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The Internet Businesses Crime The Almighty Buck

Analyzing Silk Road 2.0 68

An anonymous reader writes: After a recent article about breaking the CAPTCHA on the latest incarnation of Silk Road (the darknet-enabled drug market place), Darryl Lau decided to investigate exactly what narcotics people were buying and selling online. He found roughly 13,000 separate listings. Some sellers identify the country they're in, and the top six are the U.S., Australia, England, Germany, and the Netherlands, and Canada. The site also has a bunch of product reviews. If you assume that each review comes from a sale, and multiply that by the listed prices, reviewed items alone represent $20 million worth of business. Lau also has some interesting charts, graphs, and assorted stats. MDMA is the most listed and reviewed drug, and sellers are offering it in quantities of up to a kilogram at a time. The average price for the top 1000 items is $236. Prescription drugs represent a huge portion of the total listings, though no individual prescription drugs have high volume on their own.
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Analyzing Silk Road 2.0

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  • mmmm drugs (Score:3, Funny)

    by Nyder ( 754090 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @04:30AM (#48025777) Journal

    nm, i'm stoo stoned to remember what I was going to post.

    • by flyneye ( 84093 )

      They say my chocolate chip cookies are addictive.
      Who will bit $10 a dozen?
      Come on man, you know you want them.
      I can hook you up.

  • 236 dollars buys you what? A boatload of cocain? One MDMA pill? That's no way to get any relevant information out of research.
    • There's is a bit on information to extract from that:
      "The system isn't being used to only do major, hundreds of dollars, deals."

      And also:
      "On average, buyers are way past the free shipping minimum amount".

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by dowsell ( 3817747 )

        I'd suggest that the order size is determined by to competing factors:

              a) Reduce the risk of being caught by making fewer large orders
              b) Reduce the loss when a delivery goes astray by making smaller orders

        Which leads to the unexpected conclusion that when the police get better at intercepting orders and the drug dealers become more reliable the size of the orders increases.

    • 236 dollars buys you what?

      Around 3 to 3.5 grams of MDMA crystals/powder. The therapeutic dosage of MDMA is 125mg.


  • In order for this research to be of any use we need peer reviews as well.

    Can they please go into some detail as to the methodology used to connect to Silk Road 2.0, how they purchased things anonymously and how to tell teh real thing from fakes?

    Also, if they have any idea of how to hide a kilo of say uhm, feathers from the authorities in terms of shipment, delivery and pickup that would be great for uhm, scientific purposes.
    • by hodet ( 620484 )

      All he did was use a web scraper with some code to handle captchas and to create a new user account when he was logged out by the site. Yes, a complete methodology would be better but it still is interesting to read what he did. I wouldn't quote his research in anything serious, but it is still interesting. Looks like he will be posting the code for is scraper to github, without the SilkRoad parts which I don't really understand why. Take it for what it is I guess, a good collection of observations for

  • The price is only so high because these drugs are illegal. I can't see the page (slashdotted?), but chances are that these drugs would not even be worthwhile to sell if the price was not driven up by making them illegal.
    • "No legal supply raises price of goods."

      I don't think that gonna make the news at 11.

      • No, but dollars don't say anything. Weight or volume or things like "enough to ensure world peace by getting each soldier world-wide high for 20 years" are more descriptive.
    • by swb ( 14022 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:25AM (#48026037)

      Aspirin still costs money, even in generic store brands.

      My understanding is that total synthesis of opiates is possible but remains complicated and low yield, so you still need to obtain raw opium for it to be cost effective to produce opiate derivitives like morphine. Factor in a global supply chain, FDA-certified production and the price you pay at the pharmacy for generic oxycodone is probably priced accurately.

      If it was available retail I would probably expect raw material excise taxes and consumption taxes to double the current pharmacy pricing.

      In theory pot should be cheap like most agricultural commodities if produced at industrial scale but AFAIK in Colorado it remains curiously expensive. Not sure if this is due to taxes, the legal-but-not-federally legal status that results in all kinds of extra transaction costs for businesses involved in its production and sale or due to the demand and associated costs with producing many varities of a premium product through "artisinal" production methods.

      • Colorado can't be allowed to be a supplier to other states' black markets so the price is controlled. The pharmacy system also has artificially high prices (see licensed pill counters paid over $100,000 and pricing that can vary by a 1000%)
        • by swb ( 14022 )

          I had orthopedic surgery last winter and I was paying like $13 for forty 5 mg oxycodone pills. It's hard to see that price getting too much lower regardless of who counts them.

          Think about it -- generic oxycodone is made where? India? There's probably zero intellectual property licensing involved, labor costs are low and regulation probably at the minimum required to import it. It's geographically close to the raw materials. High health care costs in the US mean that marketing for a generic, common medi

          • I had orthopedic surgery last winter and I was paying like $13 for forty 5 mg oxycodone pills.

            That's not the same as saying that 40 5mg pills cost $13 though, that's just the cost to you. The manufacturer's price is higher, and they're getting paid by your insurance company. Sadly, I haven't found any insurance company that will go in with me on Silk Road purchases.

            • by swb ( 14022 )

              No, that was not the insurance co-pay, that was the cash price. Most pharmacies I've ever used charge the cash price if it is lower than the co-pay.

      • I think it's the latter. While marijuana production and even growing your own is legal under state law, it's still heavily regulated -- but much less so than it was before legalization.

  • Are the captcha so ineffective?

    He uses OpenCV for pre-process and Tesseract for OCR, and has >90% success for captchas...
    That's great but how do sites counter bots nowdays?

    • by Anonymous Coward

      The captcha generator they used is really old and has been solved for ages. It's not called simple_captcha for nothing. Here's another solution explained in detail: mieko/sr-captcha [github.com] It's really trivial, you don't need any math or AI to figure it out.

      The short answer is: SR and SR2 captchas aren't alike, but SR2 is just as trivial. SR2 is also probably fully solvable (99%+) without machine learning, as all of its operations are reversible.

      (my emphasis) WTF

    • by plover ( 150551 )

      That's great but how do sites counter bots nowdays?

      Bots are like any other parasite. If you have something they need, they arrive, and you have to figure out how to control them. And like controlling parasites, the most effective means is to take away their food source. So sites reduce the value of their site to spammers, black-hat SEOs, etc., by measures such as adding nofollow tags, preventing CSRF, restricting and filtering user uploaded content, and vigilant policing. And CAPTCHAs still help a lot, but as the sophistication of the bot tools is expan

    • That's great but how do sites counter bots nowdays?

      Why would Silk Road want to censor Viagra offers?

  • by DocSavage64109 ( 799754 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:45AM (#48026639)
    This is the first slashvertisement I've seen here that hasn't generated a single complaint! Does seem to indicate that the war on drugs is a losing battle.
  • by Scottingham ( 2036128 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:59AM (#48026717)
    It seems that this is pretty good proof that there is a demand for reputable MDMA. Perhaps the club scene would be safer if there were less mystery powders claiming to be "Molly". If the dosage was known steps could be taken to provide the most fun for the least amount of harm (it sure as hell isn't harmless).

    It's also purportedly good for therapy too. I plan to get some for my parents on their 50th anniversary.
    • How do you powder molly [wikimedia.org]?
      • by Anonymous Coward

        http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/AMAG200%20Heavy%20Duty%20Bench%20Grinder.jpg

    • It seems that this is pretty good proof that there is a demand for reputable MDMA.

      The SR vendor you're looking for is Geoffrey Giraffe.

      If the dosage was known steps could be taken to provide the most fun for the least amount of harm (it sure as hell isn't harmless).

      The therapeutic dose is 125mg, with an optional 62.5mg an hour or so in. Note that the additional dose doesn't typically cause any increase in intensity, it just makes it last a little longer. The first dose usually determines the intensity.

  • by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:28AM (#48026977) Homepage Journal

    Of course it is a Honey Pot people .

    • It just attracts idiots. Silk Road is, purportedly, viable now because you can buy things anonymously--over Tor, with Bitcoin.

      And have them shipped to a physical address.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        yea but when it comes to trusting that mr mailman wont come with mr swat team in tow is the real issue. its hard to trust 2.0 when 1.0 was obviously fubar

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