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Google The Courts IT

Median Age At Google Is 29, Says Age Discrimination Lawsuit 349

dcblogs writes: The typical employee at Google is relatively young, according to a lawsuit brought by an older programmer who is alleging age discrimination. Between 2007 and 2013, Google's workforce grew from 9,500 to more than 28,000 employees, "yet as of 2013, its employees' median age was 29 years old," the lawsuit claims. That's in contrast to the median age of nearly 43 for all U.S. workers who are computer programmers, according to the lawsuit.
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Median Age At Google Is 29, Says Age Discrimination Lawsuit

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:16PM (#49541575)

    There is no law against outsourcing interviews to incompetent people. Exactly zero of the crappy behaviors of his interviewer sound remotely age targeted. In fact, older people are generally more patient with technologically inept folk than younger, and it seems unlikely they disqualified him for excessive patience.

    As for the stats on their median age, that's the median age of the employees not the people that were hired. I hear Google tends to overwork it's employees. The older you are, the less patience you have for that crap.

    If you handed out high quality stuffed unicorns to a perfectly evenly age-distributed portion of the population, you'd find after a couple years the people still in possession of said objects were disproportionately 4-9 year old girls. This is not evidence that you discriminated in any way.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:37PM (#49541701)

      We've got this guy coming for an interview, he's got the experience and training we asked for, in fact he's the ideal candidate, except for one thing - he's too old. He'll want a salary to match his value and he won't be a yes man. So let's interview him but make him look really inept by getting the worst person we have to do technical interviews. Then we say he want very good in the interview and it looks like we're giving all age ranges a chance.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Actually tech workers should get paid as much as lawyers. stop giving away the jobs to shit indian and we can get some money for all. As for older workers which I am I have banged out more code than these twits have changed socks. takes no time to learn an new bit and use it well..

        if two people are equal on the resume but one has more experience who is older, and you pick the younger for "social fit" , thats open and shut lawsuit.

        Kids today, want parties every Friday, free lunch and big salaries that say

        • by AuMatar ( 183847 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @08:07PM (#49541875)

          Have you seen what the average lawyer makes? We do. The average lawyer doesn't even get a job out of law school these days.

          • Well, now that ROSS [rossintelligence.com] has entered the workforce, things are about to get a lot worse for the majority of lawyers employed. It will thin the ranks. In fact, the further it goes up the chain, the more paranoid politicians will become. If there was ever the impetus to legislate AI from employment opportunities, ROSS could give them all the ammo they need.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @08:13PM (#49541903)

          Actually tech workers should get paid as much as lawyers.

          Tech workers, especially engineers, should get paid more than lawyers since our skills actually create value.

        • "Director" is not earned from technical competence, but from political maneuvering and brown nosing. Ie, it's a reward for loyalty. Good companies will spot this and be much more picky about how gets to be director, but bad companies will be chock full of director level people who are incompetent at being a director (even if they were competent at their lower rank jobs).

          But then remember that director has to be a brown noser and political player as part of the actual job itself. They must deal with highe

          • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @09:51PM (#49542411)

            Speaking as a Director who works directly for a CEO, I don't brown nose for shit. I might be respectful, understand business requirements, and dress somewhat better than your standard developer or admin, but I'm no politician. Just the thought of me as an actual politician makes me giggle.

            Getting to be a manager was a little bit of looking out for an opportunity, putting myself forward, and working up the ranks. Yeah, I don't get to sit and code all day long, but just the coordination that I have to do and the experience I have with dealing with bullshit is worth every penny they pay me. The place I worked at before didn't even have a process for taking orders from Sales and provisioning customers. No one had actually thought of how you'd actually give someone an account. Or how to tell finance that they should, you know, start charging the customers money. Guess who does that?

            Oh and that new technology you just had a nerdgasm over? Someone has to figure out how to pay for that shit. Have you ever had to get money out of a CFO? It's like they hire people who believe that every dollar bill is their precious firstborn child. You have to make proposals and budgets and graphs, and THEN they ask you if you can wait two weeks for it. And THEN they delay payment on the bill until you're on your third notice and about to be cancelled. Guess who is fucked if they make a mistake and get us shut off due to that little game of "Hide the phone line payment".

            You'd think that's easy shit. It isn't. I spend more time trying to figure out how to interface my unit with other units than I do supervising my staff. Fuck, they pretty much do their own thing based on some requirements I give them. Of course, that's because I spent a fuckload of time and effort trying to hire a qualified staff who don't need me to shove my hand up their ass and puppet them through doing that job.

            Yes, there are some brown nosers, especially in big companies, but in small companies, a director earns their money because you're expected to manage and do the work, and figure out how things work that you took for granted as a grunt.

            Google? If they're making 29 year olds into Directors, well, they're either management geniuses or they're fucked in the long run. Technical management doesn't mean that you are alpha nerd. You're supposed to be an experienced senior manager who knows how to get shit out of executives WITHOUT the reach around. If you're a kiss-ass, you're doing it wrong and the executives will eat you for lunch.

      • They don't pick an inept person to do the interviewing in order to filter out the expensive candidate. Instead Google has a policy that totally inept people must do the interviewing. The interviewer seems to be either chosen at random or in a round robin fashion. The intentionally choose interviewers who are from different departments or fields than the person being interviewed.

        It would seem the only time such an ridiculous interview strategy could work is when you're interviewing for entry level jobs.

      • Usually positions describe how much experience they require. If a very experienced person shows up to interview for an entry level engineer position expecting a salary to match his experience, then he's SOL. If you've put out a job offer for a senior engineer position, you should be expecting the candidates to want a salary to match their value. Not all companies pay as well as Google, that's why so many people want to work there.

        There is really no reason for Google to not hire someone that is well quali

    • by tool462 ( 677306 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @08:08PM (#49541877)

      Agreed. Google may or may not discriminate, but their median age is likely has a large component of self selection. I'm only 35, and I'm already at full-Murtaugh. I'm too old for that shit. I see a company with cafeterias open late, games, etc, and I see a company that wants me to spend every waking hour at work. I've been there and done that. I loved it in my early 20s, but now mid-30s me is stuck supporting the code that guy wrote. I hate that guy...

      • Both or none? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @11:50PM (#49543019)

        Like you I no longer live to work, I work to live. My 20s and early 30s were my 80-100 hour work weeks. That aside, I was contacted by a Google recruiter and heard the same. "You would be great for this team because of your experience". I received similar treatment interviewing at Google, and figured it could have been a series of mistakes. I was given options for a "test" and provided my options. When it came time for the interview my options were not available (those guys were all sick, on vacation, or died on Bart...). My resume is very clear on my work experiences and knowledge, yet I was not asked a single question about anything on my resume. Instead I was grilled about the ICMP for about 20 minutes, on everything from header content to available flags and forging a packet. Which is really a bizarre line of questions since I don't have "developed network products/protocols" anywhere near my resume and the position was not as a developer. The "test" only lasted a few minutes at which point the interviewer started asking me questions on a different language library.

        Lastly he told me that if I was hired Google expected people to work all kinds of crazy hours. To which I answered that while I am at work I work very hard, but I don't work more than I am salaried for without good justification and compensation. "You probably won't fit in".

        While I could have been setup to fail due to my age, the interviewer was at least up front about Google's expectation. I'm very employable, so won't be risking that by joining any class action lawsuits

      • I see a company with cafeterias open late, games, etc, and I see a company that wants me to spend every waking hour at work.

        Actually, Google doesn't. The cafes are open late because people work all sorts of odd schedules. Some don't come in until noon and leave late, some show up early and take off at 3. In the Mountain View office there's a lot of both of those patterns, mainly because traffic sucks so bad that people try to schedule around it.

        As for the games and stuff, that's just recognition that taking a break is good for think time. Massage services, espresso bars, etc., are all parts of that.

        I've been a Google software engineer for four years and there has never been the slightest pressure on me to work long hours. Not only has no one ever asked me to, no one has hinted, implied or anything else, and on a few occasions when I chose to work late my old manager noticed and told me to go home. I'm not saying every manager is that way, in fact I don't think my current manager would ever say anything to me about my work schedule, whether I worked around the clock or hardly at all. Eventually my lack of productivity would provoke a response, though it would probably take a quarter or so.

        Now, there are people who work a lot of hours at Google. Mostly young people who don't have anything better to do and are really excited about what they're building. And mostly no one tells them not to. But there are plenty of others who work normal hours, and no one says anything to them, either.

        BTW, I'm 45.

    • That would still qualify as indirect discrimination: a measure which is applied equally to everyone but affects people of different ages differently. Unless Google can prove in court that overworking is a proportional and justifiable necessity, they are liable for age discrimination.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Regardless of intent or not, certain practices may indeed lead to age-tilted hiring as an actual end result. That doesn't necessarily make it "right", though.

      One can argue a company is obligated to balance its employees' race, gender, and age to reflect the external population of available talent. This may involve counter-acting other hiring practices that indirectly lead to imbalances. Using your example, either stop paying in pink unicorn pillows, or adjust your hiring to match calculated age goals to co

    • Ya, their interview structure is utterly incompetent. They randomly pick people who may not have the necessary skills and experience for the job that they will evaluate a candidate for.

  • Always someone else's.

    Hint: not all your new hires will be cute Asian gamer chicks in wheelchairs.

  • by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:27PM (#49541639)

    Is that I can't support this lawsuit even though it would benefit "MY GROUP"

    The whole Idea of group quotas is garbage. supporting them reduces you from a human being to counter for an outrage hustler. Even if your group wins you lose. You lose the concept of "INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS" you lose the right to choose the people you associate with and do business with.

    If your such a hot shot coder and you have that much experience in the field why didn't you start your own business ? Google doesn't owe anyone except their shareholders and bondholders anything.

    • You can be the world's greatest engineer and yet have zero skills for starting your own business. There's very little overlap between those two skill sets.

      If you have your own business then you live every day on the edge, you have to invest your own money and property into your own business. With a job you let other people do the gambling instead. Five years on a job that goes bankrupt still earns you 5 years of paychecks. Five years on your own business that fails may mean you have nothing to show for

    • "If your such a hot shot coder and you have that much experience in the field why didn't you start your own business ?"

      hot shot coder != hot shot entrepeneur

      That's why.

  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:34PM (#49541689) Journal

    I've learned over time that skills are only about half the factors of hiring decisions (with exceptions for high-demand specialties). Personality and "feeling" issues play the other half.

    A work-place has a culture just like any village or geographical region, and if you don't fit the culture, your are likely to be turned away. Age of growing up is part of that "culture". I'm not saying it's fair, but rather that it's human nature.

  • by Shados ( 741919 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:41PM (#49541721)

    Google is a discrimination factory, but in this case, there's a deeper problem, and its, what I'll call, the "MIT culture".

    You have a bunch of people who busted their ass off to go through MIT/CMU/CalTech/Whatever, to learn all those algorithms, the computer science core, etc, and are thrown in the real world where, while VERY useful, are only a small subsets of things that matter.

    Then you ask these people, who spent 4 (or 6, or more) years being drilled that the only shit that matters was what they learnt in school, and worked REALLY hard to absorb that, to interview.

    What do you think will happen?

    You end up with an interview process that, regardless of the actual work, the further away from school you are (ie: the older you are), the less likely you are to pass the interview, give or take people who worked as data or algorithm scientists in the recent past.

    Net result: you have a very high percentage of college hire, and your lateral hires will always lean toward the younger side. Any skill that come with experience is almost never tested in interviews to counterbalance it.

    • by al0ha ( 1262684 )
      Please - Caltech is not intercapped. :P

      Go Beavers!
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I call it "PhD syndrome" and you describe it well. I always joked that if you ask me to write a sort routine in the interview, I'm going to lecture you about why you need to go off the shelf, and doesn't Google have anyone who can make a shareable library? Do we really need to know how to code a lightning sort ad hoc? To sell more ads? heh

      • I always joked that if you ask me to write a sort routine in the interview, I'm going to lecture you about why you need to go off the shelf, and doesn't Google have anyone who can make a shareable library?

        Then you'd come across as someone with an attitude. Good luck with that.

        The reason an interviewer asks you to write a sort routine is to separate you from the candidates who can't (of which there are many, sadly.) The interviewer wants to see how you approach a simple problem and how you solve it.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @09:53PM (#49542421)

          its stupid to demand or even ask a programmer to recall, from memory, a whole algorithm. what a total waste of time! even before the net, it was a waste of time (there were books back then).

          what I would ask is: here's an alg, can you adapt it to do this or that? why is this a good starting point vs some other alg?

          TALK about things, but don't ask me to recite code on a board. in my 25+ yrs of doing C (and other software) eng work, I have NEVER had to code 'live' in front of an audience or via a timed interval, other than the 'new breed' of interviews that moron companies like google engage in.

          you can tell that they have no clue how to interview; its all kids who recently graduated and so, memorization is ALL those brats know. yes, I'm pissed, because it locks us older folks out and without just cause. memorizing is the last thing I would want an analytic mind spent on!

          oh, just because YOU know this thing you think everyone should? I spent a bit of time in hardware design, too - you think its fair game to ask what pin 7 and pin 14 mean, generally, on TTL chips? if you have touched hardware at all, you'd know this, but I doubt even 10% of googlers would know it. I know it. why shouldn't they?

          see, same logic fallacy. I would not demand anyone know my domain of expertise and I would not flunk them for it. but they surely do flunk us for not knowing THEIR pet problems or algorithms.

          google hired brainy but really clueless people, overall. I've interviewed there quite a few times (on site) and seen it first-hand. pretty sickening when you go down there and its all about them wanting to show off and to find reasons to mark you down rather than try to find reasons to hire you.

          google really is for the young. the young deserve google and google deserves the young and foolish. and now that I've seen what the make-up of typical googlers are, I now realize why so much of their software fails and is EOL'd in no time flat. its why I call them the classic 'short attention span' company of this decade.

          • its stupid to demand or even ask a programmer to recall, from memory

            Yes, this is why one of the requirements for good Google interview questions is that they not rely on specific knowledge. They tend to ask you to invent and implement a new algorithm, not remember an old one. Where interviewers do ask questions that require specific knowledge, they're happy to provide whatever you don't remember.

        • by tnk1 ( 899206 )

          I suppose, but I'd rather take my time asking you your knowledge of key libraries and interfaces and more complicated concepts, rather than asking you to code me a sort.

          If you really wanted to test someone's rote memorization of the Big O notation values of various algorithms, then just ask them to give you some examples of n or n log n or whatever. You do need to understand the reason that a sort is better than another, and it's nice to have a set of sorts handy for general purpose use, but really, is tha

    • I spend some amount of time interviewing programming candidates at my job. We ask some questions and require some code samples that you might consider on the algorithm-y side. We don't require that you be able to talk about it using academic terms, but they are still an important part of our process. As a very basic example, we don't expect you to be able to tell us what the Big O of an operation is, but if you can't talk reasonably about the difference in performance characteristics between a linked list a
  • Missing data point. (Score:5, Informative)

    by jklovanc ( 1603149 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:43PM (#49541735)

    What is the median age of people who are applying to Google? I suspect that many older programmers are set in their job and/or do not have the skills in the newer technology and do not apply.

    • by ark1 ( 873448 )
      In interviews, Google actually focuses more on fundamental concepts which don't change that much over time (architecture/design, system internals, algorithms/data structures etc...) rather than specific technologies. You can code in the language of your choice most of the time. Problem is most people don't need/know or refuse to apply good foundations in their day to day job.
    • What is the median age of people who are applying to Google? I suspect that many older programmers are set in their job and/or do not have the skills in the newer technology and do not apply.

      I suspect this is the case. Each year Google went to my graduate department and tried to recruit everyone who was coming out. Among the foreign students in particular you could walk up to a random student, ask them when they were doing their Google interview, and you'd almost always get an answer (foreign students liked big companies because it made the H1B stuff easier)

      Google is also a very young company. They're not going to have people who have been around for 20 years because they haven't been around 20

  • Hiring Methods (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Raven ( 30575 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:45PM (#49541743) Homepage

    I'm no Googler, nor have I interviewed, but I suspect this is more about Google's hiring methods than their hiring policies or biases. They run contests, which are essentially easter egg hunts that result in a potential interview. Who has the time and inclination to play around with hoops like that? The young, college attending, and childless nerds and hackers. They don't need to have a bias in who they hire, because they create an innate bias in who chooses to apply by putting that 'application' behind a lot of hoops and rigamarole.

    • by richieb ( 3277 )
      Actually the book by Laszlo Bock "Work Rules", explains a lot about the Google hiring process. The most important point he makes is that hiring decisions at Google are made by committees of engineers, not managers.
    • They run contests, which are essentially easter egg hunts that result in a potential interview

      No, they don't. Google did try that once, with math problems on billboards. Lazlo Bock says those billboards resulted in zero hires.

      (I'm a Google engineer.)

  • ... in the company culture is a wholly reasonable justification for an employer to not hire someone who is otherwise even the most qualified job applicant. While age shouldn't ever be a reason to exclude an otherwise entirely competent person, if the fact is that if the rest of the office isn't going to easily be able to relate to the person simply because this one person is so much older than they are, that can introduce a communication barrier, however unintentional it may be on everyone's part and that
  • Google (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @07:46PM (#49541753)

    I don't want to belabor the point, but Google isn't a very good place to work. They have tons of money to spend on marketing to make their company seem like it is a good place to work. Coke has a large budget to convince you that its beverages are tasty, too. It's no different.

    The best place for programmers to work is where you decide what you want to do, you can override stupid decisions made by management, and where you have a large stake in the success or failure of the company. At Google programmer happiness doesn't matter so much as ad revenue. If that one division of the company continues to do well, be prepared to do whatever stupid thing the rest of the company wants you do to.

    Don't expect to have a life outside of the company, or have things like a healthy sex life. Remember that you're stuck in Silicon Valley where there are not enough available women unless you're extremely wealthy. Better have a hundred grand in the bank. Basic cost of living runs you $5,000/month, and there is always the chance of getting laid off for a few months. Seems like a bit of a scam for well educated but naive individuals to get sucked into.

    • Re:Google (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @08:52PM (#49542087)

      While experiences may differ, for me Google has offered all of these things (except for the large stake in success/failure of the company, but that's just because it's a big company). There are ample opportunities to transfer to other teams if I don't like what I'm working on, and my input is generally welcomed when it comes to what I should work on. I've also pushed back to my superiors when I thought they were wrong, and when I was able to back up my statements with data (which has always been the case when I really believed I'm right and they're wrong), they backed down, with generally amiable interactions maintained throughout.

      The only pressure I've experienced from Google with respect to my life outside of Google is to make sure I am able to disconnect from work. Some people have a difficult time disconnecting, but that's usually because they enjoy the work they're doing. For the most part it's a personal choice, and Google gives employees resources to help them to disconnect so that they can maintain a good work/life balance.

      With respect to location, yes most of Google's employees work out of the Mountain View office, and the cost of living there is a serious problem. But there are a number of other offices around the world, many of them with more than a thousand engineers.

      I don't know where you get your information from, but I don't think your experiences come close to the experiences of most employees at Google today. I generally think that Google is a wonderful place to work, with wonderful people, an inclusive culture, and great benefits. I don't know how well it compares to other companies, but I don't doubt that Google deserves its "best place to work" awards.

      • This AC nails it. I'm also a Google SWE. And I have gotten yelled at (figuratively) for not disconnecting :-)

        While experiences may differ, for me Google has offered all of these things (except for the large stake in success/failure of the company, but that's just because it's a big company). There are ample opportunities to transfer to other teams if I don't like what I'm working on, and my input is generally welcomed when it comes to what I should work on. I've also pushed back to my superiors when I thought they were wrong, and when I was able to back up my statements with data (which has always been the case when I really believed I'm right and they're wrong), they backed down, with generally amiable interactions maintained throughout.

        The only pressure I've experienced from Google with respect to my life outside of Google is to make sure I am able to disconnect from work. Some people have a difficult time disconnecting, but that's usually because they enjoy the work they're doing. For the most part it's a personal choice, and Google gives employees resources to help them to disconnect so that they can maintain a good work/life balance.

        With respect to location, yes most of Google's employees work out of the Mountain View office, and the cost of living there is a serious problem. But there are a number of other offices around the world, many of them with more than a thousand engineers.

        I don't know where you get your information from, but I don't think your experiences come close to the experiences of most employees at Google today. I generally think that Google is a wonderful place to work, with wonderful people, an inclusive culture, and great benefits. I don't know how well it compares to other companies, but I don't doubt that Google deserves its "best place to work" awards.

  • From my observations, Google wants people with high intelligence, but low life-experience and ideally a somewhat infantile personality. You know those that are most easily manipulated with toys and shiny things. That these are mostly found in the lower age ranges is no surprise.

    • You mean, people who believe that nothing is impossible?
    • by richieb ( 3277 )
      What observations? How many Google employees have you talked to? Did you try to compile a random sample?
      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Do you have a working brain? Have you compared it with others? Did you make sure you are actually able to read and try that on a random sample of text?

  • I'm a Java developer. I have a decade of experience doing that.
    Why are all these companies hiring .Net developers not even giving me a chance at an interview? It's all computer programming. They're discriminating against me!
    This lawyer believes all computer programming is the same.

    Last bank I worked at, all the cobol programmers were 20 years old than me. They probably get paid handsomely for their niche skill set.
    Is it discrimination that they don't have young people in their team?

    How about he gets better

    • by ADRA ( 37398 )

      A company that I contracted for had a fleet of young Cobol dev's who replaced the previously retiring workforce because upgrading the system to a new arch was too much money (at the time).

      Oh, and COBOL is almost rediculously easy to learn. The big money is in knowing the business processes that those developers probably spent decade(s) mastering.

    • I'm a Java developer. I have a decade of experience doing that. Why are all these companies hiring .Net developers not even giving me a chance at an interview?

      Probably because they're idiots?

      Ooh sorry we wanted a carpenters with five years experience in American white oak. I see you've only got experience in American red oak and *European* oak (and a selection of other hardwoowd and some softwoods) too.

      You're probably not a good fir for the company.

      Companies that obsess over overly specific skillsets inste

  • and the young and dumb stayed around?

    i've been offered positions at google over the years, wasted time with their bullshit interviews and even turned them down a few times - as we get older; we are more inclined to start our own businesses and be entrepreneurs.. it is not a shock that the younger generation of engineers want to work at a company like Google. what they need here is to also bring in relevant data around startups; how many people actually left Google to start their own thing?

  • by TsuruchiBrian ( 2731979 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @08:43PM (#49542041)

    If I went to apply for a job at google, and didn't get the job, it probably wouldn't occur to me to sue them, especially if I felt I was so talented as to deserve a job worthy of my high skill level. I would say "They're loss" and move on to the next interview.

    The last old person that my company hired (we actually hired him), threatened the company with an age discrimination lawsuit, and the company paid him a year's salary to avoid the lawsuit. It wasn't age discrimination. He was mentally unstable, he refused to obey instructions from managers, and his code was terrible.

    It takes a certain kind of person to want to sue a company (without ever working for them), without considering the possibility that they may not want you for a reason other than your old age, and going through all the effort to sue this company rather than moving on and offering your amazing talents to a company that will actually appreciate you.

    If I were Google, I would not be happy about being sued, but I would be relieved that he was not hired. If he were hired, no doubt Google would be sued by this person for age discrimination for not getting promotions or being fired, etc.

    Who knows, maybe the person in charging of deciding to hire this person was discriminating against them based on age. But he doesn't know that, and he is probably a terrible hire because of his willingness to litigate.

  • I just have to wonder why we're all amazed as jobs get moved overseas with all the posturing, extortion and lawsuits that go on against companies. I mean if Google did it, then shame on them but if I had Jesse Jackson [foxbusiness.com] and Al Sharpton [nypost.com] doing their shakedown dance along with age, sex and X discrimination suits, it's no wonder that more jobs are being pushed overseas. On one side I praise businesses that are keeping jobs here and also saying "more power to you" in the face of all this litigation and extortion.

  • by tlambert ( 566799 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @09:23PM (#49542231)

    Personally, I don't think he was talking to Google; at least not directly.

    He got called by a recruiter, supposedly for Google, who set up a phone interview Looking for C/C++ and Java. Fine. There's an outside chance of Java, either as an Android App developer, or for some server back end crap at a company they purchased. It's unlikely, but it's possible (in 2011, they hired people to work at Google, and then groups decided to offer them, and then you got a choice of usually one of 3 groups... you didn't know what you'd be working on at interview time, and there was no such thing as "hiring for position" unless you were net.famous).

    Then he didn't get sent a Google Docs link by the interviewer. You are *always* sent a Google Docs link by the interviewer, unless you are in a city/area where Google has a facility, then you are instead brought in to use the video conferencing at the Google location.

    Then he got an interviewer who barely spoke English, and wouldn't take him off speakerphone. That never happens at Google.

    The interviewer was 10 minutes late to the call.

    Frankly, sir, IMHO, you got played.

    You just got man-in-the-middled by an Indian or other foreign person who wanted a job at Google, and got you to ghost his or her phone interview for them, with the help of a "recruiter"/"interviewer" who had you on lousy speakerphone so that they could relay your answers directly via a cell phone to the person Google was actually talking to.

    Yes, this happens.

    No, savvy technical people generally don't fall for it, because they get an email from Google telling you the schedule, there's a Google Doc URL sent out with an @google.com address, and if you look at the email headers in the email of the schedule, you'll see that they are probably forged, assuming you got one at all.

    Congratulations on being played, Mr. Robert Heath.

  • Well, it's been estimated that the number programmers doubles about every 5 years. So if you 40 that means you have been programming for about 20 years, so that means that about 90% of programmers will be younger than you. So if a company's median age is 43 that means they discriminate against young people. Here is a link [cleancoder.com] with some data.
    • Well, it's been estimated that the number programmers doubles about every 5 years.

      That was a misprint; that's not the actual number of them, as individuals, that's by weight.

  • Old vs Young (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @10:34PM (#49542637) Journal

    This conversation always seems to forget that everyone who is old was young and that everyone who is young will be old. It's in young peoples interests to make sure older people are respected for what they have learned as much as it is in older peoples interests to help make sure younger people can establish careers.

    What we should be criticizing is the myopic view of companies that devalue the experiences of older people to exploit the energies of younger people. It robs younger people of the opportunity to access the experiences that made older people's brains more efficient for problem solving - that is what experience is. It not only robs older people of work opportunities, it also robs them of seeing ideas built on and evolved. That denial of perspective is what holds back the evolution of ideas.

    If this is true within Google then it renders their motto 'Don't be evil' hypocritical. The denial of wisdom and experience is a recipe for fragility for companies who don't have access to key knowledge at key times required for them to survive. That is why you pay more for experience, the ROI on youth.

    In reality ageism is discrimination against anyone subject to the progression of time.

  • elder Googler (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23, 2015 @11:30PM (#49542925)

    I have a cousin who, through a series of acquisitions, now finds himself an employee of Google. He's 56 years old, and because of his hire date with his original employer, he has more years of employment than Google has existed. Which gave HR some trouble, as they had to revise some of their benefits formulas to accommodate someone that "senior". He's not the oldest Googler he's come across ... but the only guy older than him that he works with is a fellow "acquisition" employee, who came along when their company was bought.

    He talks about it with good humor, but that's mostly because he's spent the last 30 years making good money and preparing carefully for retirement, so he'll be OK if he finds himself pushed to the curb ... and because he knows that he has value to HR as "proof" that Google employs people well over 40 (even though he never actually went thru their hiring process). Hell, if he ever gets let go, he says he could win the age-discrimination lawsuit in his sleep, it would be that easy. (And this was from a good Republican who generally doesn't believe in anti-discrimination laws.)

  • by Baldrson ( 78598 ) * on Friday April 24, 2015 @02:01AM (#49543409) Homepage Journal

    If non-technical guys like Owen Wilson and Vince Vaughn played in "The Internship [imdb.com]" at ages 46 and 45 respectively can get jobs at Google, what's wrong with the rest of these no-talent old farts? This smells like envy, if you ask this faithful movie-goer.

  • by ggraham412 ( 1492023 ) on Friday April 24, 2015 @08:39AM (#49544291)

    Lot's of commenters with posting as "anonymous coward". Hoping for a job at Google someday?

Multics is security spelled sideways.

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