Tesla To Produce 'a Few Million' Electric Cars a Year By 2025 181
HughPickens.com writes: Reuters reports that Elon Musk, speaking at an industry conference in Detroit, said Tesla may not be profitable until 2020 but that Tesla plans to boost production of electric cars to "at least a few million a year" by 2025. Musk told attendees at the Automotive News World Congress that "we could make money now if we weren't investing" in new technology and vehicles such as the Model 3 and expanded retail networks.
Musk does not see the Chevrolet Bolt as a potential competitor to the Model 3. "It's not going to affect us if someone builds a few hundred thousand vehicles," said Musk. "I'd be pleased to see other manufacturers make electric cars." On another topic, Musk said he was open to partnerships with retailers to sell Tesla vehicles, but not until after the company no longer has production bottlenecks. "Before considering taking on franchised dealers, we also have to establish (more of) our own stores," said Musk adding that "we will consider" franchising "if we find the right partner." Musk did not elaborate, but said Tesla "is not actively seeking any partnerships" with other manufacturers "because our focus is so heavily on improving our production" in Fremont. Last year, Tesla delivered about 33,000 Model S sedans and said the current wait for delivery is one to four months. Tesla has already presold every Model S that it plans to build in 2015. "If you ordered a car today, you wouldn't get it until 2016."
Musk does not see the Chevrolet Bolt as a potential competitor to the Model 3. "It's not going to affect us if someone builds a few hundred thousand vehicles," said Musk. "I'd be pleased to see other manufacturers make electric cars." On another topic, Musk said he was open to partnerships with retailers to sell Tesla vehicles, but not until after the company no longer has production bottlenecks. "Before considering taking on franchised dealers, we also have to establish (more of) our own stores," said Musk adding that "we will consider" franchising "if we find the right partner." Musk did not elaborate, but said Tesla "is not actively seeking any partnerships" with other manufacturers "because our focus is so heavily on improving our production" in Fremont. Last year, Tesla delivered about 33,000 Model S sedans and said the current wait for delivery is one to four months. Tesla has already presold every Model S that it plans to build in 2015. "If you ordered a car today, you wouldn't get it until 2016."
math (Score:2)
If the current wait is one to four months... considering it's January 2015 right now... and if I ordered one now I wouldn't get it until 2016...
Time travel?
Re:math (Score:4, Informative)
It's a typo. The wait for a model S is 1-4 months. The model X is sold out for 2015.
Re:math (Score:4, Informative)
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In other words you bought a car that no one has review and is not even shipping yet.
Re:typing (Score:2)
Typo... the link says it's the Model X SUV that's presold-out for 2015. So you only have to wait months for an S Sedan.
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If these cars are so wildly popular that they're selling out and there is a long waiting list, perhaps we should end the $10,000 subsidy which was intended to encourage purchase of these vehicles.
Seems they would sell fine without the subsidy.
Re:math (Score:4, Informative)
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It's very likely that the people with money to buy a Tesla make too much to qualify for the tax credit.
Everyone qualifies for the BEV tax credit. There is no income qualification other than that you've had to pay enough tax to be able to use the tax credit. So it's possible that you make too *little* to use the tax credit; not too much. I actually had to manufacture tax spend to make sure that I could use it. I paid my property taxes earlier than I would have so that it would be in the right tax year.
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There's no contradiction at all... last year, they said that the wait was one to four months. At the time that they said this, that is actually what it was at the time, hence their use of the word "currently". Now the waitlist is more like a year.
Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:5, Insightful)
We were hoping we found a giant killer, a veritable David against Goliath, a David on our side. Now you eh, tu! Elon? Don't. Break their back. Bring national direct auto buying directly from the manufacturer to the nation that deserves it. It is long past time, we let the free markets to be free.
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Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:4, Insightful)
Your vision may be clouded by Elon Musk's cool name and your belief that he is good, not evil. Picture Jack Welch as the head of Tesla instead. Now picture that you're considering buying a Tesla dealership. You pay your franchise fee (maybe a few million), you sign your agreement (which states that Tesla retains the rights to sell directly), you build your building, and you start selling your cars. Turns out that you are pretty good at your job, and your dealership becomes a top-selling Tesla dealership.
Jack Welch checks his monthly reports and says "hmm, look at the Anytown USA territory. Everyone down there wants one of our cars. Let's open a company storefront down there - we can sell for less than our franchise and make more money". Sorry, you're out of business, and probably bankrupt too, because you took the risk for Tesla, and they cashed in.
My father used to own a Texaco gas station. He often competed with stations that were owned by Texaco itself. There were times when those company-owned stations would sell gas for cheaper than they would sell it to him wholesale. Corporate mentality doesn't care about anything but profit.
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Corporate mentality doesn't care about anything but profit.
Nor do car dealerships or gas station owners. The only time we ordinary consumers benefit is when giants compete in a free level field. Right now it is tilted far too much towards the NADA.
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Corporate mentality doesn't care about anything but profit.
Nor do car dealerships or gas station owners. The only time we ordinary consumers benefit is when giants compete in a free level field. Right now it is tilted far too much towards the NADA.
Hopefully you don't believe this. The only time ordinary consumers benefit is when there are many small sellers, so supply and demand can actually function. When the field is dominated by a few giants, only the giants (and their shareholders) benefit. A free market depends on nobody, buyer or seller, being able to monopolize the market for their own advantage.
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It doesn't take many sellers, is the thing. 3 is often enough if they're not illegally colluding.
The main protection, though, is lack of barrier to entry. If the few big players are bad, but new players can just undercut them without being regulated out of existence by the big guys' pet senators, then that's just as good. That's the battle right now with Tesla - they're quite the disruptive new player, but they're being fought in the "you must have dealerships" regulatory war, instead of in the market.
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In such a situation, the franchise owner should've had enough foresight (especially given the vast amount of previous history) to add to the franchise agreement a non-compete clause. Free market and all.
Sometimes one side of said contract has too much power and we need the government to step in and make a law. The problem with that approach is that those laws often outlive their intent. The franchise laws to protect auto dealers were enacted in a day where the Big Three auto makers were the only business in
Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:5, Interesting)
My father used to own a Texaco gas station. He often competed with stations that were owned by Texaco itself. There were times when those company-owned stations would sell gas for cheaper than they would sell it to him wholesale. Corporate mentality doesn't care about anything but profit.
Of course through the effects of corporate self-interest, consumers got cheaper gas than they could from your father's rip-off gas station...
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That's one way to look at it - though characterizing it as "rip-off" because he wasn't charitable enough to subsidize people's gas seems a little antagonistic. Perhaps you didn't read where I wrote that Texaco charged him more for gas (i.e. the wholesale level) than it charged its retail customers. He took the risk by pioneering the market, they later came in and undercut him once it was established. That is the corporate way.
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Only until his father's gas station is out of business. Then Standard Oil
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"...Let's open a company storefront down there - we can sell for less than our franchise and make more money".
There were times when those company-owned stations would sell gas for cheaper than they would sell it to him wholesale
This is actually really good for the consumer, and thus for the economy.
Stealership conditions (Score:2)
Must sell only Tesla/EVs: Probably could. However, the dealer could also simply set up a second LLC right next door and open another. IE: Blarmy's Tesla dealership is right next to Blarmy's Honda dealership.
Retain the right to sell directly: Very unlikely - most state laws, even those that don't require an 'independent' dealer, forbid the manufacturer from directly competing with the dealerships for customers.
Standard automakers: See the state non-compete laws, laws requiring dealers(Texas), and yes,
Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:5, Interesting)
Can Tesla do something like pick a dealership and add conditions like, "must sell only tesla or only electric cars", "Tesla will retain the right to sell directly too" etc? Why are the standard auto makers not able to sell directly? Is it because A: the law stops them or B: They had signed exclusive agreements already. If Tesla starts with a clean slate, can it have dealerships and sell directly too? Or at least have some more balanced rights and decent negotiating position compared to the gas giants who are wimps against NADA.
Yes, Tesla could do all of that. Most dealers wouldn't sign such an agreement. For that matter, most dealers wouldn't want to sell an electric car.
Seriously, most existing car dealers don't know how to sell an electric car and make money at it. Since, for the most part, a Tesla requires far less maintenance than a modern internal combustion car, and since, for the most part, the biggest profit center in most car dealerships is the service center I can't see how the existing dealer networks can adapt to selling a Tesla or any other electric car.
Right now there is a dizzying patchwork of laws requiring automobiles be sold through dealers and not direct from the manufacturer. Historically, a lot of this was to protect local small businessmen (car dealers, who even today are quite well represented in local government). The other argument was that with a local dealer the purchaser of a car could also be sure his car could be serviced locally as well -- and since an electric car requires so much less service, that logic is kind of questionable.
Oh, and car dealerships (or any franchisee) can protect themselves from being undercut by the automaker by insisting on the same terms as any other dealer in their territory. There is also this thing called the Sherman Anti-Trust act that also prohibits undercutting your own dealers.
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Since, for the most part, a Tesla requires far less maintenance than a modern internal combustion car
I don't know where that meme comes from, but on my last 2 cars and my current one (all bought brand new), I've never had a repair done that was related to the engine or transmission.
All problems where electrical (radio, door locks, etc..), brakes (the parking brake was frozen in place) or suspension (links, ball joint).
So appart from the 2 or 3 times a year oil change that's so cheap they can't do more than 2 or 3$ profit on, I don't see where a Tesla could bring in less work for the dealer since it has the
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Cars have lots of electrical problems because most automakers don't know how to build good electrical machines. Look at the hardware failure rate in your tablets, phones, furnaces, air conditioners, dishwashers, light switches, TV, VCR, and the rate of electrical failures in automobiles. Auto company engineering top honchos are all mechanical engineers who suck in electrical machines.
Look
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They know the problems, and choose to not fix them because the fix is expensive.
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I've seen many cars have major powertrain failures.
And with regenerative brakes, you need to do the brakes less often.
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And I'll counter with my own anecdotal data point:
My Juke was recalled because some timing chains were failing, causing the engine to eat itself.
ICE cars need a lot of maintenance to stay roadworthy. We are simply used to it and don't think about it much.
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This makes no sense. Car dealers are no different from any other retailer. Just because they make money off of service today does not mean that is the only way to make money. They can make money:
Selling extended warranties
Selling dealer options (floor mats, etc)
Financing
Raising the markup on the product
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for the most part, the biggest profit center in most car dealerships is the service center
I thought it was the used lot. New cars make them $200 to $5000 (depending on the area and the specific car), but a used car makes $2000 to $10000. Service is ok, but they don't make a mint on it. Certainly not in the '70s and '80s (when independent repair shops were common and able to fix anything in a car). Not sure if that's turning around with in-car DRM on parts.
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Part of the problem, is the auto dealers is one of the few middle-class wage jobs out there, that people with limited education can get in and earn a good life style.
However I do not like the idea that companies are forced to have dealers. With some competition will force dealers to value add in their service not just resell cars.
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Yeah retail salespersons are kind of dinosaurs at this point. You can't technically buy a car on Amazon but you can buy a road legal (in some states) scooter there. Inertia is the only reason you can't order a new Toyota Camry or Prius on Amazon and have it shipped to your house. You can do it with used cars on Ebay at least.
I'm not sure jobs or tax revenue are a good reason to impede forward progress though.
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Maybe not but every politician represents the needs of his electorate and that electorate certainly want to keep their jobs.
I'm not saying it's a good reason but often times, technological changes can blind-side a good portion of the population and we have to consider that. Perhaps not stop progress but definitely slow down adoption to give the population time to find new jobs.
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I thought you could buy a car on Amazon, though only 3 were sold that way.
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The link to buy the car just pushed you to a dealership contact form, it was mostly an ad wrapped up and disguised as an Amazon listing.
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Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:5, Insightful)
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People haggle for home prices
Homes are unique. So are used cars. New cars aren't but your trade in vehicle is.
Once you are sure everyone pays the same price
When the products are unique that isn't reasonable.
People haggle for home prices. They love it
Most do not. But at least if they were smart they have an agent making the offer that isn't representing the seller at all, and they are probably sending the offer to the sellers agent. So the buyer and seller are pretty well insulated from each other, and ther
Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is not haggling, it is the secrecy.
Before Christmas I walked into my local Firestone franchise and wanted to get 2 new tires. They quoted me $140 a pice. When I said that I could get the same tires for $100 up the street at Costco (but I also needed a front end alignment which Costco doesn't do), suddenly their price was $100. Then the next day when I came in to get the tires changed*, the cost was actually $80 a piece. It's that sort of secret, we won't tell you the true price crap that I hate. Combined with all sorts of attempts to up-sell, and add-on services that I said 3 times already that I don't need.
* What stunned me was that I had 2 good tires and 2 bad tires. Somehow they manage to replace the good ties with the new tires and left the bad tires on the car.
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They resold the good ones of CL for $20.
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That's almost a convincing argument, but you missed something - a corporate store means a complete monopoly on the product, and the price is 100% fixed. Think: Apple.
That does not mirror a grocery store. Sure, the price of a can of beans is fixed, but only at that store. If you don't like the price for that exact can of beans, you can try several others, and often can do better.
I do get your point about the secrecy though - although for the most part, even though prices are openly posted everywhere, they ar
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That worked out so well for Saturn didn't it?
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Because we Tesla Fanboys (I certainly count myself as one) understand that there's a big difference what Tesla does and what other car dealers do.
The secrecy in the price is what aggravates most car buyers. If I knew that I paid the same price for my BMW as everyone else who bought one this year, I would happily buy another BMW (if they made a full-electric that ran for 250 miles and had similar features to a Tesla, that is).
Tesla Fanboys also realize that Tesla is using the profits from their cars to buil
Re:Tell me it ain't so, Elon! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't want to have to go to the dealership armed with "how to not get fucked by the dealer" materials and research from all over the web and my loins girded for battle.
Buying my car was a terrible experience; I walked out of two dealerships because they were such abusive assholes.
I don't want to wonder if I got a good deal. I don't want to second-guess my choice. I want to go to the Tesla store and chat with the associates who know their stuff. Get a test drive. Share the office lunch--Best sliders ever! Thanks, Kat! Configure the car how I want it, get it delivered. Perfect.
No pushing to get me to buy some random car that happens to be taking up space on the lot. No attempting to intimidate us by suggesting that my wife maybe can't do an interest calculation, then getting offended when she drops her astrophysics PhD on the table. Never again. Tesla really has to badly fuck the Model 3 up for me not to buy one.
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Bought my Tacoma new in '08, still driving it today, intend to drive it for at least another 3 years, probably longer.
When I went car shopping, the extra interest I would have paid on a newer used truck(which wouldn't have had the exact feature set I wanted, and I looked), would have ended up costing me more money. The raw price difference was only about $1k, as you mention I wouldn't have the warranty length left, wouldn't know the entire driving history of my vehicle, etc... The extra 3% because used ca
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You're being awfully dogmatic there. You say cars should last over 250K miles. This may be correct, but that's not going to be the case for all cars, and in my experience they start becoming a bit less reliable and more maintenance-prone after 80K-100K miles. Moreover, you don't know the cost of maintenance for the next 150K miles, or the lifetime of the car, although you can guess. So, you can buy new and pay more, and get the best years of the car's life and know exactly how it's maintained, or you c
New vs used (Score:2)
I agree with everything you say.
He's also making a lot of assumptions:
You are both making the mistake of trying to find the used car equivalent to the new car you bought.
Nope. My main requirement was 'Truck, capable of towing X', along with a few other requirements/desires. I looked at both new and used models, not to mention the paper for 'for sale by owner' vehicles. New happened to not only fit my desires list better, but they offered a better price as well.
A new car is just about 100% of the time a bad financial decision
Indeed, very dogmatic. Me, I broke out the spreadsheets. $10k@5% = $500/year. $10k@8% = $300 more, and my loan was for more than $10k.
Penny w
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More EVs = More Infrastructure = More Sales (Score:2)
Yeah, I can see why Musk would like to see a few more EVs out there. Heck, I can see him wanting them to use his charging technology.
More manufacturers making and selling electric cars helps justify the creation of more infrastructure, which increases the value of the cars he sells without costing Tesla money.
If the extra cars means that businesses, restaurants, and stores 'all' install a charging point, that's a good value boost.
Also, 'current wait' is 4 months, yet if you ordered one today you wouldn't g
Re:More EVs = More Infrastructure = More Sales (Score:4, Funny)
Also, 'current wait' is 4 months, yet if you ordered one today you wouldn't get it to 2016? That's a 12 month wait.
That has to do with the flux capacitors. If you order one today, they'll get around to making yours in 2016. Then they set the date back to when you ordered it and drive it 88MPH up the railroad tracks. Then it just has to wait 4 months for them to finish up the paperwork, and its yours.
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Re:More EVs = More Infrastructure = More Sales (Score:4, Insightful)
GM has a crap Volt and a concept car Bolt which wont even be selling for another two years.... GM is not a competitor to Tesla - Teslas competitors are BMW, Audi, Lexus and Tesla is destroying them
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Tesla sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 15k (probably a bit less) cars in the US in 2014. BMW sold 340k, Audi sold 180k, and Mercedes sold 360k. Tesla slightly outsold Maserati, and came in behind Jaguar.
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I think his point is that the Tesla got the highest score ever by consumer reports. They said it is the best cat they have ever driven bar none. So if you are considering a M5 or a S4 why would you by something the has a higher cost and less performance?
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GM has a crap Volt and a concept car Bolt which wont even be selling for another two years.... GM is not a competitor to Tesla - Teslas competitors are BMW, Audi, Lexus and Tesla is destroying them
While I'm not sure why GM can't sell many of their Volts I think that'll change once their newer model can seat 5 and has higher EV range and total range. It seems like Prius++ - not sure why folks aren't buying it.
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The sunk cost fallacy. So what if they spent money on it if it sucks now? You can never recover sunk costs you can only invest current capital in the best market. Move on.
Ironically GM came up with the Tesla style design after the EV1 and wanted it to have modular bodies so you could switch from coupe to van on the same frame/battery/engine platform. Unfortunately they stuck their head up their ass instead,
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Sunk cost isn't completely a fallacy. Having all that fancy production capacity means they can build gasoline engines cheaper than they otherwise could. It doesn't mean they should continue to make engines if they're not profiting on them, but it does mean that they need to make relatively less money on gasoline engines than electric.
Re:More EVs = More Infrastructure = More Sales (Score:4, Informative)
Comparing Telsa with Delorean [yahoo.com] is not valid.
The company failed because the high expectations and desires of the founder John DeLorean did not match the realities of the level of manufacturing technology and market demand of the late 70's and early 80's. The car was also an under performing over priced piece of junk. The only unique aspect of the car was the gull wing doors and stainless steel skin, everything else was a technological compromise that resulted in lack luster car.
Tesla actually makes decent vehicles.
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Yeah, I saw that when I hit refresh. When I typed this up there were no responses.
Few Million a Year is a BIG Stretch Goal (Score:5, Insightful)
I've also talked with a few industrial engineers that specialize in this type of manufacturing, and at least based on the videos released, the way his assembly lines are setup right now are not going to scale up well. For him to meet his production goals, he's going to have to completely redo the way he does fabrication and final assembly. Should also be pointed out too that the NUMMI plant they're operating out of produced at its peak 6,000 vehicles a week: a healthy number, but an order of magnitude lower than his goals. He will have to expand, probably build more factories, and that will take time. Again, these are just the issues of the factory, it doesn't even go into the other issues.
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You proceed from a false assumption.
The Tesla factory fronts the 880 Freeway in Fremont on the east side of the San Francisco Bay. Instead of building a brand-new factory, Tesla purchased the old Nummi factory that had been producing GM and Toyota vehicles since 1984 before closing in 2010. Tesla paid only $42 million for the plant, which sits on 380 acres and was originally constructed in 1962.
The Nummi factory is already big enough to build half a million vehicles a year. They've been expanding lines for
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Re:Few Million a Year is a BIG Stretch Goal (Score:5, Interesting)
The stated ambition was "about a million cars" The article is incorrect in its quote. The liveblog (and video) are much more accurate.
One thing unique about Tesla's manufacturing is that the supply chain is materials. Most everything else is produced by Tesla themselves at the Fremont factory. Many questioned why this decision was made but there are many long-term benefits. When your supply chain is all raw materials, availability becomes much more predictable and your ability to influence the supply by pumping some money into a mine is far easier than say, getting a different company to shape up and manufacture more parts.
The only part of a Tesla that isn't produced at Fremont are the batteries and that's why the Gigafactory is coming online.
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Tesla admits they're using only 20% of the former NUMMI plant space to build the Model S/X.. which is supposed to be low volume/high price flagship vehicle. They're still designing the Model 3's manufacturing method (alongside the vehicle itself)..
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Your post is suggesting that Musk may be naive enough to not anticipate all the difficult steps necessary for ramping up production, but somehow I have more faith in him as a businessman. Did you see how he handled the negotiations about the battery factory? Like a bawss.
Higher end Teslas were always meant to be a learning experience for the company. They're high-end cars, so they're made in a boutique setting like high end cars tend to be. There is a sense in starting upmarket and working your way down
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Money talks, electric car walks (Score:2, Interesting)
As to mass-producing these cars, I have doubts that infrastructure could handle mass-ad
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I love the idea of electric cars, and Tesla is on my "lottery win" shopping list. With that said, if you apply hard numbers these cars do not make any sense at the current gas prices.
The truth is that none of the cars in the luxury category make any economic sense -- why spend $60,000+ on a luxury car when a $12,000 Honda Fit would get you to your destinations just as effectively?
So why do expensive cars sell? Because they're cool. And cool is something that Tesla's cars have, in spades.
Imagine what will happen to electricity costs during peak usage when everyone runs AC AND charges electric cars at the same time!
Okay, I'm imagining a lot of people switching to charging their cars at night, and running the AC during the day.
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a) No argument here. Gigafactory should help
b) Cost of expanding charging station network - They're doing it now. Heck, every time somebody buys an EV they typically increase the network size by the charging station in their garage.
c) Built into the cost of building the charging stations
d) increased load during peak times - It's more likely to increase baseload, actually. They're highly computerized big drawers. It's relative child's play to mess with the charging timing and draw to ensure that you're
Re:Money talks, electric car walks (Score:5, Interesting)
With an electric car with a 200 mile range, I would still drive my car 60 miles a day, but I would no longer be stopping at a gas station every eight days. I would be plugging in every night. The only time I would ever need a charging station is when I need to drive more than 100 miles away from my house. I do this MAYBE once a month. So, already my demand at a 'fueling' station is 1/4 of what it was.
Add to this the difference in costs build a fueling station. A public level 2 charging station can be installed for as little as $5000. Level 3 would currently cost about $50,000. A charging station can be anywhere, and can be built in days. Charging station supply will be able to increase very easily as demand does. You can even put one in a school parking lot. The electrical infrastructure to deliver 'fuel' to just about any corner of the continent is already in place. Basically, you charge your car wherever you park it. A gas station is a destination.
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The electrical infrastructure to deliver 'fuel' to just about any corner of the continent is already in place. Basically, you charge your car wherever you park it. A gas station is a destination
Not only that, but a gas station is future super-fund site waiting to happen. Why do you think gas companies don't own stations anymore? The EPA would put them out of business actually cleaning up their messes.
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I'm curious if the neighborhood electric grid is scaled to support swapping out half or more of the 70-odd cars on the block for electric cars. Assuming a generic assortment of random cars charging at an average rate of 5kW that's a new load of 160kW.
It's probably not an issue in a cold climate in the winter (since it would balance out the power we'd normally use for air conditioning) but what about the summer?
And then I think, well, scale that up to the entire city and suddenly it seems like a whole power
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Well the cars would likely be charging during the evening and through out the night, when peak power demand has slacked off. So it's possible the infrastructure might need a little beefing up, it's also possible it'd be just fine. Another possibilities is the cars could be programmed to hold off charging until later in the evening when demand really slacks off, and in some locality power gets cheaper. Also given that the car will most of the time only need to recover 40 miles or less of charge it won't need
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Everyone always says the cars will charge late at night when demand is low, but is that a function of the charger gizmo on my garage wall or the car itself? I see people coming home from work and just plugging in the car to the wall as a matter of habit unless they have immediate plans to go someplace that evening because it will be a bitch to wake up and go to work and find that you didn't plug in and your battery doesn't have enough power to get you to work.
So in theory you could have a huge demand from
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I am by no means an authority but my impression was that the computer in the car that manages the battery pack would control the charging schedule. Maybe it'll actually be an option that you can configure depending on your needs.
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I know that Tesla's interface allows you to start and stop charging at specific times, and I assume the others do, as well. The power companies can use EV time of use rate plans to get people to charge their cars when it's best for the grid.
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If buying cars were simply a matter of price vs purely practical specifications, we'd all be driving Toyota Yaris or commercial vans. Nothing wrong with these vehicles, but sometimes people want to pay a little more to get a little something else or extra out of one of the items that is to most people one of their largest personal investments.
Yes, for a small few it might be a choice to seem trendy or fashionable.. but so what? For the vast majority of people interested there are many big picture and pragma
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I love the idea of electric cars, and Tesla is on my "lottery win" shopping list. With that said, if you apply hard numbers these cars do not make any sense at the current gas prices.
What's with this "current gas prices" meme? The current gas prices have applied for maaaybe 3 weeks, if you're lucky. And suddenly people are absolutely giddy. Yay! Gas is free again! What? No it's not. It's temporary, despite the pronouncements of random Saudi princes [usatoday.com]. It's probably short term temporary, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth when it rebounds.
Even if it's not short term temporary, I would be vastly surprised if gas prices stay this low for the lifetime of a new car pu
Re: (Score:2)
Seats? (Score:2)
Does that mean that when they finally made a car with comfortable seats, it sold out? :)
(My main problem with buying an S is that the seats actively hurt my back. Maybe because I'm 6'4. I don't know.)
Also, does Tesla need systems developers? :)
I hate cars. (Score:2)
And long for city with only pedestrian and bicycle paths and clean mass transit. Cargo and shipping is handled by an automated cart network hidden from public view.
I can dream :(
Zager and Evans (Score:2)
"Tesla To Produce 'a Few Million' Electric Cars a Year By 2025"
If man is still alive, if woman can survive... [youtube.com]
Re:Not if gas stays under $2/gallon (Score:5, Insightful)
What does Elon know that we don't know in regards to oil prices? He ain't selling that many cars if oil stays under $50 a barrel, the demand just won't be there.
While I agree that the preponderance of USA car-buyers are in fact that stupid, i.e. basing their purchase choice on an incredibly volatile price index, I would argue that the intersection of said morons with the set of people who have seriously considered an electric are is vanishingly small.
Re: (Score:2)
Which has dick-all to do with either my comment or the original posted comment on this subthread.
Not to mention your completely unsubstantiable claim that I'm a "greenie," whatever that may mean to your troubled mind.
Greenies are what I feed my dogs to keep their teeth and gums healthy. Interpret that as you wish.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
My internal combustion insurance is $650 a year. Not seeing a compelling argument there either.
Re: (Score:2)
The Tesla is not a car you buy because you can't afford gas. It is a car you try to afford because it is the best car overall: http://www.businessweek.com/ne... [businessweek.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Burning oil in a high efficiency turbine and sending it over wire is more efficient (50-60%) that putting it in a car (15%).
Re:Volt, not Bolt (Score:4, Informative)
Chevy just introduced a concept car called the Bolt. http://cleantechnica.com/2015/... [cleantechnica.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Not to mention that Musk still has that 4 month waiting period for every car Tesla can produce, so no, the AC's just being butthurt that richer people can get a Tesla before him. Musk is intending to release a $30k car just as soon as he can provide batteries for them(see gigafactory). Battery prices at 1/2 to 2/3rds of what they are now should really help there. I've seen some articles that suggest that Tesla is already producing batteries far cheaper per kWh than any other maker.
Re: (Score:2)
Which makes GM's claims about the Bolt very suspicious.
Re: (Score:2)
Which makes GM's claims about the Bolt very suspicious.
Not really if you figure that GM's planning to use the Bolt like it did the EV1: In order to meet CAFE requirements. If not rolled back, that could mean subsidizing each Bolt to the tune of several thousand dollars because you need to sell 1 Bolt for every 20 Yukons or some such.