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The Internet Communications

What Your Online Comments Say About You 267

circletimessquare writes: The New York Times has a piece summarizing some recent research and recent discussion about the quality, or lack thereof, of online comments. "[Washington State University researchers] found that the comments on a public-service announcement about vaccination affected readers' attitudes as strongly as the P.S.A. itself did. When commenters were identified by their level of expertise with the subject (i.e. as doctors), their comments were more influential than the P.S.A.s. Online readers may put a lot of stock in comments because they view commenters 'as kind of similar to themselves,' said Mr. Weber — 'they're reading the same thing, commenting on the same thing.' And, he added, many readers, especially those who are less Internet-savvy, assume commenters 'know something about the subject, because otherwise they wouldn't be commenting on it.' The mere act of commenting, then, can confer an unearned aura of credibility."
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What Your Online Comments Say About You

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  • First Post (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GloomE ( 695185 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @06:26AM (#49058997)
    But it proves nothing.
  • Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)

    by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @06:32AM (#49059003) Homepage Journal

    I most certainly do not assume anyone is an "expert" because they're posting an internet comment. I assume they're a typical, uneducated, ill-informed, panic-mongering, fear-driven sheep. And I presume everyone else thinks of my comments the same way.

    The public, as a whole, is comprised of people who are of less than average intelligence 50% of the time. And from what I see commented on news sites and such, the dumber they are, the more they have to say...

    • So your presumption is wrong.

      What have you learned about how *other people* filter and interpret information they read in comments? In particular maybe you have learned something about how uniformed comments influence the majority of people that read them, regardless of whether or not you are in that majority.

      • by guises ( 2423402 )
        Both his presumption and assumption are wrong. Is it better to assume that everyone commenting is always foolish and wrong, or that everyone commenting is expert and right? Neither assumption is correct.

        I have my own set of assumptions about the character of commenters, assumptions which are usually influenced by the site I'm reading, but even when I go into a thread with the assumption that there will be a bunch of people spouting off with an air of authority on some subject of which they actually know
        • by radl33t ( 900691 )
          If you don't have time for #3, remain skeptical and chose #2 Simple.
        • Third, you can spend hours fact checking the claim in order to eventually, finally, reassure yourself that yes, they are lying sacks of shit and no part of what they said was representative of the truth.

          How often do you actually take the third option? How often can you, really? That's like asking someone how many EULAs they read.

          All the time, actually.

          Before the internet was so comprehensive, not very much, I'll admit. But now I can search for information on just about anything, and within a minute (not "hours"), I can be reading professional journal articles on the topic.

          If I see a post I know is right (or at least includes a bunch of stuff I know is right already), I generally skim it or pass by. If I see a post that I know is wrong, I may reply with what I know, or I may just ignore it depending on how much I care.

          But

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      It does work, and you see it used all the time on TV. When some opinion mouthpiece masquerading as news wants to convince you of something they will often find an "expert" with some dubious credentials. How often do you hear phrases like "scientists believe" without reference to who those people, or if they are just claiming to be scientists without any real credentials.

      Claiming false credentials is one of the most basic and effective tactics used by people trying to manipulate public opinion, such as astro

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • No, I'm not necessarily an expert on any particular subject; I'm simply an expert at commenting.

        I'm an expert at reading comments.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Culture20 ( 968837 )

      The public, as a whole, is comprised of people who are of less than average intelligence 50% of the time.

      It's a bell curve, not a V. People with IQ "the exact number considered average" are the most populous compared to all other points on the chart. If IQ "average" was a score impossible to achieve, then your "50% below, 50% above" concept would make sense. As it is, it's a little less than 50% for both. And if "average" is a range rather than a precise number (most people consider it to be so with intelligence), then the percentages of population above and below drop considerably.

  • "Many readers [...] assume commenters 'know something about the subject, because otherwise they wouldn't be commenting on it"
    Thus my nickname.
  • she and her co-authors Aneta K. Molenda and Charlotte R. Cramer analyzed comments from three sources (The New York Times, the Discover magazine science blog and a Facebook group for science buffs)

    slashdot ? the mother of all commenting kungfu

  • Trust me. I'm just like you and I'm an expert. You can believe my comments when I tell you that this story is bogus. You and I, we're like peas in a pod and we know when a slashdot story is misleading. Less savvy readers believe stories like this but not us. NYT, WSU, what do they know? As long as we stick together we will know the truth. Right on bro!

  • This research clearly shows, the comments must be regulated — to ensure, only the certified experts are allowed to express opinions, and that all different points of view are fairly [wikipedia.org] represented. The current so-called "freedom" is, obviously, putting us in danger — and it is over-rated anyway [businessweek.com].

    To keep the "playing field" level, the hitherto unregulated online news-sources (which also attract the most dangerous comments) shall be subjected to the same rules [cato.org] as TV-broadcasters, thus shutting down the smaller and annoyingly quirky ones among them. The respected (and, incidentally, government-supporting) establishments will thus be (smartly) helped [cjr.org].

    Dissemination of information deemed incorrect by the benevolent and omniscient regulators, or failures to represent all points of view fairly, shall lead to the withdrawals of certification and any other licenses — easy to achieve without much fuss because a license, by definition is a permission granted by the Executive, and can be withdrawn (or not-renewed) without having to convince the skeptical Judiciary [latimes.com]. Anybody talking about the First Amendment shall be ignored (and put on a watch-list [examiner.com]) as a fringe crazy — this is not the 60-ies, you can not protest like that [dailycaller.com].

    • I understand the point you're trying to make, but in reality, the danger of people giving advice that actually matters when they are not qualified to do so and other people are likely to be harmed as a result is exactly why professions such as law, accountancy, engineering and medical practice are regulated by law in many places, and claiming to be qualified in these professions when you are not is then against the law.

      • claiming to be qualified in these professions when you are not is then against the law.

        First Amendment.

        You can claim anything you want with no trouble.

        You can even take money for it, if you can find someone to pay you.

        • Are you suggesting that if you walked into a public place and seriously told a security guard that you were carrying a bomb and intended to blow it up, nothing would happen?

          Personally, I don't think that's a very good idea. The consequences of just making that claim would cause significant harm to a lot of people, and I have no problem with the law prohibiting it.

          (Of course you can take this idea too far, as we've seen in the UK in recent years when absurd legal cases have been brought against people who ma

        • You can claim anything you want with no trouble.

          Yes, you can, at the bar or wherever.

          If you're claiming to be a doctor and offering medical services, however, that is a crime. Same for legal services, professional engineering services, etc.

          • by mi ( 197448 )

            If you're claiming to be a doctor [...], however, that is a crime.

            Yes, and our point is, any law prohibiting such claims is contrary to the First Amendment.

            Now, actually offering medical services — there things are less obvious, I'll give you that...

            • The part of my comment you elided was "and offering medical services", which completely changed the meaning of the quote. Are you aiming for a career in journalism?

              To be clear, it is not illegal to claim to be a doctor in contexts that don't involve offering medical advice/service, so there is no conflict with the first amendment.

      • by mi ( 197448 )

        claiming to be qualified in these professions when you are not is then against the law

        You are making an argument against the First Amendment. May be, you have a point. Indeed, many countries live without such law and/or do not consider the freedom of speech to be particularly sacred. But it is the law of the land here and is, generally, cherished by most Americans.

        Not because we want to hear more liars, but because we are afraid, the government's regulation required to keep them at bay is worse than the or

        • You are making an argument against the First Amendment.

          Yes, I am, because I find the idea that absolute freedom of speech does or should trump all other rights, freedoms and responsibilities to be dangerous, both in principle and in practice.

          It is also contrary to both the letter and the spirit of the law just about everywhere. There is literally no country on the planet -- including the United States of America -- where you can say whatever you want, regardless of the truth of it or the damage it may cause, and be immune to any consequences in law. Life just d

          • by s.petry ( 762400 )

            No! Speech is not dangerous. The only exception we could possibly argue is yelling "FIRE! Save yourself!" in a crowded theater. That is not dangerous in reality because of the words, it is dangerous because the cramped space and resulting stampede. Yell "FIRE! Save Yourself!" in an open field and people will wonder how mentally handicapped you really are. It is perfectly legal to look like an idiot.

            You do not seem to have basic grasp of what science is, let alone politics or subjects that are purely o

          • by mi ( 197448 )

            You are making an argument against the First Amendment.

            Yes, I am

            Go ahead, then, you know the process [archives.gov].

            • As I don't live in the US, the obsession with the First Amendment in certain parts of the US population isn't really my problem, nor that of anyone else where I live.

              • by mi ( 197448 )
                Ah, well, then continue to censor yourself and others in whatever hole it is you are residing.
      • Perhaps you missed the article yesterday where a prominent University proved that the FDA does not do it's job, it works for Agriculture and Pharmaceutical companies. Maybe you missed the fact that the NSA spying on everyone all the time did not catch a single terrorist event in the US, and no mass shooters were caught either (which I guess we could call not sponsored terrorism, and probably should given media's handling). Maybe you missed another prominent University study last year which determined that

        • Yes, regulatory capture is a Bad Thing. It often happens when you let politicians and the corporate interests that sponsor them dictate the terms of the debate rather than subject matter experts. That makes it an excellent argument for why subject matter experts must be free to say they are properly qualified and politicians must not be free to claim the same level of qualification when they have not earned it.

          People are fully capable of checking facts all by themselves.

          No, they aren't. That's the point. Some fields are sufficiently complicated that a normal person w

          • by s.petry ( 762400 )

            It often happens when you let politicians and the corporate interests that sponsor them dictate the terms of the debate rather than subject matter experts

            It also happens when attempting to regulate "expert's opinion". That regulation happened during the Dark Ages all the time. Governments and Religions are not run by scientists, they are run by people hoarding power in all of it's various forms. You seem to have a delusion that everyone in Government is altruistic, and I gave you some references so that you can prove it false.

            The rest of the first world called and asked for their money back.

            Bullshit! I'm not claiming the US is perfect, and surely not claiming that it's populace can't be fooled. We were fooled into a w

            • You seem to have a delusion that everyone in Government is altruistic

              I honestly have no idea where you got that from. Nothing could be further from the truth.

              In fact, the need to prevent political operatives and corporate PR departments from misleadingly claiming to hold the same peer-approved credentials as real scientists and engineers and doctors is one of the most important reasons I hold the view I do on this subject.

              In my country, for example, a drugs company may not lawfully run a TV ad that makes false claims about the effectiveness of its product. In fact, for drugs

          • by mi ( 197448 )

            That makes it an excellent argument for why subject matter experts must be free to say they are properly qualified and politicians must not be free to claim the same level of qualification when they have not earned it.

            Wonderful. Unfortunately, requiring certification — as seems to be your proposal — will continue to allow those same politicians to control, just who is free to call themselves a "subject matter expert".

            And that's a graver danger, than a few schmucks being misled by a liar.

            • Unfortunately, requiring certification — as seems to be your proposal — will continue to allow those same politicians to control, just who is free to call themselves a "subject matter expert".

              Why? The politicians don't award higher degrees and professional qualifications. Generally, within regulated industries, these matters are adjudicated by more experienced peers. In the absence of any absolute truth, I don't know of any better way to run such a system than open peer review.

              Sure, in principle you could undermine that system and corrupt the whole thing, but to do that you'd have to undermine the entire community to the extent that established participants almost unanimously agreed with your di

  • by mentil ( 1748130 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @07:08AM (#49059065)

    That explains why many news organizations are removing the ability to comment from their sites: because it was undermining the effectiveness of the favored propaganda they pass along as 'news'. Remember kids, journalistic bias is all about WHICH propaganda you decide to go to press with.

    • by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @08:42AM (#49059241) Homepage

      Or maybe the comments are just so full of utter garbage posted by the most degenerate members of society that it turns off regular readers.

      • by DamonHD ( 794830 )

        One of the reasons that I have not run my own forums, even as one of the first people with Internet connectivity in the UK for example, is the horror of dealing with that effect. I sincerely believe most people around me to be decent human beings, with some rougher edges exposed when not talking face to face.

        But what is it that happens with discussion threads?

        Rgds

        Damon

      • Yet if you gave readers the opportunity to turn on/off visible comments, I wonder which would win?

        I'm almost certain most people would leave the comments, after all, you don't have to read them. Which then suggests that no, it really IS more about protecting themselves as the sole authority, because monologue is so much easier than dialogue.

      • Brian Williams is proof. Those damn people that proved him a liar blew it, he was one of the highest rated bullshit sellers on NBC for decades.

        Oh, I know.. it's not like journalists are supposed to.. you know.. make a journal of their expeditions. They never write shit down or capture pictures.. so it was clearly "false memory" that caused the problem right?

        I really hope you are not dumb enough to believe anything you are told by media, including that last line. Brian Williams had a job of selling war, a

    • many news organizations are removing the ability to comment

      The difficulty there is that it also reduces the engagement with the readers and thus the number of times they will return to the page and therefore see the advertisements. There do appear to be many (previously respectable) newspaper websites that publish articles that are only there as click-bait.

      The the UK The Guardian (a once respectable, semi-liberal, print publication) has taken that route to publishing inflammatory, poorly written and factually incorrect op-ed / opinion pieces on its website who's

    • That explains why many news organizations are removing the ability to comment from their sites: because it was undermining the effectiveness of the favored propaganda they pass along as 'news'. Remember kids, journalistic bias is all about WHICH propaganda you decide to go to press with.

      Yup.

      Just last week, KOMO TV in Seattle aired a biased [youtube.com] Gamergate story [komonews.com] (though, as a sad indication of how low the bar is, it's way less biased than most news media). Three days later, there was a note at the bottom of every story, saying site comments are no more:
      http://www.komonews.com/news/l... [komonews.com]

      Looks like too many gamers were fact-checking their work, and it was too embarassing to let people see that happen.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Sunday February 15, 2015 @07:16AM (#49059083)

    'DrPhil' as handle more 'influential than 'BigDickForHire' ?

    Who would have thought.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @07:22AM (#49059091)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • That's just it. I'm not surprised that opinions and discussions on the Internet are of poor quality. What surprised me at some point is that the quality of those in the press and in politics aren't *that* much better if you look a little closer.
    • Just talk to people and you will se the same thing. Be it in a meeting, in a pub or wherever.

      That's somewhat true. Although, I know I "cheated" here by reading TFA, but the summary is actually quite bad in this case. For example, the first half of TFA talks a lot about sexism issues in commenting and other things.

      So it happens in the real world. It has happend since ages. Why would it surprise anybody that it happens on the Internet?

      Well, as TFA points out, one thing that is different about the internet is that the more disconnected (and often anonymous) nature of internet commenting tends to lead people to have fewer inhibitions when commenting -- probably more so than even in a pub (to take your example) for many

  • It didn't appear that they figured anything out that any moron on the internet wouldn't simply take for granted.

      It is painful... why does the new york times exist? They still are obviously baffled by the internet.

  • Drink (Score:4, Funny)

    by occasional_dabbler ( 1735162 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @08:32AM (#49059227)
    The number and length of my comments increase and their quality decreases in proportion to how much I've drunk. This is a rare, sober comment...

    Plus, obligatory XKCD [xkcd.com]

  • by kuzb ( 724081 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @08:33AM (#49059229)

    I assume everyone talking has no fucking clue what they're talking about until they prove otherwise.

    In all my many years on the internet I've come to a single conclusion: most people venture so far out of their own domains of expertise that it's saddening. You see it constantly. Bring up marijuana and suddenly everyone is a medical expert. Bring up PC repair/modification and suddenly everyone is an Engineer.

    This may just be my own unqualified opinion on the subject but it seems like nothing turns people in to a pack of complete idiots faster than anonymity.

    • This may just be my own unqualified opinion on the subject but it seems like nothing turns people in to a pack of complete idiots faster than anonymity.

      Alcohol and firearms work better for that, but you do have to be in meatspace.

    • This may just be my own unqualified opinion on the subject but it seems like nothing turns people in to a pack of complete idiots faster than anonymity.

      Agreed -- which is the primary case for pseudonymity.

      I agree that there is plenty of value in real names on the internet when someone is actually going to offer something in their official professional capacity or area of expertise. When some dude starts spouting medical advice, and you can found out that he's using his real name AND is a doctor, maybe that can change your judgment.

      But maybe that doctor also wants to offer other opinions on topics related to medical science, but maybe the issues are mo

  • by Bogtha ( 906264 ) on Sunday February 15, 2015 @09:17AM (#49059315)

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, on Slashdot of all places. How many times have you seen a shitty submission here and comments correcting it? It's practically Slashdot's unofficial slogan: "yeah, the stories are awful, but I come for the comments".

    • The comments in the "Nim Programming Language Gaining Traction" submission on the front page are pretty awful at the moment. Let's hope you are right and the quality of subsequent comments increases dramatically. I was hoping for better ...

    • The comments say a lot about the site readership. Slashdot trends better on average, I think a reflection of that fact that many people on here have taken time to educate themselves about life in general, beyond just their careers. OTOH, I am always appalled at WSJ on how badly thought out the comments tend to be.

      The other phenomenon I see is that for enthusiast sites for autos, watches, etc., the comments tend to all come from the same few people with thousands of posts.
    • by solios ( 53048 )

      Slashdot's comments are upvoted/downvoted in a more granular fashion than any other site out there and comment display can be skewed by user preferences - I penalize "funny" posts and really wish I could do the same on Reddit. The best the rest of the internet has managed to implement is a Nero-style upvote/downvote system, which puts the same weight on puns and one-liners as it does on trolls and insightful responses.

      Commenting in general is ripe for disruption - if Disqus [disqus.com] upgraded from upvote/downvote to

    • @Bogtha: 'How many times have you seen a shitty submission here and comments correcting it? It's practically Slashdot's unofficial slogan: "yeah, the stories are awful, but I come for the comments".'

      It's rare that any comment here adds to the total sum of human knowledge. For instance just take a look at the comments on "Nim Programming Language Gaining Traction [slashdot.org]".
  • many readers, especially those who are less Internet-savvy, assume commenters 'know something about the subject, because otherwise they wouldn't be commenting on it.

    I believe that people are more inclined to give credibility to comments that they already have some sympathy with - rather than ones which take an opposing view.

    I've never seen any follow-up comments, anywhere, that say "yes, you're right. I used to think differently, but your arguments have persuaded me I was wrong". At best you get other like-minded people agreeing with you and at worst you get those who disagree making an extreme, offensive, insulting or threatening retorts.

    It also seems likely that t

    • by DamonHD ( 794830 )

      Confirmation bias is strong even when people try to avoid it, but I have once or twice even here on /. said words to the effect "thank you for that explanation I didn't have a clue" and "yes, I take your point".

      It can happen, just not often, and changing an opinion is often a slow and gradual (and sometimes embarrassing) process, unlikely to be visible in the course of a single response.

      Rgds

      Damon

  • What Your Online Comments Say About You

    They say I should drink more.

  • Everyone over the age of 5 knows a Public Service Announcement is propaganda. Of course the comments were more influential; they didn't have to clear a high bar. Give it a few years and everyone will know the comments are mostly from shills, trolls, and know-nothings, and we'll be back to the healthy status quo of no one with any sense believing anything they read without triple-checking it.

  • Aren't they essentially demonstrating how gossip works? The folks that talk the most about stuff you're interested in always seem to have the most credibility.

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