A Smart Electric Bike: Taking the Copenhagen Wheel Out For a Spin 136
New submitter mlamonica writes Bikes are a great way to get around the city. But what if it's just too hilly or far to commute by bike? That's where Superpedestrian wants to come in. With a license from MIT's Senseable City Lab, they're commercializing the Copenhagen Wheel, a bike wheel replacement that gives riders electric assist, and through 12 embedded sensors, lots of information on a smart phone app. I took the bike for a ride at the Cambridge office and offer this review.
too expensive (Score:1)
I can buy a kit on eBay for $250.
too expensive (Score:1)
Re: too expensive (Score:2)
How exactly is illegality which no one will ever bother to detect or check a problem? Besides not all of the kits allow going over 20 mph which I believe is the typical limit.
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The United States market doesn't fall into that "most places on Earth" -- laws are state-by-state, but most follow CSPC guidelines, which puts the limit at 1hp (750W), or 20mph, and has no pedal-assist requirement.
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Indeed. I wonder how much the Bill of Materials is. The innovation premium appears to be too high on this one.
Cars are quite reasonably priced in US. Why are motorcycles so expensive though? (lack of a mass market making them special interest products?) For the price of an $800 electric wheel, one can buy an entire motorcycle from a recognized brand in Asia (starting from $500), where cars cost about the same as in US.
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I'm pretty sure this is patented. Currie Tech came out with such a wheel, and then quickly discontinued all mention of it. Since the focus of Currie Tech seems to be Chinese imports, I suspect that their wheel is manufactured and sold in China, where such issues as IP ownership are less formidable than here.
That said, I'm not sure I'd want such a wheel, because I'd be concerned about loss of control. Every so often with my $450 currie tech bike, the pedal assist kicks in where it is unwanted, like at a lig
what's the point? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't see the point of all this electronics or intelligence in a bicycle. If anything, the location tracking means that bicycles now also are starting to invade my privacy.
For regular distances, a purely mechanical bike is simple, robust, and inexpensive. For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this, and the additional design freedom from designing bike and assist together likely results in a better and cheaper bike.
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I don't see the point of all this electronics or intelligence in a bicycle. If anything, the location tracking means that bicycles now also are starting to invade my privacy.
Or my bivacy, if you know what I mean.
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Electric bikes are not just for long distances, but also for hilly areas or strong winds.
Under those circumstances, unless 1) you're young and strong and 2) can ride to work in lycra, EVs are the solution.
Incidently, in the Netherlands and its strong winds, 20% of new bikes are EVs.
Peak oil will take of this.
Re:what's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which part of "For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this" did you not understand?
Electric bikes are useful (I have one). Retrofits of mechanical bikes by stuffing tons of electronics into the rear wheel seem like a lousy compromise.
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Electric bikes tend to be lousy bikes. Much better to convert a bike, but I'd go for a traditional system not the Copenhagen wheel full of proprietary crap.
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Remember the ones that had little gasoline engines rather than electric? They'd use a lawn-mower engine. Don't know how well they worked but you can still get the conversion kits.
http://www.bicycle-power.com/d... [bicycle-power.com]
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That may be, but there are always folks who want to build something with their own hands. Considering how many different kits are available, there must be plenty of demand, and they must work well enough to stay in business against the integrated solutions.
And total price may be a factor, especially if a person already owns the two major parts.
Re: what's the point? (Score:2)
Where I live electric bikes are for old drunks with suspended license because of dui conviction.
Re:what's the point? (Score:5, Informative)
A pedal-assist system (one that only helps, but will never do all the work), can be just the boost that some people need to start exercising.
The gentleman that I bought my used electric-assist bike from was so weak that he was unable to cycle any reasonable distance without assistance. After using the assisted bike (with a custom rack for his oxygen tank!) for a year and a half, he decided to switch to a regular bicycle.
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For longer distances, vehicles designed from the ground up for motor assist seem a better choice than this,
Why?
and the additional design freedom from designing bike and assist together likely results in a better and cheaper bike.
Why?
You simply make bald assertions and then do not support them. How did you get up-modded for this? I must know your secret.
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All of this stuff is irrelevant to most users, unless it's a total lemon. Most users don't want to go that far on a bike.
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Really? Where I'm from, "range anxiety" is a thing -- people buying an electric vehicle don't want to run out of power off in the middle of nowhere.
I was an Optibike owner back in the day, and active on their mailing list -- one of the questions we got most often from folks deciding on whether or not to buy was how realistic the range numbers were (something like 47 miles in economy mode on the internal battery alone, and 105 with the external touring battery).
Re:what's the point? (Score:4)
If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
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If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
Yeah, what he said. Also, I really wish I could eat Buffalo wings outside of Buffalo.
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Switching from a car to an electric bike did my health a huge amount of good commuting from Austin to Round Rock -- a 30-minute drive was a 50 minute assisted bike ride (acceptable), or a 90 minute unassisted bike ride each way (not always acceptable). Getting tha
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Did you actually read my post at all? You're not getting any exercise on a Vespa.
On an Opti, you get where you're going, and you're maintaining an 80-100rpm cadence getting there.
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I owned a little Piaggio MP3 at the time -- that was my drive vehicle if for some reason I couldn't bike -- and yup, it's a great option... but, well, there's something to be said for arriving at work having just finished a nice workout as opposed to having just spent time breathing fumes on I-35. Did wonders for my stress level, and no better way to get exercise than to have it be over the course of accomplishing something you were going to do (and spend time and money on) anyhow.
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If it was designed for hilly cities, "Copenhagen wheel" is kind of a hilariously off-the-mark branding.
What you did there, I see it.
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I'm waiting for the San Fransisco wheel
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We need electronic sensors in order to avoid having to wear "skintight spandex" when we bicycle commute?
rotating mass (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure the wheel is the best place for the battery! TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton, and it's rotating mass. I'd rather have a hub motor but have a small battery pack affixed elsewhere, maybe in a bottle cage, where it doesn't have to rotate.
Also the topping out at 20 MPH is a little low. It would surely be useful in conditions of headwinds or uphills, where you cannot ride very fast, so that's nice. But for normal cruising, 20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who isn't elderly. I can just do it on flat ground with no winds, and I'm 52. Younger riders have no problems at all. I understand it's a regulatory issue but it would be nice if the top speed could be upped just a little, maybe to 25 mph. It's far harder to ride 25 mph on a bike - I cannot do it for more than a minute unless assisted by hills or wind. Power demand is not linear with speed. It would be nice to have that power difference made up by a motor.
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I'm not sure the wheel is the best place for the battery! TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton
I don't believe 13 lbs is a ton. Not even a metric ton.
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You will after riding with it for miles. Relativity ya know.
Located in the wheel (Score:5, Interesting)
First, don't think of the copenhagen wheel as an electric bike. Think of it as a wheel - that can be used to retrofit nearly any compatible bike. It's wireless capabilities means that you don't even need a controller on the bike wired to it.
As for the weight, it's at least around the axle, not the rim, so that reduces the effects. One can certainly argue about the max speed, but keep in mind that the non-linear power increases would also rapidly increase the cost and weight of the batteries and motor.
Re:rotating mass (Score:5, Interesting)
"I'd rather have a hub motor but have a small battery pack affixed elsewhere, maybe in a bottle cage, where it doesn't have to rotate."
It's not as big a penalty as you think. The weight is nearer the center of the wheel. This design has real packaging advantages over what you describe. It's also not new.
"20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who isn't elderly."
20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who is elderly.
Electric assist isn't needed for fit riders and bumping the speed to 25 MPH wouldn't make it better for its purpose. Bike commuters are not well served by devices designed to increase their riding speeds, they are well served by devices that expand the range for which cycling is practical. When commuting the goal isn't to ride as fast as you can, it is to arrive safely while interacting appropriately with traffic and hopefully not flat constantly while doing so.
I am also 52 years old and I have no problem sustaining 20 MPH in the flats. On my 9 mile one way commute, it is simply not possible for me to complete the ride in less than 30 minutes without a big tailwind. I do not need electric assist at my distances but others might. I could consider longer distances with assist, though, and my average speeds would improve even with the 20 MPH limitation. I have no desire to ride at high speeds on the shoulders with cars coming at me oblivious to my existence. I am forced to take emergency measures once every couple hundred miles typically. Safety is a far bigger issue than top speed.
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20 MPH can be sustained by a fit rider who is elderly. This is delusional, over the 70,000+ miles I've ridden, both for commuting and recreation I never seen an old guy that wasn't obviously super into cycling moving that fast. I've been only able to do it for a few summers in my life. Sustaining 20mph (~30min), alone, on a non super bike is elite cycling. It requires 250-300W and that's with with an aggressive posture. It is in the range of power expenditure for normal (non stage competition) tour de f
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The bike remains locked up down in the shed to a ground anchor, not dripping all over the floor up in my third floor flat which by the way only has stairs, no lift...
Also means I can take the battery inside to recharge when at work.
electric assist means I can do my 7 mile commute without getting sweaty... takes the hills out and kills the headwinds... no lycra... ordinary street clothes and shoes
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TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton,
Did you work on the Mars Climate Orbiter?
and it's rotating mass.
Barely. The wheel only rotates twice a second, and they are keeping the weight close to the hub. The rotational energy will be small, and recovered by regenerative braking or coasting anyway. It really does not matter.
Unsprung mass is not much of an issue on a road bike either. Total mass is what counts, and this wheel _will_ make the bike more difficult to carry, e.g up stairs.
Also the topping out at 20 MPH is a little low.
Really? That is faster than the average speed of cars in major cities. (Or minor cities a
rotating mass (Score:1)
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TFA says the wheel weighs 13 lbs, which is a ton,
wrong. I hope this is a massive typo, considering that my car weights just over 1 ton.
*sigh* I guess figurative speech is going the way of the dodo...
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In many jurisdictions it is ILLEGAL for a power-assisted bicycles to exceed 30km/h. If something goes faster and is power-assisted, it is no longer considered a bicycle (or power assisted bicycle), but a motorcycle (or scooter or whatever), and different laws and licensing requirements govern said vehicle.
Exactly. In the United States, the speed limit is 20mph. What you buy is often capable of more than that as a top speed (to deal with steep hills,etc) but the speed is artificially limited
There is also different sub-categories which can vary considerably depending on state
e.g.
"Electric-assist" bicycle (where the user still needs to pedal to some extent keep accelerating)
"Motorized bicycle" where it can be self-propelled (controlled by throttle) after a the user used the pedals from a stop
"Motor-Driven cycle
The Real Problem (Score:5, Interesting)
here in Boston, where I live
Narrow twisty roads, and when the snowbank gets high, narrower roads
non highway routes are often circuitous
Dark at 5PM much of the year (and add in the snowy, narrow twisty roads...)
Potholes
Did I mention potholes ?
Rain snow sleet
weather down to teens to single digits many days of the year
lack of decent bike racks (some day, some smart person will write a n y times op ed about how bad bike racks are)
no showers, or cruddy showers
not so good when you have to go pick up your kid at school, or dance recital, or...
maybe inside Cambridge or Boston itself, a bike might work
For much of MA, no so good
the problem is NOT that we need easier to use bikes
the problem is that we have a car suburban orientation; change tax laws and zoning so people are packed into citys, and bikes will take care of themselves
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here in Boston, where I live
Good thing these can be used outside of Boston, eh? How do you like DEM apples?
The Real Problem (Score:1)
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So you're saying that because you are unhappy with where and how you live and because you want to ride or not ride bicycles, the entire country should be stuffed into dirty, crowded cities? I don't think so. Not only is that an idiotic and selfish demand, any politician who tried would be kicked out of office instantly.
People like cars and suburbia. Get us
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This is changing. It is inevitable that suburbia as you know it will die. I hope you get used to this idea before it affects you. Maybe you'll join the club and have all these things, as I do, at lower cost, higher quality of life, and with less negative impact, without the unsustainable highly subsidized mess of suburbia.
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I've lived in cities for many years, both in Europe and in the US. They serve different purposes and different populations. Cities are great for singles looking for sex and entertainment, and that's why they have grown. Cities are also highly subsidized, have numerous quality of life problems, and are pretty inefficient. Believe me: neither suburbs nor cities are going away.
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Oh, this is interesting. What "modern infrastructure" do you think I'm missing?
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Civil services cost money. Maintenance costs money. 40 - 70% of municipal budgets and hence municipal fees and taxes depend strongly on population density (think water, sewer, roads). This is compounded often by terrible city planning choices, which occur more frequently in the suburbs due to less expertise and oversight. It is also compounded by harebrained state and federal assistance to shiny public works projects that muni budge
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Right here:
So, which "modern infrastructure" do you think I'm missing?
Nice theory, but that's not budget reality. City budgets overwhelmingly go for debt service, pensions, schools, police, and welfare.
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higher quality of life??? in the city???
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the problem is that we have a car suburban orientation; change tax laws and zoning so people are packed into citys
actually this is pretty much right on...give or take
i live in Portland and I consider myself an expert on this kind of stuff b/c of my background (which is not important)...anyhow, you said it pretty well there
tax/zoning isn't a magic bullet, but with good traffic planning, there's no reason to have a huge clusterfsk in your city
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I bike commuted for many years in Boston, 6-10 miles each way depending on the job and where I was living. It is hardly the cycling hell-on-Earth the poster depicts. In my experience it's practical to bike commute 75% of the time, 95% if you have showers at work. You just need the right clothing, equipment and attitude.
The electric wheel might help some commuter choose routes that would otherwise be impractical, but it's not not going revolutionize bike commuting because it's not essential. What is esse
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did you ever hear the phrase, YMMV ?
like, maybe not everyone is as dedicate or strong as you ?
To assert that narrow, twisty, snow covered roads, at night, are not a problem is just mind boggling; you must be a conservative republican who believes in the gold standard, and doesn't know that the individual mandate was a heritage foundation idea
Or... I could just be a person who actually tried it and found out it wasn't such a big deal. I'm not saying everyone has to do it. I'm saying don't be dissuaded by the naysayers who've never tried it.
bikes can't handle the truth (Score:1, Interesting)
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"bike lanes or other gov-assisted options spend $/time on the 1% who bike."
Are car lanes a "government assisted option" for driving?
Spending money on "the 1% who bike" provides benefits for all of society. You might want to think about someone other than yourself.
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Bicycle lanes/paths are cheap, and probably about 10-20% of the population bike pretty regularly. For kids and teenagers, it's one of the primary modes of transportation.
Given that government has a monopoly on local transportation, it is reasonable to demand that government cater to common needs like bicycling.
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A small trailer will take your dog or a young kid. would be interesting to try that in combination with an electric-assist bike. So yes it solves the dog.
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Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo (Score:4, Interesting)
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Or maybe you'll get an arbitrary speed limit imposed on all bicycles, with or without a motor of any kind.
Re:Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo (Score:4, Informative)
What "sneak"?
Electric drive systems are usually rated by power (in Watts). The motor is usually 90% efficient.
Common power limits in various jurisdictions are 250W, 500W and 1000W.
For your reference, 500W is around 1/2 horsepower (0.68). That is enough to propel a rider at 20mph. However, getting to that speed costs power.
Yes, most ebikes are made in China. At the end of 2013, an estimated 181 million ebikes were on in use in China, with sales of 37 million units.
This Copenhagen Wheel? Will be a small blip in the market.
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But laws regulate the maximum wattage of electric motors for bicycles and their maximum speeds.
In many places you can ride a bicycle legally on a sidewalk. You don't want power-assisted bikes going 30 MPH on sidewalks mixed with pedestrians and you don't want people "sneaking around the laws" in order to enable this.
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Re: Could be good if just for legal mumbo jumbo (Score:1)
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Yeah, it's a lot simpler how those laws are dealt with in New York (and New Jersey for that matter); they're just flat-out ignored. There's a ton of electric-assist food delivery bikes in NYC, all illegal.
Article comments (Score:2)
I am not sure who in their sane mind, writes such a poorly paced 2 page article.
I am sure its up to journalistic standards, but please, learn how to cut it down. Its far too long for something thats essentially "This is a thing, this is the company, and this is how it works, and this was my experience with this thing". Especially when you forget to talk about the third and fourth point.
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*nods... "I took the bike for a ride at the Cambridge office and offer this review."
That's factually untrue. This is nothing more than a promo, there is one line that it took longer for a ten minute trip (but not how much longer) or why.
Where's the review? Where's the experience? Comparisons? Where's anything that gives any idea of what it's like other than how much it weighs? (Simply declaring it'll feel different because they are tweaking it doesn't count.)
Were this "review" on Amazon I'd answer, "n
Doesn't solve the problem (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with bikes is weather.
We are getting into (the northern hemisphere) winter. Snow and ice on the roads make cycling too dangerous, and then theres the wind chill...
Re:Doesn't solve the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Ice is handled by studded tires
Darkness is handled by lights
If you can dress up to do any outdoors activity in winter you can also dress to ride a bike.
Really, weather is not a problem.
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Being someone who rides a motorcycle, weather has a very large part of how stress free a ride might be. Bicycle? same thing; as the temperature hits 45 degrees or so - you just get cold. That's it.
I won't ride my motorcycle in very cold wintry weather, and even with the right gear - something is going to get cold, in addition to other drivers not expecting to see a motorcycle / bicycle on the road.
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Minnesotan here. Lowest temp so far I've faced on my morning commute is 26F. I still haven't broken out the heavy winter gear.
A lot of it is how you dress. A wicking underlayer, an insulating middle layer, and a wind-blocking outer layer goes pretty far.
Unlike a motorcycle, a bicyclist has two advantages -
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I don't mind the cold on my bike, but I don't like lots of rain as my road bike doesn't brake well in the wet and I have to go a lot slower which takes the fun out of it. Snow is good fun with the right set of tyres, but we don't get a lot of snow here in England.
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Exactly. There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes.
Former Minnesotan here. Anyone who says the above has never left the comfort MN.
Down here in the south, we have this scourge called "frozen mix". Nothing makes you colder than having 32 degree water/sleet/ice pouring down on your head. The only clothing that can protect you against this plague is a climate-controlled building.
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However, with the right clothing, people have survived all kinds of strange conditions (even underwater), so I reckon you just haven't found the right clothing for your frozen mix. (A full scuba drysuit is almost like a climate-controlled building, so you might be right about that).
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Rain IMO is a much more uncomfortable bike-riding environment than snow or ice.
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Ice is handled by studded tires
Darkness is handled by lights
If you can dress up to do any outdoors activity in winter you can also dress to ride a bike.
Really, weather is not a problem.
Really, that is wishful thinking. If you wear glasses, they always fog up. Face protection is paramount, leaving you looking like a serial killer. Massive gloves are required, since they are the most exposed. Then there's fumbling with the bike lock and key while wearing massive gloves, trying to fit your helmet over your hat, baggy snow pants caught in the gears, decreased visibility when in snow, ... They are all small things, but weather certainly IS a problem.
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Because only the US has winter.
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Technology has marched on. Right now, you can buy an off-the-shelf bike with 4" or 5" tires that will run at 8 PSI. Studded versions are available.
Trust me, traction ain't the problem.
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Have you ever tried to ride with a good set of studded bicycle tires? Spinning or breaking traction really is no problem as they grip every bit as good as a studded car tire (Directly related to tire pressure), but are subject to much less sideways loading due to significantly less speed and mass.
Regarding lights, you obviously need to get a light to see by, not just a marker. Such lights are readily available and not at all a speciality item any more. (more often the problem lies in the opposite end: That
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Even in Russia, all you need is to change the type of tires to use a bike on the winter.
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"We are getting into (the northern hemisphere) winter. "
So is the rest of the northern hemisphere. How is it that anywhere else people can still cope?
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Speaking as one who used to get around town on a bike during Montana winters, with no special equipment (just the winter outdoor gear I'd wear anyway) -- nonsense. Tho you do quickly learn to never, ever use the front brake on ice.
What about thieves? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been there and indeed you do see bikes everywhere. I did not see a single electric bike though. When I asked around, I've heard that bikes get stolen all the time so it is not worth putting too much money into them.
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I've been there [...]
You mean you're the one who stole my bike!? You bastard! :^D
I've heard that bikes get stolen all the time so it is not worth putting too much money into them.
This sort of depends. I've yet to have a bike stolen, but I tend to ride to places where I know my bike will be safe. If I'm going somewhere where I don't know that my bike will be safe (like to the local mall), I'll ride my cheap bike.
The nice thing about something like this is that since it's pretty much self-contained, you can take it with you. So I could attach this $800 wheel to my $150 Huffy and ride 30 miles or so. When I get to my dest
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You take the wheel with you. It is designed to be carried with you.
Been done before (Score:1)
This looks very similar to the bionx system that has excited for several years, except it's using your smartphone instead of a dedicated display unit
http://ridebionx.com/products/... [ridebionx.com]
There is a number of smaller companies out there as well making similar conversion kits (or even pre-built systems).
Been done before (Score:2)
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There's mocking because you can get a superior ebikes kit for less money that won't be full of proprietary components. That's not to say they won't make money, but there are better options out there
So what's so special? (Score:2)
My several year old e-bike has a hub motor. It's on the front wheel rather than the rear (because that makes the mechanicals simpler), but this is all off-the-shelf stuff nowadays.