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Bicycle Bottle System Condenses Humidity From Air Into Drinkable Water 167

Posted by samzenpus from the water-water-everywhere dept.
Diggester writes The weight of water limits how much can be brought on a long bike ride. There isn't always an option to stop and fill up from a clean stream or drinking fountain, but water could be obtained from a different source: the air. Austrian industrial design student Kristof Retezár has created Fontus: a prototype of a water bottle system that condenses humid air into clean, drinkable water. His design made him a finalist for the 2014 James Dyson Award.
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Bicycle Bottle System Condenses Humidity From Air Into Drinkable Water More

Bicycle Bottle System Condenses Humidity From Air Into Drinkable Water

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  • Hmmm ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:58PM (#48419729) Homepage

    So, a small wind turbine (or taking turns on a bike), and any hot humid area where clean drinking water can be scarce is a good fit for this.

    I can see this applying to FAR more than cycling.

    Interesting.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yes, of all the possible places this could be used it seems bizarre he decided to focus on the cyclist market.

      • Re:Hmmm ... (Score:5, Funny)

        by ikedasquid ( 1177957 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:20PM (#48419967)
        The vendor and support market could be huge too. Think of all the protocol droids that will need to be manufactured just to speak their binary language!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        He focused on the cycling market because it's just a dehumidifier, which means it is just a cut down heat moving machine (air conditioner). You can buy those for your home for pretty cheap already.

        The interesting thing here is that it's done with Peltiers, which while an obvious advance in technology, isn't one (peltiers for dehumidifying) anyone has found a use for yet, AFAIK, since it is not as efficient as using your standard air conditioner setup.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I'm a cyclist. So I can safely say, that serious cyclist spending $5k+ on a bike are doing so for weight. Those are the same people who spend $100 for a carbon bottle cage that weighs only a few grams less than a $5 plastic or metal cage. They will most likely never purchase something like this for any serious use. Those that do, are those who have more money than sense, and buy expensive bikes so they can ride down the trail at 5mph on their expensive bikes in their expensive clothing blocking the path

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by hawguy ( 1600213 )

            I'm a cyclist. So I can safely say, that serious cyclist spending $5k+ on a bike are doing so for weight. Those are the same people who spend $100 for a carbon bottle cage that weighs only a few grams less than a $5 plastic or metal cage.

            I'm a cyclist too, so I can safely say, that most cyclists spending $5K on a bike are doing so for appearance only, because if they lost just a few pounds of the extra weight they are carrying, it would save more money than the upgrade from a $2500 to a $5000 bike. I had a 250 lb friend who actually drilled out various components on his bike to save a few grams of weight. It wasn't until he snapped off his drilled out chainring that he realized that maybe the manufacturer already cut out as much weight as

            • Re:Hmmm ... (Score:5, Informative)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @05:49PM (#48421343)

              Yeah well I'm a 400km a week cyclist and I do Ironman. A 5K bike is NOT just about weight. Aero, stiffness, handling, quality of carbon, ride..... they all factor in and THAT means time savings or watt savings.

              Anyone that thinks 5K for a bike is just about weight is a cafe racer. Yeah sure, maybe a 2K sportive is about 10 minutes slower than a S-Works Tarmac over 90 kms but that is huge difference when your ass is on the saddle. The sportive is also wasting watts on frame twist, the S-Works puts every scrap to the wheel. Or how about alloy verses carbon aero wheels? I dont wear 45mm carbon wheels for weight, it's all about aero gains. Or how about a set of 3T aeromax handlebars? Dont have those for weight, those save 20watts at my typical speed. Oh and they remove road hum too.

              And the real reason why I ride expensive bikes? After 200 kms I'm feeling okay enough to turn around and do it again. Cheaper bikes leave you a rattled sore mess.

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

                That used to be the case long long ago.

                Nowadays an average bike with amortized seat and front fork will ensure that even a fairly cheap frame and wheels won't tax you with vibration. The only problem is that you'll have to use about 5% more energy on the same route because portion of your spent energy will go into depressing the shock absorbers in the front fork.

                Now if you cycle at fairly extreme speeds where air drag becomes a serious issue, I can see going for a more expensive model, but in reality, all o

            • I ride about five to six hours a week, and there are the occasional 3-4 hour rides where I would drain my bidon and wouldn't mind having it filled for me without having to stop. Not saying I would buy this in its current form, but it wouldn't be much extra power to have an induction generator or something attached to the wheel for the novelty of it. I had some rides while training for the Ironman where this would have been welcome.

              I think I'll post this to slowtwitch.com and get their opinions.

              Plus, you do

          • I'm a cyclist. So I can safely say, that serious cyclist spending $5k+ on a bike are doing so for weight. Those are the same people who spend $100 for a carbon bottle cage that weighs only a few grams less than a $5 plastic or metal cage.

            Rubber bands are even lighter.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        It's because for most places you can make a more efficient, cheaper and more easily scalable version with a bucket, some plastic and a rock. The only drawback is that it's harder to mount on a bike.

      • It's a good place to start and build revenue.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        going for the cyclist market isn't bizarre at all if you know that the dehumidifier water makers already have been in car size form for years(as seen on pimp my ride many, many years ago).

        if he had just made a box to sit in the yard, then nothing new there. but put the box in a drinking bottle and boom new invention(nevermind if you need to be next to a waterfall for it to make enough for you to drink).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cdrudge ( 68377 )

      I can see this applying to FAR more than cycling.

      You could use it to dehumidify an entire house! I mean, in summer when you have hot, muggy air something like this, obviously on a bigger scale, could do wonders to remove the moisture plus even maybe a bit of heat in the air making it much more comfortable in a space.

      • Re:Hmmm ... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by i kan reed ( 749298 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:22PM (#48419991) Homepage Journal

        Point of fact: it's just an air conditioner. The only difference is that it uses mechanical power instead of electrical to run its heat pump.

        • Actually, if I read the article correctly it's a peltier cooler that runs off of solar panels. The fact that its on a bike is just his version of a solution looking for a problem in a market with disposable income.

          • And a peltier cooler is lower-efficiency than a normal heat pump, and they don't last forever either. Still, it's hard to get an A/C unit into a bike bottle.

          • The fact it is on a bike makes the air move into it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dasunt ( 249686 )

            Agreed. I'm a cyclist, both short and long distance.

            I've never had a problem with getting water. A cyclist can easily travel 10 miles an hour, even fully loaded. Its easy enough to refill every few hours. Even if I was in the boondocks, I could carry a water filter and fill up from streams.

            I suppose there are places without sources of water for tens of miles, but it's a very rare corner case.

      • Uh, please tell me that was sarcasm.

    • Arid areas aren't usually high-humidity.

    • "According to a description of the product on the award site, solar panels generate the electricity needed to cool the upper chamber of the device, while the bottom heats up. As the bike moves forward, air is pulled in, and then slowed and cooled as it moves through that upper chamber."

      • Even easier ... attach this and a solar panel to a weather vane, so it's always pointed into the wind.

        Put it somewhere which has both humidity and wind, but not necessarily clean drinking water.

        The differences between a bike-mounted application and a stationary one aren't insurmountable engineering. Just reusing existing stuff. In a lot of places, solar power and prevailing winds will go a long way.

        What awesome thing have you designed which could make the world a better place? What's that? Nothing?

        • What awesome thing have you designed which could make the world a better place? What's that? Nothing?

          Actually I have invented things more useful than this 8th grade science experiment. But go ahead and assume whatever you want about me, as you did with this article.

    • Re:Hmmm ... (Score:5, Funny)

      by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:17PM (#48419941) Homepage

      LOL, to heck with the drinking water ... of far more importance to Slashdotters is this article which shows up on the side of that page ...

      The Automatic Sperm Sample Extractor [thescienceworld.com].

      This piece of technology comes with a massage pipe that the user can adjust to suit his height. Upon setting the desired amplitude, frequency and temperature on the machine, the user is good to go. A small display on the top is featured for those who like some 'visual' assistance.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Thank you so much for that pearl. You made my day.

        Still laughing at the picture of that thing sitting in the hallway. I can already imagine some random guy humping it while normal hospital life goes by and no one batting an eye because it's all perfectly normal.

      • Considering their "one child" policy, why would a Chinese hospital invent this?

    • Re:Hmmm ... (Score:5, Informative)

      by neonKow ( 1239288 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:43PM (#48420233) Journal

      The article gives a rate of 1 drop per minute when it "starts to work". This means a standard 1/2 liter bottle would take over 2.5 hours to fill in 68 degree weather at 50% humidity, which doesn't seem that practical.

      In idea conditions, it still take an hour to fill that bottle. 0.5 L is not a lot in 100% humidity, and whatever hot temperature the maker considers ideal.

    • So, a small wind turbine (or taking turns on a bike), and any hot humid area where clean drinking water can be scarce is a good fit for this.

      A few years back, a long and brutal heat wave driving both temperature and humidity close to the century mark lead to the closing of our local recreational and commuter bike paths after the collapse of cyclists who would have been considered young, fit, and adequately prepared.

  • The Numbers Lie (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    You cannot produce a maximum of 500ml/hour and 1 drop/minute. 1 drop per minute is approximately 3.9ml/hour. This sounds like a more realistic figure than 500ml.

    • Even at a drop per second it seems optimistic to expect 500mL an hour. I think a drop is less than 0.14mL.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by janek78 ( 861508 )

        One drop is about 0.05 ml, i.e. 20 drops per mililitre. (When talking about water.)

        • Yeah. The AC had it as .001mL per drop, which is very low. 0.05 mL per second gives you 180 mL an hour, which is pretty much useless to a person riding a bicycle.

    • The numbers vary (Score:4, Informative)

      by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:23PM (#48420009) Journal

      1 drop per minute is at 20C and 50% RH = 3ml/hr (0.05ml/drop). At that temp/RH, there is 0.01 kg moisture per kg of air. But in hot, humid weather (say 35C and 90% RH), there is 4x as much moisture in the air. More importantly, at 20/50% the dew point is 9C, or a delta T of 11C that the (horribly inefficient) peltier cooler must keep just to condense moisture. At 35C, and 90% RH, the dew point is 33C, requiring only a 2C delta T across the cooler, allowing more of the power to be used for the latent heat of condensation.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by itzly ( 3699663 )
        Unfortunately, in hot humid air, the loss of sweat goes up dramatically, requiring more water. I think I'll just take an empty 2L bottle, filled with water on my bike rides in hot and humid air. Much cheaper and simpler.

        • Yeah, exactly. I suspect you'll never match human losses without a much larger energy source for the condenser.

          This is a much better product for areas with poor drinking water quality, but those people don't have a spare $200 for a new bicycle gadget. This was custom made for the Sharper Image / Hammacher Schlemmer catalog, not some third world peace corp work.

  • Doesn't distilled water taste horrible though? (Score:3)

    by Justpin ( 2974855 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:13PM (#48419887)
    I remember 2 decades ago in high school they had distilled water squirty bottles to use in experiments. If you got it in your mouth it tasted rather bad. Since this is a kind of distillation shouldn't the water taste foul?

    • Re:Doesn't distilled water taste horrible though? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by 31415926535897 ( 702314 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:21PM (#48419987) Journal

      Pure water does taste a little off, which is why bottled water companies add minerals to their product.

      If this is a big concern for athletes or anyone else using this system, they could easily transport a very small amount of mineral mix to dissolve in the water to fix the problem.

      Personally, I'd be shocked if this was the biggest problem. Athletes require far more fluids than this will be able to provide. I don't see this being practical.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Your body needs the salts and minerals so it tastes "off" in order to discourage you from drinking only water that is too pure. It's similar to how you start to crave salty foods if your sodium levels get too low.

      • We use thinks like NUUN, Gatorade powder (this stuff sucks and makes you more thirsty, but is not the same as what comes in Gatorade you buy at the 7 11), and dozens of other brands. basically fancy salt tabs with some additional stuff. Some of them are tasty.. some not so much.

      • Most cyclists already do this. There are tablets you drop into your water bottle to up the mineral and salts versus even tap water. Adding them to this bottle is a trivial problem.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by u38cg ( 607297 )
      Yes, but also rather more worryingly there is the minor issue that after using it for a few weeks it will become contaminated with Legionnaire's.
  • So, a mini-windtrap [wikia.com]? Kinda cool.
  • A long time since I took the survival course, but when considering being downed at sea I seem to recall taking the salt water, forming a pool of it the raft, and allowing it to condense on a slanted surface above it and drip potable water into a container. This device might work well in a warm, sunny, floating on the ocean environment where humidity and energy from the sun are plentiful.
    • IIRC, The Professor built one of these out of bamboo, and then made Gilligan pedal the bicycle.

      • IIRC, The Professor built one of these out of bamboo, and then made Gilligan pedal the bicycle.

        I thought they just drank the water out of the coconuts broken open on the Skipper's head, which seems to happen every time he stands under a coconut tree.

  • "Industrial design student" (Score:5, Informative)

    by caffeinated_bunsen ( 179721 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:17PM (#48419931)
    Apparently the industrial design curriculum doesn't cover thermodynamics. Condensing water at room temperature requires shedding about 680 watt-hours of energy per liter, and thermoelectric coolers tend to burn off more than twice the energy they pump (depends on a few variables, but practical devices in practical situations usually fall in that ballpark). You'd need somewhere near a constant half-kilowatt to provide for one person's normal water consumption. Much more if they're exercising or in a hot environment.

    • Then, I see one of two possibilities ...

      1) The people in charge of giving out an engineering design award are morons who also don't know thermodynamics.

      2) You're not as right as you think you are.

      So, unless the people who have looked at this and made him a finalist have all been hoodwinked ... I'm afraid 2) is the simpler explanation for me.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wren337 ( 182018 )
        I've got a dehumidifier in my damp basement that draws an insane amount of power to run, and takes all night to make 1/2 gallon. This smells like BS.
      • Option 1 would be consistent with much of my previous experience, if you change out "morons who also don't know" for "enthusiastically naive people who don't pause to consider." "Design" projects emphasize concepts and pretty pictures over execution, cost effectiveness, and practicality, and many of the most severely hyped ideas from that community run the gamut of unworkability from "merely completely impractical" to "would need to reverse basic physics."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Note that it's an award for industrial design, which is an arts (not engineering) program. The inventor is a student at an applied arts school.

        Does that change your assessment?

  • How much does the device weigh? A camelback with 1 liter is about 4 pounds / 1.8 kilos?

    Plus the camelback is multipurpose and can carry snacks, tools, etc.

    • Re:How much does the device weigh? (Score:4, Funny)

      by geantvert ( 996616 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:38PM (#48420181)

      Normal water is too heavy when travelling by bike so I always bring dehydrated water instead.

    • How much of the camel does that thing have attached to it? A liter of water is one kilogram, 2.2 pounds.

      • Just in case you're not up on this, I believe he's talking about a Camelbak [camelbak.com]. It's basically a backpack with a bladder for holding water and a hose that you can drink from. They're handy for bicyclists and runners who want to keep moving and not fiddle with bottles.

        • I'm perfectly aware of that, but if a camelback weighs 4 pounds with a liter of water in it, it's made of 1.8 pounds of nylon.

          • I'm perfectly aware of that, but if a camelback weighs 4 pounds with a liter of water in it, it's made of 1.8 pounds of nylon.

            That's about the empty weight of many models. I'm referring to the complete unit, pack with bladder.

    • A water bottle which can hold .75 litres probably weights at maximum 100 grams, so just using a regular water bottle on your bike, which it usually has room for anyway. Most bikes have room for 2, so you can carry 1.5 litres of water with 1.7 KG of bottles. If you're looking for lightweight ways of carrying water, a water bottle is probably close to optimal.
      • The camelback is 0.8L itself but as I pointed out it can carry everything, snacks, tools, spares, rain jacket, etc. The model I'm referring to is a 24L backpack with a 3L bladder. No need for any other bag or attachment devices on the bike.

  • You can also stop and get more water. I know I know.... Crazy talk.

    • If this bicycle goes slower than 55 Miles Per Hour, it will explode!

    • Not everywhere. Which is kind of the point.

      And there are places in the world which have high humidity but not ready access to clean drinking water. Pretty much any coastline along an ocean, for example.

      Anything which does small scale extraction like this is pretty cool, which is precisely why he's now a finalist for the Dyson Award.

      • If in an undeveloped area the coastline may have anything from small streams to rivers emptying into the ocean (well small steams generally disappear at the sand, or a little earlier, and go subterranean but are often visible from the coastal trail/road). Backpacking water filters (mine is roughly 1 pound / 0.5 kilo) work quite well under these circumstances to make the water potable.

    • I bet you even want to make water available at no charge. You probably think it should just gush freely at the push of a button for anybody. You probably think government funded agencies should install such devices at locations where people are likely to be thirsty. Communist. /sarc.

  • Where the guy was told the water bottle would gather water from the air, so he shouldn't even bother to fill it up?
  • Totally practical along the foggy coastlines. There are moisture retention fabrics that are then used for drip systems to water plants in drought regions. This invention seems like another advancement in that line of tech. Very practical for an outdoor rabbit hut.

  • One way or another, this will be vapourware.....

    a) It is "a gadget created by Kristof Retezár, an industrial design student at the University of Applied Arts in Vienna."
    b) It takes water vapour, or humidity out of the air.

  • I've trained for (and completed) a marathon and done some long-ish bike rides (several hours), not to mention taken long hikes and hours of physical labor / yard work in both the burning heat and freezing cold. The water provided by a Camelbak or a couple bottles was enough to keep things together, and the extra weight wasn't exactly killing me or making the activity impossible. If you are decently hydrated to start with, doing an hour of reasonably difficult exercise is perfectly doable with no water at al

  • Instant Stuff (Score:3)

    by pipingguy ( 566974 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @04:05PM (#48420469)
    Just invent powdered water, that way...oh, wait.
  • ... is that they'd better have those units in the south range repaired by midday or there'll be hell to pay.
  • I'm currently cycle touring in central Africa and while this sounds like a potentially useful addition to my water supply solution (Katadyn water filter), it would not be a replacement for it. The main reason is that at 0.5 litres an hour (max capacity) it just wouldn't produce enough water for me. Currently, in ~30C temperatures with 80%+ humidity, riding 80km+ a day, I'm getting though upwards of 6 litres each day. It's thirsty work!

  • Clever but as they've just shown the entire world how to make it we'll have to see who actually brings it to market first.

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