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Microsoft: Only the Latest Version of Windows Will Support New CPU Generations ( 458

Joe_Dragon sends news from Microsoft about how the company will support Windows now and in the future. The company says PCs built with Intel's Skylake chip, and other new architectures in the future, will require the latest version of Windows for support. This doesn't take effect right away; Windows 7 and 8.1 will be supported on older chips until their planned end-of-life dates, in 2020 and 2023 respectively. They'll also be supported on a list of current Skylake devices for the next 18 months. After that, only the latest version of Windows will support integration between the operating system and new CPU features. "For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon." Microsoft also mentioned that for new supported systems, the company will "ensure all drivers will be on Windows Update with published BIOS/UEFI upgrading tools." The submitter adds, "Putting BIOS/UEFI updates in to the Windows 10 auto- / forced-update system may open Microsoft to paying $600-$1,000+ to replace broken laptops. If Windows tries to update BIOS/UEFI at a bad/risky time (like during power instability in a big storm), it could lead to an update loop or worse."
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Microsoft: Only the Latest Version of Windows Will Support New CPU Generations

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  • no thanks (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 16, 2016 @10:37AM (#51313401)

    wow microsoft, you are really working OVERTIME to make sure we all really hate and despise your horrible joke of an operating system.

    just say no to windoz 10

    • wow microsoft, you are really working OVERTIME to make sure we all really hate and despise your horrible joke of an operating system.

      Actually in this announcement for those people that are thinking of moving to Windows 10, the only new piece of information is:
      a) It'll fully support all the features of upcoming processors.
      b) The complicated process of BIOS updates are now done through Windows Update.

      A win in every category, but don't let some good news get in the way of a good old generic Windows 10 hatefest.

  • by silanea ( 1241518 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @10:40AM (#51313423)

    As long as the chips adhere to the X86/x64 standards, how relevant is this announcement? Yes, newly introduced extensions and features may not be backported to Windows 7, but unless this OS will not run at all on next-gen silicone, this is nothing but FUD.

    Am I missing something here? Do Skylake et al. really require substantial modificaitons to existing OSs?

    • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @10:52AM (#51313489) Homepage

      Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support.

      If Windows 10 is required for support, it means Windows <10 is unsupported. Whether that means it will simply be unsupported and any problems you run into will be your own or if it simply won't run, ask Microsoft. But it won't be supported and it certainly won't use all the bells and whistles - though I don't think anyone asked for that.

    • by RichMan ( 8097 )

      See the CPU bug of last week where a math operation can cause SkyLake processors to crash. It can be worked around with a BIOS upgrade that avoids the problem by using a trap to escape the crash. Things like that need BIOS updates on systems in the field. A lot happens under the hood the regular users are not aware of.

      • How is that relevant? The entire BIOS update bit was only talking about BIOS updates coming to Windows Update. It doesn't say anything about you not applying your own in the future.

    • I'd also like to know what is special about Skylake chips that they require OS support. Even Linux guys need kernel 4.4 to have proper Skylake support.
    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      That's what I'm worried about and maybe the primary target for Microsoft isn't old versions of Windows but alternate operating systems. If the change stops older versions, what's there to say that it won't block anything else as well?

  • Seriously, how much longer are you Microsoft holdouts going to put up with this imperialistic, authoritarian bullshit from Microsoft? They are doing everything they can to jam their spyware/malware OS down your throat whether you asked for it or not: as you well know if you have 7, Vista, 8, or 8.1, you're getting it shoved in your face, installed whether you ask for it or not, and if somehow you manage to dodge all that, they're still trying to sneak in their 'telemetery' (read as: spyware/malware) updates

    • I will personally put up with it until someone releases a solid, AAA FPS for linux. I only need one good one, with the promise of sequels & updates.

      Why a CIO or CEO would put up with it is beyond me.
      I recently forced 200 people to switch from Office 2003 to Libre Office. They weren't particularly happy about it but the world didn't end.
    • I'll put up with it until 2020, when windows 7 is no longer updated. That seems reasonable, since I can block the telemetry patches.

      And security researchers are having a field day looking for new telemetry patches, so I'm not even worried about surprises.

      Normal precautions until then.

      • by caseih ( 160668 )

        Yes maybe by 2020 will be the year of the Linux Desktop!

        • I realise you're joking, but one of the interesting possibilities on that sort of time scale might be for Google to start targetting desktop/laptop PCs with some variation of Android, in which case we really might see mass market Linux on the desktop. It would be interesting to see how that would affect the whole client/server/cloud strategy Google have been pursuing in recent years.

          Some other plausible moves in the industry on that timescale might be changes at Apple leading to much increased desktop/lapto

    • by jones_supa ( 887896 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:13AM (#51313565)

      trying to sneak in their 'telemetery' (read as: spyware/malware) updates onto your systems so they can collect your personal data, steal your files, and whatever else it is they're doing that qualifies as cybercrime.

      Facepalm. That's just overblown trash-talk. Microsoft collects basic telemetry like system uptime, installed updates, and how many times you have used UWP apps. They don't touch your personal files and they don't know what you do inside apps.

      • by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:24AM (#51313629) Homepage

        How do you know about that?

        • by mikael ( 484 )

          It's easy enough to find out. I had an old desktop PC running Windows XP, and which hadn't been dejunkified for years. When it came to replacing the OS, it was time to have an OS demolishing party. Start by saving and transferring away all the files that needed to be saved. That left a user account with several gigabytes of data unaccounted for, as well as loads of system logs (uptime, applications used, driver loading) that were choking the defragmenter. Turns out all those "locked and unmovable files" wer

      • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @12:40PM (#51314061) Homepage

        Facepalm. That's just overblown trash-talk. Microsoft collects basic telemetry like system uptime, installed updates, and how many times you have used UWP apps

        So here's the problem with that: it's none of their fucking business unless we opt in.

        I don't give a shit what Microsoft wants. It should be up to me if my computer sends any fucking data to Microsoft or not.

        I am stuck using their OS for some stuff. I should not be forced to send them any fucking data about my fucking usage patterns.

        Microsoft is accelerating the rate at which people are going to aggressively look for alternatives, but they don't seem to give a shit.

        Basic telemetry my ass. Trash talk my ass.

        Go ahead, be a fanboi apologist. But don't downplay that Microsoft has decided they don't need our fucking permission to do things to OUR fucking computers.

        • Well, if you want the best possible privacy, then I can agree that Windows 10 is not the best choice.

          Here's the deal for myself: I'm more willing to put up with some usage pattern datamining than wasting my life with fixing Linux problems. I'm just trying to be practical and weighing the benefits and tradeoffs.

        • by iampiti ( 1059688 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @03:13PM (#51314787)
          +100 Insightful. Telemetry should be opt in. period. In fact we should push politicians to make all data logging illegal unless explicitly allowed and it should also be possible to disable it completely.
          Aggresively looking for alternatives? Well, I've made my mind to stop using Windows when using 7 is no longer viable but sadly most people don't give a shit. That's why then can keep doing these things :(
      • "They don't touch your personal files and they don't know what you do inside apps"

        It's good to know that at least one Slashdot reader still believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.

      • by cfalcon ( 779563 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @06:34PM (#51315653)

        > They don't touch your personal files and they don't know what you do inside apps.

        Ok, so first of all, here's the Windows 10 Eula. It points you to the Microsoft Privacy Statement. []

        And here's the document it's talking about: []

        So, lets go into this a bit. First, do they know what you do inside apps?

        "The data we collect depends on the services and features you use, and includes the following..... ...Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect. "

        Ok, so AS EXAMPLES, they mention how they monitor and track what you do inside apps. THE STOCKS YOU FUCKING TRACK IN A FINANCE APP. That's their goddamned EXAMPLE! Like that's the least offensive thing they could come up with, or something.

        It is unambiguous that they know what you do inside apps.

        Ok, next point, and this one is harder. Do they "touch your personal files"? Lets look:

        Well, if you don't turn off "Input Personalization", then we KNOW it grabs everything you type, write, and say. But lets assume you DO turn that off.

        Under Telemetry, we find this (it's pretty big):

        Usage and connectivity data. Microsoft regularly collects basic information about your Windows device including usage data, app compatibility data, and network and connectivity information. This data is transmitted to Microsoft and stored with one or more unique identifiers that can help us recognize an individual user on an individual device and understand the device's service issues and use patterns. The data we collect includes:

        Configuration data, including the manufacturer of your device, model, number of processors, display size and resolution, date, region and language settings, and other data about the capabilities of the device.
        The software (including drivers and firmware supplied by device manufacturers), installed on the device.
        Performance and reliability data, such as how quickly programs respond to input, how many problems you experience with an app or device, or how quickly information is sent or received over a network connection.
        App use data for apps that run on Windows (including Microsoft and third party apps), such as how frequently and for how long you use apps, which app features you use most often, how often you use Windows Help and Support, which services you use to sign into apps, and how many folders you typically create on your desktop.
        Network and connection data, such as the device's IP address, number of network connections in use, and data about the networks you connect to, such as mobile networks, Bluetooth, and identifiers (BSSID and SSID), connection requirements and speed of Wi-Fi networks you connect to.
        Other hardware devices connected to the device.

        Hrm, that sounds like some personal files would be in there, but it's not quite clear.

        There's this part:

        Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails in, or files in private folders on OneDrive), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:

        - comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies;
        - protect our customers, for example to prev

    • by LVSlushdat ( 854194 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:13AM (#51313569)

      The preceding is my opinion. Don't like it? Tough, deal with it

      Its mine too, I supported/used MS products for 19+ years as a Windows/Linux sysadmin. When I retired in 2010, I decided I'd had enough of Redmond's *stuff* and since I'd been using Linux since 1995 (Slackware, if you must know), I decided ALL of my systems going forward would be running Linux. After seeing Windows 10 (and playing with it quite a bit during preview), I couldn't be happier about my decision to flush MS products. However, since I'm retired and *too* many people in the neighborhood knew I was one of those "IT geeks", I've become the defacto tech support for my church and neighborhood. I've had quite a few people ask me about this new Windows 10 they're hearing about, and I proceed to show them chapter/verse of just how insidious it is. I did testing where I "castrated" a clean install of 10, including local account, and a bunch of stuff turned off in gpedit.msc, then loaded rpcapd on my router and pointed Wireshark at it.. Even "castrated" with all of the obvious spyware crap turned off, the Wireshark packet buffer showed a scary amount of "calling home" still.. Even the folks still on 7/8/8.1 are getting the "telemetry" crap shoved down their throats.. Since my testing, I've had several neighbors come to me with new systems bought over the holidays asking what can they do to minimize the damage. I give them an Ubuntu LiveCD and show them how to boot it, and have them work with it for a week or so and then ask them if they'd like to switch to it permanently. So far, everybody who has tried the LiveCD "preview" has gone for the "upgrade". I normally suggest, on a new-inwarrantee system, that they spend $40 or so for another hard drive to install Linux on, keeping the original in case of warrantee issues. As more and more people find out about Windows 10, I suspect I'd be able to start a small business doing upgrades..

    • *Yawn!*
    • by SirSlud ( 67381 )

      God, I love /. users. They are hilarious.

    • by MacTO ( 1161105 )

      I use Linux, OS X, and Windows. As long as the applications that a user needs/wants are available for a given platform, there isn't a huge difference to the end user.

      As you mention, the differences are quite significant if the user digs a bit deeper. If they attempt to keep up with technology news, or dig around to discover the privacy settings and how updates are managed, it is quite obvious that things are amiss. Yet I highly doubt that many people do that since most people seem to treat technology as

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Iceland didn't put up with MS bullshit. During their financial crisis, a number of companies went bankrupt. The Microsoft license resellers reported back to Microsoft that they had to void the licenses due to bankruptcies. However Microsoft claimed they had sold the licenses to the resellers and that teh resellers should pay Microsoft for the remaining duration of the already signed license contracts. The resellers (usually competitors) spoke with each other and decided to all declare bankruptcy due to fail

    • I'm going to put up with it (while gnashing my teeth and doing whatever I can to mitigate the damage) as long as the software I have to use all day is not available for any other platform.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Windows user here. I'm sticking with it for now. Running Windows 7 and 8.1, testing 10.

      My reasoning is mostly due to compatibility. A lot of embedded/FPGA development stuff is either Windows only or sucks on Linux. Plus, I know Windows inside and out, and it just isn't bad enough to make me want to switch.

      Linux is fine, I used it for a few years on a laptop, but I rarely reboot and switching OS just to use some tools I need seems pointless.

      By the way, I checked out the alleged spying in Windows 10 with Wire

  • Just run your favorite version of Windows inside a virtual machine on a Linux box.

  • By 2020 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @10:46AM (#51313445)

    We're currently at the point where Linux is pretty much at the point where it is no longer necessary to run Windows on a machine. The only real reason to run Windows outside of a VM today is, essentially, games and all the other applications that require certain hardware features. Which are few and far between by now.

    Linux gaming is gaining steam (you may keep the pun), so that problem should be sorted by 2020. Most applications that are unavailable in Windows (mostly specialized applications that have no counterpart in Linux) will work in a VM.

    There is hope that by 2020 saying good bye (or rather, good riddance) to Redmond is quite painless.

    • We're currently at the point where Linux is pretty much at the point where it is no longer necessary to run Windows on a machine.

      I believe the proper way to say it here is: 2016 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!

    • We're currently at the point where Linux is pretty much at the point where it is no longer necessary to run Windows on a machine.

      Oh man I wish we were actually at this point.

    • 20 years old news. Ever heard about the Linux on the desktop year?
    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      We're currently at the point where Linux is pretty much at the point where it is no longer necessary to run Windows on a machine. The only real reason to run Windows outside of a VM today is, essentially, games and all the other applications that require certain hardware features. Which are few and far between by now.

      Well, first of all a Linux + Windows in VM setup is a pretty complicated one to make and you still need a Windows license. And as far as I know, accelerated video is just as big an issue as accelerated 3D. Anything involving DRM and "protected media" or "software activation" will often intentionally fail to work in a VM hosted on an untrusted OS. And having some applications and files on one desktop and the rest on a different one is going to be annoying. Not to mention sharing of CDs/DVDs/BluRays, USB stic

  • In Feb, I'm going to buy a Lenovo T460. Skylake i7, 32GB of RAM and a Samsung 1TB 850 Pro SSD. This is the first year when it is possible to put lots of RAM and disk space in a laptop at a reasonable price. Not cheap, but now mere mortals can do it. I'm going to try Ubuntu as the main OS, then run VMware to host Win 7. I have no problem paying for software, but I expect it to work and work without sending god knows what back to its maker. Unfortunately, I need Sql Server, SolidWorks, Excel and my heart

  • by Ambassador Kosh ( 18352 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @10:58AM (#51313515)

    Skylake chips support some new power management features that allow the chip to throttle based on load far more efficiently than older chips. Microsoft is not adding special support to that to Windows 7 for example. The chip will still work on Windows 7 but not all features will work.

    If you use a Debian install from 5 years ago it also won't support any of those new power management features and they are not going to backport those features. You can install a new kernel and a new version of some of the power management libraries, that will probably involve rebuilding a lot of user space and in the end you are probably going to break something else. What you would have to do is just use a distribution new enough to support all the features on your new processor.

    OSX is going to do EXACTLY the same thing. Apple is not going to backport skylake power management to a 5 year old version of OSX and all the risks that could have. They are going to take the newest version, work out the details on that, validate it and support it.

    Intels and AMDs new processors will continue to work on older Windows and Linux versions just like before. It is just that Microsoft has officially announced they are not going to backport new processor features to older operating system versions.

  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:07AM (#51313547)

    Microsoft really wants everyone off Windows 7 ASAP, apparently. They probably just want to make sure there are no more XP-style holdouts like last time. By saying you can't put anything other than Windows 10 on new hardware you get from manufacturers, that's a pretty big stake in the ground for traditional enterprise desktop customers. Traditional desktops are on an 18-month production cycle, but companies typically stick with the same OS version for as long as possible unless there's a real reason to upgrade. This is going to pretty much force enterprises to move to 10 at the next hardware cycle. So, Windows 7 will probably be done on new hardware pretty soon. I'm not a big fan of making PCs appliances, but I'm an old fart so I might as well get with the times. :-)

    On the other hand, it might be interesting to see what happens to Windows when the need to support all the legacy hardware falls away. Part of OS design for an open platform is a compromise because you can't use every single cool new chipset feature, you have to provide support for IDE hard disks, you need to allow for 10 year old architectures, etc. Phone manufacturers like Apple write the OS directly for the processor and hardware in the devices which might allow them to take advantage of a very specific feature and assume it will always be available on any system the OS runs on.

    I wonder how Microsoft is going to handle VMs.

    • I spent yesterday yelling at my computer. "It's a desktop. Not a tablet, so quit acting like a goddamned tablet." Office 2013 and server 2012 are the things most likely to make me give up completely. I will have no use for 10.

  • It says ensure that there are published BIOS update tools, not that it will be forced via Windows Update.

    But even if BIOSes can be upgraded by Windows Update, they can't force vendors to supply the BIOS. More than likely anyone that does provide a BIOS, will ensure that they do so for hardware that can update safely (e.g. has dual BIOS capability). After all, it won't be MS on the hook, but the vendors.

    Given that CPUs have bugs - see Intel Skylake freezing issue - and fixes are applied via BIOS, ensuring th

  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:45AM (#51313737)

    "Putting BIOS/UEFI updates in to the Windows 10 auto- / forced-update system may open Microsoft to paying $600-$1,000+ to replace broken laptops. If Windows tries to update BIOS/UEFI at a bad/risky time (like during power instability in a big storm), it could lead to an update loop or worse."

    Laptop... power instability in a storm....

    I'd like to add back to the submitter: Laptops are the least likely thing to suffer from power instability in a storm, unless your battery is completely dead and can't ride through a basic power outage, in which case I doubt your laptop is worth $600-1000 anymore.

    • I was talking about desktop broads being hit with power instability in a storm and that if a failed flash nukes a laptop (for non power issues or it hits a need ac power loop) that may lead to a high cost replacement. Or lets say you want to reboot due to software crashes / leaking software and it trys to flash at that time it may F* it up.

      • I would like to genuinely ask when the last time a firmware / BIOS update has actually killed a device? I mean Microsoft should know the exact risk numbers. This is nothing new for them and their entire Surface line already updates the BIOS / Firmware automatically via Windows Update.

        By extension I think all of my PCs for the past 10 years (certainly all my current motherboards, and I'm sure all previous ones) have had BIOS setups that were resistant to partial flashes. Heck my Pentium 4 motherboard, which

  • by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:45AM (#51313741) Journal
    ...and I suspect they know it, this is their ALL-IN-OR-NOTHING last nail in the coffin investment, too bad they didn't smarten up and joined the club instead of trying to go down screaming and burning.

    I'm an 50 something computer user/programmer/admin/whatever that has been using and coding computers since I was 12 years old, the days when I had to make my own video games because I was an early adopter and nothing was available to us. Didn't stop me from getting what I want. And guess what? That's the way of the world, this is how customers work - they want something? You have it? You can sell it! But trying to shove stuff down their throats doesn't really work well in the long run. History repeats itself.

    I've been using Windows alongside Linux since 1998 (before that, it was all about Commodore 64, Amiga / Atari etc. for me). I basically went over to Linux back then in order to rid myself of proprietary stuff and take back the control of my computer - make it do what I WANT to do. Of course, in those days that was simply too much for the Joneses and they would prefer the mainstream instead of messing around under the hood just to get basic stuff up and running - and guess what - we...the Linux users NEVER blamed them for that. In fact, I understand this perfectly, heck...that was partially the Mac's big success - you could just plug it in and no messing around with stupid drivers and whatnot. Normal people just want to use their computers.

    But something happened - Google started to support Android bigtime, and Android is essentially Linux under the hood - and then Hardware support EXPLODED. before we knew it - we saw companies like Ubuntu and many others fight like mad against Windows (or rather, run their own course as a decent competitor regardless of losses and support), because they knew - eventually - they'll catch up. And we did - together!

    I use Mint Linux today - when I discovered this combo (Ubuntu + Cinnamon) I could basically say goodbye to my Windows partition for good. It was just an annoying liability of worms, constant numerous battles with worms, updates, turning of disk trashing...oh sorry...caching / optimizing or whatever they call necessary to optimize that slow running disk trashing system that took forever to boot each time I wanted to run something that demanded Windows only. It was getting further and further away from me, I had hardly touched Windows for ages.
    AND where things get fun...

    I decided that I needed a new computer, so I went and bought the most BLEEDING edge hardware I could get my hands on, in my big ego...(basically only running Linux) I had totally forgotten that there was an operating system called windows (and curiously so had the people at the computer store, they themselves ran Linux mainly at home ...with they where true gamers). I bought a system based on their recommendations, and I was NOT disappointed.

    When I assembled the entire computer at home - latest bleeding specs - latest Mint Linux - it all installed in less than 15 minutes WITH EVERYTHING I NEEDED (try that with windows unless you have a Ghosted Image with the EXACT specs of that computer), and it boots in between 3 and 6 seconds from start to finish! And this is just with a STOCK EVO 850 Samsung SSD HD.
    Try to imagine the speed if they had the PCI SSD In stock....(gonna get that one!).

    And every part of the hardware was supported - straight away - not only that, my setup surpassed EVERY RENDERING TEST done with BLENDER open source 3D software CYCLES (software rendering, not Nvidia GPU) done on tested Windows machines with exactly the same specs as mine.

    Bye Windows, may you rest in peace.
    • You are wrong. To quote George Carlin, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

      You, and most people on Slashdot, are not the market for Windows. (Although, for full disclosure, I am very happy with my Windows 10 box.) However, the average person knows how to do things on their Windows box! It doesn't matter if it is only a small change, they won't learn the new way and they are going to stick with Windows.

      In addition, according to their financial stat

  • by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @11:47AM (#51313751)

    As often as Microsoft screws up regular updates, why in hell would we trust them to update something that can brick our computers when it fails?

    Fuck. That.

  • if Microsoft would simply keep the classic Windows XP shell and UI at least conveniently available as an option. It seems that the vast majority of the complaints about the newer Windows versions involve the UI being forced onto everyone.

  • People are complaining that Microsoft isn’t going to support Windows 7 and 8 on newer processors. This is mostly artificial. New drivers ARE needed, but Microsoft could write those without TOO much trouble and make it part of the update process to install them. It’s unlikely that Windows’ installer would totally be unable to run on these newer systems. That being said, Linux deprecates hardware (new software not compatible with old hardware) and fails to back-port (old software not com

  • by epine ( 68316 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @01:09PM (#51314227)

    I'm of the opinion that Microsoft sees this as their main chance, with the near term arrival of "instant suspend / resume" in the laptop form factor, because otherwise, who the hell cares about the 3% annual performance increment that Intel presently eeks out year over year?

    TrendForce Reports Intel's 3D XPoint to Shake High-End SSD Market in 3Q16 []

    Moreover, their shipments will also complement the release of Kaby Lake, the successor to Skylake processor platform.

    It's sort of well known that Kaby / Cannon with have some interesting new shit.

  • If you think I'm going to put up with an OS as terminally stupid as yours that tries to auto-update BIOS/EFI on the fly, YOU ARE ON FUCKING DRUGS!

    Enjoy the huge lawsuits this evolves into.

    Fucking morons...

    • by Chas ( 5144 )

      Basically this sort of thing is forcing me to choose Linux as my next OS. Because Windows simply cannot and will not be a stable platform.

      Here's hoping pretty much ALL hardware vendors adopt DualBIOS setups. Otherwise Microsoft is going to be killing devices left and right.

  • by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @01:57PM (#51314417) Journal

    ...will be supported on all of them. Just saying'.

  • by nateman1352 ( 971364 ) on Saturday January 16, 2016 @04:37PM (#51315229)

    I thought to myself... how can Microsoft force this? All of their corporate customers have volume licenses with downgrade rights. Intel and AMD can still release drivers for Windows 7 if they wanted to. Then it occurred to me... driver signing.

    Microsoft has seriously shaken up how driver signing works starting with Windows 10. The only way to sign any new driver in a way that Windows 10 will accept is to upload it to Microsoft over the web and have them cross-sign it along with your original signature. It used to be that as long as you had a certificate which came from a root CA that was cross-signed by Microsoft then you could sign it yourself and Windows would accept it as valid.

    Now Windows 10 checks the time stamp on the driver and if the time stamp is earlier than July 29th, 20015 (the date Windows 10 was released) then Windows 10 will accept the old cross-signed root CA. If its after that date then only drivers that are directly signed my Microsoft are accepted as valid by the OS.

    So how does this affect Windows 7? Well believe it or not, Windows 7 will accept certificates with either SHA1 or SHA2 (aka SHA256) for USER MODE signature check (aka .exe and .dll files.) For kernel mode drivers, Windows 7 will only accept SHA1 certificates! So all it takes is for Microsoft to stop providing SHA1 hashes via their driver signing website and then you instantly lock out any new kernel mode binary from being able to load on both Windows 7 and Windows 10. That doesn't prevent someone that still has an old SHA1 code signing certificate from using it to sign Windows 7 only drivers. But most of those certificates are expiring in the next year or two, if they haven't expired already. Intel/AMD/etc could probably release drivers for maybe 1 more silicon generation before their old certificates expire and they lose the ability to release Windows 7 drivers without submitting them to Microsoft for approval.

    Basically Microsoft is using code signing to create planned obsolescence for Windows 7.

Someday your prints will come. -- Kodak