random people with various privileges ("Now let's have our first class..." [2 people board, a minute later] "Now let's have business class..." [5 people board, two minutes later] "Now let's have our elite Silver whoop-di-do members..." [no one boards, three minutes later] "Now let's have our Bronze not-so-much-whoop members" [2 guys from the back take 30 seconds to realize they were called and slowly make their way up, chatting on their phones the whole way]... etc., etc.).
In that case, the families could get settled with almost no one else on the plane, and almost no one else in economy trying to find their seats.
OR...
(2) We wait until last, and the families join the end of the long line stopped almost at the gate itself of people waiting to get on. The families with more bags per person and more people to strap in and get settled in their seats per person then spend 10 minutes wandering up and down the aisles trying to find places for their bags and get their kids settled... while the attendants get increasingly testy as they have to go up and down reopening luggage bins and find a pillow for Jr. since he's asleep on Dad's shoulder and no one on the plane wants him to wake up when he's strapped in the seat. And the plane is now going to take off late because we needed 15 minutes to board 10 whoop-di-do members who didn't have to do anything, but now it's crunch-time for the parents who could have already been settled in.
I completely understand why airlines do NOT let families on early, because they now charge people extra for those privileges. But if they were trying to maximize efficiency instead of profits, it would definitely make sense to move the families on when fewer people are obstacles on the plane.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Funny)
I say, throw a knife into a group of waiting passengers and let the first one to emerge alive board first.
In other words, let the invisible hand of the free market decide.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Funny)
What's this socialist bullshit about providing a "free" knife? Use your shoelaces to strangle people, hippie.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, you really want them to board first.
For the last year, up until last month, I was barely able to walk. I still had to fly for work. I boarded flights with the kids and anyone else that needed help.
The parent doesn't just stow their stuff and sit down. They stow the kids bags, get the kids to sit down, shut up, buckles on, no you can't go to the bathroom, blah, blah, blah.
For me, it took me about 4x as long just to get down the airway. A guy barely walking down the ramp with passengers walking normal speed definitely held up the flow, no matter how much room I tried to leave. I still got held up by the parents with kids, and I didn't care. I'd just sit on the nearest armrest until they were done.
You don't want me, or the parents with kids slowing you down. People are assholes enough boarding planes.
If you wait for them to board last, now you'll have parents trying to stow bags in the last few spots (if there are any), trying to get the kids in their seats at the same time, and having the kid(s) climbing over other passengers.
For me, barely able to walk, if I had to take the window seat, that would mean everyone in the other seat(s) would have to move. Walking on a cane, I wasn't able to just squeeze by anyone, especially if there were no good seats available. It was still hard just to get *to* the window seat.
And before any of you complain, since surgery I can walk fine. The cane is retired at least for another 30 years.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Interesting)
And before any of you complain, since surgery I can walk fine.
Did you just apologize to a bunch of whiny pricks for being crippled?! What the fuck, man?
I'm glad you got surgery. Thanks for the account of your experiences.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually not really. Imaging you are a family of 4. Mum is leading the two kids and dad is carrying all the bags looking a bit like a stressed donkey. Try as dad might I can guarantee you that some of the seats are going to get whacked by those bags as you go down those incredibly narrow aisles. Now your choice. Would you rather the chair get hit with the bag or your face get hit by the bag. It's not on purpose and god knows parents will do everything (including drugging their kids) to not have them impact others but sometimes it will impact other people. You will only understand this when you have kids yourself.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Informative)
How common is ad-hoc seating? Surely in most cases, seats are allocated at check-in.
This story is about Southwest Airlines, and ad-hoc seating is all they do. I feel sorry for the unlucky bastard who gets on last and sits in the pilot seat. They really pack them to the brim now, and phone in the flying and beverage services.
Re: (Score:3)
Southwest has never had assigned seating. It's first come first served.
Re: (Score:3)
They have a set limit. There's a little metal basket that if your bag can't fit in you're not supposed to take it on the plane. The fault lies largely with the airlines for not enforcing it, but also partially with passengers who don't give a fuck because the rules don't apply to them.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Funny)
5kg? Do you have any idea what a slashdotter's gaming laptop weighs?
Re: (Score:3)
Then, you have front passengers going to up/down the aisle and needing to pass each other to put their carryons in the rear.
Repeat the whole process when deplaning.
Re: Customer service? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually outside of the US it seems to be common practice to ask people with young families to board first anyway.
Yeah, it often is within the U.S. too, particularly for infants and very young children. But I mostly see it used for parents with kids in strollers or whatever, not for older kids or even relatively small kids.
If you are blocking the aisle while you buckle seat belts and the like you are slowing the whole boarding process. So it makes sense - send them in with first and business class.
Yeah, the problem is the escalation of fee structures in recent years. 15 years ago your policy made perfect sense. But now most airlines charge for any checked baggage, which means more people stuff everything into larger carry-ons, and many planes don't have enough room to stuff everyone's bag in.
So, everyone's worried about boarding early enough so that they don't have to have their bag stuffed 10 seats behind them, which will make them the last off the plane.
But, of course, it isn't enough for airlines to charge fees for checked bags -- now they figured out that people don't want to worry about the hassle of finding space for their carry-on, so now for an extra fee many airlines will let you board early (with business class or whatever).
So, it makes it really hard for the airlines to "give away" that option to families to board earlier, when somebody else in coach paid $35 or whatever that day for that privilege. In addition, there seem to be a lot of folks out there who assume that anyone travelling with a small child on a plane must be an evil person wanting to annoy other travelers deliberately by bringing a kid on board (when the reality is that most parents know they usually only travel with small kids on planes when there is no other reasonable choice). So, it will just lead to even more (unjustified?) feelings of unfairness if these parents are given seemingly special privileges.
It's the same crap that causes people to cut people off or not let people merge in traffic. Sometimes it's worth a really insignificant sacrifice to let everything flow better, and letting the kids on early would probably make the entire boarding process faster and smoother. But most people would probably just resent it... and so airlines don't do it anymore.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Interesting)
I blame the assholes who have seats in the rear, but stuff their carryons in the front because they're too lazy to carry them up and down the aisle.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Funny)
Enjoy your flight Mr. Type - A person, and then enjoy finding your damn bag because you left it out of your sight.
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Funny)
I have a great solution for this. Everytime I see this happening, I take the bag down and pop it on the floor on a vacant seat. Eventually the bag makes it into the overhead lockers... somewhere. Enjoy your flight Mr. Type - A person, and then enjoy finding your damn bag because you left it out of your sight.
I think I've been on a plane with you sir, and I salute you wholeheartedly. One time a guy game from the back of the plane mid-flight (fasten seat belt light is on due to turbulence mind you), walks to the front row and starts looking for his bag. He can't find it and starts going through the overhead bins. He gets halfway through the plane on one side before a flight attendant came up and asked him what he was doing. He said someone stole his bag off the plane and went crazy. Flight attendant finally told him to sit down and to not look for his bag again or they would land the plane and the local police would help him find his bag when they hauled him off (this due to his belligerence). It all makes sense now!
Re:Customer service? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also I would add. I have done a large number of long haul flights with my two girls and I learnt something from a pilot I met once. His advice was carry the kids car seat and put them in that. So now you will see me wheeling a compact fold up pram with two car seats precariously balanced on top of them as I make my way through the airport. When I get on the plane the car seat gets strapped into the chair and the kid into the car seat.
Two big reasons - 1 the can't get out of those. 5 point harness and a kid proof clip. 2 the first time my eldest had a seat of her own was the worst flight of my life. She would fall asleep in her chair and slump against the airplane seat belt. It would slowly loosen off till she fell out of the seat. Can you imaging the horror of a 2 year old who keeps being woken up every 15 minutes on a 24 hour flight... Oh dear god.... I spent 5 hours on the last leg walking back and forth in the crew area carrying her as it was the only way to stop the screaming.......
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Interesting)
To play devils advocate... maybe.
While from time to time we hear stories like this of some employee who acts in a rather bad way PR wise... how often do you think similar events happen and that we never hear about them? Probably a lot more.
The morning after a canceled connection flight I had a gate agent threaten to call security on me for using the word 'safety' with regards to my knees being impacted against the seat in front of me on the upcoming flight.
Granted... it was an excuse for her as she didn't like my attitude (I didn't like having to employ it), I didn't call the media or tweet about the incident, I just pledged to avoid that airline in future... and later upgraded it to a blanket ban after the next time I used the airline (4 years later) a similar event happened where my connecting flight was cancelled and trapping me in the same airport.
Re: (Score:3)
You assume that security being called on me would have allowed me to board my flight as I had planned.
That being said, I am not saying both situations are the same, my point was and is that I expect that this story is not unique and that only a portion of them do we ever hear about.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes... but what will the effect be? Will people avoid Southwest Airlines? Can they (afford to) avoid them? Or do they simply avoid any criticism since they know that will invite retaliation?
I think the US is already past the tipping point, where stories like this won't cause a backlash so much as accomodation. People can only be treated as helpless subjects of the powers that be for so long before they internalize the attitude, after all.
Re:Customer service? (Score:5, Informative)
Spoken like someone who doesn't have kids. He wasn't line cutting - he just wanted his kids with him so they could sit together.
Yes, he "just wanted his kids with him", so he CUT THE LINE. Hey guess what OTHER way he could have had his kids with him? By getting on board with them in their assigned boarding spot!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Is there an SWA Twitter police? (Score:5, Insightful)
How did Southwest find out about this tweet?
Do they have a team of people sitting around watching a Twitter feed, so that if anyone mentions Southwest they can pounce?
If so, good job guys! You really saved the day here. SWA stock is going to go up tomorrow for sure! :^)
Re:Is there an SWA Twitter police? (Score:5, Insightful)
AFAIK, he told the agent he made the tweet, so his "I'll show you" attitude figured into the equation. The agents' "You're not the boss of me" attitude was also a part. Result: Two asshats vie for the title of "Biggest Dick". And they both won.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Is there an SWA Twitter police? (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely. Have a bad day, make one wrong judgment call, and see your livelihood vanish. Good luck getting another job.
Fired? Maybe not, unless this was a pattern of bad behavior. Suspended for a week or two? Yes, absolutely.
Where do you work, I wonder, that you believe people who have flaws, like we all do, should be treated like used tissues?
Just my opinion, but this goes beyond a minor "flaw" or a slight error in judgment. The guy had already shown his willingness to publicize his dissatisfaction by tweeting about a minor inconvenience, and this employee provided him with a much worse story to tell. Any person with common sense should have seen this as the potential for some seriously bad publicity.
There were many ways to handle this and defray the damage from the initial tweet, from a sincere apology and perhaps offer for free future tickets or upgrade (if the employee wanted to use kindness) or a response tweet thanking the customer for his feedback and also thanking all the other customers for following the rules (if the employee wanted to be passive aggressive but still make a point).
Escalating a minor disagreement with a customer into a public fight is just not a good idea, and employees who can't avoid that do deserve punishment. Customers can be jerks sometimes. Employees have a corporate image to uphold, though, and they need to aspire to a higher standard -- they're getting paid to be there. The customer was not.
Re: (Score:3)
"Where do you work, I wonder, that you believe people who have flaws, like we all do, should be treated like used tissues?"
Probably a place where police/SWAT don't show up with machine guns if he whines "Timmy's being mean to me".
Re:Is there an SWA Twitter police? (Score:5, Insightful)
Where do you work, I wonder, that you believe people who have flaws, like we all do, should be treated like used tissues?
I've worked in retail. I've dealt with real assholes. I have NEVER EVER even come anywhere near the kind of absolutely unacceptable behavior exhibited by this agent, nor did I ever see any my colleagues do anything remotely like it not ever. She absolutely should be fired.
Complaining to the guy, OK. Calling him off the plane, questionable. Threatening to call the police over a complaint, fired, ASAP.
Think about it for a minute--why was she so anxious to get rid of the tweet? Because she knew she was going to be in trouble. So instead of trying anything at all to de-escalate, she threatens to call the police, in order to COVER HER OWN ASS.
Re: (Score:3)
SW Should Pay! (Score:3)
Give #$%^#% like this 24 or 48 hours (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. But this immediate rush to blame/defend lets rumors fly around while the truth takes its time.
He is lucky not being labelled a terrorist... (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, he committed several unforgivable sins in a police state:
1. Being critical of authority
2. Having an opinion about authority, instead of accepting it as god-like
3. Communicating said opinion
I see sedition, inciting violence and refusing to let proper authority mishandle him. Of course, if he let them call the police, he would probably have been shot.
Southwest Boarding Policies (Score:5, Informative)
You get a boarding pass with A 1 thru 60, B 1 thru 60, or C 1 thru 60 and everyone boards in that order. The A people get great seats and C people get crap (center seats, back of the plane, no seats together for people traveling together, etc).
Frequent fliers get to skip ahead board between A and B groups (assuming they didn't have and A anyway) which still has lots of good seats free. Families traveling with children 4 or under also get to board before the B group (so they can get seats together).
This guy probably had high number B or C tickets and wanted to use his "A-list" frequent flier status to board early and get 3 seats together with his kids. But his kids didn't have "A-list" status and where too old to qualify for family boarding so they would have wait for their high boarding number to get on the plane.
Re: (Score:3)
ie. their boarding system is utter shit to begin with.
Works Fine For Me (Score:5, Insightful)
ie. their boarding system is utter shit to begin with.
A matter of opinion. It works very well if you pre-print your boarding passes 24 hours before departure time. I have *NEVER* had anything but A or B.
Southwest (who still does not charge for 2 checked bags) has always treated my wife and I well. We have traveled with our grand children many times.
If you know and follow the well established and well know rules for obtaining your boarding pass and boarding the jet, it's a very smooth process.
But on the other hand, if you're an "entitled power flyer", your asshole attitude will get you nowhere.
Re:Southwest Boarding Policies (Score:5, Informative)
Don't forget that you can upgrade to A-List for $12.50 a ticket. If it's that important to board with your family pay for the upgrade.
2nd tweet (Score:5, Interesting)
this story is missing information (Score:3, Insightful)
my guess is that things were not as one sided as this story leads to believe.
just because a passenger is a customer that should be treated with respect does NOT mean that the passenger doesn't have to follow crewmember instructions. if the passenger was being particularly difficult because he had his two snowflakes in tow and did not want to abide by Southwest's procedures, he should not be allowed on the plane.
given what's happened recently in aviation, one would think safety is important. safety shouldn't be shrugged off merely because a passenger whines when he doesn't get out of the ordinary preferential treatment.
Re: (Score:3)
How does making the passenger delete a tweet improve safety?
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, there is, of course. As described in TFA, the woman certainly qualifies for the term. Anybody abusing their power over others is a bad person ("bitch", "asshole" — pick your gender-specific name). And, in addition, malicious prosecution — which she threatened to bring upon him — is a felony, you know...
If complaining on Tweeter about rud
The lesson here isn't to be quiet, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
to tweet her rudeness after you land.
*Ding* (Score:4, Funny)
Intercom: "You are now free to get the fuck off mah plane."
We also would have accepted:
Intercom: "You are not free to tweet about our customer service."
almost should have let her call (Score:3)
If there was any good chance of a reasoning being on the other end of her call to the police, it would have been worth it to let her call and then have the LEO "explain" to her the (unfortunately rare) consequences of filing a false complaint, then watching HER be arrested for disrupting the flight. As it is, of course, ...
Re:name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Using publically visible information (nametag & gate sign) to state an opinion constitutes harassment?
God help the reviewers on Yelp or Angie'sList who give their opinions on different businesses.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do you assume her consent would be required?
The airport is a public place and there is little right to privacy or anonymity when in public... doubly so when you are wearing a name tag.
airports are reduced rights zones after 9/11 (Score:4, Informative)
airports are reduced rights zones after 9/11
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Informative)
http://definitions.uslegal.com... [uslegal.com]
"A public place is generally an indoor or outdoor area, whether privately or publicly owned, to which the public have access by right or by invitation, expressed or implied, whether by payment of money or not, but not a place when used exclusively by one or more individuals for a private gathering or other personal purpose."
US airports are public places. Just because it is private property doesn't automatically mean it's not a public space. If you turn your home into a B&B, it becomes a public space, even though it is your private property. You can have private clubhouses and private airports but the moment you leave the door unlocked and put up a sign that you're open to the public, the presumption of privacy is gone.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm wondering a little differently. I wonder how plugged in that gate representative must of been to find and successfully identify the source of the tweet and call the family off the plane before it left.
I say this because I don't see some SWA social media monitoring department demanding the tweet be removed in that fashion. I figure it was the 'dissed' gate rep herself that did it.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:4, Interesting)
That was my knee-jerk reaction as well. Thinking it though, SouthWest must have a group dedicated to monitoring social media postings in order to respond that quickly. Surely this group is familiar with the Streisand Effect, and would not take such action against the passenger. Rather, I suspect the punitive action came from the same gate attendant that the passenger complained about.
Gate attendant gets pissy with passenger -> passenger posts complaint -> SW social media group reads complaint -> SW calls gate attendant and tells her to fix it (i.e. apologize) or it will come up at her performance review -> pissy gate attendant calls passenger back to the gate and threatens him.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Doubtful. More plausible is that the guy bragged to the flight attendand that he sent the tweet.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Informative)
Airports are NOT public places, particularly the Gates at airports.
They are called places of public accommodation just like restaurants. There is zero expectation of privacy for the employees in areas where there is customer access. Members of the public have access to them. Specifically... any members of the public who have paid a fee and obtained a ticket.
Re: (Score:3)
"Go ahead, make my day..."
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:4, Insightful)
Kimberly did not volunteer the information for internet signage. Harassment.
Nor do businesses and people reported to the better business bureau, angie's list, amazon.com, ebay and similar rating services. While the tweet seems harsh based on the given information, the father didn't do anything but report tweet her name that was visible on her publicly displayed name badge. Airlines, just like stores, have employees where such badges so the public knows who has done them wrong or right and can report to management the actions.
While the tweet seems harsh given the limited information presented and probably foolish, it isn't harassment. Likewise, over-reacting to an airline employee normally will get you removed from a plane and possibly arrested, so he should be happy that he was only delayed in his trip.
Re:name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Insightful)
harassment/hrasm()nt,harsm()nt/
noun
aggressive pressure or intimidation.
What kind of sycophant would label this tweet as harassment?
Also, what type of asshole employee would separate a man from his two young children?
Finally, it would be great to see the 180 degree flip in reaction if the airline attendant had been male and the passenger had been female with her two young children.
Re:name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Men really need to start to stand up for equal rights.
Re: name and location tweeted... (Score:4, Interesting)
+3
I see this and experience this often. So much so that when out with my wife and kids I'll get her to ask for things or handle certain things because she will get much better treatment than I despite the fact that I'm usually a lot more polite than my wife.
This really does need fixing but these days I think most men feel like they can't even mention it because they have lost before they start. Women's rights have done a lot for them but eventually they will pass the goal and go too far. I even read recently I can't remember her name but she is supposedly the founder of the woman's rights movement and she wrote that she made a mistake and regrets it and that men should be men and that we each have unique roles to play.
Anyway, this was off topic but it's one of those things that needs attention.
Re:name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Informative)
Also, what type of asshole employee would separate a man from his two young children?
The employee suggested no such thing. She said that the man would have to wait until his children were able to board, and then they could board together.
Re:name and location tweeted... (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the part most stories won't include about this incident. The father was an A passenger meaning he gets to board first. Southwest also has B and C classifications.
Someone called in to the talk show I was listening who was also an A passenger and explained the complete process. A passengers board first, then B and C. However, since the person had children, despite his A status, he would have boarded between the A and B groups. That is Southwest policy and has been since whenever.
This person attempted to circumvent the established policy by trying to pull a "Do you know who I am?" deal. All he had to do was wait for the A group to board then he could have boarded with his children.
Instead, he was an ass and publicly gave the name of a worker who was doing what company policy was, though she probably should have explained the policy since obviously this guy didn't know, or didn't care, what it was.
So there you have it. Asshole thinks they're someone important and tries to jump the line ends up being shown the door for his stupidity and whininess.
Re: this is messed up.. but what's worse (Score:5, Informative)
Re:RUDEST PASSENGER EVER (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:RUDEST PASSENGER EVER (Score:5, Insightful)
Not disagreeing, but clarifying
The way I read it, he had a 1st class ticket, but his kids were traveling economy. So he was trying to board them at the same time as first class, even though they were not.
On his other leg, the boarding agent allowed it. But on this portion the boarding agents disagreed.
So, rather than recognizing that the other agent had been extra nice granting him a privilege, he disparaged the one who followed the rules.
I'm sure there is more to the story, but the whole thing won't come out cause SW and the agent won't say anything else.
I also don't doubt that someone went a little excessive, but I suspect both sides overreacted.
Re:RUDEST PASSENGER EVER (Score:5, Informative)
The way I read it, he had a 1st class ticket, but his kids were traveling economy. So he was trying to board them at the same time as first class, even though they were not.
There is only one class on Southwest: Cattle Class. When you check in prior to your flight, you are assigned a boarding group and number. Groups are A, B, and C from 1 through 60. A1 through A15 are reserved for Business Select and other special privileges (including frequent flier miles). Other than getting to board earlier and have a wider selection of seats, they are all the same.
According to Southwest's policy, people travelling together but with different boarding positions have the option to board together, provided the person higher up in line waits with the people further back. How this applies to families, I'm fuzzy on, but I would assume if you have a business select or other pass that allows boarding in the A1 through A15 group, it would make sense to have young children (say, under 10 years old) board with you. It seems like this is what the guy had done on several flights previously.
What the gate agent did was apply the boarding policy in the strictest possible terms, which IMO was an asshole move. But it was still technically according to policy. Did he get lucky, or was this particular agent just being overly strict? Could be either or. Pulling them off the flight for a tweet, however, was completely uncalled for. Threatening to call the police unless he deleted said tweet was harassment, plain and simple. Plus, how in the hell did she figure out who it was so quickly? Was she on twitter while she was supposed to be working, or did some corporate wonk call the gate?
I've been a customer of Southwest for a while, but how they handle this in the long run will determine wether or not I continue to be.
Re: (Score:3)
LOL, (Score:5, Interesting)
I (an American) just went on a vacation where I entered Russia, then France, then Russia, then the US on my way home. It went like this:
Russia: "What plane did you get off of?" "OK, [stamp]"
France: "Welcome! [stamp]"
Russia: "Welcome back, Tovarish! [stamp]"
US: "Spread 'em, Cocksucker. What's this in your bag? Get in this line - no, the other line! Papers, please! Is this your family? Who packed your suitcase? Look into the camera. Make your wife look into the camera. Submit to bacterial scanning. Put your bags in the X-Ray machine and leave them there until they start to smoke. OK, Meatwad, we'll let you in, but consider this a warning!"
This place has gotten so xenophobic it's silly.
Re:LOL, (Score:5, Interesting)
I (an American) just went on a vacation where I entered Russia, then France, then Russia, then the US on my way home. It went like this:
Russia: "What plane did you get off of?" "OK, [stamp]" France: "Welcome! [stamp]" Russia: "Welcome back, Tovarish! [stamp]" US: "Spread 'em, Cocksucker. What's this in your bag? Get in this line - no, the other line! Papers, please! Is this your family? Who packed your suitcase? Look into the camera. Make your wife look into the camera. Submit to bacterial scanning. Put your bags in the X-Ray machine and leave them there until they start to smoke. OK, Meatwad, we'll let you in, but consider this a warning!"
This place has gotten so xenophobic it's silly.
It's not xenophobia. It's eleutherophobia. I'd almost say fear of fellow citizens, but that's just paranoia, and not entirely accurate.
Re:LOL, (Score:5, Funny)
Glory to Arstotzka
Re:LOL, (Score:5, Interesting)
That's why the US is called "The Land of the Free".
Tell that to people often enough and they'll start to believe it. Even if the reality is completely the opposite.
Re: (Score:3)
https://twitter.com/SouthwestAir [twitter.com]
Re:Obligatory Slashdot knee jerk (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't lie.
You'll pick the most convenient time or cheapest price, regardless of the airline company.